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Christians are you SURE you can eat Pork?
Posted 10/13/09 , edited 10/13/09


I'm not trying to stop anyone from debating, but from past threads topics that deal with religion have caused many flame wars. If you're going to debate, why can't you do it intelligently instead of bashing people? That's all.

Just trying to keep the peace.
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Posted 10/13/09

drizza wrote:

So Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Isaiah are mitzfahs? And what is those three terms I just mentioned? Just a side note as well I got all my information from Christian websites which doesnt attack Christianity in any shape or form.


No, they’re not all mitzvah. A mitzvah is just a law in within the Hebrew code. The bible says don’t plant your seed here, don’t eat pork, and don’t have anal sex. These are all mitzvah because they’re included in a list of rules that exist within the Hebrew legal system. Different books of the bible mention this legal system, but that doesn’t mean that everything within those books is a mitzvah. For example, the book of Exodus lists several mitzvah but it also lists the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are not a part of the legal system, they’re moral rules. We’re morally obliged not to kill. To violate a mitzvah is to break a law. To violate the moral obligation is to sin. So, just because you eat pork doesn’t mean you’re sinning.

Kind of like how the bible says “He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.” It’s not meant to be read as a literally prophesy. Rather, it’s a sort of cautionary tale. Clearly the authors of the bible knew that not every soldier to ever murder somebody was murdered in return. You see what I’m saying? So you have to consider the individual context of various comments in any individual book of the bible.

Although I will say that for Christians the Tanakh is just historical prologue. It’s the teaching of Christ upon which our religion is concentric.

Well, theology is a really touchy topic. Think about in Islam how there’s this massive debate going on about the Houri. Are they literal or metaphorical? There’s great Muslim debate about this. When the Qur’an says, “God flattened out the earth,” did it mean that God literally made the earth flat or did it mean he unfolded it before us like a multi-dimensional carpet?

You can’t just say one side wrong, though from your perspective they may be. Both sides have valid interpretations which must simply be acknowledged as two separate sub belief systems within the religion. Like you said, some Christians believe you shouldn’t eat pork. I can tell you why I disagree but I cannot state my interpretation as fact. Similarly, many Christians legitimately believe that the mitzvah apply even outside the system of laws given to the Hebrews. They think it’s wrong to eat pork, and wrong to put two types of seed in one hole. Personally, I think they’re taking the rules outside of the context.

Ultimately, I think the most honest way to interpret the bible, Qur’an, Talmud, Torah, Tanakh, Hadith, Vedas, or whatever cannon you choose is simply to consider what the author meant. When Jesus said, “I am the door,” we don’t look for a knob. Yet, we take heaven literally because he seems very much to mean it literally.

The problem with the Old Testament, the Tanakh, is that it’s so old that it’s hard to get a historical perspective about what the authors were trying to do. You have to read it and get a feel for it yourself. The same way you might read a book and learn something about the character of its author. For example, if I read “In Defense of Abortion,” I’d assume the writer was pro-choice. You have to do that with the Old Testament too. You have to actually make a judgment at some point.

I think the problem with religion is that people just want to sit back and let it do the thinking for them, but like all philosophy it isn’t a cold median. It’s a hot median that requires interaction with its audience. It’s not like a television show you can just watch and absorb. You have to consider what you’re reading, what you’re hearing.

Christianity is not a religion for people too lazy to think for themselves, and if you’ve ever gotten into Sufi Islam or the scientific significance of the Qur’an then you know Islam is not either.
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Posted 10/13/09

Real_ZERO wrote:

If you were muslim, wouldn't you believe that God had no son?.


That's my point. As a Muslim I would think that Christians believing that Jesus was the son of God and that God let him die.



No, we aren't allowed to eat pork or other prohibited food expect if we were forced by hunger and have no food but pork or prohibited food, then it's ok to eat them (5:3) but under normal circumstances, it is forbidden. However, as you may see some muslims drink alcohols; which is sin, other eat pork.


Thanks for the info.
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Posted 10/13/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Real_ZERO wrote:

If you were muslim, wouldn't you believe that God had no son?.


That's my point. As a Muslim I would think that Christians believing that Jesus was the son of God and that God let him die.



And If God is the one who forgive our sins, Can't He just forgive us and not have Jesus-His son- to be killed?
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Posted 10/13/09


I thought we could not come to Salat drunk. But anyways if it is forbidden and I dont know about it man it is just one of those things I want to continue to play dumb and not know about.
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Posted 10/13/09 , edited 10/13/09


So I am trying to understand he saying he came to fulfill them right? Maybe I am not comprehending right but he fulfilled the right to eat pork? Was it before Jesus came pork was strictly forbidden? Also does the bible say anything good about pork?
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Posted 10/13/09

Real_ZERO wrote:

And If God is the one who forgive our sins, Can't He just forgive us and not have Jesus-His son- to be killed?


Have you ever heard that Bare Naked Ladies song “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”? Well, there’s this line in the song where they say, “No common ground to start from…” and that’s what the song’s about. There’s this couple who stand no chance of making it as a pair because they’re too dissimilar, but they manage to find one thing with which they can relate to one another. They both liked the movie “Breakfast at Tiffany’s,” and “Well, that’s one thing [they’ve] got.”

The concept is really quite similar. No matter how much we anthropomorphize god he’s still this magnificent, omnipotent, eternal entity. The concept of eternity, the concept of omnipotence is incomprehensible, really. It’s like how an electron spins around twice before presenting the same face a second time. We can know that an electron does this, but we don’t comprehend the nature of that. We cannot see, we cannot touch, we cannot feel, we cannot envision, we cannot relate with the electron in any way shape or form.

Now, the electron is a physical item and therefore exists within the limitations of a finite universe. God, on the other hand, is not necessarily physical and everyone agrees he’s eternal, infinite, and endlessly omnipotent. If that is true then the nature of God is even more foreign to the nature of man than the electron because the difference between the infinite and a finite item is infinite whereas the difference between two finite items is simply the number of points in between them.

So that’s where Jesus comes in. Now we have something with which to relate to god. And we cannot say that ours is a god that sits in on his thrown and drinks wine while we suffer, like a corrupt general sending his soldiers to die. No, our general came to the front lines. He came to the front lines in a way we can comprehend to. He shared in an experience with which we can relate, the experience of temptation, physical manifestation, and suffering. He made himself familiar to us. Now we can have a real, legitimate relationship with him. And that’s having a relationship with the theoretical embodiment of goodness. We can now LOVE goodness incarnate.

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Posted 10/13/09 , edited 10/13/09


Yea there is a lot of things muslims should be debating especially in regard to treatment of women in what the Quran says vs whats happening today. But yea I guess I have to take your word for what you say but do these other Christians who speak otherwise have a valid point?
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Posted 10/13/09

drizza wrote:



So I am trying to understand he saying he came to fulfill them right? Maybe I am not comprehending right but he fulfilled the right to eat pork? Was it before Jesus came pork was strictly forbidden? Also does the bible say anything good about pork?


God came to fulfill the reason why we had to keep the regulations. The reason why we can't eat pork or why we have to stay clean by the Temple's standards has been fulfilled. It isn't so much that God went and made pork ok, it is more like "pork is ok because the Law has been fulfilled." These regulations are no longer necessary because the reason why we had to keep them has been fulfilled and thus no longer necessary (I hope this makes more sense). And the Bible doesn't really say anything good about pork, it just says that we can eat it now and is no longer forbidden and unclean.
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Posted 10/13/09

drizza wrote:

Yea there is a lot of things muslims should be debating especially in regard to treatment of women in what the Quran says vs whats happening today. But yea I guess I have to take your word for what you say but do these other Christians who speak otherwise have a valid point?


Well, its religion. They may have a valid point but I don’t see it. I've already explained my educated perspective, but you know I could be wrong.
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Posted 10/14/09

You would be right if there isn't any other verses address the consumption of alcohol in Quran. But you know alcohol was prohibited gradually according to the order in which the verses were revealed. check this Well, there are many things I'm ignorant about, there are also doubtful matters, I do and yeah I just don't want to know (geez Satan defeat me) but well, Allah already knows that I can learn, thus I have no excuse, poor me. Bro Let's do not despair of the mercy of Allah; Allah forgives the faults, to whom repent.



I never heard about this song but I think I can understand How that couple who stand have no chance of making it as a pair, just looking at your answer and the question lol. Maybe I'm too slow to get your point. Well, I don't intend to change the topic nor want to be misunderstood, anyway, thank you.

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Posted 10/14/09

Real_ZERO wrote:


You would be right if there isn't any other verses address the consumption of alcohol in Quran. But you know alcohol was prohibited gradually according to the order in which the verses were revealed. check this Well, there are many things I'm ignorant about, there are also doubtful matters, I do and yeah I just don't want to know (geez Satan defeat me) but well, Allah already knows that I can learn, thus I have no excuse, poor me. Bro Let's do not despair of the mercy of Allah; Allah forgives the faults, to whom repent.



I never heard about this song but I think I can understand How that couple who stand have no chance of making it as a pair, just looking at your answer and the question lol. Maybe I'm too slow to get your point. Well, I don't intend to change the topic nor want to be misunderstood, anyway, thank you.



I am at work right now and I read only a gist of your article it seems interesting and at least it is confirmed that you cannot come to Salat "drunk". I havent read the rest but if this was a Islamic forum this would have been a great topic to debate because a lot of muslims consume alcohol.
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Posted 10/14/09
That is so stupid they think pork is sacred is because people started to die from eating pork. Its called trichinosis,trichinosis, is a parasitic disease caused by eating raw or undercooked pork and wild game infected with the larvae of a species of roundworm Trichinella spiralis, commonly called the trichina worm. And because they didnt know they began to call it sacred and now it is forbidden to eat pork. The abstention from eating pork is one of the steps taken by Islam to practice hygiene and to attain purity of soul. Is just an opinion base on religious ideas and not scientific facts. According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man. Not true, pork is not bad for you unless it is not cleaned properly it makes no since in think thinking it creates lowliness in character and that it destroys moral and spiritual faculties its just a pig and that's it. The Bible only states that the pig is unclean. Here God tells us what we cannot do, and the reason seems to be: “Because I told you so!". Funny but true there is usually no reason, its just cause god says so and another form of his control over mankind. The bible was written by man who based on his own words and opinions in the book which then he label as the law of god.
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Posted 10/14/09

GrandX wrote:

That is so stupid they think pork is sacred is because people started to die from eating pork. Its called trichinosis,trichinosis, is a parasitic disease caused by eating raw or undercooked pork and wild game infected with the larvae of a species of roundworm Trichinella spiralis, commonly called the trichina worm. And because they didnt know they began to call it sacred and now it is forbidden to eat pork. The abstention from eating pork is one of the steps taken by Islam to practice hygiene and to attain purity of soul. Is just an opinion base on religious ideas and not scientific facts. According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man. Not true, pork is not bad for you unless it is not cleaned properly it makes no since in think thinking it creates lowliness in character and that it destroys moral and spiritual faculties its just a pig and that's it. The Bible only states that the pig is unclean. Here God tells us what we cannot do, and the reason seems to be: “Because I told you so!". Funny but true there is usually no reason, its just cause god says so and another form of his control over mankind. The bible was written by man who based on his own words and opinions in the book which then he label as the law of god.


it seems to me that the underlying message is "dont eat pork".... i mean all of you guys have different reasons, but they all reach the same conclusion. So why are we argueing over how 2+2=4? There are an infinite amount of numbers that can add up to 4.

Either way, both sides agree "pork is a harmful diet"-you.

Therefore, based on religious ideals and scientific facts, pork is bad for you, therefore you shouldnt eat it. I just find it amazing that the line between religious opinion and fact can often be very blurry, and one in the same. peace over war
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Posted 10/14/09 , edited 10/14/09

JJT2 wrote:


GrandX wrote:

That is so stupid they think pork is sacred is because people started to die from eating pork. Its called trichinosis,trichinosis, is a parasitic disease caused by eating raw or undercooked pork and wild game infected with the larvae of a species of roundworm Trichinella spiralis, commonly called the trichina worm. And because they didnt know they began to call it sacred and now it is forbidden to eat pork. The abstention from eating pork is one of the steps taken by Islam to practice hygiene and to attain purity of soul. Is just an opinion base on religious ideas and not scientific facts. According to physicians and medical experts, pork is a harmful diet. Consumption of swine-flesh creates lowliness in character and destroys moral and spiritual faculties in a man. Not true, pork is not bad for you unless it is not cleaned properly it makes no since in think thinking it creates lowliness in character and that it destroys moral and spiritual faculties its just a pig and that's it. The Bible only states that the pig is unclean. Here God tells us what we cannot do, and the reason seems to be: “Because I told you so!". Funny but true there is usually no reason, its just cause god says so and another form of his control over mankind. The bible was written by man who based on his own words and opinions in the book which then he label as the law of god.


it seems to me that the underlying message is "dont eat pork".... i mean all of you guys have different reasons, but they all reach the same conclusion. So why are we argueing over how 2+2=4? There are an infinite amount of numbers that can add up to 4.

Either way, both sides agree "pork is a harmful diet"-you.

Therefore, based on religious ideals and scientific facts, pork is bad for you, therefore you shouldnt eat it. I just find it amazing that the line between religious opinion and fact can often be very blurry, and one in the same. peace over war


First of all no one is arguing we are discussing it maybe you misunderstood the question why is it bad to eat pork, glad you capable of adding 2+2. Thats bullshit pork is not fucking bad for the only way it is bad is if it is under cooked or raw, pork it better than most meat products some is. It amazing if you think pork is bad for you you re completely wrong its not a scientific fact; i have no idea where you got that from. Religion says dont eat it therefore they dont eat it, it has nothing to do with an opinion its a fact that the religious text states you should not eat pork and gives no reason as to why not. I on the other-hand love pork lol if i had a religion that forbade it i would eat it anyway.
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