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Violence on the Temple Mount
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Posted 10/27/09

DomFortress wrote:

You would be surprised just how much you can tell about a man's true feeling from his fist. When a fist struck with anger means that he felt wronged, a fist struck with rage means that he felt hatred, a fist struck with sorrow means he felt sadness, a fist struck with courage means he felt righteousness, and when a fist struck with nothingness means he felt enlightenment. But only when you've been on the receiving end of those fists as much as I did for myself, then you'll know what emotions that each of them speak.

Almost any man can hide his true intention behind his words. But when they intend to do so with their fists, then I will know by me knocking them out cold with mine. After all, action speaks louder than word.


And that fist only causing pain and hatred. Not feeling of happiness.
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Posted 10/27/09

Sturmrabe wrote:


2 words:
Hagia Sofia...

Also: which came first, the temple or the mount? The place is build on the fallen structure of the temple... While I don't agree with the methods of the old PLO, I also don't agree with how the conception of that country came to be, but at the same time that one particular spot was Jewish if not "first" certainly well before the advent of Islam.



Well, if remember my history correctly that’s a trick question. The First Temple of Solomon was destroyed and afterwards Herod the Great reconstructed it as the Second Temple of Solomon, vastly improving the original design. One of his improvements was the establishment of a platform upon which to base the temple so…

The methods of the old PLO? I don’t think their methods have changed much. Anyway, I am in class, get back to you later on the rest.
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DomFortress wrote: And judging from their agenda, I don't think the orthodox Jews will have a problem with any of your proposals. They've already shown their willingness to get along with other religious groups with this event, so now the table is turned on the Arab Muslims.


The institute that organized the gathering exists for the sole purpose of reconstructing the Temple of Solomon. That this is their ultimate goal is quite clear; they have made no efforts to hide it in their own documentation. Even the Jerusalem Post reports that their goal is the researching and reestablishment of Solomon’s Temple. That means they want to tear down the Mosque al-Aqsa, and just because they haven’t been able to do it yet doesn’t mean they’re demonstrating their ability to co-exist peaceful. It simply means that an opportunity has not yet presented itself.

It’s like how people say, “Hamas wants peace! They started the cease fire of 006 and maintained it until Israel blockaded them!” Aside from being historically bullshit, it’s silly. Ignoring Hamas’ promise that the times of peace are ‘resting periods,’ for the terrorists the fact is that their very purpose for existing is to eradicate Israel and drive the Jews out of the Greater Middle East. They’ve made this painfully clear. It’s in their charter. That would be like if America’s constitution said, “We are a nation of slavery!” and we still walked around saying “We’re a nation of freedom.”

Let’s take a different example. Imagine a computer company that exists for manufacturing computers. The company needs funding to start production so they aren’t producing the computers. That doesn’t mean that they’re not going to start producing computers just as soon as they have the resources. No, they wouldn’t exist as a computer company if they had no intention of manufacturing computers whenever they achieved the ability to do so.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They exist to terrorize.

This right-wing Jewish organization is a radical religious institute dedicated to a goal that will eradicate any chance for peace in the Middle East. They will, if given the chance, tear down the mosque, build the temple, and ruin any chance for peace. They should be allowed to research and nothing more.
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Posted 10/27/09 , edited 10/27/09

SeraphAlford wrote:


Sturmrabe wrote:


2 words:
Hagia Sofia...

Also: which came first, the temple or the mount? The place is build on the fallen structure of the temple... While I don't agree with the methods of the old PLO, I also don't agree with how the conception of that country came to be, but at the same time that one particular spot was Jewish if not "first" certainly well before the advent of Islam.



Well, if remember my history correctly that’s a trick question. The First Temple of Solomon was destroyed and afterwards Herod the Great reconstructed it as the Second Temple of Solomon, vastly improving the original design. One of his improvements was the establishment of a platform upon which to base the temple so…
Either way, I think that pretty much gives jews the right to tear the damn thing down...



The methods of the old PLO? I don’t think their methods have changed much. Anyway, I am in class, get back to you later on the rest.


While I hesitate to quote a wiki its the first place to have the numbers I am looking for so:

From 2001 when the missile attacks started until 27 April 2008, 13 Israelis were killed by Qassam rockets. Until today, fifteen [9] Israelis have been killed and over 433 injured, along with significant property damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2001%E2%80%932006

15 people... seriously... I remembered watching a flash video about the irony and tragedy of all this, and more people died of fireworks accidents in Israel during this time... HUNDREDS of Palestinians have died in the Israeli response to this?

I'm sorry if people are going to try to label me pro-Palestinian, or biased or whatever, but really to me Israel is making their own bed and they are having to sleep in it.

I don't think they really want peace, and due to their HUGELY over the top responses to everything they never will as ever family they blow the Hel up looking for X or Y is creating more orphans and widowers willing to die to strike back.

I'm not anti-either side in this, I think they are both wrong on many fundamental levels, but the SCALE of slaughter committed by the Israelis for any perceived threat is egregious and self defeating.

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Posted 10/27/09 , edited 10/27/09

Sturmrabe wrote:

[

While I hesitate to quote a wiki its the first place to have the numbers I am looking for so:

From 2001 when the missile attacks started until 27 April 2008, 13 Israelis were killed by Qassam rockets. Until today, fifteen [9] Israelis have been killed and over 433 injured, along with significant property damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2001%E2%80%932006

15 people... seriously... I remembered watching a flash video about the irony and tragedy of all this, and more people died of fireworks accidents in Israel during this time... HUNDREDS of Palestinians have died in the Israeli response to this?

I'm sorry if people are going to try to label me pro-Palestinian, or biased or whatever, but really to me Israel is making their own bed and they are having to sleep in it.

I don't think they really want peace, and due to their HUGELY over the top responses to everything they never will as ever family they blow the Hel up looking for X or Y is creating more orphans and widowers willing to die to strike back.

I'm not anti-either side in this, I think they are both wrong on many fundamental levels, but the SCALE of slaughter committed by the Israelis for any perceived threat is egregious and self defeating.



The only reason that so few Israeli’s have died is because Israel spends billions of dollars to protect them. It’s not for lack of trying on the part of the Palestinians. They’ve sent literally tens of thousands of rockets and mortar shells into Israel since the construction of the wall, and prior to that they death toll of Israelis was significantly higher with hundreds of people being killed or injured on a pretty regular basis.

For Israel the war has never stopped. In its history Israel has not once gone a full week without being hit by a missile or bombed.

I agree that Israel overreacts and that often times they punish all the Palestinians for the actions of a few.

I think an example that clearly demonstrates the nature of the whole issue can be found in recent history. After the illegal abduction of Gilad Shalit by Palestinian terrorists Hamas demanded that Israel release every single female and adolescent Palestinian prisoner, including terrorists like Wafa, and various other known (adult male,) terrorist leaders, Fatah politicians, and Hamas senior militants.

Israel basically laughed at their demands and said that if they didn’t get Gilad back, and this is a quote, ‘the sky will fall.’ Israel then proceeded to blow up bridges to fragment Gaza, increase restrictions on traffic in an out of Gaza, and best of all blow up Gaza’s only power plant causing problems not only with electricity but with the transfer of clean water and filtration of sewage.

Today Israel is agreeing to an only slightly less rigorous demand. Hamas has continuously refused to budge but Israel is already initiating the transfer of prisoners. The deal has changed but not for Israel’s favor. Basically Hamas said, “Okay you won’t release this one leader so how about these twenty followers,” and they’ve negotiated like that. Hamas said they would make changes like this right off the bat but also said right off the bat that any changes will not be for the benefit of Israel and will simple be to smooth out technicalities and other such issues. The only compromise Hamas made was that they provided video and signed proof that Gilad is still alive in exchange for the release of an additional 20 prisoners.

To review the story:
Palestinian supported Hamas makes an illegal but small aggression in a time of relative peace.
Israel goes way overboard and punishes the entire population (illegally) even though the vast majority of their victims had nothing to do with the Hamas aggression.
Hamas is willing to let the Palestinians die in order to win a victory on Israel. (They have described the negotiations as concluding in a victory for them.)
Israel is willing to take a loss to protect its people, Gilad in this case.

And that right there is the nut-shell of conflicts between Israel and the Palestinian forces.
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Posted 10/27/09
Really, thats why I have no sympathy for either group, and only usually end up taking the position I do is to conflict with rampant "Israel can do anything they want cause they are Jewish and wrote the 'Old Testament'" mentality so many people around here have...
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Posted 10/27/09

SeraphAlford wrote:

The institute that organized the gathering exists for the sole purpose of reconstructing the Temple of Solomon. That this is their ultimate goal is quite clear; they have made no efforts to hide it in their own documentation. Even the Jerusalem Post reports that their goal is the researching and reestablishment of Solomon’s Temple. That means they want to tear down the Mosque al-Aqsa, and just because they haven’t been able to do it yet doesn’t mean they’re demonstrating their ability to co-exist peaceful. It simply means that an opportunity has not yet presented itself.

This right-wing Jewish organization is a radical religious institute dedicated to a goal that will eradicate any chance for peace in the Middle East. They will, if given the chance, tear down the mosque, build the temple, and ruin any chance for peace. They should be allowed to research and nothing more.


what matter is, why they have to build the Temple of Solomon without permission from all Jerusalem citizens? If Israel's official wanted to build it as they holy sites with permission to Muslims and Christian, I think they'd considerate it. As Jerusalem is the holiest site for 3 religions from Abraham. If Temple of Solomon can make Jerusalem become grand and more holy, lol. That'd be no problem with Palestinians too. After all, the first religion came there was Jews. It's Jews' rights to have their Temple, the Third Temple.

But, apparently they wanted to build it within Al-Aqsa mosque, their agenda based from 'excavation' plan and construction of bridge located next to Western Wall. That's what Muslims can't agree on. They wanted to build their holiest place by destroying another holy place, moreover from another religion and with hideous intent? That's why suspicion from Palestinians are inevitable. If Israel can be honest and share their Temple of Solomon in Al-Aqsa's area, there would be no much problem as now.


SeraphAlford wrote:

It’s like how people say, “Hamas wants peace! They started the cease fire of 006 and maintained it until Israel blockaded them!” Aside from being historically bullshit, it’s silly. Ignoring Hamas’ promise that the times of peace are ‘resting periods,’ for the terrorists the fact is that their very purpose for existing is to eradicate Israel and drive the Jews out of the Greater Middle East. They’ve made this painfully clear. It’s in their charter. That would be like if America’s constitution said, “We are a nation of slavery!” and we still walked around saying “We’re a nation of freedom.”

Let’s take a different example. Imagine a computer company that exists for manufacturing computers. The company needs funding to start production so they aren’t producing the computers. That doesn’t mean that they’re not going to start producing computers just as soon as they have the resources. No, they wouldn’t exist as a computer company if they had no intention of manufacturing computers whenever they achieved the ability to do so.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They exist to terrorize.


Yes, it's really hypocrite of Israel when they proposed or having agreements to Palestinian authority, they still build settlements during negotiations, even Fatah can't accept this. The peace process, like Oslo, Camp David, Taba, RMP were being processed when Israel building their homes, even ignoring US government request to stop it while the summits being held.

Many Palestinians nowadays believe that Israel is not really interested in reaching an arrangement, but rather interested in continuing to control the entire territory from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River. As proof of their claims, they point to the expansion of the Jewish settlements during the terms of the Israeli left-wing political parties, the argument that it has always been Israel which has conquered territory which belonged to Arab countries, that the IDF entered Palestinian towns during the intifada, as well as quotes of Israeli right-wing leaders and religious leaders who have expressed their support in a Greater Israel and in implementing a population transfer.

Hamas is a resistance organization, they exist to struggle their rights to live in their own land. And being supported by Palestinians people.

Remember the election of 2006 in Palestine, Who won the election? Hamas. They've being recognized by Palestinian people to lead them. Why the opposite side can't accept it? That's democracy, right? If they can't accept the election result, what kind of democracy they wanted to offer to Palestinian people?
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Posted 10/27/09
I'd love to see The Grand Temple of Solomon stand side by side to another religious place as well from Christian and Islam. The potency of harmony between religious people is not impossible. Then, Atheist people will have less reason to condemn religion. It jsut the hideous intention by orthodox and extreme resistance by extremist that make both 'true' believers suffer.

Posted 10/27/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You would be surprised just how much you can tell about a man's true feeling from his fist. When a fist struck with anger means that he felt wronged, a fist struck with rage means that he felt hatred, a fist struck with sorrow means he felt sadness, a fist struck with courage means he felt righteousness, and when a fist struck with nothingness means he felt enlightenment. But only when you've been on the receiving end of those fists as much as I did for myself, then you'll know what emotions that each of them speak.

Almost any man can hide his true intention behind his words. But when they intend to do so with their fists, then I will know by me knocking them out cold with mine. After all, action speaks louder than word.


And that fist only causing pain and hatred. Not feeling of happiness.

While stones and Molotov cocktails can get someone killed, when I have a much higher pain tolerance thanks to my training. And just like the old saying goes that "no pain, no gain", you'll never know true happiness when you didn't fight for it.

Besides, I personally never hated any individual who raised their fists and stuck me, when I was more than gladly to return them the favor. Although those brave individuals come few and far in between, while I don't make the first offense because I'm a counter counter-fighter.

Also, you'll never understand how to stop a fight with the concept of "borrowed strength", while you don't even know how to control a fight with direction and flow. When you denied yourself the chance to fight, because you thought fighting will only cause "pain and hatred".

Even enlightened fighters can strike with nothingness in their fists, when you're simply nothing.


SeraphAlford wrote:


DomFortress wrote: And judging from their agenda, I don't think the orthodox Jews will have a problem with any of your proposals. They've already shown their willingness to get along with other religious groups with this event, so now the table is turned on the Arab Muslims.


The institute that organized the gathering exists for the sole purpose of reconstructing the Temple of Solomon. That this is their ultimate goal is quite clear; they have made no efforts to hide it in their own documentation. Even the Jerusalem Post reports that their goal is the researching and reestablishment of Solomon’s Temple. That means they want to tear down the Mosque al-Aqsa, and just because they haven’t been able to do it yet doesn’t mean they’re demonstrating their ability to co-exist peaceful. It simply means that an opportunity has not yet presented itself.

It’s like how people say, “Hamas wants peace! They started the cease fire of 006 and maintained it until Israel blockaded them!” Aside from being historically bullshit, it’s silly. Ignoring Hamas’ promise that the times of peace are ‘resting periods,’ for the terrorists the fact is that their very purpose for existing is to eradicate Israel and drive the Jews out of the Greater Middle East. They’ve made this painfully clear. It’s in their charter. That would be like if America’s constitution said, “We are a nation of slavery!” and we still walked around saying “We’re a nation of freedom.”

Let’s take a different example. Imagine a computer company that exists for manufacturing computers. The company needs funding to start production so they aren’t producing the computers. That doesn’t mean that they’re not going to start producing computers just as soon as they have the resources. No, they wouldn’t exist as a computer company if they had no intention of manufacturing computers whenever they achieved the ability to do so.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. They exist to terrorize.

This right-wing Jewish organization is a radical religious institute dedicated to a goal that will eradicate any chance for peace in the Middle East. They will, if given the chance, tear down the mosque, build the temple, and ruin any chance for peace. They should be allowed to research and nothing more.

That's fine by me. They can research as much as they want about the truth that's the Temple Mount, but any attempt at physically bringing back the so-called "glory days" from them is a no-no in my book.

I've got two fists while I can fight, but I only use them to empower myself through my trainings. Not punching people at random for shits and giggles. The Temple Institute can therefore be an institution of historical research about the Temple Mount, but not a construction company in the business of excavating old relics.
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Posted 10/27/09

DomFortress wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You would be surprised just how much you can tell about a man's true feeling from his fist. When a fist struck with anger means that he felt wronged, a fist struck with rage means that he felt hatred, a fist struck with sorrow means he felt sadness, a fist struck with courage means he felt righteousness, and when a fist struck with nothingness means he felt enlightenment. But only when you've been on the receiving end of those fists as much as I did for myself, then you'll know what emotions that each of them speak.

Almost any man can hide his true intention behind his words. But when they intend to do so with their fists, then I will know by me knocking them out cold with mine. After all, action speaks louder than word.


And that fist only causing pain and hatred. Not feeling of happiness.

While stones and Molotov cocktails can get someone killed, when I have a much higher pain tolerance thanks to my training. And just like the old saying goes that "no pain, no gain", you'll never know true happiness when you didn't fight for it.

Besides, I personally never hated any individual who raised their fists and stuck me, when I was more than gladly to return them the favor. Although those brave individuals come few and far in between, while I don't make the first offense because I'm a counter counter-fighter.

Also, you'll never understand how to stop a fight with the concept of "borrowed strength", while you don't even know how to control a fight with direction and flow. When you denied yourself the chance to fight, because you thought fighting will only cause "pain and hatred".

Even enlightened fighters can strike with nothingness in their fists, when you're simply nothing.


Cool story as always.

Stones ans Molotov? How about 44. Magnum caliber or 45 ACP shot to your head. Even you won't realized you already died until you arrive 'there'. That's what happening there. Could you tell me how to control a bloody chaos with such depression situation there? It it works, we could send it to Israel's official and Palestine government.




Posted 10/27/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You would be surprised just how much you can tell about a man's true feeling from his fist. When a fist struck with anger means that he felt wronged, a fist struck with rage means that he felt hatred, a fist struck with sorrow means he felt sadness, a fist struck with courage means he felt righteousness, and when a fist struck with nothingness means he felt enlightenment. But only when you've been on the receiving end of those fists as much as I did for myself, then you'll know what emotions that each of them speak.

Almost any man can hide his true intention behind his words. But when they intend to do so with their fists, then I will know by me knocking them out cold with mine. After all, action speaks louder than word.


And that fist only causing pain and hatred. Not feeling of happiness.

While stones and Molotov cocktails can get someone killed, when I have a much higher pain tolerance thanks to my training. And just like the old saying goes that "no pain, no gain", you'll never know true happiness when you didn't fight for it.

Besides, I personally never hated any individual who raised their fists and stuck me, when I was more than gladly to return them the favor. Although those brave individuals come few and far in between, while I don't make the first offense because I'm a counter counter-fighter.

Also, you'll never understand how to stop a fight with the concept of "borrowed strength", while you don't even know how to control a fight with direction and flow. When you denied yourself the chance to fight, because you thought fighting will only cause "pain and hatred".

Even enlightened fighters can strike with nothingness in their fists, when you're simply nothing.


Cool story as always.

Stones ans Molotov? How about 44. Magnum caliber or 45 ACP shot to your head. Even you won't realized you already died until you arrive 'there'. That's what happening there. Could you tell me how to control a bloody chaos with such depression situation there? It it works, we could send it to Israel's official and Palestine government.

How the heck should I know? When I don't even use guns nor religion to cure my depression, because I find good old fashion physical activities did it for me.

Oh.
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Posted 10/28/09 , edited 10/28/09

what matter is, why they have to build the Temple of Solomon without permission from all Jerusalem citizens?


Why should they have to get everybody’s permission to construct the temple? That’s like saying that if the Muslims wanted to establish a Mosque in Mecca they must first petition the Jewish minority and plead for permission. This being said I think that the internationally community should do everything in its power to prevent them from touching the Mosque even if it means sanctioning Israel into oblivion.


If Israel's official wanted to build it as their holy site with permission.


Israel’s officials are the ones who’re protecting the mosque from a private organization in Israel. The Temple Institute isn’t a part of the Israeli government. It’s just an association in Israel that’s affiliated with right wing politics.

That’s why the Jews are upset with their government. That’s why all those rabbis came together to protest the Israeli government and that politician addressed the Israelis promising them that the Israeli police forces weren’t ‘anti-Jewish.’

Under Jordanian rule Jewish holy sites were not maintained and Jews were effectively barred from visiting the Wailing Wall. Now that Israel maintains control the Mosque al-Aqsa and Temple Mount remain under the administration of the Waqf and the Jews are STILL barred from conducting services there even though the site is monumentally more important in Judaism than it is in Christianity or Islam, or both combined for that matter.

The Jews look at this and they look at the Greater Middle East and they see Muslim nations protecting Muslims and Islam. They see all of this and they wonder, “Why is the Jewish state not doing the same thing for the Jews? Why is it actually allowing and advocating state level limitation of Jewish religious rights on OUR holiest site?”


Jerusalem is the holiest site for 3 religions


Christianity doesn’t seem to place much religious value on geographical locations or architectural monuments. It’s mostly a Jewish and Muslim thing, not very many Christians identify with Jerusalem as a centre for spirituality or sanctity.

Also, as we both know Jerusalem is not the holiest site for Islam. It is only the holiest site for Judaism. The Ka’bah is the holiest site in Islam. Jerusalem the city is only historically significant and the Mosque al-Aqsa is the THIRD holiest site in Islam.

For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanakh, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Qur‘an. The Hadith makes what –most- Muslim scholars argue are vague references to Jerusalem. They are stories of Muhammad stopping by for the night and ascending, but the Qur’an explains that these events took place in a dream; moreover, I recently heard an argument between a Sunni and Shiite scholar about rather or not Jerusalem was the actual location. The word used was “distant place,” or “farther mosque.”

King David chose Jerusalem as the capital of Judaism, Muhammad never even went there. The Jews even pray facing Jerusalem while Muslims pray facing the Ka’bah.

Jerusalem is the holiest site in one religion and just significant to the other two.


It's Jews' rights to have their Temple, the Third Temple.


The Palestinians and Muslims in the area beg to differ. They don’t want Jews in Israel at all. Hell, they ‘re flipping out because Jews excavated a historical landmark NEAR the mosque.

Whenever the Muslims had control of the area they promptly began destroying Jewish graves and synagogues. They barred the Jews from conducting their services in Jerusalem and violated religious rights. Now, mind you, I’m sure more moderate Muslims elsewhere in the world would be willing to let them build a replica of their temple at some other place in the city. I bet you that the United Arab Emirates would be receptive to it, and maybe Egypt. Other than that I don’t foresee any Arab/Muslim nation accepting it and think that the Muslims in the area would be pissed if the Jews even tried. If the Muslims in the area were given their way they’d still be desecrating graves and destroying synagogues in their little fit of “manifest destiny.”


After all, the first religion came there was Jews


The Jewish state became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam. For 3,300 years Jerusalem has been the capital of Judaism. You are correct, the Jews were there first.


But, apparently they wanted to build it within Al-Aqsa mosque, their agenda based from 'excavation' plan and construction of bridge located next to Western Wall

You cannot build the Temple anywhere else. You can only build a replica of the temple. They don’t want a replica. They want Solomon’s Temple. The point is that the Mosque they want to destroy should’ve never been built in the first place. It’s sitting on the ruins of their temple to prevent them from rebuilding it.


That's what Muslims can't agree on. They wanted to build their holiest place by destroying another holy place, moreover from another religion and with hideous intent?


The Mosque al-Aqsa actually sits upon the platform constructed as the foundation of the Temple of Solomon by Herod the Great. In other words, the foundation of the Mosque al-Aqsa is basically part of Solomon’s Temple.

Imagine that a great earthquake came and destroyed the Ka’bah in Mecca. Before the Muslims could recover and rebuild the Christians came and built a cathedral upon the ruins. They used the black stone to mount a crucifix and carved into the black stone, “Jesus is God.” Then, after this, they began hurtling stones and Molotov cocktails at all the Muslims who tried to pray or gather there while screaming “This is our holiest site,” for fear that the Muslims wanted to rebuild the Ka’bah and destroy the cathedral.

How would Saudi Arabia react? How would you react? How would Muslims all around the world react? Would they tolerate it? Hell no, but that’s what the Jews are doing-and more. The Jews are actually conceding control of the site and the Muslims are abusing it by discriminating against the very people who could so easily take their holy site back.


That's why suspicion from Palestinians are inevitable. If Israel can be honest and share their Temple of Solomon in Al-Aqsa's area, there would be no much problem as now.


Again, Israel is protecting the Mosque. In fact, the Jew who attempted to burn the Mosque was caught and arrested by Israeli police.


Yes, it's really hypocrite of Israel when they proposed or having agreements to Palestinian authority, they still build settlements during negotiations, even Fatah can't accept this. The peace process, like Oslo, Camp David, Taba, RMP were being processed when Israel building their homes, even ignoring US government request to stop it while the summits being held.



At the turn of the century Israel offered all of the Westbank to the Palestinians and they denied because Israel’s conditions included an extensive peace and acknowledgement of the Jewish state to which they were not willing to commit.

According to the introduction of Norman Finkelstein’s “Beyond Chutzpah,” Israel, late in the year of 2005, ethnically cleaned Gaza of 8,000 Jewish settlers without compensation, withdrew military forces, destroyed military complexes, and began the process of destroying Jewish settlements in Gaza. They also turned a blind eye to cross-border tunnels (like those employed by Hamas militants in the unprovoked abduction of Gilad in early 2006,) and began the process of alleviating border blockades.

In the elections of early 2006 the Gazans responded to this progress by choosing Hamas….


Many Palestinians nowadays believe that Israel is not really interested in reaching an arrangement, but rather interested in continuing to control the entire territory from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River. As proof of their claims, they point to the expansion of the Jewish settlements during the terms of the Israeli left-wing political parties, the argument that it has always been Israel which has conquered territory which belonged to Arab countries, that the IDF entered Palestinian towns during the intifada, as well as quotes of Israeli right-wing leaders and religious leaders who have expressed their support in a Greater Israel and in implementing a population transfer.


Israel has made plenty of concessions to peace. As I’ve said before the problem is that neither side trusts that the other side’s concessions are sincere. After Israel agreed to the last unilateral cease fire with Hamas occupied Gaza both sides were living up to their end of the agreement until they became mutually convinced that the other side was conspiring against them.


Hamas is a resistance organization, they exist to struggle their rights to live in their own land. And being supported by Palestinians people. Remember the election of 2006 in Palestine, Who won the election? Hamas. They've being recognized by Palestinian people to lead them. Why the opposite side can't accept it? That's democracy, right? If they can't accept the election result, what kind of democracy they wanted to offer to Palestinian people?


During the 2006 elections Hamas won a majority seats, just like the Democratic political party here in America won a majority seats in the United States government during our 2008 elections. The difference is that the Democrats didn’t proceed to use their power to drive out the republicans and begin executing conservatives.

Hamas won a democratic victory once, so what. That’s irrelevant. They ceased power in Gaza via a violent coup. The people support them because those who don’t support them get caught up in drive by shootings, get thrown off buildings, or--as in one example caught on tape-- beaten to death on their wedding day while armed gunmen shoot at their guests and chase civilians including women and children with cars.

Nobody was bothered by the election results. Did anybody in the western hemisphere even know what the hell Hamas was in 2006? No, it wasn’t until 2007 when they started their coup and began cleansing Gaza of anybody who might disagree with their terrorist reign. Even then only a few people heard about it. I myself had heard the word maybe twice in passing comments on CNN or Fox before the recent campaign in Gaza.
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Posted 10/28/09

Sturmrabe wrote:


DomFortress wrote:
***

Screw it! Those lying Arab Muslims can kiss my ass while eat my dust. Beside the obvious spelling errors, there's no such thing as the "Organisation for the Defence of Human Rights on the Temple Mount". And just for that, I'm gonna disregard the Al Jazeera sources all together.

***
If those Arab Muslims don't know how to play nice, they should get some timeouts by the Israeli government until they learn their lessons.


Not to go Ad Homonym on you, but you really show your ignorance and racist bias here... there is really no difference at all between the "Big Three Monotheistic Religions" when it comes down to fanaticism and willful ignorance.

You don't see any real RELIGIOUS conflicts that do not involve one or all of them.

The Palestinians have every right to be pissed off as they were living peacefully side-by-side with Jews until American/European jews and their "we wish we were God's chosen people" Christian allies.

The idea you can base the right of a modern nation (Israel) to exist on dusty religious texts, which of course give the practitioners of that religion divine rights to everything, is ludicrous... and even in those religious texts when they got to the "promised land" there were already people living there!!!

They were called Canaanites, and if you read your old testament "god" (via the high priests) commands the Hebrews to commit genocide on them, to the man, woman, and child!

Out side of an asteroid/comet strike, the greatest threat to the continued existence of humanity is religious fanaticism and the ignorance and violence it engenders... All of these people have an Armageddon scenario, and some are not patient enough to let "god" choose the time and hour, but actively work to bring it about.

The next step of evolution of humanity is a social/philosophical one, and until/unless we "grow beyond" this kind of caveman thinking we are all doomed...

Whats my answer? Well unless we, as a race, just learn that my religion is my religion, and if you don't want to be part of it I can respect your choice, the only other alternative is to take the dirtiest, fallout spraying form a atomic bomb, and blast Jerusalem, Mecca, and maybe Rome for good measure, and make these places hostile to human life for about a million years till people wake the Hel up and get over it!


now whose being ignorant and bias?

This entire issue is a social/philosophical one, so your "mental evolution" wont help a thing.Evolution is physical in nature btw.and violence is in our genes or testosterone...or maybe our brains either way it wont go away

And no, these 3rd to 2nd world countries in no way would risks nuking thier holy sites, so they r not a danger to the rest of us.

The only REAL danger lies in the political dogma of the 1st world countries with their "need to make everything right" peace over war
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Posted 10/28/09

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You would be surprised just how much you can tell about a man's true feeling from his fist. When a fist struck with anger means that he felt wronged, a fist struck with rage means that he felt hatred, a fist struck with sorrow means he felt sadness, a fist struck with courage means he felt righteousness, and when a fist struck with nothingness means he felt enlightenment. But only when you've been on the receiving end of those fists as much as I did for myself, then you'll know what emotions that each of them speak.

Almost any man can hide his true intention behind his words. But when they intend to do so with their fists, then I will know by me knocking them out cold with mine. After all, action speaks louder than word.


And that fist only causing pain and hatred. Not feeling of happiness.

While stones and Molotov cocktails can get someone killed, when I have a much higher pain tolerance thanks to my training. And just like the old saying goes that "no pain, no gain", you'll never know true happiness when you didn't fight for it.

Besides, I personally never hated any individual who raised their fists and stuck me, when I was more than gladly to return them the favor. Although those brave individuals come few and far in between, while I don't make the first offense because I'm a counter counter-fighter.

Also, you'll never understand how to stop a fight with the concept of "borrowed strength", while you don't even know how to control a fight with direction and flow. When you denied yourself the chance to fight, because you thought fighting will only cause "pain and hatred".

Even enlightened fighters can strike with nothingness in their fists, when you're simply nothing.


Cool story as always.

Stones ans Molotov? How about 44. Magnum caliber or 45 ACP shot to your head. Even you won't realized you already died until you arrive 'there'. That's what happening there. Could you tell me how to control a bloody chaos with such depression situation there? It it works, we could send it to Israel's official and Palestine government.






if they bring guns, then u bring bigger guns. Like the rocket launchers, needle bombs, M14, tommy gun, and nunchakus. if u kill all of your enemies, their wont be ne one left to fight, then peace will rain. peace over war
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Posted 10/28/09

JJT2 wrote:

if they bring guns, then u bring bigger guns. Like the rocket launchers, needle bombs, M14, tommy gun, and nunchakus. if u kill all of your enemies, their wont be ne one left to fight, then peace will rain. peace over war


Assuming one sides has exterminate all of its enemies, but is it over? It's not.
The problems in Israel-Palestine, each sides are being supported by nations on the world. If one side assassinate the other side, there will be more come to kill the side who've won, if they can exterminate the other side, the supporter from other side will come again and killing each other again and again.

Just to let you know, that land involved for the rest of the world. If you use that method, every single humans will be killed in that land. And it will has impact to the outside of land too. It creates hatred amongst nations that support different sides on the land. The solution is talk, not war. Well, maybe it'll works if they kill the provocateur who only wanted to kill.
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