How much do we help the Industry ?
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Posted 11/19/09 , edited 11/19/09
I'm really glade to help the anime industry, but how much do i?
it would be very interesting to have some transparency about where does the money go.
For instance, since i only watch naruto, does that mean all the money go to TV tokyo ?
How much goes for them? how much for the server? the website ? ect...
How much did he whole community contributed so far?
I bet many people are here by principle, but principle need clarity.
Revolver Dogelot
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Posted 11/21/09
I can't personally answer this question to your satisfaction because I don't know the business logistics and details that run CR. However I can tell you that every show licensed on this site got to be that way because of a financial agreement between CR and the shows producers TV Tokyo being one of the big ones. If TV Tokyo was not profiting in some way as a result of their business relationship with CR they would not be giving them new shows regularly much less allowing them to broadcast signature long running series like Naruto or Gintama. It is even possible TV Tokyo for example owns a stake in CR, honestly if they did it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

I doubt that is the answer you are looking for per say but it is true none the less.
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Posted 11/23/09
Well, transparency is quite a lot to ask for, especially since this is a transaction of sorts - the providers are in no means obligated to show you where the money goes (and we're in no position to question them either, since more likely than not, it's mainly profit generation). But knowing how these things work, I'd most probably guess that the money goes to covering licenses and acquiring new ones. It works like a system in that the more users are willing to pay for a certain series (though channels like CR), the more likely future investments and license acquisitions may occur.

Long story short, your money (along with the money of other patrons) makes future anime licensing ventures possible. That's pretty much it, in a nutshell.
Posted 11/23/09
personally if i ever come across a large sum of money say in the amount of 100,000 or more would that be enough to get some get some older series licensed here like sailor moon or card captor sakura? It's nice to dream sigh
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Posted 11/23/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

personally if i ever come across a large sum of money say in the amount of 100,000 or more would that be enough to get some get some older series licensed here like sailor moon or card captor sakura? It's nice to dream sigh


I actually answered a similar question to this in another thread, but obtaining licenses isn't as simple as paying the TV companies a fat sum of money. A license is actually a "distribution right", meaning whoever obtains it is obligated to distribute it within the given channels that he/she has. For example, I could engage in a licensing venture with TV tokyo to broadcast a show in a certain country - but TV tokyo won't grant me the license unless I can prove to them that I have the capital (i.e. money), infrastructure (i.e. broadcasting, multimedia productions, etc.) and credibility (i.e. previous business ventures, bank statements, etc.). This is because they need to be assured that giving me a license to broadcast their show in my country will be a profitable venture for them. In this light, the target audience in my country is also a factor that isn't within my control as a prospective licensor. Even if I have all the resources to distribute the show, if it seems like there aren't that many viewers who will watch the anime or buy its merchandise, then the license won't push through - it simply won't be profitable.

This whole process of license acquisition is called a bidding, and it's not that dissimilar from other bidding procedures in other business deals in different industries. Suffice it to know that these technicalities are what many people who rant about licensed anime don't know. It's sad, but that's the reality of it.
Posted 11/23/09

edsamac wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

personally if i ever come across a large sum of money say in the amount of 100,000 or more would that be enough to get some get some older series licensed here like sailor moon or card captor sakura? It's nice to dream sigh


I actually answered a similar question to this in another thread, but obtaining licenses isn't as simple as paying the TV companies a fat sum of money. A license is actually a "distribution right", meaning whoever obtains it is obligated to distribute it within the given channels that he/she has. For example, I could engage in a licensing venture with TV tokyo to broadcast a show in a certain country - but TV tokyo won't grant me the license unless I can prove to them that I have the capital (i.e. money), infrastructure (i.e. broadcasting, multimedia productions, etc.) and credibility (i.e. previous business ventures, bank statements, etc.). This is because they need to be assured that giving me a license to broadcast their show in my country will be a profitable venture for them. In this light, the target audience in my country is also a factor that isn't within my control as a prospective licensor. Even if I have all the resources to distribute the show, if it seems like there aren't that many viewers who will watch the anime or buy its merchandise, then the license won't push through - it simply won't be profitable.

This whole process of license acquisition is called a bidding, and it's not that dissimilar from other bidding procedures in other business deals in different industries. Suffice it to know that these technicalities are what many people who rant about licensed anime don't know. It's sad, but that's the reality of it.


Ah thanks for the info the sad thing is in America there is no anime on TV at all any more expect for adult swim which is all reruns and the anime channel which cost over 60 dollars month for dubbed anime. The sad thing there is only one maybe two companies left in amercia that are even picking up anime anymore and the biggest company is Funimation. It is to the point that it's dvd buying only and that's kinda risky for people who want to spend over 20 dollars on a series that they have never seen and that causes low dvd sales, Also i will add anime is just not very profitable in the nor has it been marketed correctly here because most have the mentality it's just (childern's cartoons).
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Posted 11/23/09 , edited 11/23/09
I hate to be honest Cecil but the fans did that to themselves. Too many people have decided to watch fan subs and never pay a dime for anything and it is become so unprofitable to run an anime licensing company these days that yes only the major players are left. The marketing strategy at the least has finally improved with many shows now coming in box sets from the beginning so you can buy two sets and get a whole season. I would also think people are being more selective about what to license because quite a few titles (especially in the early 90's) that made it over were just derivative and overall very average. Fortunately we now also have many sites following a business model like CR that are going to be able to deliver this type of content with a much lower overhead.

The internet is the future of TV afterall...

In the end though it will rely on the fan base to wake up and smell the coffee. If they don't start supporting the industry with actual money it will no longer be made available in the states or many other places for that matter. Eventually the production companies will crack down on fan subbers and they have every right to.

If your curious CR's start up funds ran to the tune of around 4 million since you asked in a round about way.
Posted 11/23/09 , edited 11/23/09

Karkarov wrote:

I hate to be honest Cecil but the fans did that to themselves. Too many people have decided to watch fan subs and never pay a dime for anything and it is become so unprofitable to run an anime licensing company these days that yes only the major players are left.
The marketing strategy at the least has finally improved with many shows now coming in box sets from the beginning so you can buy two sets and get a whole season. I would also think people are being more selective about what to license because quite a few titles (especially in the early 90's) that made it over were just derivative and overall very average. Fortunately we now also have many sites following a business model like CR that are going to be able to deliver this type of content with a much lower overhead.

The internet is the future of TV afterall...

In the end though it will rely on the fan base to wake up and smell the coffee. If they don't start supporting the industry with actual money it will no longer be made available in the states or many other places for that matter. Eventually the production companies will crack down on fan subbers and they have every right to.

If your curious CR's start up funds ran to the tune of around 4 million since you asked in a round about way.


true true i am buying much more anime in this day in time that than I ever did back in early 2000 or the 90's but well i still watch some fan subs just due to the fact that some series will never make it here to America but I try to buy the dvd's for that set series. Also i am one of the few that think since you own a DVD you should have a right to have as many digital copies that you could want since you supported the original set licenses etc, that said series luckily they have technology now that can rip dvds to mp4 format for that set cause. I just wish anime would come back to tv like I was back in the 90's but due to the fact of low ratings it will be impossible.
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Posted 11/25/09

Karkarov wrote:

I hate to be honest Cecil but the fans did that to themselves. Too many people have decided to watch fan subs and never pay a dime for anything and it is become so unprofitable to run an anime licensing company these days that yes only the major players are left. The marketing strategy at the least has finally improved with many shows now coming in box sets from the beginning so you can buy two sets and get a whole season. I would also think people are being more selective about what to license because quite a few titles (especially in the early 90's) that made it over were just derivative and overall very average. Fortunately we now also have many sites following a business model like CR that are going to be able to deliver this type of content with a much lower overhead.


Fansubs, undeniably, do have a negative effect on Anime sales outside Japan, but their main brunt is really on the DVD sales of licensed titles. For one thing, if it weren't due to fansubs, I'd say it's due to poor marketing and horrible post-product branding (i.e. bad cover designs and blood curdling dubbing) that Anime in the west is dying.

Fansubs do, however, cultivate an interest in Anime, itself, which is more than simply videos. The chunk, yes, is the DVD after-market sales, but there's also the merchandise related to the Anime franchises where many people throw their money away in supporting the industry. If it isn't an artbook or two, it's probably a daki-mura or some far-fetched cosplay kit. Either way, fansubbers bring the content to the people much faster than they would have given the legal channels - but again, this doesn't mean that it's something we're condoning. It has its benefits, but it still translates to the eminent death of the Anime industry in the west.

Next step is learning Japanese to get all your anime goodness from Japan, yourself. I've already started... I don't know about you guys.

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Posted 11/25/09

edsamacFansubs, undeniably, do have a negative effect on Anime sales outside Japan, but their main brunt is really on the DVD sales of licensed titles. For one thing, if it weren't due to fansubs, I'd say it's due to poor marketing and horrible post-product branding (i.e. bad cover designs and blood curdling dubbing) that Anime in the west is dying.

Next step is learning Japanese to get all your anime goodness from Japan, yourself. I've already started... I don't know about you guys.


Well Ed I will concur that I have seen some bad cover designs. It really does irk me that many of the companies that seems to have the best grasp of how to put out a good looking DVD are now out of business. I never really minded most dubs (yeah yeah you can try to shoot me if you want) beyond the fact that some directors I suppose insist on having many characters speak in an annoying fashion or re using the same voice actors over and over. Do you have any idea how many anime dubs some of the prominent american Voice actors are in, it is ridiculous. Some of them sadly also do very little to sound uh... different from their other roles? Perhaps they lack the range or maybe the people in charge just don't want to mix it up.

What really pisses me off though is when they do big name movies and use hollywood actors for it. Jesus people I don't need to hear Billy Bob Thorton every time I watch a Miyazaki movie.

All of this really though is just more reasons why sites like CR are going to become bigger and more prevalent as time goes by. Streaming content online can actually keep pace with the "fansubber" and negates the entire "bad dub" argument.
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Posted 11/25/09 , edited 11/25/09

Karkarov wrote:

All of this really though is just more reasons why sites like CR are going to become bigger and more prevalent as time goes by. Streaming content online can actually keep pace with the "fansubber" and negates the entire "bad dub" argument.


Online streaming is the innovation, actually. I believe the future of anime, if there be a future for it, and in the west, at least, would be simulcasting. Dubbing becomes an invalid argument when you realize how ancillary the thing is in the whole formula of anime creation. Unless you want to go as far as Buena Vista in creating a sound line up of voice actors (yes, I like the Ghibli dubs... they're güd), or if you have a hard time multi-tasking (i.e. reading and watching at the same time), then by all means.

However, another interesting thing that fansubbers do that dubbing sadly cannot reproduce are the cultural injections - in this case, the translator notes that explain certain references or terms used in the dialogue. As Japanese comedy or literary devices rely heavily on their pun-laden language, Americanized dubs dilute the original Japanese flavor and tend to transform the show into one with an American context. To me, that's simply absurd... but yes, that's the reality of translation - you lose things in the process. To me, it's an even greater loss when the cultural connections that the show has with its country of origin (namely Japan) are lost, altogether.

Examples? Lucky star... azumanga daioh... these examples are popular slice-of-life shows that rely HEAVILY on its relationship with Japanese culture and language. The dubs were questionable (not horrific), but a lot of things were lost to the point that it almost felt like watching a different "thing" altogether. And this is where I detest dubs, if the "dub" argument be resurrected to any extent.


But just so that someone doesn't accuse me of supporting fansubbers, be it clear that I watch "directly" from the source via satellite TV. Knowing Japanese has its perks, and I guess if you're as serious as I am with my anime (which sounds sad), then you'd want to watch the shows you watch in its purest sense. For this reason, I prefer subtitles over dubs - which is why simulcasts with official subs are key to regenerating interest in this dying sector of entertainment. Forget dubs, honestly. Invest in good translators and an enthusiastic cast who are more than willing to explain a thing or two about what's going on in the show... heck, it's going on a limb, but they could learn a thing or two from the way fan subbers do their subs.
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