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Satan is Really Set
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digs 
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Posted 11/28/09 , edited 11/28/09
I have studied the concept of Satan in theological classes at school. In the Old Testament Ha-Satan was the Hebrew word used for him, this meant the adversary or accuser. There are a few prophecies about the satanic angel (satan) in the Old Testament and Jesus talks about him more extensively in the New Testament. It is clear that Satan is evil, he is a tempter, possessor, and wicked being bound to the destruction of humanity. The book of Revelation talks of his demise and imprisonment in the abyss for a thousand years before being cast into hell for eternity. Here are a few verses on that.
Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. Rev 20:3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

In my opinion satan is an evil spirit, the father of lies as it says here Jhn 8:43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. Jhn 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Satan is opposed to God and I believe that he is trying to prevent as many people as he can from being saved from sin and going to heaven, I also think that he oppresses Christians to try and prevent the word of God from spreading. His goal is out of hatred for God and humanity to attempt to keep people in sin, to keep them bound to hell, to prevent people from being saved and forgiven of sins, and to discourage and attack those who have been forgiven.
Posted 11/28/09
Satan is indeed the one opposed to god according to the version you have stated. I personally feel and know that Satan is merely derived from that of the old gods. Therefore, he is neither good nor evil simply because he doesn't really exist. Set came long before that of likely all other gods of darkness and the underworld and is not a being of pure malevolence. He is a grand teacher and entirely justified in his actions. Satan is truly (if he could exist at all) an imposter whom only wants to spread chaos because of his deep suffering. It will always be viewed by most that Satan is a purely evil fallen angel. In this, I agree a great deal.

My point is that people have stolen from the old ways to contrive the new, making the new ways quite unstable at best. I can only give negative remarks about Scientology, for one. Trends do not a true path make. There will be endless ideas throughout time of what governs our world beyond us and all of them will certainly be fascinating no matter whether or not they are true. A good example to follow is the moral of all stories that have morals.
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Posted 11/28/09
I think though that there is only one absolute truth, all ways but the truth are unstable. For me Satan has existed before Set as Satan was the serpent in the Garden of Eden and the fallen angel even before that. I do agree that new religions steal from old concepts and ideas, some new religions are modifications of ancient faiths as well. Although again I believe that truth is absolute and unchanging.
Posted 11/28/09 , edited 11/28/09

digs wrote:

I think though that there is only one absolute truth, all ways but the truth are unstable. For me Satan has existed before Set as Satan was the serpent in the Garden of Eden and the fallen angel even before that. I do agree that new religions steal from old concepts and ideas, some new religions are modifications of ancient faiths as well. Although again I believe that truth is absolute and unchanging.


For you, that is terrific to have come to a conclusion. However, the idea of Satan coming before Set makes me laugh. It was one of the greatest gifts to all mankind when we discovered the Rosetta Stone, which translated Egyptian hieroglyphics into Latin, so we could then come to the conclusion that Satan was derived from Set-hen. Ha-Satan I perceive as being just a secondary way to speak Satan's name in Hebrew from the first. One would think the Jews wanted to cover their own tracks, which is logical if I decided to create a new character for my religion from some other. I could take from God and just call a new all-powerful being Dog and then worship that dog-headed entity that would kind of resemble Set in appearance, Set having had a dog's head and even at times, a snake's body.
Posted 11/28/09 , edited 11/28/09
By considering the historical process of how the Egyptian Set got redefined as Satan, I just realize that the Biblical definition of Satan can be the first religious record of a widespread straw-man proposal.
Posted 11/28/09 , edited 11/28/09

DomFortress wrote:

By considering the historical process of how the Egyptian Set got redefined as Satan, I just realize that the Biblical definition of Satan can be the first religious record of a widespread straw-man proposal.


I think you're on to something!
Posted 11/28/09

Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

By considering the historical process of how the Egyptian Set got redefined as Satan, I just realize that the Biblical definition of Satan can be the first religious record of a widespread straw-man proposal.


I think you're on to something!

Be careful what you wish for these days, but keep that thought on the back-burner.
Posted 11/28/09

DomFortress wrote:


Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

By considering the historical process of how the Egyptian Set got redefined as Satan, I just realize that the Biblical definition of Satan can be the first religious record of a widespread straw-man proposal.


I think you're on to something!

Be careful what you wish for these days, but keep that thought on the back-burner.


Yeah. It is a bit far-fetched to think of the straw-man concept and how it had much of anything to do with others taking from a religion to make their own. Straw-man seems to be more oriented to finances than religion, though there are a lot of financial matters in religion.
Posted 11/28/09

Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

By considering the historical process of how the Egyptian Set got redefined as Satan, I just realize that the Biblical definition of Satan can be the first religious record of a widespread straw-man proposal.


I think you're on to something!

Be careful what you wish for these days, but keep that thought on the back-burner.


Yeah. It is a bit far-fetched to think of the straw-man concept and how it had much of anything to do with others taking from a religion to make their own. Straw-man seems to be more oriented to finances than religion, though there are a lot of financial matters in religion.

It has more to do with establishing an universal respond using existing symbolism, that's the objective view of the straw-man proposal within a religious situation.
Posted 11/28/09

DomFortress wrote:


Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

By considering the historical process of how the Egyptian Set got redefined as Satan, I just realize that the Biblical definition of Satan can be the first religious record of a widespread straw-man proposal.


I think you're on to something!

Be careful what you wish for these days, but keep that thought on the back-burner.


Yeah. It is a bit far-fetched to think of the straw-man concept and how it had much of anything to do with others taking from a religion to make their own. Straw-man seems to be more oriented to finances than religion, though there are a lot of financial matters in religion.

It has more to do with establishing an universal respond using existing symbolism, that's the objective view of the straw-man proposal within a religious situation.


Indeed. Your idea of straw-man being related to the subject of religion almost blew a fuse in my head, then I laughed out of amazement. Making something universal has its benefits, but the issue of taking from something to make an idea shows a complete and obvious lack of originality. I wonder if the ancients had any concept entirely similar to straw-man and what they might have called it. A forum topic on straw-man would certainly be interesting as I am certain few people know of it, including those who apply it and yet don't know that they do.
Posted 11/28/09

Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Dajjal_AD wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

By considering the historical process of how the Egyptian Set got redefined as Satan, I just realize that the Biblical definition of Satan can be the first religious record of a widespread straw-man proposal.


I think you're on to something!

Be careful what you wish for these days, but keep that thought on the back-burner.


Yeah. It is a bit far-fetched to think of the straw-man concept and how it had much of anything to do with others taking from a religion to make their own. Straw-man seems to be more oriented to finances than religion, though there are a lot of financial matters in religion.

It has more to do with establishing an universal respond using existing symbolism, that's the objective view of the straw-man proposal within a religious situation.


Indeed. Your idea of straw-man being related to the subject of religion almost blew a fuse in my head, then I laughed out of amazement. Making something universal has its benefits, but the issue of taking from something to make an idea shows a complete and obvious lack of originality. I wonder if the ancients had any concept entirely similar to straw-man and what they might have called it. A forum topic on straw-man would certainly be interesting as I am certain few people know of it, including those who apply it and yet don't know that they do.

An universal appearance can create the situation of normality, thus making the universal appearance not just believable, but acceptable as well as pushing to agreeable by the masses. And symbolism is just attaching a symbol to that universal appearance for easier access by the public. As a matter of fact, the Chinese calligraphy is a written language not based on phonics in its spelling, but rather it uses symbols in its combination.

Therefore while just about anyone can use symbolism to relay messages. the only thing that's truly universal on mankind are the various original thoughts and feelings responding to those messages by themselves. We called messages that generate negative responds the straw-man proposals for their knee-jerking reactions. While positive responds are generated by what we called "hypes" for their gratifying reactions. Therefore, it's all up to the individuals who's relaying the messages to tell the truth based on their own life experiences about the world that we're in. For just one lie, humanity can set themselves back by one illusion at a time.
Posted 11/28/09


Humanity sure has set itself back because of illusions. The number of them is staggering. Illusions are almost always more pleasant than reality since they can be made into something more pleasant. Anime for one will always be an illusion but shouldn't be condemned for being one just because some people become so obsessed with it that their personal lives become damaged. Chinese calligraphy, I found in some way (at least from the movie Hero) to be an art form where the stokes are the same as swings of a sword. Each symbol has a word meaning and incredible depth to go with them. They even look as they are supposed to mean. The character for rain is a most beautiful symbol.
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Posted 11/29/09

DomFortress wrote:






Dajjal_AD wrote:





Wow!!! these threads just reminded me of a book by Arthur C. Clarke called Childhood's End.

I hate giving away endings or plot twists!!!!! so I'm reluctant to say why this reminds me of the book.......... I highly recommend reading it, but if you don't want to, I guess I'd be willing to respond to PM requests.




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Posted 11/29/09
Yeah, this kind of stuff is really interesting. It seems as Christianity spread across the world, anything that wasn't Christian was transferred into the "evil" part of it (Satan, Hell, etc). Another example is the Greek word "eudaimonia". Most linguists and historians translate it as "happy", which is accurate enough, but literally it means "good demon" ("eu daimonia"). It's equivalent to someone saying something like, "I must have a guardian angel on my side! Things are going so well!". It has also been translated as meaning "lucky". Anyway, my point is, as Christianity washed over Europe, the Christians saw these non-Christian things, like "demons" as bad. That's why nowadays when we think of evil spirits we use the word demon. Christian influence. But in ancient Greece a demon was just their word for spirit, malevolent or not.
Posted 11/29/09

Lionna wrote:

Yeah, this kind of stuff is really interesting. It seems as Christianity spread across the world, anything that wasn't Christian was transferred into the "evil" part of it (Satan, Hell, etc). Another example is the Greek word "eudaimonia". Most linguists and historians translate it as "happy", which is accurate enough, but literally it means "good demon" ("eu daimonia"). It's equivalent to someone saying something like, "I must have a guardian angel on my side! Things are going so well!". It has also been translated as meaning "lucky". Anyway, my point is, as Christianity washed over Europe, the Christians saw these non-Christian things, like "demons" as bad. That's why nowadays when we think of evil spirits we use the word demon. Christian influence. But in ancient Greece a demon was just their word for spirit, malevolent or not.


That is another very good point. The word demon does not necessarily mean an evil entity. Demon were quite often believed to be beneficial spirits traditionally. There are evil demons, but the good ones are what I prefer.
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