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Men as an afterthought?
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31 / M / U.S. illinois
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Posted 1/1/08
Men have nipples to because a man and a woman have all the same parts believe it or not. In early stages of development a male and female body are the same in the uterus. It s only when the male OR female genes or chromosomes or whatever become dominate that you become male of female.

example: in a woman the part becomes ovaries, in the man that same part becomes the testicles. Men also have the glands to produce milk just like women in case you wanted to know haha.
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Posted 1/1/08
Shit, I read an article about gender in fetal development a while ago and now I've totally forgotten what it was saying, but this is what I can glean from google. Keep in mind that this is all me talking out my ass.

I don't think men and women came from some sort of androgynous organism--you have to back up way further than that. Organisms that sexually reproduce have been around a lot longer than humans; we evolved from retarded monkeys that already had similar sex organs that functioned in the same way. What's more important, I guess, is how this way of reproduction evolved, because obviously having males and females isn't how all sexually reproducing organisms go about reproducing. I'm pretty sure most plants reproduce sexually, but they have male and female sex organs on each plant, not one male plant and one female plant. So I guess that's where the male-female divide started; when somehow organisms evolved so that there were separate male and female organisms. As for which gender came first, or if one came first, I've got no idea.
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24 / M / Amurka
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Posted 1/1/08

FateT wrote:

I kinda always wondered if men were just an afterthought on the path of evolution. For instance, females seem to be techincally the ones that are self sufficient, they can reproduce, feed their young, and even fend for themselves since they have a similar body type t men. Also to note, that men were born with these useless nipples. They dont really do anything, nothing comes out of it, why is it there? I would much likely believe that man was first if for example something manly came out of our nipples, like Beer or Gatorade or even ammo( lets really hope not) . Another point to consider in this question is the clitoris, which is analogus to the penis, which came first? If i look at it from this view, it seems that women came first since the penis does nothing but is a DNA deilvery system, futher boosting the fact that women actually "really" come first.

Anyone else here thinks that women were the ones that really came first? Or do u believe in parallel evolution, such that we both man and woman evolved to what we are today at the same time?

the reason why men have nipples is because they have both and x and a y chromosome. all humans start out as females. so in fact I'd say males evolved from females.

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31 / M / U.S. illinois
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Posted 1/1/08

projectcedric wrote:


FateT wrote:

I glad to see some intelligent discussions here!
So after reading your responses do you mean that both man and woman came from some sort of an androgenous form that had both (probally undeveloped) womans and mans parts? Since, if that is true, that would explain quite a lot of my questions. Such as the nipples and the penis.


Yea. If the mammalian ancestors were indeed bisexual (not androgenous; androgenous means "not clear"), then there wasn't a need for either male or female genitalia. However, specialization is important as well as sexual reproduction so that there will be a transfer of genes and no homogeneity. This is critical as a defense mechanism against diseases and therefore, for long term survival. That is why crossbreeding is important.

Just an added fact: there are theories that say that the human nipples were just remnants of an earlier form. As mammals, we had, like cows still do, 8 mammalian nodes, but only 2 remain.


Do you mean if they reproduced asexually? If thats the case then you are talking about a mono sex species that has only one sex?
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30 / M
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Posted 1/1/08

supermanw3 wrote:


projectcedric wrote:


FateT wrote:

I glad to see some intelligent discussions here!
So after reading your responses do you mean that both man and woman came from some sort of an androgenous form that had both (probally undeveloped) womans and mans parts? Since, if that is true, that would explain quite a lot of my questions. Such as the nipples and the penis.


Yea. If the mammalian ancestors were indeed bisexual (not androgenous; androgenous means "not clear"), then there wasn't a need for either male or female genitalia. However, specialization is important as well as sexual reproduction so that there will be a transfer of genes and no homogeneity. This is critical as a defense mechanism against diseases and therefore, for long term survival. That is why crossbreeding is important.

Just an added fact: there are theories that say that the human nipples were just remnants of an earlier form. As mammals, we had, like cows still do, 8 mammalian nodes, but only 2 remain.


Do you mean if they reproduced asexually? If thats the case then you are talking about a mono sex species that has only one sex?


Yea, but not precisely mono-sex. Rather, hemaphrodites. There is a person above who explains this quite well:


moronpants wrote:

I'm pretty sure most plants reproduce sexually, but they have male and female sex organs on each plant, not one male plant and one female plant. So I guess that's where the male-female divide started; when somehow organisms evolved so that there were separate male and female organisms. As for which gender came first, or if one came first, I've got no idea.


The only thing is, probably, there wasn't a distinct line in time when the hemaphrodite ancestors suddenly became either male or female. Probably, some of them gradually became more male than female, and some the other way around, during the process of specialization. Until finally, in an individual, one of gender completely took over and things like penis or milk ducts evolved.
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24 / F
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Posted 1/1/08
useless nipples haha..
well, because the baby's gender is not known until around 5 months and his/her's upper body is already developed. That is why the men have these "useless nipples". You can't call men afterthought, I mean, can you imagine men without nipples?
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34 / M / Pinsnotch2
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Posted 1/1/08

FateT wrote:

I kinda always wondered if men were just an afterthought on the path of evolution. For instance, females seem to be techincally the ones that are self sufficient, they can reproduce, feed their young, and even fend for themselves since they have a similar body type t men. Also to note, that men were born with these useless nipples. They dont really do anything, nothing comes out of it, why is it there? I would much likely believe that man was first if for example something manly came out of our nipples, like Beer or Gatorade or even ammo( lets really hope not) . Another point to consider in this question is the clitoris, which is analogus to the penis, which came first? If i look at it from this view, it seems that women came first since the penis does nothing but is a DNA deilvery system, futher boosting the fact that women actually "really" come first.

Anyone else here thinks that women were the ones that really came first? Or do u believe in parallel evolution, such that we both man and woman evolved to what we are today at the same time?


change the gender on your profile you're no longer worthy!
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27 / M / Sweating it here...
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Posted 1/1/08

ailin350 wrote:

useless nipples haha..
well, because the baby's gender is not known until around 5 months and his/her's upper body is already developed. That is why the men have these "useless nipples". You can't call men afterthought, I mean, can you imagine men without nipples?


well there would be a lot less cases of purplenurples(sp?) in highschool.
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Posted 1/1/08
http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5276,00.html

BTW I found an article that's kinda (???) similar to what I read before about gender in fetal development. I have no idea if it's really accurate or not; to be honest, I'm totally out of my league here. That's what you get for being a classics geek.

During the first few weeks of pregnancy, your baby's internal and external genital structures are the same, regardless of whether you are ultimately going to have a boy or a girl. The gonads will become ovaries or testicles, the phallus will become a clitoris or a penis, and the genital folds will become labia or scrotum.
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30 / M
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Posted 1/1/08

moronpants wrote:


During the first few weeks of pregnancy, your baby's internal and external genital structures are the same, regardless of whether you are ultimately going to have a boy or a girl. The gonads will become ovaries or testicles, the phallus will become a clitoris or a penis, and the genital folds will become labia or scrotum.


Evolution's own ironic joke.

Evolution: "This is what I did to you people in a millions-of-years scale before. Remember me."
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26 / M / U.S.A
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Posted 1/1/08
what is she talking about did i miss a class or can women reproduce asexually
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24 / F
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Posted 1/1/08

FateT wrote:


ailin350 wrote:

useless nipples haha..
well, because the baby's gender is not known until around 5 months and his/her's upper body is already developed. That is why the men have these "useless nipples". You can't call men afterthought, I mean, can you imagine men without nipples?


well there would be a lot less cases of purplenurples(sp?) in highschool.


what are purple nipples/?
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25 / M
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Posted 1/1/08
hmm, you bring out a good point there. Well thats just another thing to find an answer to if any. i'll post again if i find anything else. Though it would be interesting what answers people come up with, wonder what the true answer is.

This should be an interesting topic to research. Thanks for the topic.
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27 / M / Sweating it here...
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Posted 1/1/08

ailin350 wrote:


FateT wrote:


ailin350 wrote:

useless nipples haha..
well, because the baby's gender is not known until around 5 months and his/her's upper body is already developed. That is why the men have these "useless nipples". You can't call men afterthought, I mean, can you imagine men without nipples?


well there would be a lot less cases of purplenurples(sp?) in highschool.


what are purple nipples/?


I believe that is when someone grab both your nipples and twists them so they become purple... I had never happened to me but i saw it in highschool. It seemed VERY painful.
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24 / F
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Posted 1/1/08
^ Why would anyone go grab your nipples and twist them?... Sorry, i've never seen that..
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