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Disappointment in Copenhagen
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Posted 12/22/09
Hey all,

Climate change has been a persistent and prevalent topic in the last 10 or 20 years. Fossil fuels in the atmosphere are creating an increase of the naturally-occurring greenhouse effect, making the Earth's temperature rise. Scientists predict that if carbon emissions are not stopped completely by 2050, a number of severe and negative things will occur, such as rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns, to name a couple. If you're at all interested in the data behind these predictions, have a look at the World Watch Institute's website. I'm sure you can find it through a simple Google search.

World leaders met recently in Copenhagen to discuss what to do after the Kyoto protocol runs out in 2012. People around the globe had high hopes for this meeting (search "350", and you'll get mountains of articles about demonstrations people have done). At best, leaders would have come out of these talks with new information and suggestions on how to preserve the integrity of the ecosystem without compromising the economy in any big way.

What came out of it, you ask?

A whole lot of nothing.

I have personally found this grossly disappointing, as I'm sure many globally conscious people have as well. China was unwilling to take any large steps, saying they will not undermine their still-developing economy for the sake of the environment. The United States was unwilling to take significant leadership as well, solely on the grounds that they don't want China to get ahead of them, economically, on the global market.
In Canada, Stephen Harper, well...he's the idiot who discontinued Canada's participation in the Kyoto protocol. I'm allowed to say that because I am Canadian, and I've disliked him from the beginning.

Money. It seems that's all people care about these days. You know, there are islands in the Indian Ocean that will be SWALLOWED UP BY THE OCEAN if the sea level keeps rising! Their leader went to Copenhagen with a plea for action. He was there for his country's survival! But the big, developed nations, such as China, America, and Japan, turned a blind eye on the grounds of economic competition.

Okay, WHAT is WRONG with that picture??

The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity. I am vastly disconcerted and disgusted by the decisions of our leaders. Leaders are those we put our trust in, those who represent us as a people. I personally feel as though they have failed us.

Yes, the issue is certainly more complicated than "They chose money over life". I realize this. But when it comes down to it, REALLY comes down to it...who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?
You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era (the last 50 000 years that has had a stable climate and made agriculture, and ultimately civilization as we know it, possible). But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES.


Sigh. I guess that's all I have to say for now. I can't help feeling a little despairing. Pogo said it best when he realized, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Share your opinions.
Posted 12/22/09
hmm I will be 65 by that time not really sure if that is going to matter or not but yeah it does suck
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digs 
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Posted 12/22/09
I'm glad nothing came from the meeting because Global Warming is not a problem. I have done two papers debunking global warming in college, and I can honestly say the theory of anthropogenic global warming (man caused) is not an issue and is entirely false. It was created so governments can expand their power, so certain individuals can become billionaires and to scare the world into a more globalized state. I hope we never have another silly climate summit, and any laws/restrictions on CO2 emissions will only act to hurt economies. I hope the world realizes that global warming is a lie, they really need to stop pushing such a dogmatic ideology and ruining our lives in the process. Just look at the emails from East Anglia University, global warming is a fabricated myth and should not be taken seriously by any world government.

As a side note, did you know all the CO2 emitted by the delegates from their jets was more then what the whole nation of Morocco emits in a year? If it's such an issue why aren't the world leaders flying economy or jet-pooling?
Posted 12/22/09
I'm also disappointed as well, and my disappointment is solely focused on my future expectation of my own family. When I can't hand them over a better living habitat, simply because our world leaders cared more about a pretty looking credit balance than the long road ahead.

I for one want to proclaim that I don't want to be rich and famous while I can't live with myself not being happy. When I value my happiness lies in the my family's future more so than the national debt. Furthermore, I want to say that personally, we're not making enough changes to avoid that inevitable future. When we're too self-centered at saving our sorry asses with our failed cheques and balances, while we're not working hard enough to build a better future humanity.
Posted 12/22/09
In the end we all are to blame for our own demise.
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Posted 12/22/09

digs wrote:

I'm glad nothing came from the meeting because Global Warming is not a problem. I have done two papers debunking global warming in college, and I can honestly say the theory of anthropogenic global warming (man caused) is not an issue and is entirely false. It was created so governments can expand their power, so certain individuals can become billionaires and to scare the world into a more globalized state. I hope we never have another silly climate summit, and any laws/restrictions on CO2 emissions will only act to hurt economies. I hope the world realizes that global warming is a lie, they really need to stop pushing such a dogmatic ideology and ruining our lives in the process. Just look at the emails from East Anglia University, global warming is a fabricated myth and should not be taken seriously by any world government.

As a side note, did you know all the CO2 emitted by the delegates from their jets was more then what the whole nation of Morocco emits in a year? If it's such an issue why aren't the world leaders flying economy or jet-pooling?


While I respect your opinion, I strongly urge you to have a look at the data supporting the claims of climate change. The Arctic sea ice is melting. It just...is. I SEE IT. I LIVE up here. There are also graphs/measurements that show a direct corrolation between increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere and rising temperatures. I also suggest taking me up on my offer to seek out the World Watch Institute website. They have a lot of great information, and more importantly, it's FACTUAL. No claims are made without peer-reviewed, scientific evidence.
Posted 12/23/09
I'd actually prefer to see if instead of whining about the CO2 increase people would rather focus on how to stop the pollution, and the unnecessary exploitation of the flora and fauna. Other than that, I actually didn't expect anything promising to come out of this conference.

In this instance, I'm more worried about pollution. The kind of pollution that is causing the death of many animals, plants, humans, and also the cause behind the increasing occurrence of allergies altogether.

And Digs, Global warming is occurring. Throughout history climate changes have been always occurring one way or the other. Saying that it doesn't occur is like saying that people don't grow old, and herewith, I'm distancing myself from the Global warming denial movement, because I agree climate changes have been occurring at an increasing rate but one thing is for sure, and there I agree with you, Global warming, and this whole environmental movement have become prey for political exploitation, and is also the source of a lot of idiotic ideas such as how to find a way to decrease the CO2 emissions in cows(what the fuck?). I've made a thread about a similar topic - What is endangered: Climate or freedom?

Posted 12/23/09 , edited 12/23/09

ShroomInferno wrote:

I'd actually prefer to see if instead of whining about the CO2 increase people would rather focus on how to stop the pollution, and the unnecessary exploitation of the flora and fauna. Other than that, I actually didn't expect anything promising to come out of this conference.

In this instance, I'm more worried about pollution. The kind of pollution that is causing the death of many animals, plants, humans, and also the cause behind the increasing occurrence of allergies altogether.

And Digs, Global warming is occurring. Throughout history climate changes have been always occurring one way or the other. Saying that it doesn't occur is like saying that people don't grow old, and herewith, I'm distancing myself from the Global warming denial movement, because I agree climate changes have been occurring at an increasing rate but one thing is for sure, and there I agree with you, Global warming, and this whole environmental movement have become prey for political exploitation, and is also the source of a lot of idiotic ideas such as how to find a way to decrease the CO2 emissions in cows(what the fuck?). I've made a thread about a similar topic - What is endangered: Climate or freedom?



In the word's of Ron White when he was asked what he was doing to help the planet he said " I am eating the cow but i am just one man"
Posted 12/23/09
From a social scientist's point of view, I can't help but to feel that while the Chinese representatives was acting very selfish at Copenhagen, the rest of the world leader including President Obama himself were too damn polite to one another and China. And if this keeps on they'll be making a mockery out of political delegation, and my very own Canadian representative Stephen Harper was even more so of an idiot that I can give him credit for.

I don't what to overgeneralize politics, when it could very well be that exact same attitude that brought us down to our hands and knees in front of faction loyalty. However when every nations' world leaders all gathered and decided to not do anything about climate change, on an international summit that's for the debate about climate changes. This is basically showing me just how irresponsible and unwilling our world leaders are, when they're addressing about the long term future of our planet's fate.
Posted 12/23/09

DomFortress wrote:

From a social scientist's point of view, I can't help but to feel that while the Chinese representatives was acting very selfish at Copenhagen, the rest of the world leader including President Obama himself were too damn polite to one another and China. And if this keeps on they'll be making a mockery out of political delegation, and my very own Canadian representative Stephen Harper was even more so of an idiot that I can give him credit for.

I don't what to overgeneralize politics, when it could very well be that exact same attitude that brought us down to our hands and knees in front of faction loyalty. However when every nations' world leaders all gathered and decided to not do anything about climate change, on an international summit that's for the debate about climate changes. This is basically showing me just how irresponsible and unwilling our world leaders are, when they're addressing about the long term future of our planet's fate.


the point is china makes most if not all of our goods and they do it cheaply and effectively so we can get goods at lower cost instead of paying a lot of money for them. Using those methods however are bad because the factories pollute way too much and cut to many corners at the same time but it's the price to pay for having a lot jobs sent over to their country. i don't think that it will change people prefer to buy a computer for 300 dollars instead of paying 3,000 like they used to cost when they where manufactured here. It's really a sad thing but people just don't really care in this day time i am not saying all but a lot do.
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Posted 12/23/09
Watching AVATAR reminded me of the summit. And fern gully, among other things.

That aside, I'm kinda blank at the moment, given the rathe extensive responses of the other posters in this thread. I shall return, and I shall shove a sock up digg's nose.
Posted 12/24/09 , edited 12/24/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

In the word's of Ron White when he was asked what he was doing to help the planet he said " I am eating the cow but i am just one man"


Amusing. I blame the incredible amount of meat consumption.

I can't wait to see the day when people with increased methane emission will have to pay extra taxes.


the point is china makes most if not all of our goods and they do it cheaply and effectively so we can get goods at lower cost instead of paying a lot of money for them. Using those methods however are bad because the factories pollute way too much and cut to many corners at the same time but it's the price to pay for having a lot jobs sent over to their country. i don't think that it will change people prefer to buy a computer for 300 dollars instead of paying 3,000 like they used to cost when they where manufactured here. It's really a sad thing but people just don't really care in this day time i am not saying all but a lot do.

True enough.
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Posted 12/24/09

ShroomInferno wrote:


I can't wait to see the day when people with increased methane emission will have to pay extra taxes.


Getting taxed for farting a lot? Sounds a little extreme.
Posted 12/24/09

Cuddlebuns wrote:


ShroomInferno wrote:


I can't wait to see the day when people with increased methane emission will have to pay extra taxes.


Getting taxed for farting a lot? Sounds a little extreme.


stranger things have happen here is a list of strange taxes
http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/18/pf/taxes/strangetaxesupdate/
Posted 12/24/09 , edited 12/24/09

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:



the point is china makes most if not all of our goods and they do it cheaply and effectively so we can get goods at lower cost instead of paying a lot of money for them. Using those methods however are bad because the factories pollute way too much and cut to many corners at the same time but it's the price to pay for having a lot jobs sent over to their country. i don't think that it will change people prefer to buy a computer for 300 dollars instead of paying 3,000 like they used to cost when they where manufactured here. It's really a sad thing but people just don't really care in this day time i am not saying all but a lot do.

That's high living cost due to premium overcharge in a competitive market for ya. While lower production cost due to cheap labors will only allow companies to increase their profit via premium overcharge at a reduce production quality.

That's what you'll get with companies adapting and adopting Japanese business model. And price reduction means nothing when we've got currency inflation, which is why I don't buy into the latest technology up grade that won't add values into my wellness lifestyle choices. Because let's face it, cheaper computers won't solve climate change, while our constant technology upgrades can introduce more electronic wastes and heavy metal pollutions into our already changing climate.


edsamac wrote:

Watching AVATAR reminded me of the summit. And fern gully, among other things.

That aside, I'm kinda blank at the moment, given the rathe extensive responses of the other posters in this thread. I shall return, and I shall shove a sock up digg's nose.

The movie was well worth the admission cost indeed . And it made me think more deeply about our relationship beyond ourselves and projecting our actions as how they relate to Earth.


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


ShroomInferno wrote:


I can't wait to see the day when people with increased methane emission will have to pay extra taxes.


Getting taxed for farting a lot? Sounds a little extreme.


stranger things have happen here is a list of strange taxes
http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/18/pf/taxes/strangetaxesupdate/

A special "jock tax" for entertainers who get paid to entertain others, as well as an extra "amusement tax" for people who paid to get amused with live events? Just what the heck were they smoking when they approved those legislation? Or is this their idea of amusement by people entertaining them with tax dollar.
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