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Disappointment in Copenhagen
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Posted 12/24/09
Everyone can make lifestyle changes to help reduce waste of our resources. We could all stand to evaluate the materialistic lifestyles & throw-away mentality of consumerism.
A good many bushels of our corn crop the last few years have been taken directly to a local ethanol plant. We make use of biofuels with our tractors & farm vehicles.
This past year was dismal for crop production where weather was concerned----- and it wasn't 'cause it was too WARM. Yes, I am concerned about climate change. I am probably more frequently aware of it than a lot of people are, since it so greatly affects the farming operation. After 30 years of marriage in a farming family, I've become aware of weather patterns in our mid-western US location, & I've heard the stories from our local senior citizens of the hardship seasons they encountered during their yrs of farming.
Really, the opening of this thread says it best-- we've been looking into this "problem" of global warming / climate change for the past 10 to 20 yrs. Well, gosh! how short hind sighted of us!!!! Weather records for the US have been kept going back to the 1800s, a little bit more than just 10 or 20 yrs........& there are trends to be seen in them showing small global changes cooler -warmer, back & forth, over the yrs.
This gives me no reason for panic, but I sure as heck don't want some country's political agenda on the other side of the earth from me who knows nothing about the climate on my side dictating how, when, what or where to plant -- this farm is our job, our source of income. We've experienced, researched, educated ourselves over the yrs. for safe, efficient, environment friendly, & profitable methods for farming in our climate's location. If some other political entity decides how our farming operation should be run, you'd better worry about the future quality of your food sources.

And are melting polar ice caps the only cause for islands being swallowed up by the ocean? Wouldn't water displacement of several kinds play into it maybe a little bit, too? Sorry, I'm no expert- & I'm not gonna take time to research it, but I can't help wondering what role the movement of the earth's crust plays in that flooding/drowning island drama? Earthquakes? Underwater volcanoes? Yeah, it's an uneducated opinion, but I'm open to learning about it-feel free to share in my correction.
Posted 12/25/09 , edited 12/25/09

farmbird wrote:



And are melting polar ice caps the only cause for islands being swallowed up by the ocean? Wouldn't water displacement of several kinds play into it maybe a little bit, too? Sorry, I'm no expert- & I'm not gonna take time to research it, but I can't help wondering what role the movement of the earth's crust plays in that flooding/drowning island drama? Earthquakes? Underwater volcanoes? Yeah, it's an uneducated opinion, but I'm open to learning about it-feel free to share in my correction.

I can think of one instant that there's the disappearance of coral reefs near the ocean shore caused by bleaching with the warmer and more acidic ocean.

Global warming isn't caused by localized weather or geographic patterns, when the effect can be felt on a global scale. For the entire body of ocean to become warmer can only be achieved by global warming, when 71% of the Earth's surface is covered by its ocean.
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Posted 1/15/10
the earth used to be a warmer place..
I mean.. in my country (The Netherlands) it's now colder, while in the history it was warm enough to cultivate grapes for wine etc.
Perhaps it's just because hmm.. how to say.. repeating of history? it has to do with the earth's position to the sun. I don't really know how to put this in words. But perhaps is this "change of climate" thing and the fear of the earth getting warmer just an excuse to save money on all kinds of things (and to get money).
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Posted 1/15/10
Hehe, we just had record cold temps and snow where I live. America and Europe experienced a freeze wave XD So much for global warming. Although I'm sure they'll try to blame the cold on what they say will make us melt.
Posted 1/15/10

NeoMOF wrote:

the earth used to be a warmer place..
I mean.. in my country (The Netherlands) it's now colder, while in the history it was warm enough to cultivate grapes for wine etc.
Perhaps it's just because hmm.. how to say.. repeating of history? it has to do with the earth's position to the sun. I don't really know how to put this in words. But perhaps is this "change of climate" thing and the fear of the earth getting warmer just an excuse to save money on all kinds of things (and to get money).
If the Earth's actually getting colder due to shifting polarity, which could cause the Earth to change its centripetal axis. Then the temperature shift shouldn't be this drastic, when pole shift only occurs "at rates of 1° per million years or less".


digs wrote:

Hehe, we just had record cold temps and snow where I live. America and Europe experienced a freeze wave XD So much for global warming. Although I'm sure they'll try to blame the cold on what they say will make us melt.
Isn't that an awfully short-sighted and close-minded thing to say? When my hometown just had a record high heatwave this summer, while there's hardly any snowfall this winter. We're in the middle of winter and yet, it feels like fall here.
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Posted 1/15/10
I wouldn't say it's short sighted and close minded considering global warming is false. There may have been a few places, but if the earth is warming there shouldn't be record colds like this in Europe and the US. My hometown got over 25" of snow, and where I live now got snow for 3 days (and I live in the Southern US). What I think is close minded is not allowing skeptics to talk at Copenhagen and the IPPC. They push propaganda and silence opposition or insult those who don't view things the same way.
Posted 1/15/10

digs wrote:

I wouldn't say it's short sighted and close minded considering global warming is false. There may have been a few places, but if the earth is warming there shouldn't be record colds like this in Europe and the US. My hometown got over 25" of snow, and where I live now got snow for 3 days (and I live in the Southern US). What I think is close minded is not allowing skeptics to talk at Copenhagen and the IPPC. They push propaganda and silence opposition or insult those who don't view things the same way.
That's because you don't live near the ocean like I do. When the Earth's surface temperature is regulated by its ocean, not by its landmass. And the ocean temperature has been rising steadily, while no skeptics can question the fact that 66% of the Earth's surface is covered by ocean at the depth of 200m and below. And those who ignored that fact are not skeptics, when they're just a bunch of idiots.
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Posted 1/15/10

DomFortress wrote:


digs wrote:

I wouldn't say it's short sighted and close minded considering global warming is false. There may have been a few places, but if the earth is warming there shouldn't be record colds like this in Europe and the US. My hometown got over 25" of snow, and where I live now got snow for 3 days (and I live in the Southern US). What I think is close minded is not allowing skeptics to talk at Copenhagen and the IPPC. They push propaganda and silence opposition or insult those who don't view things the same way.
That's because you don't live near the ocean like I do. When the Earth's surface temperature is regulated by its ocean, not by its landmass. And the ocean temperature has been rising steadily, while no skeptics can question the fact that 66% of the Earth's surface is covered by ocean at the depth of 200m and below. And those who ignored that fact are not skeptics, when they're just a bunch of idiots.


My hometown is near the ocean and they got 27 inches of snow. The earth is not warming, in fact leading scientists (even global warming supporters) believe we are entering a 20-30 year mini ice age. I don't think pollution is a good thing, but I don't believe it can alter the environment. I'm all for clean renewable energy, but I'm not for raising taxes and forcing people to cut carbon emissions because of a fake scare. When I see the leaders of this movement I see hypocrites. Al Gore (on of the major, if not the largest, supporter of global warming) lives in my state and has a mansion that consumes more power then 25 regular homes. They all ride in private fuel guzzling jets and don't seem to cut back at all. They say the climate conference released more CO2 from the jets and services for the attendees then the nation of Morocco emits in a year.
Posted 1/15/10

digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


digs wrote:

I wouldn't say it's short sighted and close minded considering global warming is false. There may have been a few places, but if the earth is warming there shouldn't be record colds like this in Europe and the US. My hometown got over 25" of snow, and where I live now got snow for 3 days (and I live in the Southern US). What I think is close minded is not allowing skeptics to talk at Copenhagen and the IPPC. They push propaganda and silence opposition or insult those who don't view things the same way.
That's because you don't live near the ocean like I do. When the Earth's surface temperature is regulated by its ocean, not by its landmass. And the ocean temperature has been rising steadily, while no skeptics can question the fact that 66% of the Earth's surface is covered by ocean at the depth of 200m and below. And those who ignored that fact are not skeptics, when they're just a bunch of idiots.


My hometown is near the ocean and they got 27 inches of snow. The earth is not warming, in fact leading scientists (even global warming supporters) believe we are entering a 20-30 year mini ice age. I don't think pollution is a good thing, but I don't believe it can alter the environment. I'm all for clean renewable energy, but I'm not for raising taxes and forcing people to cut carbon emissions because of a fake scare. When I see the leaders of this movement I see hypocrites. Al Gore (on of the major, if not the largest, supporter of global warming) lives in my state and has a mansion that consumes more power then 25 regular homes. They all ride in private fuel guzzling jets and don't seem to cut back at all. They say the climate conference released more CO2 from the jets and services for the attendees then the nation of Morocco emits in a year.

Did you also happen to have a natural rock formation(AKA the Rocky Mountain) to act like a weather shelter near the East coast where you live? I do.

The fact that the Earth's axis hasn't change, that the Northern hemisphere is receiving less direct sun exposure during the Earth's winter part of its solar rotation, that the Atlantic Ocean is getting warmer the deeper it gets. Why do you think that a mini ice age is coming is therefore beyond me.

And Al Gore didn't cause the majority of the climate change, we did.
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Posted 1/15/10

DomFortress wrote:


digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


digs wrote:

I wouldn't say it's short sighted and close minded considering global warming is false. There may have been a few places, but if the earth is warming there shouldn't be record colds like this in Europe and the US. My hometown got over 25" of snow, and where I live now got snow for 3 days (and I live in the Southern US). What I think is close minded is not allowing skeptics to talk at Copenhagen and the IPPC. They push propaganda and silence opposition or insult those who don't view things the same way.
That's because you don't live near the ocean like I do. When the Earth's surface temperature is regulated by its ocean, not by its landmass. And the ocean temperature has been rising steadily, while no skeptics can question the fact that 66% of the Earth's surface is covered by ocean at the depth of 200m and below. And those who ignored that fact are not skeptics, when they're just a bunch of idiots.


My hometown is near the ocean and they got 27 inches of snow. The earth is not warming, in fact leading scientists (even global warming supporters) believe we are entering a 20-30 year mini ice age. I don't think pollution is a good thing, but I don't believe it can alter the environment. I'm all for clean renewable energy, but I'm not for raising taxes and forcing people to cut carbon emissions because of a fake scare. When I see the leaders of this movement I see hypocrites. Al Gore (on of the major, if not the largest, supporter of global warming) lives in my state and has a mansion that consumes more power then 25 regular homes. They all ride in private fuel guzzling jets and don't seem to cut back at all. They say the climate conference released more CO2 from the jets and services for the attendees then the nation of Morocco emits in a year.

Did you also happen to have a natural rock formation(AKA the Rocky Mountain) to act like a weather shelter near the East coast where you live? I do.

The fact that the Earth's axis hasn't change, that the Northern hemisphere is receiving less direct sun exposure during the Earth's winter part of its solar rotation, that the Atlantic Ocean is getting warmer the deeper it gets. Why do you think that a mini ice age is coming is therefore beyond me.

And Al Gore didn't cause the majority of the climate change, we did.


Actually I did, where I lived the Appalachian mountains acted as a shield against cold fronts coming from the west, yet things still got cold due to other fronts. I lived in Maryland.

And I am skepticle as to an ice age coming, but several scientists believe it to be true. I looked for an article and I found this from the Daily Mail. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html
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Posted 1/15/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zOXmJ4jd-8
Lord Christopher Monckton speaks on October 14th, 2009 at a climate skeptic event sponsored by the Minnesota Free Market Institute.

I'd advise any "Climate Change" zombie to set aside about 95 minutes, and at the end actually think about if Climate-Change / Global-Warming is all it's really cracked up to be.

Global Warming ain't my problem.
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Posted 1/15/10

Lionna wrote:

Hey all,

Climate change has been a persistent and prevalent topic in the last 10 or 20 years. Fossil fuels in the atmosphere are creating an increase of the naturally-occurring greenhouse effect, making the Earth's temperature rise. Scientists predict that if carbon emissions are not stopped completely by 2050, a number of severe and negative things will occur, such as rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns, to name a couple. If you're at all interested in the data behind these predictions, have a look at the World Watch Institute's website. I'm sure you can find it through a simple Google search.

World leaders met recently in Copenhagen to discuss what to do after the Kyoto protocol runs out in 2012. People around the globe had high hopes for this meeting (search "350", and you'll get mountains of articles about demonstrations people have done). At best, leaders would have come out of these talks with new information and suggestions on how to preserve the integrity of the ecosystem without compromising the economy in any big way.

What came out of it, you ask?

A whole lot of nothing.

I have personally found this grossly disappointing, as I'm sure many globally conscious people have as well. China was unwilling to take any large steps, saying they will not undermine their still-developing economy for the sake of the environment. The United States was unwilling to take significant leadership as well, solely on the grounds that they don't want China to get ahead of them, economically, on the global market.
In Canada, Stephen Harper, well...he's the idiot who discontinued Canada's participation in the Kyoto protocol. I'm allowed to say that because I am Canadian, and I've disliked him from the beginning.

Money. It seems that's all people care about these days. You know, there are islands in the Indian Ocean that will be SWALLOWED UP BY THE OCEAN if the sea level keeps rising! Their leader went to Copenhagen with a plea for action. He was there for his country's survival! But the big, developed nations, such as China, America, and Japan, turned a blind eye on the grounds of economic competition.

Okay, WHAT is WRONG with that picture??

The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity. I am vastly disconcerted and disgusted by the decisions of our leaders. Leaders are those we put our trust in, those who represent us as a people. I personally feel as though they have failed us.

Yes, the issue is certainly more complicated than "They chose money over life". I realize this. But when it comes down to it, REALLY comes down to it...who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?
You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era (the last 50 000 years that has had a stable climate and made agriculture, and ultimately civilization as we know it, possible). But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES.


Sigh. I guess that's all I have to say for now. I can't help feeling a little despairing. Pogo said it best when he realized, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Share your opinions.


is this about global warming? then here is my opinion about this warming issue. People are getting too hot headed over this issue. Scientists are split over it even after 20 years of argueing up a storm,yet no earth shaking conclusions have been made yet .

So world leaders are not going to risk changes that would brew up its own storm on what may be a myth.

"The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity"

Money IS life. And we lost our humanity long ago.

"who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?"

The world leaders do, and u have to be competitive inorder to have clothes, food, and happiness for your people.

"You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era"

the real quesion is if we are in danger of losing the Holocene Era. And if so, is it due to human interference or a natural occurence? Does a "comfortable lifestyle" really affect climate?

"But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES."

They are against climate change? and what do they think they can do about it? Reguardless of whether or not its a natural occurence or caused by humans, they cant do a thing about it for various reasons.

And what sacrifices would they make? Most are poor, hungry, thirsty,no shelter ,education, ect. They have nothing really worth sacrificing. Now, people in 1st world countries are the only ones causing this issue (if it exist), and they r the only ones who can stop it. The dilemma is that people in the developed countries have much to sacrifice over something that may be a myth. Will climate change destroy the world like people claim it will? or will things be just a little hotter then they are today? Will this change be a bad thing? Can it be proven rising sea levels are caused by a little C02 in the air? These quesions must be answered b4 everyone takes this issue seriously. peace over war
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Posted 1/20/10
Hah, wow.

When i read the title I thought the thread was about copenhagen dip.

nice.

now i feel like a massive redneck.
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Posted 1/20/10

Lionna wrote:


digs wrote:

I'm glad nothing came from the meeting because Global Warming is not a problem. I have done two papers debunking global warming in college, and I can honestly say the theory of anthropogenic global warming (man caused) is not an issue and is entirely false. It was created so governments can expand their power, so certain individuals can become billionaires and to scare the world into a more globalized state. I hope we never have another silly climate summit, and any laws/restrictions on CO2 emissions will only act to hurt economies. I hope the world realizes that global warming is a lie, they really need to stop pushing such a dogmatic ideology and ruining our lives in the process. Just look at the emails from East Anglia University, global warming is a fabricated myth and should not be taken seriously by any world government.

As a side note, did you know all the CO2 emitted by the delegates from their jets was more then what the whole nation of Morocco emits in a year? If it's such an issue why aren't the world leaders flying economy or jet-pooling?


While I respect your opinion, I strongly urge you to have a look at the data supporting the claims of climate change. The Arctic sea ice is melting. It just...is. I SEE IT. I LIVE up here. There are also graphs/measurements that show a direct corrolation between increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere and rising temperatures. I also suggest taking me up on my offer to seek out the World Watch Institute website. They have a lot of great information, and more importantly, it's FACTUAL. No claims are made without peer-reviewed, scientific evidence.


Well if you think global warming is real and happening, why dont you kill yourself? 6.7 billion human beings on this very Earth afterall exhale carbon dioxide.

Carbon dioxide btw are "pollutant" according to IPCC scientists.

Antarctic sea water shows 'no sign' of warming
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/antarctic-sea-water-shows-no-sign-of-warming/story-fn3dxity-1225818314421

An Inconvenient Truth: The Ice Cap Is Growing
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/watercooler/2010/jan/10/inconvenient-truth-ice-cap-growing/

Hungarian Physicist Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi proves CO2 emissions irrelevant in Earth’s Climate
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2010m1d12-Hungarian-Physicist-Dr-Ferenc-Miskolczi-proves-CO2-emissions-irrelevant-in-Earths-Climate

Ice caps and glaciers growing around the world, penguins looking for warmth!
http://www.iloveco2.org/2009/01/ice-caps-and-glaciers-growing-around.html

More Than 700 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims
http://www.epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=10fe77b0-802a-23ad-4df1-fc38ed4f85e3

31,486 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,029 with PhDs
http://www.petitionproject.org/

With all due respect, Mr.President,that is not true.
http://www.cato.org/special/climatechange/cato_climate.pdf

Wow so much for "global scientific consensus".
Posted 1/20/10

azera wrote:



Wow so much for "global scientific consensus".
Let me ask you, just how do you think trees grow? And where do the trees get their growing materials from what?

And once you knew how the trees can grow out of what from where, do you think we have more or less trees than we originally started out with?

Finally, when you look at the World map, can you tell me just where are the highest carbon emitting nations are located near the Northern hemisphere? When the Northern Ice Cap is indeed melting, while the increase in Southern Ice Cap could very well be the result of it.
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