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Disappointment in Copenhagen
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Posted 2/6/10

JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:

Hey all,

Climate change has been a persistent and prevalent topic in the last 10 or 20 years. Fossil fuels in the atmosphere are creating an increase of the naturally-occurring greenhouse effect, making the Earth's temperature rise. Scientists predict that if carbon emissions are not stopped completely by 2050, a number of severe and negative things will occur, such as rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns, to name a couple. If you're at all interested in the data behind these predictions, have a look at the World Watch Institute's website. I'm sure you can find it through a simple Google search.

World leaders met recently in Copenhagen to discuss what to do after the Kyoto protocol runs out in 2012. People around the globe had high hopes for this meeting (search "350", and you'll get mountains of articles about demonstrations people have done). At best, leaders would have come out of these talks with new information and suggestions on how to preserve the integrity of the ecosystem without compromising the economy in any big way.

What came out of it, you ask?

A whole lot of nothing.

I have personally found this grossly disappointing, as I'm sure many globally conscious people have as well. China was unwilling to take any large steps, saying they will not undermine their still-developing economy for the sake of the environment. The United States was unwilling to take significant leadership as well, solely on the grounds that they don't want China to get ahead of them, economically, on the global market.
In Canada, Stephen Harper, well...he's the idiot who discontinued Canada's participation in the Kyoto protocol. I'm allowed to say that because I am Canadian, and I've disliked him from the beginning.

Money. It seems that's all people care about these days. You know, there are islands in the Indian Ocean that will be SWALLOWED UP BY THE OCEAN if the sea level keeps rising! Their leader went to Copenhagen with a plea for action. He was there for his country's survival! But the big, developed nations, such as China, America, and Japan, turned a blind eye on the grounds of economic competition.

Okay, WHAT is WRONG with that picture??

The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity. I am vastly disconcerted and disgusted by the decisions of our leaders. Leaders are those we put our trust in, those who represent us as a people. I personally feel as though they have failed us.

Yes, the issue is certainly more complicated than "They chose money over life". I realize this. But when it comes down to it, REALLY comes down to it...who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?
You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era (the last 50 000 years that has had a stable climate and made agriculture, and ultimately civilization as we know it, possible). But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES.


Sigh. I guess that's all I have to say for now. I can't help feeling a little despairing. Pogo said it best when he realized, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Share your opinions.


is this about global warming? then here is my opinion about this warming issue. People are getting too hot headed over this issue. Scientists are split over it even after 20 years of argueing up a storm,yet no earth shaking conclusions have been made yet .

So world leaders are not going to risk changes that would brew up its own storm on what may be a myth.



Pretty sure world leaders wouldn't congregate together to discuss this issue if it was "a myth". It was speculation in the 1970s, but in the past 40 years scientists have gathered MOUNTAINS of evidence.
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Posted 2/8/10

Lionna wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:

Hey all,

Climate change has been a persistent and prevalent topic in the last 10 or 20 years. Fossil fuels in the atmosphere are creating an increase of the naturally-occurring greenhouse effect, making the Earth's temperature rise. Scientists predict that if carbon emissions are not stopped completely by 2050, a number of severe and negative things will occur, such as rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns, to name a couple. If you're at all interested in the data behind these predictions, have a look at the World Watch Institute's website. I'm sure you can find it through a simple Google search.

World leaders met recently in Copenhagen to discuss what to do after the Kyoto protocol runs out in 2012. People around the globe had high hopes for this meeting (search "350", and you'll get mountains of articles about demonstrations people have done). At best, leaders would have come out of these talks with new information and suggestions on how to preserve the integrity of the ecosystem without compromising the economy in any big way.

What came out of it, you ask?

A whole lot of nothing.

I have personally found this grossly disappointing, as I'm sure many globally conscious people have as well. China was unwilling to take any large steps, saying they will not undermine their still-developing economy for the sake of the environment. The United States was unwilling to take significant leadership as well, solely on the grounds that they don't want China to get ahead of them, economically, on the global market.
In Canada, Stephen Harper, well...he's the idiot who discontinued Canada's participation in the Kyoto protocol. I'm allowed to say that because I am Canadian, and I've disliked him from the beginning.

Money. It seems that's all people care about these days. You know, there are islands in the Indian Ocean that will be SWALLOWED UP BY THE OCEAN if the sea level keeps rising! Their leader went to Copenhagen with a plea for action. He was there for his country's survival! But the big, developed nations, such as China, America, and Japan, turned a blind eye on the grounds of economic competition.

Okay, WHAT is WRONG with that picture??

The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity. I am vastly disconcerted and disgusted by the decisions of our leaders. Leaders are those we put our trust in, those who represent us as a people. I personally feel as though they have failed us.

Yes, the issue is certainly more complicated than "They chose money over life". I realize this. But when it comes down to it, REALLY comes down to it...who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?
You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era (the last 50 000 years that has had a stable climate and made agriculture, and ultimately civilization as we know it, possible). But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES.


Sigh. I guess that's all I have to say for now. I can't help feeling a little despairing. Pogo said it best when he realized, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Share your opinions.


is this about global warming? then here is my opinion about this warming issue. People are getting too hot headed over this issue. Scientists are split over it even after 20 years of argueing up a storm,yet no earth shaking conclusions have been made yet .

So world leaders are not going to risk changes that would brew up its own storm on what may be a myth.



Pretty sure world leaders wouldn't congregate together to discuss this issue if it was "a myth". It was speculation in the 1970s, but in the past 40 years scientists have gathered MOUNTAINS of evidence.


And STILL there is conflict in the science community, they have mountains of evidence but not a hill of conclusion. All the fuss is over a relativly small increase in CO2 in the environment. This is probably not even due to human efforts, but overall natural climate change.

Reguardles though it couldnt hurt to take care of the planet, just using what may be a myth to do that is called deception. And the means dont always justify the end. peace over war
Posted 2/8/10

JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:



Pretty sure world leaders wouldn't congregate together to discuss this issue if it was "a myth". It was speculation in the 1970s, but in the past 40 years scientists have gathered MOUNTAINS of evidence.


And STILL there is conflict in the science community, they have mountains of evidence but not a hill of conclusion. All the fuss is over a relativly small increase in CO2 in the environment. This is probably not even due to human efforts, but overall natural climate change.

Reguardles though it couldnt hurt to take care of the planet, just using what may be a myth to do that is called deception.
And the means dont always justify the end. peace over war
Are you telling me that CO2 emission caused by man-made internal combustion engines is a natural occurrence? Now talk about deceiving.[/sarcasm]
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Posted 2/8/10

JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:

Hey all,

Climate change has been a persistent and prevalent topic in the last 10 or 20 years. Fossil fuels in the atmosphere are creating an increase of the naturally-occurring greenhouse effect, making the Earth's temperature rise. Scientists predict that if carbon emissions are not stopped completely by 2050, a number of severe and negative things will occur, such as rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns, to name a couple. If you're at all interested in the data behind these predictions, have a look at the World Watch Institute's website. I'm sure you can find it through a simple Google search.

World leaders met recently in Copenhagen to discuss what to do after the Kyoto protocol runs out in 2012. People around the globe had high hopes for this meeting (search "350", and you'll get mountains of articles about demonstrations people have done). At best, leaders would have come out of these talks with new information and suggestions on how to preserve the integrity of the ecosystem without compromising the economy in any big way.

What came out of it, you ask?

A whole lot of nothing.

I have personally found this grossly disappointing, as I'm sure many globally conscious people have as well. China was unwilling to take any large steps, saying they will not undermine their still-developing economy for the sake of the environment. The United States was unwilling to take significant leadership as well, solely on the grounds that they don't want China to get ahead of them, economically, on the global market.
In Canada, Stephen Harper, well...he's the idiot who discontinued Canada's participation in the Kyoto protocol. I'm allowed to say that because I am Canadian, and I've disliked him from the beginning.

Money. It seems that's all people care about these days. You know, there are islands in the Indian Ocean that will be SWALLOWED UP BY THE OCEAN if the sea level keeps rising! Their leader went to Copenhagen with a plea for action. He was there for his country's survival! But the big, developed nations, such as China, America, and Japan, turned a blind eye on the grounds of economic competition.

Okay, WHAT is WRONG with that picture??

The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity. I am vastly disconcerted and disgusted by the decisions of our leaders. Leaders are those we put our trust in, those who represent us as a people. I personally feel as though they have failed us.

Yes, the issue is certainly more complicated than "They chose money over life". I realize this. But when it comes down to it, REALLY comes down to it...who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?
You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era (the last 50 000 years that has had a stable climate and made agriculture, and ultimately civilization as we know it, possible). But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES.


Sigh. I guess that's all I have to say for now. I can't help feeling a little despairing. Pogo said it best when he realized, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Share your opinions.


is this about global warming? then here is my opinion about this warming issue. People are getting too hot headed over this issue. Scientists are split over it even after 20 years of argueing up a storm,yet no earth shaking conclusions have been made yet .

So world leaders are not going to risk changes that would brew up its own storm on what may be a myth.



Pretty sure world leaders wouldn't congregate together to discuss this issue if it was "a myth". It was speculation in the 1970s, but in the past 40 years scientists have gathered MOUNTAINS of evidence.


And STILL there is conflict in the science community, they have mountains of evidence but not a hill of conclusion. All the fuss is over a relativly small increase in CO2 in the environment. This is probably not even due to human efforts, but overall natural climate change.

Reguardles though it couldnt hurt to take care of the planet, just using what may be a myth to do that is called deception. And the means dont always justify the end. peace over war


lol and hey don't forget about Climategate, Glaciergate, Pachaurigate......its all in the news, many gates in coming years....so much for "consensus". Even the Indian government is considering having their own 'IPCC' because they cant rely on facts from scandal-hit IPCC.
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Posted 2/9/10

JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:

Hey all,

Climate change has been a persistent and prevalent topic in the last 10 or 20 years. Fossil fuels in the atmosphere are creating an increase of the naturally-occurring greenhouse effect, making the Earth's temperature rise. Scientists predict that if carbon emissions are not stopped completely by 2050, a number of severe and negative things will occur, such as rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns, to name a couple. If you're at all interested in the data behind these predictions, have a look at the World Watch Institute's website. I'm sure you can find it through a simple Google search.

World leaders met recently in Copenhagen to discuss what to do after the Kyoto protocol runs out in 2012. People around the globe had high hopes for this meeting (search "350", and you'll get mountains of articles about demonstrations people have done). At best, leaders would have come out of these talks with new information and suggestions on how to preserve the integrity of the ecosystem without compromising the economy in any big way.

What came out of it, you ask?

A whole lot of nothing.

I have personally found this grossly disappointing, as I'm sure many globally conscious people have as well. China was unwilling to take any large steps, saying they will not undermine their still-developing economy for the sake of the environment. The United States was unwilling to take significant leadership as well, solely on the grounds that they don't want China to get ahead of them, economically, on the global market.
In Canada, Stephen Harper, well...he's the idiot who discontinued Canada's participation in the Kyoto protocol. I'm allowed to say that because I am Canadian, and I've disliked him from the beginning.

Money. It seems that's all people care about these days. You know, there are islands in the Indian Ocean that will be SWALLOWED UP BY THE OCEAN if the sea level keeps rising! Their leader went to Copenhagen with a plea for action. He was there for his country's survival! But the big, developed nations, such as China, America, and Japan, turned a blind eye on the grounds of economic competition.

Okay, WHAT is WRONG with that picture??

The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity. I am vastly disconcerted and disgusted by the decisions of our leaders. Leaders are those we put our trust in, those who represent us as a people. I personally feel as though they have failed us.

Yes, the issue is certainly more complicated than "They chose money over life". I realize this. But when it comes down to it, REALLY comes down to it...who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?
You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era (the last 50 000 years that has had a stable climate and made agriculture, and ultimately civilization as we know it, possible). But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES.


Sigh. I guess that's all I have to say for now. I can't help feeling a little despairing. Pogo said it best when he realized, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Share your opinions.


is this about global warming? then here is my opinion about this warming issue. People are getting too hot headed over this issue. Scientists are split over it even after 20 years of argueing up a storm,yet no earth shaking conclusions have been made yet .

So world leaders are not going to risk changes that would brew up its own storm on what may be a myth.



Pretty sure world leaders wouldn't congregate together to discuss this issue if it was "a myth". It was speculation in the 1970s, but in the past 40 years scientists have gathered MOUNTAINS of evidence.


And STILL there is conflict in the science community, they have mountains of evidence but not a hill of conclusion. All the fuss is over a relativly small increase in CO2 in the environment. This is probably not even due to human efforts, but overall natural climate change.

Reguardles though it couldnt hurt to take care of the planet, just using what may be a myth to do that is called deception. And the means dont always justify the end. peace over war


I learned about this stuff. The global termperature rising 0.8 degrees celsius maybe not seem like a lot to us humans, because we're large organisms, but on the microscopic level the effects are disastrous.

And seriously, if the earth was going to warm that much by itself, it would take THOUSANDS of years. Not 150.
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Posted 2/9/10

Lionna wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


Lionna wrote:

Hey all,

Climate change has been a persistent and prevalent topic in the last 10 or 20 years. Fossil fuels in the atmosphere are creating an increase of the naturally-occurring greenhouse effect, making the Earth's temperature rise. Scientists predict that if carbon emissions are not stopped completely by 2050, a number of severe and negative things will occur, such as rising sea levels and extreme weather patterns, to name a couple. If you're at all interested in the data behind these predictions, have a look at the World Watch Institute's website. I'm sure you can find it through a simple Google search.

World leaders met recently in Copenhagen to discuss what to do after the Kyoto protocol runs out in 2012. People around the globe had high hopes for this meeting (search "350", and you'll get mountains of articles about demonstrations people have done). At best, leaders would have come out of these talks with new information and suggestions on how to preserve the integrity of the ecosystem without compromising the economy in any big way.

What came out of it, you ask?

A whole lot of nothing.

I have personally found this grossly disappointing, as I'm sure many globally conscious people have as well. China was unwilling to take any large steps, saying they will not undermine their still-developing economy for the sake of the environment. The United States was unwilling to take significant leadership as well, solely on the grounds that they don't want China to get ahead of them, economically, on the global market.
In Canada, Stephen Harper, well...he's the idiot who discontinued Canada's participation in the Kyoto protocol. I'm allowed to say that because I am Canadian, and I've disliked him from the beginning.

Money. It seems that's all people care about these days. You know, there are islands in the Indian Ocean that will be SWALLOWED UP BY THE OCEAN if the sea level keeps rising! Their leader went to Copenhagen with a plea for action. He was there for his country's survival! But the big, developed nations, such as China, America, and Japan, turned a blind eye on the grounds of economic competition.

Okay, WHAT is WRONG with that picture??

The day we put money above life is the day we lose our humanity. I am vastly disconcerted and disgusted by the decisions of our leaders. Leaders are those we put our trust in, those who represent us as a people. I personally feel as though they have failed us.

Yes, the issue is certainly more complicated than "They chose money over life". I realize this. But when it comes down to it, REALLY comes down to it...who the fuck CARES who the richest country is?? As long as your people are fed and clothed and happy, what's the point of being economically competitive?
You might argue that people are unwilling to give up their comfortable lifestyle for the sake of the Holocene Era (the last 50 000 years that has had a stable climate and made agriculture, and ultimately civilization as we know it, possible). But people all around the world, millions of people have protested, demonstrated, and spoken out against climate change. THEY ARE CLEARLY WILLING TO MAKE THE NECESSARY SACRIFICES.


Sigh. I guess that's all I have to say for now. I can't help feeling a little despairing. Pogo said it best when he realized, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

Share your opinions.


is this about global warming? then here is my opinion about this warming issue. People are getting too hot headed over this issue. Scientists are split over it even after 20 years of argueing up a storm,yet no earth shaking conclusions have been made yet .

So world leaders are not going to risk changes that would brew up its own storm on what may be a myth.



Pretty sure world leaders wouldn't congregate together to discuss this issue if it was "a myth". It was speculation in the 1970s, but in the past 40 years scientists have gathered MOUNTAINS of evidence.


And STILL there is conflict in the science community, they have mountains of evidence but not a hill of conclusion. All the fuss is over a relativly small increase in CO2 in the environment. This is probably not even due to human efforts, but overall natural climate change.

Reguardles though it couldnt hurt to take care of the planet, just using what may be a myth to do that is called deception. And the means dont always justify the end. peace over war


I learned about this stuff. The global termperature rising 0.8 degrees celsius maybe not seem like a lot to us humans, because we're large organisms, but on the microscopic level the effects are disastrous.

And seriously, if the earth was going to warm that much by itself, it would take THOUSANDS of years. Not 150.


so this is a microscopic issue then? and the Earth isnt 150 yrs old, its billions of yrs old. climate is constantly changing, along with everything else, the cosmos is ALWAYS in flux. peace over war
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Posted 2/9/10 , edited 2/9/10


Lets hope we do not leave are great great great Great grand kids with a snowball earth , or dessert world like Dessert Punk. Do to are own lack of responsibility pumping CO2 and other Chemicals into the air.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG5_ufWfbuk


Posted 2/9/10 , edited 2/9/10
Yay, I gain many economic knowledge since last year, I might able to talk about this in a economical way..........nah never mind, my grammar is still bad and I need to learn management and economist in University.

Sorry for any grammar errors and false fact. It seems that in a Democrat State, my economic teacher is a Republican, thus split multiple facts about economic.

As what digs said on the first page, I agreed that Global Warming is false, but hold on, I found it false as in... there are message that we humans are increasing Global Warming. I would say that Global Warming is pretty much caused by the current environment/atmosphere heat/ etc.etc. not really much from human caused. But still, we must tackle this because I think that Global Warming causes by human is nearly false (Not including deforestation, pollution, toxic waste, etc.), but there is Global Warming.

Still, I support the effort from governments and campaigns that made everyone reduces CO2, because it make the world working on efficient-safe technology for better future. Such efficient technology, if were produced, could actually made China's sky clear. Without these policies, even if Global Warming is false or not, we might lack the non-polluted efficient technologies we have right now, and lack the thought of caring for Earth. Sure that it may have wasted billions.....maybe trillions of money in the past year on environment, but population is going up, resources are scarce (limited), and the economy are bound to suffer since there are no more space on Earth. Might as well make energy-efficient technologies. China need a technology that keep the sky blue (if possible), reduces the living hazard of smoggy air. I forgot the economic word, but technologies would create new ideas for new technologies.

Obviously in economic, People (Consumers) prefer high quality of products at a lowest price. Businesses (Producers) Want to sell high quality, paying the lowest bill, and make the highest profits. Of course doing so, the product's price would be high But let face it, Our money look like it is expanding and we are greedy for cheap products (Most majority). A hamburger for 25 cent in the 1980 and it is 5 dollar right now? I think that the world is actually hit with high inflation. Like what DomFortress said, China is on quantity, not quality. Lot of people needs products, and I agreed that China offer most of the products here in United State. As population increase with no space left, China have to produce more and more products by near future. I can't blame them for wasting more energies in near future. How will they produce more while cutting down smoky pollution which would cut factory's production rate?

@ Lionna, I agreed that people do care about money. Then again, money is a tool to buy what we want nowadays. To be honest, I am mad at people who carelessly spent money, even within cousin, family, and relatives, atleast I'm not bragging everyone to buy "needs," because most of us want to live free, and most of the products/services are wants rather than needs. The economy seems to have suffer deeply toward the near future, and with debts going high, is it possible to waste more money on the environment? I have to say that the current cultures and money system we have is REALLY BAD. All these Western teen dances, fast food restaurant, technologies that make us lazy.........I thought we were hardworking in the past, but now we getting more lazy and careless. I am definitely sure that attitudes these day are getting worse and worse, and that is a no no for me. From a graph, 0% bad, 50% normal, 100% excellent, I am 55% rather than 75%, because attitudes these day have affected me in a negative way. This includes high idiotic patriotism, racism, and discrimination. Most of us are huge on human rights, and in my brain, it is daydreaming that there should be a call for someone who can tell a country to stand up, but it also daydreaming that there is a complaint that that someone might be a dictator, resulted in revolution and conflict due to laziness.

I blame such inflation and economic problem, and false government action. Remember the bank that offer loans in USA without thinking they can actually pay back? I want the president to make the USA economy go up as soon as possible. My Brother, to be honest, have negative attitudes and is lazy and take money. MY sister quit her job and is currently at home, how am I and the parents handle such economic problems with two no jobs? If I were her, I would stay in my job until I found a new job, and then quit, rather than quit first find second in such economic downturn. I just think that they are either not smart, or lazy.....My money were ripped off for 10 year......well parents money actually.

Anyway, I believed that couple of wars and systems that make us pay even more is the cause of inflation. I'll be mad if the president increases tax (which I fear so over this HealthCare plan). In my opinion, food prices are high? Actually, I think we are just making less money. Making businesses pay more taxes would remove some of their profits from growth and technological improvement, and might actually raise prices and/or lay off workers. While we consumers pay more taxes, we feel elastic over how such taxes is making us pay more and buy/get less. I also blamed most of the economic downturn because of our involvement with Israel/Middle East. The president already spent a trillion stimulus, so why must tax increase?

The economy for our system is a roller coaster.....up and down......but I must see if that will happen until people I know get jobs, I can actually apply for a job, and we have less budget cuts. I blamed most of the budget cuts on government because it made me waste more money and get less learning effort from school, while I blamed them for wasting most of our money on the Middle East involvement and...Loaning without thinking... etc. Then again, most problems including multiple forest fires here in California were caused by idiot people who no thoughts..... Wasted our money too.

Then again I can not yap about economic as we are complaining about global warming, a geological verb that have nothing to do with economic, other than seeing that we spent money on the environment. I found it weird why here in California there is a chaotic rain for 3 weeks and it is usually colder than before (I guess neighboring weather).

Conclusion in short paragraph: Global Warming seem untrue, not caused by human is my opinion, but caused by nature. Support the fact that we push people to be energy efficient. I think no time to rely on the environment until economy has gone up.
Posted 2/20/10
For all of you who are claiming that Global Warming is false, I present you the newest advocate in the fight of Climate Change: Bill Gates, aka the man who's net worth since 2009 is $40bilion.

And GO!
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Posted 2/20/10
From what I know is that global warming is not false and is indeed caused by us.
But is that a bad thing?
First about CO2, what people do not realize is that carbon is the base of life, and over time thanks to vegetation it disappears into the ground, knowing the past that happened alot of times, but when a critical level was reached (or long before or after that) a volcano erupted or a meteor was smashed into the earth, the result was quite destructive at first, but because of those disasters alot of CO2 was blown into the atmosphere again.
Right now we live on quite a poor planet, we might not realize it but there was alot more life on earth 15 million years ago (just a estimate).
Thanks to humanity dragging the CO2 out of the ground and pumping it in the air the forests all over the world are growning 25% faster then before the enormous increase of CO2, yes of course we do not notice the growth but that's because we cut down most of our forests.
Carbon is the base of life, we need more of it, and frankly getting it out of the ground (for example oil) and pumping it into the atmosphere is the best way to preserve life on earth.

Now of course the increase of Co2 in our atmosphere is going to change things, the water level might increase (its not 100% sure), some of the climate will change, that might be devastating to some species, but I'm sure as hell that humanity will survive, because we must not forget how adaptive we are (we survived the ice age.... why not this?).

Changes are not that bad, in the long run we will see that because of the increased CO2 level our crops will grow faster, lands will become more Vertile, If you really think about your descendants then you would see that this is a good thing.
And yes it is a shame that ice bears might go extinct (even tho there are now more then ever before of em), but isn't that called evolution?
Species who cannot adapt to a new environment are simply doomed to go extinct.

However in my opinion the real problem is: Toxins.
Apart from the CO2 emission there are also alot of toxins pumped into the atmosphere and into the oceans.
Now that is a real problem, because this is devastating for the environment itself but also effecting all life on earth.
A clean environment is a good environment, the temperature rising is not the real problem, its what you breath in or eat everyday, this is what we should be aware of.

And we should not judge countries like China because the oppose alot of compromises, because we (Europeans) cut ted down almost 80% of all our forests, and while doing that we developed alot, to the level we are today.
Why not giving China the same chance? It has every right to develop and just like us it now doesn't care about the endearment.

A clean world is what we should strive for, not a world where CO2 emission is reduced to zero, because that could cause us alot of more trouble.
Posted 2/20/10

amersfoort wrote:

From what I know is that global warming is not false and is indeed caused by us.
But is that a bad thing?
First about CO2, what people do not realize is that carbon is the base of life, and over time thanks to vegetation it disappears into the ground, knowing the past that happened alot of times, but when a critical level was reached (or long before or after that) a volcano erupted or a meteor was smashed into the earth, the result was quite destructive at first, but because of those disasters alot of CO2 was blown into the atmosphere again.
Right now we live on quite a poor planet, we might not realize it but there was alot more life on earth 15 million years ago (just a estimate).
Thanks to humanity dragging the CO2 out of the ground and pumping it in the air the forests all over the world are growning 25% faster then before the enormous increase of CO2, yes of course we do not notice the growth but that's because we cut down most of our forests.
Carbon is the base of life, we need more of it, and frankly getting it out of the ground (for example oil) and pumping it into the atmosphere is the best way to preserve life on earth.

Now of course the increase of Co2 in our atmosphere is going to change things, the water level might increase (its not 100% sure), some of the climate will change, that might be devastating to some species, but I'm sure as hell that humanity will survive, because we must not forget how adaptive we are (we survived the ice age.... why not this?).

Changes are not that bad, in the long run we will see that because of the increased CO2 level our crops will grow faster, lands will become more Vertile, If you really think about your descendants then you would see that this is a good thing.
And yes it is a shame that ice bears might go extinct (even tho there are now more then ever before of em), but isn't that called evolution?
Species who cannot adapt to a new environment are simply doomed to go extinct.

However in my opinion the real problem is: Toxins.
Apart from the CO2 emission there are also alot of toxins pumped into the atmosphere and into the oceans.
Now that is a real problem, because this is devastating for the environment itself but also effecting all life on earth.
A clean environment is a good environment, the temperature rising is not the real problem, its what you breath in or eat everyday, this is what we should be aware of.

And we should not judge countries like China because the oppose alot of compromises, because we (Europeans) cut ted down almost 80% of all our forests, and while doing that we developed alot, to the level we are today.
Why not giving China the same chance? It has every right to develop and just like us it now doesn't care about the endearment.

A clean world is what we should strive for, not a world where CO2 emission is reduced to zero, because that could cause us alot of more trouble.
If it's toxins you're worrying, then you shouldn't overlook on acid rain pollution.

And while humans caused the climate change, all but one kingdoms of life on Earth are not adapting and adopting to the changing climate condition fast enough. And the only kingdom on Earth that's evolving quick enough to survive this accident are the none-carbon based life form known as technology.
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Posted 2/20/10

DomFortress wrote:


amersfoort wrote:

From what I know is that global warming is not false and is indeed caused by us.
But is that a bad thing?
First about CO2, what people do not realize is that carbon is the base of life, and over time thanks to vegetation it disappears into the ground, knowing the past that happened alot of times, but when a critical level was reached (or long before or after that) a volcano erupted or a meteor was smashed into the earth, the result was quite destructive at first, but because of those disasters alot of CO2 was blown into the atmosphere again.
Right now we live on quite a poor planet, we might not realize it but there was alot more life on earth 15 million years ago (just a estimate).
Thanks to humanity dragging the CO2 out of the ground and pumping it in the air the forests all over the world are growning 25% faster then before the enormous increase of CO2, yes of course we do not notice the growth but that's because we cut down most of our forests.
Carbon is the base of life, we need more of it, and frankly getting it out of the ground (for example oil) and pumping it into the atmosphere is the best way to preserve life on earth.

Now of course the increase of Co2 in our atmosphere is going to change things, the water level might increase (its not 100% sure), some of the climate will change, that might be devastating to some species, but I'm sure as hell that humanity will survive, because we must not forget how adaptive we are (we survived the ice age.... why not this?).

Changes are not that bad, in the long run we will see that because of the increased CO2 level our crops will grow faster, lands will become more Vertile, If you really think about your descendants then you would see that this is a good thing.
And yes it is a shame that ice bears might go extinct (even tho there are now more then ever before of em), but isn't that called evolution?
Species who cannot adapt to a new environment are simply doomed to go extinct.

However in my opinion the real problem is: Toxins.
Apart from the CO2 emission there are also alot of toxins pumped into the atmosphere and into the oceans.
Now that is a real problem, because this is devastating for the environment itself but also effecting all life on earth.
A clean environment is a good environment, the temperature rising is not the real problem, its what you breath in or eat everyday, this is what we should be aware of.

And we should not judge countries like China because the oppose alot of compromises, because we (Europeans) cut ted down almost 80% of all our forests, and while doing that we developed alot, to the level we are today.
Why not giving China the same chance? It has every right to develop and just like us it now doesn't care about the endearment.

A clean world is what we should strive for, not a world where CO2 emission is reduced to zero, because that could cause us alot of more trouble.
If it's toxins you're worrying, then you shouldn't overlook on acid rain pollution.

And while humans caused the climate change, all but one kingdoms of life on Earth are not adapting and adopting to the changing climate condition fast enough. And the only kingdom on Earth that's evolving quick enough to survive this accident are the none-carbon based life form known as technology.


Perhaps I should indeed be concerned with acid rain, unfortunatly my knowledge about it is very small therefore it did not occur to me.

And probably because of my lack of general knowledge or perhaps my lack of English knowledge (or a combination) I fail to understand your statement about technology, please feel free to explain it too me for I am eager to learn about it and too understand it.
Posted 2/20/10

amersfoort wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


amersfoort wrote:



A clean world is what we should strive for, not a world where CO2 emission is reduced to zero, because that could cause us alot of more trouble.
If it's toxins you're worrying, then you shouldn't overlook on acid rain pollution.

And while humans caused the climate change, all but one kingdoms of life on Earth are not adapting and adopting to the changing climate condition fast enough. And the only kingdom on Earth that's evolving quick enough to survive this accident are the none-carbon based life form known as technology.


Perhaps I should indeed be concerned with acid rain, unfortunatly my knowledge about it is very small therefore it did not occur to me.

And probably because of my lack of general knowledge or perhaps my lack of English knowledge (or a combination) I fail to understand your statement about technology, please feel free to explain it too me for I am eager to learn about it and too understand it.
It's not about your lack of English comprehension, for I can assure you that both Bill Gates and Kevin Kelly aren't using big words and hard to understand concept. In fact, it's about drawing comparisons based on what they've said, and forming new concept using what's similar and different about each information set.

Both Bill Gates and Kevin Kelly are techies, and their topics have two similarities: technology and energy. However, that doesn't mean they were talking about the same subject. For while Bill talked about reducing climate change, by becoming more energy efficient with new technology and economic incentives. That geared toward reducing CO2 emission. Kevin OTOH was demonstrating how technology itself became the dominate 7th kingdom of life, by managing to domesticate human beings, elevating itself to be the highest energy dense complex organism, all the while evolved to become non carbon based. By replacing its inner processors with silicon as an alternative biochemical agent.

So we can see that by assuming technology is a silicon based complex organism, its evolutionary process is the natural progression of energy efficiency while terraforming the Earth. And with an artificial intelligent capable of abstract thinking, technology will soon have no more use of humanity.
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digs 
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Posted 2/20/10
The next climate summit really needs to talk about the falsehoods of the AGW theory. The climate gate emails happened, the IPCC has admitted fraud in their report, the head of the UN climate panel is resigning... AGW is a lie, and things are finally starting to fall apart. I hope the world will admit that it was wrong and move towards prosperity and not pushing such a disastrous and expensive lie. Despite all evidence and all fraud, it seems the international community is arrogantly holding to their dead view and bashing/refusing to listen to anyone or any evidence that would prove them wrong.
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Posted 2/20/10

digs wrote:

The next climate summit really needs to talk about the falsehoods of the AGW theory. The climate gate emails happened, the IPCC has admitted fraud in their report, the head of the UN climate panel is resigning... AGW is a lie, and things are finally starting to fall apart. I hope the world will admit that it was wrong and move towards prosperity and not pushing such a disastrous and expensive lie. Despite all evidence and all fraud, it seems the international community is arrogantly holding to their dead view and bashing/refusing to listen to anyone or any evidence that would prove them wrong.


What the hell are you going on about? Sorry you lost me...?

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