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Humanity Being Animal-like
Posted 3/20/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:

Humans, in my opinion, have naturaly animalistic natures. If you were to strip away our structure, our society, and our culture we would inevitably revert back to our natural beast-like natures. Take a man plop him in the middle of the jungle and his primal instict will erode all other thoughts and that basic instinct is survival, when a man does not have the structure of a society to civilize him he will become like any other animal only focusing on his own survival. Read Lord of the Flies by William Golding, it is a fantastic example of what I am trying to convey. All animals focus primarily on their own survival and man is no different, I mean look at what we do the second we feel threated as a nation, we go to war. We are scared someone will try to kill us so what is our reaction? Kill everyone that wants to kill us first! That is not much different then when a animals kills another animal for threatening it's pact.


'I do not think we have to be stripped of anything.. to revert back to are natural instincts. I believe Humans do fallow there natural instincts.. and seek to fulfill their baser Needs.'
'We might dress it up to try to separate are selves from the rest of the animal kingdom. But in the end what drives all man kind are the animalistic instincts that most if not all animals share..'





True but losing those things would cause us to fully give in our instincts, it's an extreme example, while we may occansionaly act upon our instincts in an animalistic way we never fully give in to it, mostly because we are held together by our society. Lose that and we are savage cavemen yet again.




What you do not understand creating group : herds or packs is a natural instinct.. we build communities with rules and laws no differently than wolfs, the great apes, or even some Insects. It is natural for humans to create such things because it is part of are instincts just like its part of most animals instincts. 'Even Dinosaurs and Cavemen fallow that instinct... Hunting in packs, gathering for their tribes/herds/packs Protecting each other, and punishing those that brake the laws of there communities.
A wolf pack will excommunicate or exile a fellow wolf if he,she brakes the rules and leads to a fellow pack member getting hurt.


I understand that concept perfectly thank you very much I was focusing on a different aspect of the question and looking at it from a different angle. Please do not try to explain things to me that I already realize. I was looking more at the more savage aspects of human/animal behavior rather then how we act alike in everyday life.
Like what Rape? Murder? Beating ones children? Religion?



Not quite please allow me to explain something. I am deeply fascinated with the human mind and why people act the way they do, and what fascinates me more then anything is exploring human behavior in a senario such as the collapse of society and if people would give in to basic instincts, in fact I just begun the process of writing a novel on the very topic, when I see a question like this one I don't like to think "how" are people like animals I like to think "why" they are like that, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying you have been right in everything you said, just please don't attack me just because we are answering a question in different ways, there is never just one way to answer any question after all.
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Posted 3/21/10

_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:

Humans, in my opinion, have naturaly animalistic natures. If you were to strip away our structure, our society, and our culture we would inevitably revert back to our natural beast-like natures. Take a man plop him in the middle of the jungle and his primal instict will erode all other thoughts and that basic instinct is survival, when a man does not have the structure of a society to civilize him he will become like any other animal only focusing on his own survival. Read Lord of the Flies by William Golding, it is a fantastic example of what I am trying to convey. All animals focus primarily on their own survival and man is no different, I mean look at what we do the second we feel threated as a nation, we go to war. We are scared someone will try to kill us so what is our reaction? Kill everyone that wants to kill us first! That is not much different then when a animals kills another animal for threatening it's pact.


'I do not think we have to be stripped of anything.. to revert back to are natural instincts. I believe Humans do fallow there natural instincts.. and seek to fulfill their baser Needs.'
'We might dress it up to try to separate are selves from the rest of the animal kingdom. But in the end what drives all man kind are the animalistic instincts that most if not all animals share..'





True but losing those things would cause us to fully give in our instincts, it's an extreme example, while we may occansionaly act upon our instincts in an animalistic way we never fully give in to it, mostly because we are held together by our society. Lose that and we are savage cavemen yet again.




What you do not understand creating group : herds or packs is a natural instinct.. we build communities with rules and laws no differently than wolfs, the great apes, or even some Insects. It is natural for humans to create such things because it is part of are instincts just like its part of most animals instincts. 'Even Dinosaurs and Cavemen fallow that instinct... Hunting in packs, gathering for their tribes/herds/packs Protecting each other, and punishing those that brake the laws of there communities.
A wolf pack will excommunicate or exile a fellow wolf if he,she brakes the rules and leads to a fellow pack member getting hurt.


I understand that concept perfectly thank you very much I was focusing on a different aspect of the question and looking at it from a different angle. Please do not try to explain things to me that I already realize. I was looking more at the more savage aspects of human/animal behavior rather then how we act alike in everyday life.
Like what Rape? Murder? Beating ones children? Religion?



Not quite please allow me to explain something. I am deeply fascinated with the human mind and why people act the way they do, and what fascinates me more then anything is exploring human behavior in a senario such as the collapse of society and if people would give in to basic instincts, in fact I just begun the process of writing a novel on the very topic, when I see a question like this one I don't like to think "how" are people like animals I like to think "why" they are like that, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying you have been right in everything you said, just please don't attack me just because we are answering a question in different ways, there is never just one way to answer any question after all.


I see what your getting at.. But I believe it is human nature is to create society.. So even wen society fails and crumbles... People will always go back to some form of community. Old movies like road warriors.. Or anime like Desert Punk, demonstrate this well. Even after the end of society as we know it, a new society will pop up from that. Even Gangs are a form of society after all.
Once you finish your book let me know.. I love reading, and such books I really enjoy.
Posted 3/21/10

_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:

Humans, in my opinion, have naturaly animalistic natures. If you were to strip away our structure, our society, and our culture we would inevitably revert back to our natural beast-like natures. Take a man plop him in the middle of the jungle and his primal instict will erode all other thoughts and that basic instinct is survival, when a man does not have the structure of a society to civilize him he will become like any other animal only focusing on his own survival. Read Lord of the Flies by William Golding, it is a fantastic example of what I am trying to convey. All animals focus primarily on their own survival and man is no different, I mean look at what we do the second we feel threated as a nation, we go to war. We are scared someone will try to kill us so what is our reaction? Kill everyone that wants to kill us first! That is not much different then when a animals kills another animal for threatening it's pact.


'I do not think we have to be stripped of anything.. to revert back to are natural instincts. I believe Humans do fallow there natural instincts.. and seek to fulfill their baser Needs.'
'We might dress it up to try to separate are selves from the rest of the animal kingdom. But in the end what drives all man kind are the animalistic instincts that most if not all animals share..'





True but losing those things would cause us to fully give in our instincts, it's an extreme example, while we may occansionaly act upon our instincts in an animalistic way we never fully give in to it, mostly because we are held together by our society. Lose that and we are savage cavemen yet again.




What you do not understand creating group : herds or packs is a natural instinct.. we build communities with rules and laws no differently than wolfs, the great apes, or even some Insects. It is natural for humans to create such things because it is part of are instincts just like its part of most animals instincts. 'Even Dinosaurs and Cavemen fallow that instinct... Hunting in packs, gathering for their tribes/herds/packs Protecting each other, and punishing those that brake the laws of there communities.
A wolf pack will excommunicate or exile a fellow wolf if he,she brakes the rules and leads to a fellow pack member getting hurt.


I understand that concept perfectly thank you very much I was focusing on a different aspect of the question and looking at it from a different angle. Please do not try to explain things to me that I already realize. I was looking more at the more savage aspects of human/animal behavior rather then how we act alike in everyday life.
Like what Rape? Murder? Beating ones children? Religion?



Not quite please allow me to explain something. I am deeply fascinated with the human mind and why people act the way they do, and what fascinates me more then anything is exploring human behavior in a senario such as the collapse of society and if people would give in to basic instincts, in fact I just begun the process of writing a novel on the very topic, when I see a question like this one I don't like to think "how" are people like animals I like to think "why" they are like that, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying you have been right in everything you said, just please don't attack me just because we are answering a question in different ways, there is never just one way to answer any question after all.
If I may, I would like you to consider something that science do know about the facts of human nature from fictions.

The problem with Lord of the Flies as a fictional social experiment is the fact that the author lacked real understanding about the inner workings of an individual human's mind, and the societal influences on the wills of individuals. Such as the recognition and quantification of the "self", the "Lucifer Effect", the sociological effect of "playing", the natural maturation of a human brain, and how different motivations work differently on all individuals.

Also, the fictional experiment itself had an important element missing in the primitive society; diversity in the forms of adults and/or females. This automatically makes the society itself unsustainable on its own, which is also how and why social progress became collectively homogenized.

This is by no means saying that the classic novel was itself irrelevant, for it boggles its reader's mind to question the nature of humanity. However when nature has its own biological design to maintain social orders on its own, it's therefore the human social norms who kept getting humanity wrong, IMO.

And please do help yourself with some of my other topics on the CR ED forum, for they may offer great insight into your own creative work.


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

I see what your getting at.. But I believe it is human nature is to create society.. So even wen society fails and crumbles... People will always go back to some form of community. Old movies like road warriors.. Or anime like Desert Punk, demonstrate this well. Even after the end of society as we know it, a new society will pop up from that. Even Gangs are a form of society after all.
Once you finish your book let me know.. I love reading, and such books I really enjoy.
Thanks for manning the shop while I was away, it's good that you managed to keep the debate going as it is.
Posted 3/21/10

DomFortress wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


_Wasenshi_ wrote:

Humans, in my opinion, have naturaly animalistic natures. If you were to strip away our structure, our society, and our culture we would inevitably revert back to our natural beast-like natures. Take a man plop him in the middle of the jungle and his primal instict will erode all other thoughts and that basic instinct is survival, when a man does not have the structure of a society to civilize him he will become like any other animal only focusing on his own survival. Read Lord of the Flies by William Golding, it is a fantastic example of what I am trying to convey. All animals focus primarily on their own survival and man is no different, I mean look at what we do the second we feel threated as a nation, we go to war. We are scared someone will try to kill us so what is our reaction? Kill everyone that wants to kill us first! That is not much different then when a animals kills another animal for threatening it's pact.


'I do not think we have to be stripped of anything.. to revert back to are natural instincts. I believe Humans do fallow there natural instincts.. and seek to fulfill their baser Needs.'
'We might dress it up to try to separate are selves from the rest of the animal kingdom. But in the end what drives all man kind are the animalistic instincts that most if not all animals share..'





True but losing those things would cause us to fully give in our instincts, it's an extreme example, while we may occansionaly act upon our instincts in an animalistic way we never fully give in to it, mostly because we are held together by our society. Lose that and we are savage cavemen yet again.




What you do not understand creating group : herds or packs is a natural instinct.. we build communities with rules and laws no differently than wolfs, the great apes, or even some Insects. It is natural for humans to create such things because it is part of are instincts just like its part of most animals instincts. 'Even Dinosaurs and Cavemen fallow that instinct... Hunting in packs, gathering for their tribes/herds/packs Protecting each other, and punishing those that brake the laws of there communities.
A wolf pack will excommunicate or exile a fellow wolf if he,she brakes the rules and leads to a fellow pack member getting hurt.


I understand that concept perfectly thank you very much I was focusing on a different aspect of the question and looking at it from a different angle. Please do not try to explain things to me that I already realize. I was looking more at the more savage aspects of human/animal behavior rather then how we act alike in everyday life.
Like what Rape? Murder? Beating ones children? Religion?



Not quite please allow me to explain something. I am deeply fascinated with the human mind and why people act the way they do, and what fascinates me more then anything is exploring human behavior in a senario such as the collapse of society and if people would give in to basic instincts, in fact I just begun the process of writing a novel on the very topic, when I see a question like this one I don't like to think "how" are people like animals I like to think "why" they are like that, I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying you have been right in everything you said, just please don't attack me just because we are answering a question in different ways, there is never just one way to answer any question after all.
If I may, I would like you to consider something that science do know about the facts of human nature from fictions.

The problem with Lord of the Flies as a fictional social experiment is the fact that the author lacked real understanding about the inner workings of an individual human's mind, and the societal influences on the wills of individuals. Such as the recognition and quantification of the "self", the "Lucifer Effect", the sociological effect of "playing", the natural maturation of a human brain, and how different motivations work differently on all individuals.

Also, the fictional experiment itself had an important element missing in the primitive society; diversity in the forms of adults and/or females. This automatically makes the society itself unsustainable on its own, which is also how and why social progress became collectively homogenized.

This is by no means saying that the classic novel was itself irrelevant, for it boggles its reader's mind to question the nature of humanity. However when nature has its own biological design to maintain social orders on its own, it's therefore the human social norms who kept getting humanity wrong, IMO.

And please do help yourself with some of my other topics on the CR ED forum, for they may offer great insight into your own creative work.


I agree, there were many issues I took with that book, I would like to see a similar one but with adult and women to see how it compared and contrasted to the children In Golding's book. And thank you I have actually done that already I enjoy looking into these topis here, and I have already drawn some concepts and am using them to increase my field of understanding, after all I only just turned 18 so there is still much in the world I reamin ignorant to, I'd like to open my mind more and expirience more of life before I can call my book finished, I am planning on it to take around a year, with revisions and getting a publisher it might take more, no need to rush after all.


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