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The True Father of Jesus!
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Posted 1/9/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

IN my search for evidence for a Jesus in history, I came across only one piece of evidence from a historian speaking his name. What this historian claimed was Jesus is the child of a Roman solder,


Oh! wait! I think you're getting this confused with the plot of "Life of Brian", the Monty Python movie..............uhh? -- you're not? oops ! sorry. My New Year's resolution involves not overreacting to posts involving religious debates, & almost broke that resolve once earlier this evening. oh well, it's back to be good--hhhmmmmm.
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Posted 1/20/10

farmbird wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

IN my search for evidence for a Jesus in history, I came across only one piece of evidence from a historian speaking his name. What this historian claimed was Jesus is the child of a Roman solder,


Oh! wait! I think you're getting this confused with the plot of "Life of Brian", the Monty Python movie..............uhh? -- you're not? oops ! sorry. My New Year's resolution involves not overreacting to posts involving religious debates, & almost broke that resolve once earlier this evening. oh well, it's back to be good--hhhmmmmm.



Happy to test your resolve with that new years resolution.

ON topic.. there is many books on this topic and so I thought is make for a good debate.
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Posted 1/20/10
Any record from around that time, especially about a religion that has since been widely followed and is therefore a very personal subject for many, would have passed through many hands before reaching readers today (this goes for both the sources mentioned and the bible). Therefore, I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions based on such sources.

Having said that, it is quite plausible, from a logical perspective, that that is in fact what happened, although I personally am inclined to believe that the child was Joseph's because he still agreed to marry her, even knowing she was pregnant, whereas if it were the child of a Roman soldier, he could easily have had her stoned to death and picked another woman to marry.
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Posted 1/20/10

madlibbs wrote:

Any record from around that time, especially about a religion that has since been widely followed and is therefore a very personal subject for many, would have passed through many hands before reaching readers today (this goes for both the sources mentioned and the bible). Therefore, I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions based on such sources.

Having said that, it is quite plausible, from a logical perspective, that that is in fact what happened, although I personally am inclined to believe that the child was Joseph's because he still agreed to marry her, even knowing she was pregnant, whereas if it were the child of a Roman soldier, he could easily have had her stoned to death and picked another woman to marry.


It might still been a matter of saving face... letting people know that your soon to be wife, had hots for the solders over you.. Not something you want the people talking about.

Than there is the rape factor.. she might have been raped, or said she was, him still loving her would stick with her after that..

Story of sun of god might of came from the child mind him self wile trying to know who his father was.
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Posted 1/20/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


madlibbs wrote:

Any record from around that time, especially about a religion that has since been widely followed and is therefore a very personal subject for many, would have passed through many hands before reaching readers today (this goes for both the sources mentioned and the bible). Therefore, I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions based on such sources.

Having said that, it is quite plausible, from a logical perspective, that that is in fact what happened, although I personally am inclined to believe that the child was Joseph's because he still agreed to marry her, even knowing she was pregnant, whereas if it were the child of a Roman soldier, he could easily have had her stoned to death and picked another woman to marry.


It might still been a matter of saving face... letting people know that your soon to be wife, had hots for the solders over you.. Not something you want the people talking about.

Than there is the rape factor.. she might have been raped, or said she was, him still loving her would stick with her after that..

Story of sun of god might of came from the child mind him self wile trying to know who his father was.


True, that is equally plausible. I suppose we never can know. As far as the son of god aspect, we also don't know whether Jesus in fact believed that. He may not have believed it, and said it to gain followers. It may well have been worth it to be worshipped, as well as fed,clothed, and sheltered while traveling, by people who believed that he was the Messiah.
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Posted 1/20/10

madlibbs wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


madlibbs wrote:

Any record from around that time, especially about a religion that has since been widely followed and is therefore a very personal subject for many, would have passed through many hands before reaching readers today (this goes for both the sources mentioned and the bible). Therefore, I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions based on such sources.

Having said that, it is quite plausible, from a logical perspective, that that is in fact what happened, although I personally am inclined to believe that the child was Joseph's because he still agreed to marry her, even knowing she was pregnant, whereas if it were the child of a Roman soldier, he could easily have had her stoned to death and picked another woman to marry.


It might still been a matter of saving face... letting people know that your soon to be wife, had hots for the solders over you.. Not something you want the people talking about.

Than there is the rape factor.. she might have been raped, or said she was, him still loving her would stick with her after that..

Story of sun of god might of came from the child mind him self wile trying to know who his father was.


True, that is equally plausible. I suppose we never can know. As far as the son of god aspect, we also don't know whether Jesus in fact believed that. He may not have believed it, and said it to gain followers. It may well have been worth it to be worshipped, as well as fed,clothed, and sheltered while traveling, by people who believed that he was the Messiah.


There many a conman a running around at that time, a few who even called them selves the Messiah.
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Posted 1/20/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


madlibbs wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


madlibbs wrote:

Any record from around that time, especially about a religion that has since been widely followed and is therefore a very personal subject for many, would have passed through many hands before reaching readers today (this goes for both the sources mentioned and the bible). Therefore, I would be hesitant to draw any conclusions based on such sources.

Having said that, it is quite plausible, from a logical perspective, that that is in fact what happened, although I personally am inclined to believe that the child was Joseph's because he still agreed to marry her, even knowing she was pregnant, whereas if it were the child of a Roman soldier, he could easily have had her stoned to death and picked another woman to marry.


It might still been a matter of saving face... letting people know that your soon to be wife, had hots for the solders over you.. Not something you want the people talking about.

Than there is the rape factor.. she might have been raped, or said she was, him still loving her would stick with her after that..

Story of sun of god might of came from the child mind him self wile trying to know who his father was.


True, that is equally plausible. I suppose we never can know. As far as the son of god aspect, we also don't know whether Jesus in fact believed that. He may not have believed it, and said it to gain followers. It may well have been worth it to be worshipped, as well as fed,clothed, and sheltered while traveling, by people who believed that he was the Messiah.


There many a conman a running around at that time, a few who even called them selves the Messiah.


Of course. There were quite a few documented self-proclaimed Messiahs at that time, and there may have been even more that we haven't heard of. The number of Messiahs popping up everywhere at that time was due to the conditions that the Jews were living in at the time - they were not exactly thrilled about the Roman rule in place at the time, which accounts for the fact that they were more than willing to listen to someone who would tell them that God would reward them in the end (regardless of whether they were right).
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Posted 2/15/10 , edited 2/16/10
Since you want historical evidence of the existence of Jesus:

http://factreal.wordpress.com/2009/04/13/nonchristians-prove-jesus-resurrection/

http://www.roman-empire.net/religion/religion.html

As per your original question about the claim that a Roman was Jesus' father, this does not line up with most of the information available about Jesus. It is not true that your information is the ONLY quote that mentions Jesus by name (check first link). And as another person stated, Jesus was a very common name since it is a derivative of Joshua. The information that is in the first link posted gives specific details along with his name that coincide with the New Testament account. The idea that Jesus had a Roman father is particularly questionable because Jesus is not mentioned as having been rejected as a half-breed. He was accused of being born out of wedlock, but not of being a half-breed. This is important because Jews were very jealous of the purity of their race. A devout Jew would walk far out of his way to avoid Samaria (the section of Israel made up of half-breeds -- those children who resulted of the people left behind during the Babylonian captivity who intermingled with the surrounding nations) which was right in the middle of the country during that time period. His words would not have even been considered by the Pharisees had he been anything other than fully Jewish.

On a side note I find it very interesting that the Jews do not deny the existence of Jesus. They vehemently oppose him and viciously malign him in their ancient writings, but they do not deny that he was anyone other than a real person. I find it surprising that rabbinical students are required to take a course on his leadership skills -- considering that many modern day "scholars" claim that he did not exist. (http://www.hebrewcollege.edu/home-page-features#kosher-kavanah -- look for the section on "Share Texts, Build Trust").

Anyway, food for thought and all that.
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