Churches in Malaysia Fire-Bombed
17052 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Dreamland
Offline
Posted 1/8/10 , edited 1/8/10

KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – Unidentified attackers set fire to a church in Malaysia early Friday amid a growing conflict in the country over the use of the word "Allah" by non-Muslims, officials said.

Only the first floor office of the Metro Tabernacle Church was destroyed in the blaze that started a little after midnight Thursday, said church spokesman Kevin Ang. The worship areas on the upper two floors were undamaged, and there were no injuries.

The church is located in a three-story building on a shopping street in Desa Melawati, a suburb of Kuala Lumpur, the main city of this Muslim-majority country.

The attack on the Protestant church comes days after the Kuala Lumpur High Court struck down a 3-year-old ban on non-Muslims using the word "Allah" in their literature.

The government has appealed against the court verdict, which allowed a Catholic publication to use the common word for God in the Malay language, and the High Court has suspended its decision from being enforced until the appeal is heard.

Muslims argue that "Allah" is exclusive to Islam, and its use by Christians would confuse Muslims and tempt them to convert to Christianity.

The court decision has resulted in a rash of angry comments and threats by Muslims on the Internet. Dozens of Muslim groups are planning a protest against the court decision on Friday after weekly prayers. But it is apparently the first time the controversy turned destructive.

Kuala Lumpur police chief Mohamad Sabtu Osman told The Associated Press that it was premature to link the attack on the church to the protests over the Allah ban.

"We are still investigating," he said. He also urged Muslims not to participate in the planned protests, adding that police would be stationed at mosques to monitor the situation.

Another church official quoted a witness as saying she saw three or four men on a motorcycle breaking the main glass front of the church and throw something inside, possibly a gasoline bomb. The account could not be independently confirmed.

About 60 percent of Malaysia's 28 million people are Malay Muslims, while the rest are ethnic Chinese, Indians and indigenous tribes, who follow Christianity, Hinduism and other religions.

The High Court ruling was on a petition by the Herald, the main publication of Malaysia's Roman Catholic Church. It uses the word Allah in its Malay-language edition, which is read by the indigenous tribes in the remote states of Sabah and Sarawak.

The tribespeople are Malay-speaking, so Catholic officials say "Allah" is the only word they know for God.

But many Muslims in Malaysia have refused to accept the argument that "Allah" is an Arabic word that predates Islam, and that it is used by Christians in countries such as Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Indonesia regularly in their worship.

The backlash against the court verdict has reinforced complaints by religious minorities in Malaysia that they face institutional discrimination by the government.

On Thursday, the Malaysian judiciary's Web site was hacked and defaced with an apparent threat to Christians, the Star newspaper reported. The site, however, appeared to be normal on Friday.

The Star said the hacker, using the alias "Brainwash," defaced the site with a banner saying: "Mess with the best, die like the rest" and "Allah only restricted to Muslim only."


Sources :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100107/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_allah_ban_3
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1029280/1/.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126289016920120061.html?mod=WSJASIA_hps_LEFTTopStoriesWhatsNews
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/48906-pj-catholic-church-attacked

To the mods, if there is already a topic on this, feel free to lock. I searched but found none, or maybe I missed them if there are any.

'Allah' is a term in Arab which is defined as God. Recently, Herald, a newsletter published by the Roman Catholic Church, had attained permission from the High Court to use the word 'Allah' as there is no purpose regarding why the word should be banned. However, the Muslims in the country, most of them, denied this and says that 'Allah' is only for Islam. After gaining the permission (as said earlier) to use the word 'Allah' in the Herald publications, the Government applied for a stay of execution. The Roman Catholic Church agreed to it.

The fact is, the Arabic term 'Allah' has been used for a long time by people all over the world. In Malaysia, the ones who are against it acts as the fact does not exist and they copyrighted the term as well - resulting in conflicts which are still ongoing in the country.

What the result of the High Court doesn't matter, but I want people's opinions on these people who have torched churches. There are no clues that the four people were Muslims, and I believe that Islam is a great religion and every religion teaches good things. Regardless who these people are, who burned the church, what do you think about them? Or how they should be punished?
324 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F
Offline
Posted 1/8/10
probably the work of extremists, simple-minded! but we dont knw that yet.
an extremist was never being regarded as a Muslim since Islam teaches us to be moderate, respect others as well as others' worship-place. bombing/ violence, this is definitely not the way we use to show our objection.

'ALLAH'
...Muslims believe in Allah the Only God for all mankind which means we believe that whatever religion u r, U worship the same God BUT that DOES NOT mean we approve of the Transcendental Unity of Religions which suggests all religions are the same. this is bcz Islam is the ONLY way of life, the ONLY truth besides Allah. even though we know Christians do their prayers upon the same God but THEY BELIEVE IN TRINITY which has divided god into numbers. that doesnt approve the Church can use the word 'Allah' since the meaning is not the same.
i can say this has not only created confusion among Muslims but among Christians too.

*i'm not intending to offend anybody, please excuse my simple language
17052 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Dreamland
Offline
Posted 1/8/10
@oredah

I think that is the confusion we all have - that the Trinity represents 3 Gods. No, its only ONE. Not two, not three. Its hard to explain. Anyway, before we get out of topic, my main point here is that to reveal what certain people do, or how they react when met with challenges especially involving sensitive issues.

I believe Islam and all other religions teaches good things, but these people, Muslim or not, are just too much. Burning down a house is bad enough. Now, burning where God resides..don't you think that they just crossed their limits?

P/S : My thread is reported lol wonder why..too sensitive probably.
Posted 1/8/10

Deltadestiny wrote:

@oredah

I think that is the confusion we all have - that the Trinity represents 3 Gods. No, its only ONE. Not two, not three. Its hard to explain. Anyway, before we get out of topic, my main point here is that to reveal what certain people do, or how they react when met with challenges especially involving sensitive issues.

I believe Islam and all other religions teaches good things, but these people, Muslim or not, are just too much. Burning down a house is bad enough. Now, burning where God resides..don't you think that they just crossed their limits?

P/S : My thread is reported lol wonder why..too sensitive probably.

I reported your thread because you only managed to copy-and-paste a news article, without you discuss any cognitive thoughts or complex feelings in your topic. Just a general "so what do you think" inquiry does not meet the standard of Extended Discussion Forum, when you have not an ounce of originality to show that you indeed have extensive insight to discuss.

Therefore the problem isn't that this is indeed a sensitive issue, but your general lack of sense of direction for an actual discussion.

Now, back to your original discussion, which is your "belief" that these radical extremists often overreacted to radical idea or extreme concept like the existence of an universal God. Well unless you think that it is possible for rational people to behave radically extreme, you're right to believe that these radical extremists only just crossed their limit this time. Even though a belief is just a hypothesis without proofs that it's actually right.
8742 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Scotland, Aberdeen
Offline
Posted 1/8/10 , edited 1/8/10
They burnt down a place which is a house for brainwashing people. I accuse those of both persuasions of creating this undesirable situation. Yes, I blame religion for loss and injury. Both religions, in fact.
17052 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Dreamland
Offline
Posted 1/8/10

DomFortress wrote:

I reported your thread because you only managed to copy-and-paste a news article, without you discuss any cognitive thoughts or complex feelings in your topic. Just a general "so what do you think" inquiry does not meet the standard of Extended Discussion Forum, when you have not an ounce of originality to show that you indeed have extensive insight to discuss.

Therefore the problem isn't that this is indeed a sensitive issue, but your general lack of sense of direction for an actual discussion.

Now, back to your original discussion, which is your "belief" that these radical extremists often overreacted to radical idea or extreme concept like the existence of an universal God. Well unless you think that it is possible for rational people to behave radically extreme, you're right to believe that these radical extremists only just crossed their limit this time. Even though a belief is just a hypothesis without proofs that it's actually right.


Ah, I must thank you then for reminding me. I admit I have forgotten that one important thing to include. I'll edit the first post in a while then.

Back to topic, I do not know if they are radical extremists or first time offenders, whether they are Muslims, Christians or a third party. They obviously cannot come to a mutual understanding with the Christian side. The Roman Catholic Church wishes to use the word 'Allah' in the Herald, and that is all they ask for. When the High Court lifted the ban which was set a few years ago, many of the Muslims are disappointed and angry. After some side-searching, it revealed that they have really misunderstood the original intention of using the word 'Allah' in the Herald by stating that it will be used to stray young Muslims away from Islam, which I believe isn't true at all.

Again, thank you for telling me about my lack of point of direction.
Posted 1/8/10

Deltadestiny wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

I reported your thread because you only managed to copy-and-paste a news article, without you discuss any cognitive thoughts or complex feelings in your topic. Just a general "so what do you think" inquiry does not meet the standard of Extended Discussion Forum, when you have not an ounce of originality to show that you indeed have extensive insight to discuss.

Therefore the problem isn't that this is indeed a sensitive issue, but your general lack of sense of direction for an actual discussion.

Now, back to your original discussion, which is your "belief" that these radical extremists often overreacted to radical idea or extreme concept like the existence of an universal God. Well unless you think that it is possible for rational people to behave radically extreme, you're right to believe that these radical extremists only just crossed their limit this time. Even though a belief is just a hypothesis without proofs that it's actually right.


Ah, I must thank you then for reminding me. I admit I have forgotten that one important thing to include. I'll edit the first post in a while then.

Back to topic, I do not know if they are radical extremists or first time offenders, whether they are Muslims, Christians or a third party. They obviously cannot come to a mutual understanding with the Christian side. The Roman Catholic Church wishes to use the word 'Allah' in the Herald, and that is all they ask for. When the High Court lifted the ban which was set a few years ago, many of the Muslims are disappointed and angry. After some side-searching, it revealed that they have really misunderstood the original intention of using the word 'Allah' in the Herald by stating that it will be used to stray young Muslims away from Islam, which I believe isn't true at all.

Again, thank you for telling me about my lack of point of direction.

You're welcome. And now that there's a direction where your discussion is going, I would revisit once I finished with me posting my very own topic.
20924 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Singapore
Offline
Posted 1/9/10

Deltadestiny wrote:


KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – Unidentified attackers set fire to a church in Malaysia early Friday amid a growing conflict in the country over the use of the word "Allah" by non-Muslims, officials said.

Only the first floor office of the Metro Tabernacle Church was destroyed in the blaze that started a little after midnight Thursday, said church spokesman Kevin Ang. The worship areas on the upper two floors were undamaged, and there were no injuries.

The church is located in a three-story building on a shopping street in Desa Melawati, a suburb of Kuala Lumpur, the main city of this Muslim-majority country.

The attack on the Protestant church comes days after the Kuala Lumpur High Court struck down a 3-year-old ban on non-Muslims using the word "Allah" in their literature.

The government has appealed against the court verdict, which allowed a Catholic publication to use the common word for God in the Malay language, and the High Court has suspended its decision from being enforced until the appeal is heard.

Muslims argue that "Allah" is exclusive to Islam, and its use by Christians would confuse Muslims and tempt them to convert to Christianity.

The court decision has resulted in a rash of angry comments and threats by Muslims on the Internet. Dozens of Muslim groups are planning a protest against the court decision on Friday after weekly prayers. But it is apparently the first time the controversy turned destructive.

Kuala Lumpur police chief Mohamad Sabtu Osman told The Associated Press that it was premature to link the attack on the church to the protests over the Allah ban.

"We are still investigating," he said. He also urged Muslims not to participate in the planned protests, adding that police would be stationed at mosques to monitor the situation.

Another church official quoted a witness as saying she saw three or four men on a motorcycle breaking the main glass front of the church and throw something inside, possibly a gasoline bomb. The account could not be independently confirmed.

About 60 percent of Malaysia's 28 million people are Malay Muslims, while the rest are ethnic Chinese, Indians and indigenous tribes, who follow Christianity, Hinduism and other religions.

The High Court ruling was on a petition by the Herald, the main publication of Malaysia's Roman Catholic Church. It uses the word Allah in its Malay-language edition, which is read by the indigenous tribes in the remote states of Sabah and Sarawak.

The tribespeople are Malay-speaking, so Catholic officials say "Allah" is the only word they know for God.

But many Muslims in Malaysia have refused to accept the argument that "Allah" is an Arabic word that predates Islam, and that it is used by Christians in countries such as Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Indonesia regularly in their worship.

The backlash against the court verdict has reinforced complaints by religious minorities in Malaysia that they face institutional discrimination by the government.

On Thursday, the Malaysian judiciary's Web site was hacked and defaced with an apparent threat to Christians, the Star newspaper reported. The site, however, appeared to be normal on Friday.

The Star said the hacker, using the alias "Brainwash," defaced the site with a banner saying: "Mess with the best, die like the rest" and "Allah only restricted to Muslim only."


Sources :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100107/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_allah_ban_3
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1029280/1/.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126289016920120061.html?mod=WSJASIA_hps_LEFTTopStoriesWhatsNews
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/48906-pj-catholic-church-attacked

To the mods, if there is already a topic on this, feel free to lock. I searched but found none, or maybe I missed them if there are any.

'Allah' is a term in Arab which is defined as God. Recently, Herald, a newsletter published by the Roman Catholic Church, had attained permission from the High Court to use the word 'Allah' as there is no purpose regarding why the word should be banned. However, the Muslims in the country, most of them, denied this and says that 'Allah' is only for Islam. After gaining the permission (as said earlier) to use the word 'Allah' in the Herald publications, the Government applied for a stay of execution. The Roman Catholic Church agreed to it.

The fact is, the Arabic term 'Allah' has been used for a long time by people all over the world. In Malaysia, the ones who are against it acts as the fact does not exist and they copyrighted the term as well - resulting in conflicts which are still ongoing in the country.

What the result of the High Court doesn't matter, but I want people's opinions on these people who have torched churches. There are no clues that the four people were Muslims, and I believe that Islam is a great religion and every religion teaches good things. Regardless who these people are, who burned the church, what do you think about them? Or how they should be punished?


The moderate Muslims in Malaysia are against the torching of churches including myself. Just to let you know that. And if you ask me how did i get the info from, well i guess im live in Singapore.
17052 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Dreamland
Offline
Posted 1/9/10

azera wrote:

The moderate Muslims in Malaysia are against the torching of churches including myself. Just to let you know that. And if you ask me how did i get the info from, well i guess im live in Singapore.


I am shocked by this incident too. I've always thought Malaysians lived in harmony with one another. I am pretty sure almost everyone there is against violence, Christians and Muslims, as both religions teach good things.
5454 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / World Heritage Si...
Offline
Posted 1/10/10

Deltadestiny wrote:


azera wrote:

The moderate Muslims in Malaysia are against the torching of churches including myself. Just to let you know that. And if you ask me how did i get the info from, well i guess im live in Singapore.


I am shocked by this incident too. I've always thought Malaysians lived in harmony with one another. I am pretty sure almost everyone there is against violence, Christians and Muslims, as both religions teach good things.


I think we are not living harmony. I mean sometimes we still complaining others races, stereotype them. But, we don't go hurting each other.

Back to topic,
Some uneducated human beings tend to solve problems by creating more problems. This is how they roll.
4302 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
forgot where
Offline
Posted 1/24/10

Deltadestiny wrote:


KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia – Unidentified attackers set fire to a church in Malaysia early Friday amid a growing conflict in the country over the use of the word "Allah" by non-Muslims, officials said.

Only the first floor office of the Metro Tabernacle Church was destroyed in the blaze that started a little after midnight Thursday, said church spokesman Kevin Ang. The worship areas on the upper two floors were undamaged, and there were no injuries.

The church is located in a three-story building on a shopping street in Desa Melawati, a suburb of Kuala Lumpur, the main city of this Muslim-majority country.

The attack on the Protestant church comes days after the Kuala Lumpur High Court struck down a 3-year-old ban on non-Muslims using the word "Allah" in their literature.

The government has appealed against the court verdict, which allowed a Catholic publication to use the common word for God in the Malay language, and the High Court has suspended its decision from being enforced until the appeal is heard.

Muslims argue that "Allah" is exclusive to Islam, and its use by Christians would confuse Muslims and tempt them to convert to Christianity.

The court decision has resulted in a rash of angry comments and threats by Muslims on the Internet. Dozens of Muslim groups are planning a protest against the court decision on Friday after weekly prayers. But it is apparently the first time the controversy turned destructive.

Kuala Lumpur police chief Mohamad Sabtu Osman told The Associated Press that it was premature to link the attack on the church to the protests over the Allah ban.

"We are still investigating," he said. He also urged Muslims not to participate in the planned protests, adding that police would be stationed at mosques to monitor the situation.

Another church official quoted a witness as saying she saw three or four men on a motorcycle breaking the main glass front of the church and throw something inside, possibly a gasoline bomb. The account could not be independently confirmed.

About 60 percent of Malaysia's 28 million people are Malay Muslims, while the rest are ethnic Chinese, Indians and indigenous tribes, who follow Christianity, Hinduism and other religions.

The High Court ruling was on a petition by the Herald, the main publication of Malaysia's Roman Catholic Church. It uses the word Allah in its Malay-language edition, which is read by the indigenous tribes in the remote states of Sabah and Sarawak.

The tribespeople are Malay-speaking, so Catholic officials say "Allah" is the only word they know for God.

But many Muslims in Malaysia have refused to accept the argument that "Allah" is an Arabic word that predates Islam, and that it is used by Christians in countries such as Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Indonesia regularly in their worship.

The backlash against the court verdict has reinforced complaints by religious minorities in Malaysia that they face institutional discrimination by the government.

On Thursday, the Malaysian judiciary's Web site was hacked and defaced with an apparent threat to Christians, the Star newspaper reported. The site, however, appeared to be normal on Friday.

The Star said the hacker, using the alias "Brainwash," defaced the site with a banner saying: "Mess with the best, die like the rest" and "Allah only restricted to Muslim only."


Sources :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100107/ap_on_re_as/as_malaysia_allah_ban_3
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1029280/1/.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126289016920120061.html?mod=WSJASIA_hps_LEFTTopStoriesWhatsNews
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/48906-pj-catholic-church-attacked

To the mods, if there is already a topic on this, feel free to lock. I searched but found none, or maybe I missed them if there are any.

'Allah' is a term in Arab which is defined as God. Recently, Herald, a newsletter published by the Roman Catholic Church, had attained permission from the High Court to use the word 'Allah' as there is no purpose regarding why the word should be banned. However, the Muslims in the country, most of them, denied this and says that 'Allah' is only for Islam. After gaining the permission (as said earlier) to use the word 'Allah' in the Herald publications, the Government applied for a stay of execution. The Roman Catholic Church agreed to it.

The fact is, the Arabic term 'Allah' has been used for a long time by people all over the world. In Malaysia, the ones who are against it acts as the fact does not exist and they copyrighted the term as well - resulting in conflicts which are still ongoing in the country.

What the result of the High Court doesn't matter, but I want people's opinions on these people who have torched churches. There are no clues that the four people were Muslims, and I believe that Islam is a great religion and every religion teaches good things. Regardless who these people are, who burned the church, what do you think about them? Or how they should be punished?


This is what i think should happen...have a war...between the christians and the muslims...the winner will determine who can and cant use the term "Allah". And with a war, the aggreement will be solid.After a huge war, there will at last be peace. And when the peace disappears, have another war to create more peace. From the ashes of war will rise peace. Life can only come about through death and destruction.the road to brotherhood is always paved with blood.

Or have a martial arts tournament...but the war thing has a much larger and defined effect (its cooler to)-A profound metamorphises if u will...spiritual awakening...enlightenment. The war will serve as a wake up call, punishment, agreement terms, and a new beginning for both parties. Tournament will just soften thier image and serve as a basis for agreement terms in the leasts...peace over war
Posted 1/25/10

JJT2 wrote:



This is what i think should happen...have a war...between the christians and the muslims...the winner will determine who can and cant use the term "Allah". And with a war, the aggreement will be solid.After a huge war, there will at last be peace. And when the peace disappears, have another war to create more peace. From the ashes of war will rise peace. Life can only come about through death and destruction.the road to brotherhood is always paved with blood.

Or have a martial arts tournament...but the war thing has a much larger and defined effect (its cooler to)-A profound metamorphises if u will...spiritual awakening...enlightenment. The war will serve as a wake up call, punishment, agreement terms, and a new beginning for both parties. Tournament will just soften thier image and serve as a basis for agreement terms in the leasts...peace over war
So I heard that you like war.

The only problem is that while those radically extreme Muslims are more than willing to raise Hell on Earth, they're not much of an army than they're actually a terrorist organization. Therefore even if the Christians can raise their own army and bring forth another Holy War, they don't have a theater of war when their army aren't facing another army. But rather multiple terrorist insurgences of gorilla warfare.

So I'll second your proposal of having a Holy martial arts tournament. Holy Fight! Ready~~ GO!

And you know how serious I can be when I'm having fun.
45 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M / Singapore
Offline
Posted 5/27/10
I live in Singapore and I am a Christian, but why I feel that a religion war will happen like in 20 year's time?

Everyone believes in different things, but killing each other because of religion will be like fighting over whose imaginary friend is better.

I just can't let Singapore be in danger, in 20 years time, if Malaysia gets controlled by those "Muslims" who are real sinners, Singapore will destroy them.

I totally loooooooooove Singapore, and Malaysia... to a certain extent.
55088 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
52 / F / Atlanta GA
Online
Posted 5/27/10 , edited 5/27/10
What is the point, that Islam became one of the largest religions threw violence and intimidation. That was all Mohammad doing. The crusade did not happen fast enough to put that nut job down. Follow me I can trace my heritage back 9000 year I am the offspring of the bastard son of, so an so. I am the last clown god is going to send down to point you in the right way to live. You will learn through pray to brain wash yourself. You can kill in my name take what is not yours. You can make contract with the heathen as long as it good for you, if it comes to harming you do not have to honor it. Sing treaty there not god law so breaking is not a problem. Islam what dogma,
Posted 5/27/10
so i guess they died in holy flames... god that was aful
You must be logged in to post.