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Manufacturing Consent
Posted 1/22/10

jandarujora wrote:

Dom, I think you missed the point of the whole topic.
This coming from someone who claims to believe in a "pipe dream" scenario? Now that's sarcasm.


Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Then why are you still think that I'm a nice guy? When "nice guy finishes last".


This is the type of thing I'm talking about, I always have trouble understanding some of your points and I can't tell if you're being serious or not.



BTW, you're not the first one who came at me with this whole "English as a second language" ad hominem argument. Therefore while once again your approach lacks originality and careful planning.


That's not an ad hominem argument, because it isn't even an argument.

"Therefore" isn't used properly, and the sentence is incomplete. I don't understand what you're talking about, "originality" "careful planning''? This is a discussion, not a circus act.


You still couldn't see that you're just doing the same thing like the rich manipulating the masses using mass-medias, in order to manufacture majority consent on laws that will favor the rich. By you applying the very same concept of you trying to manipulate me using the internet forum, in order to manufacture my individual consent on an issue that will favor your bias opinions about either my English language skill, or the US for that matter.


No one's being manipulated. It's a discussion on manufacturing consent. Which you don't fully understand yet. I'm not manufacturing consent, I don't need you're consent.

All I ask is that you fully understand this concept before trying to respond to the topic, and not go into some random irrelevant nonsense to try to sound like you're saying something meaningful. Now there's a variety of ways for you to try to understand the concept well, you can figure out a good way for yourself. Maybe some sort of documentary or book on the subject, or do your own research starting from the 1950s until now, idk, you decide for yourself.
You can't tell if I was being serious? When you don't even need my consent, while you still keep pleading me to "understand the concept" with "documentary or book on the subject".

You still don't get it now, do you? That ever since here, I've been demonstrating my understanding on how the concept of manipulating individuals in order to manufacture consent works. By me manipulating you through my "circus act" on your own forum topic. While you raised your concern about my English as second language skill here, and now you claimed that's not even an argument about your own topic.

I think you own me an explanation for your lack of composure, direction, as well as understanding. When you somehow failed to understand my first reply to your topic.
Posted 1/22/10

DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Dom, I think you missed the point of the whole topic.
This coming from someone who claims to believe in a "pipe dream" scenario? Now that's sarcasm.


Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Then why are you still think that I'm a nice guy? When "nice guy finishes last".


This is the type of thing I'm talking about, I always have trouble understanding some of your points and I can't tell if you're being serious or not.



BTW, you're not the first one who came at me with this whole "English as a second language" ad hominem argument. Therefore while once again your approach lacks originality and careful planning.


That's not an ad hominem argument, because it isn't even an argument.

"Therefore" isn't used properly, and the sentence is incomplete. I don't understand what you're talking about, "originality" "careful planning''? This is a discussion, not a circus act.


You still couldn't see that you're just doing the same thing like the rich manipulating the masses using mass-medias, in order to manufacture majority consent on laws that will favor the rich. By you applying the very same concept of you trying to manipulate me using the internet forum, in order to manufacture my individual consent on an issue that will favor your bias opinions about either my English language skill, or the US for that matter.


No one's being manipulated. It's a discussion on manufacturing consent. Which you don't fully understand yet. I'm not manufacturing consent, I don't need you're consent.

All I ask is that you fully understand this concept before trying to respond to the topic, and not go into some random irrelevant nonsense to try to sound like you're saying something meaningful. Now there's a variety of ways for you to try to understand the concept well, you can figure out a good way for yourself. Maybe some sort of documentary or book on the subject, or do your own research starting from the 1950s until now, idk, you decide for yourself.
You can't tell if I was being serious? When you don't even need my consent, while you still keep pleading me to "understand the concept" with "documentary or book on the subject".

You still don't get it now, do you? That ever since here, I've been demonstrating my understanding on how the concept of manipulating individuals in order to manufacture consent works. By me manipulating you through my "circus act" on your own forum topic. While you raised your concern about my English as second language skill here, and now you claimed that's not even an argument about your own topic.

I think you own me an explanation for your lack of composure, direction, as well as understanding. When you somehow failed to understand my first reply to your topic.


I was only giving my input to the point of the topic being discussed. What was so bothersome about the "pipe dream" comment anyway? Was there something you misunderstood or is unclear?

Posted 1/22/10

jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Dom, I think you missed the point of the whole topic.
This coming from someone who claims to believe in a "pipe dream" scenario? Now that's sarcasm.


I was only giving my input to the point of the topic being discussed. What was so bothersome about the "pipe dream" comment anyway? Was there something you misunderstood or is unclear?
I just want to point out that it's sarcastic for you to claim that I missed the point of topic, while you believe on a pipe-dream. I mean how do you see the world with that narrow focus?
Posted 1/23/10 , edited 1/23/10

DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Dom, I think you missed the point of the whole topic.
This coming from someone who claims to believe in a "pipe dream" scenario? Now that's sarcasm.


I was only giving my input to the point of the topic being discussed. What was so bothersome about the "pipe dream" comment anyway? Was there something you misunderstood or is unclear?
I just want to point out that it's sarcastic for you to claim that I missed the point of topic, while you believe on a pipe-dream. I mean how do you see the world with that narrow focus?


Do you even know what I meant when I said "pipe dream" in regards to the topic? I apologize if I wasn't very clear or concise, but I don't think you understood so I'd like to know what you think I meant because you're accusing me of being sarcastic and narrow.





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Posted 1/23/10
This thread had potential, and you guys ruined it. Thanks a lot.
Posted 1/23/10 , edited 1/23/10
Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...


leviathan343 wrote:

I do believe in the first concept discussed in the series: that all people are not fundamentally equal and that a specialized few should be the leaders of the majority. But this viewpoint almost always depicts the ordinary man as a complete moron, which is the complete opposite of reality. It's also ironic that the public ignorance is largely produced by the very people who criticize that ignorance. It's importance not to fool yourself into believing in conspiracies or shadow governments over this kind of stuff. It's implicit ideas in the upper echelons of powers that every politician and powerful individual accepts, many without realizing it.


There is no conspiracy here because the problems are right there out in the open. It's just a matter of realizing it. No one is fooling anyone. I'm certainly not trying to fool anyone. I do agree with you that a specialized few should lead the majority, but unfortunately for the US the "leadership" shifted into the wrong hands. And no, the ordinary man is not a complete moron. The ordinary people of the US are not morons per say, they're just ignorant because they're made to be ignorant. They are not the ones to blame. The original question was about corporatism in America and its heavy reliance on propaganda and ignorance to keep the masses in line as to not get in their way.

What do you know about the Federal Reserve? If you don't know anything about it, it's because they don't want you to know about it. There's a reason why it isn't taught in schools and while many states make appeals to reduce its power or get rid of it altogether, there's hardly any press coverage about it. They don't want the US population to expose their way of doing business and demand change. These are the few hundred or so bankers who own and control the powerful corporations, especially those who are listed in the Fortune 500, who make all the important decisions, engineer the cultural and economic trends, control the national debt, and own the government and therefore the country.

Not many people will comment on this topic because they're completely unaware of how corporatism works in America. They don't know that they're continuously paying vast amounts of interest on their own currency, or that their federal income taxes are being used to stabilize Wall Street and bring enormous wealth to the corporate owners and stockholders. Wall Street collected billions of dollars in BONUSES alone, even if a business was on the verge of bankruptcy. In the meanwhile, more than 40 of the 50 states have risen in unemployment. More than half the people I personally know have been laid off or unemployed. For those that landed a job they work painfully long hours for decreased pay and reduced benefits. Companies are driven into bankruptcy, merges, or bought out, etc. I think things will just get worse from here.

All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.


Posted 1/23/10

jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.
Posted 1/23/10

DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.


If you don't understand how the central banking system operates in the US (and how that eventually leads to corporate favoritism and thus mass ignorance to keep their system running) then you won't understand why the ordinary people haven't been able to help themselves out of the situation. The selfish rich persons in control don't want ordinary people to wise up and find a way out. Yes there are solutions and I never said there weren't any. The reality of things must be exposed to the public first before the solutions can be enacted, which I've been attempting to do here.
Posted 1/23/10

jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.


If you don't understand how the central banking system operates in the US (and how that eventually leads to corporate favoritism and thus mass ignorance to keep their system running) then you won't understand why the ordinary people haven't been able to help themselves out of the situation. The selfish rich persons in control don't want ordinary people to wise up and find a way out. Yes there are solutions and I never said there weren't any. The reality of things must be exposed to the public first before the solutions can be enacted, which I've been attempting to do here.
Individual enlightenment isn't gained from repeated exposure of the same fact, but rather it's obtained from within our own individual self-awareness. Therefore the more you enforcing your concepts and ideals on ordinary people, you are subsequently preventing them from reaching their own enlightenment. In the end, what you ended up doing to the people is exactly the same as any selfish rich person.
Posted 1/23/10 , edited 1/23/10

DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.


If you don't understand how the central banking system operates in the US (and how that eventually leads to corporate favoritism and thus mass ignorance to keep their system running) then you won't understand why the ordinary people haven't been able to help themselves out of the situation. The selfish rich persons in control don't want ordinary people to wise up and find a way out. Yes there are solutions and I never said there weren't any. The reality of things must be exposed to the public first before the solutions can be enacted, which I've been attempting to do here.
Individual enlightenment isn't gained from repeated exposure of the same fact, but rather it's obtained from within our own individual self-awareness. Therefore the more you enforcing your concepts and ideals on ordinary people, you are subsequently preventing them from reaching their own enlightenment. In the end, what you ended up doing to the people is exactly the same as any selfish rich person.


Whatever. I believe I experienced enough personally in this country to warrant this justifiable, as well as the friends and family who continuously must serve this cutthroat corporate machine that favors the bankers over grass roots America. I did not believe any of this until I was involved in an insurance company lawsuit which accused me of completely fabricated unevidenced claims and the courts ruled in favor of those companies and then soon found out other good-standing citizens with similar issues. These aren't just MY concepts. To say I'm enforcing is an overstatement because I'm presenting what I've experienced and what I've researched and it's up to the reader how they want to take it. This is a discussion board on a community site after all.

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Posted 1/23/10

DomFortress wrote:

You can't tell if I was being serious? When you don't even need my consent, while you still keep pleading me to "understand the concept" with "documentary or book on the subject".

You still don't get it now, do you? That ever since here, I've been demonstrating my understanding on how the concept of manipulating individuals in order to manufacture consent works. By me manipulating you through my "circus act" on your own forum topic. While you raised your concern about my English as second language skill here, and now you claimed that's not even an argument about your own topic.

I think you own me an explanation for your lack of composure, direction, as well as understanding. When you somehow failed to understand my first reply to your topic.


You're not being serious, are you? I think you're just trying to have some fun now. That would explain a lot.
Posted 1/23/10

jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.


If you don't understand how the central banking system operates in the US (and how that eventually leads to corporate favoritism and thus mass ignorance to keep their system running) then you won't understand why the ordinary people haven't been able to help themselves out of the situation. The selfish rich persons in control don't want ordinary people to wise up and find a way out. Yes there are solutions and I never said there weren't any. The reality of things must be exposed to the public first before the solutions can be enacted, which I've been attempting to do here.
Individual enlightenment isn't gained from repeated exposure of the same fact, but rather it's obtained from within our own individual self-awareness. Therefore the more you enforcing your concepts and ideals on ordinary people, you are subsequently preventing them from reaching their own enlightenment. In the end, what you ended up doing to the people is exactly the same as any selfish rich person.


Whatever. I believe I experienced enough personally in this country to warrant this justifiable, as well as the friends and family who continuously must serve this cutthroat corporate machine that favors the bankers over grass roots America. I did not believe any of this until I was involved in an insurance company lawsuit which accused me of completely fabricated unevidenced claims and the courts ruled in favor of those companies and then soon found out other good-standing citizens with similar issues. These aren't just MY concepts. To say I'm enforcing is an overstatement because I'm presenting what I've experienced and what I've researched and it's up to the reader how they want to take it. This is a discussion board on a community site after all.
Now you're finally making sense. When true wisdom based on original thoughts and feelings, is gained from real personal experiences.

Until then, all your readers will be getting is the impression that you're giving them. Whereas discussion involves collaboration, and this is why the internet forum is the most effective media platform known to men. However, it still requires real interactions and honesty among individuals to reach mutual understanding. Not humbleness.


Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You can't tell if I was being serious? When you don't even need my consent, while you still keep pleading me to "understand the concept" with "documentary or book on the subject".

You still don't get it now, do you? That ever since here, I've been demonstrating my understanding on how the concept of manipulating individuals in order to manufacture consent works. By me manipulating you through my "circus act" on your own forum topic. While you raised your concern about my English as second language skill here, and now you claimed that's not even an argument about your own topic.

I think you own me an explanation for your lack of composure, direction, as well as understanding. When you somehow failed to understand my first reply to your topic.


You're not being serious, are you? I think you're just trying to have some fun now. That would explain a lot.
Nope, I am having fun whenever I'm being serious. That's the only way I know how to be honest with myself.
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Posted 1/23/10

Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You can't tell if I was being serious? When you don't even need my consent, while you still keep pleading me to "understand the concept" with "documentary or book on the subject".

You still don't get it now, do you? That ever since here, I've been demonstrating my understanding on how the concept of manipulating individuals in order to manufacture consent works. By me manipulating you through my "circus act" on your own forum topic. While you raised your concern about my English as second language skill here, and now you claimed that's not even an argument about your own topic.

I think you own me an explanation for your lack of composure, direction, as well as understanding. When you somehow failed to understand my first reply to your topic.


You're not being serious, are you? I think you're just trying to have some fun now. That would explain a lot.


Let me explain what Dom-somthing is trying to say. He is trying to explain that if evil corporations r controling america through media manpulation, then u r trying to do the same thing by controlling americans through media manipulation. You just believe that your right and the corporations r wrong.

Then Dom goes on to say that the "true" path to enlightenment is through individual introspection (mediatation), and not through the sharing of information (AKA "brainwashing").

And he is being serious... and yur right about it being off topic, irrelavent, hard to understand, and a rather pointless position to take on the grand scheme of things...peace over war
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Posted 1/23/10 , edited 1/23/10

DomFortress wrote:

Nope, I am having fun whenever I'm being serious. That's the only way I know how to be honest with myself.


If you're being serious then I don't know what to say.

Honest with yourself?

You came into the topic not understanding what the words in the title meant. But you go ahead and post random irrelevant ideas and try to sound smart by using big words and unnecessarily complex sentences, even though your English isn't up to par, which makes things very difficult to go through. Then you realize you don't even know what the topic is about and quickly try to come up with more random irrelevant and very, very strange ideas, and use terms you don't understand. And it's just a downward spiral until it's just too ridiculous for me to respond anymore.

I think you come up with your ideas not because they are relevant and make sense, but just for the sake of having a seemingly smart idea. And it usually backfires. And not just in this topic, I've noticed this in a lot of topics. Part of this whole "I'm a professional sociologist and a serious free thinker" facade.

That's not being honest with yourself.
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Posted 1/23/10

DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.


If you don't understand how the central banking system operates in the US (and how that eventually leads to corporate favoritism and thus mass ignorance to keep their system running) then you won't understand why the ordinary people haven't been able to help themselves out of the situation. The selfish rich persons in control don't want ordinary people to wise up and find a way out. Yes there are solutions and I never said there weren't any. The reality of things must be exposed to the public first before the solutions can be enacted, which I've been attempting to do here.
Individual enlightenment isn't gained from repeated exposure of the same fact, but rather it's obtained from within our own individual self-awareness. Therefore the more you enforcing your concepts and ideals on ordinary people, you are subsequently preventing them from reaching their own enlightenment. In the end, what you ended up doing to the people is exactly the same as any selfish rich person.


What i want to get, is how does enlightenment sovle this "issue" of "evil" corrborations taking over America? A group of people doing too much thinking doesnt get any more done then a group of people doing the thinking for them. peace over war
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