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Manufacturing Consent
Posted 1/24/10

JJT2 wrote:


Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You can't tell if I was being serious? When you don't even need my consent, while you still keep pleading me to "understand the concept" with "documentary or book on the subject".

You still don't get it now, do you? That ever since here, I've been demonstrating my understanding on how the concept of manipulating individuals in order to manufacture consent works. By me manipulating you through my "circus act" on your own forum topic. While you raised your concern about my English as second language skill here, and now you claimed that's not even an argument about your own topic.

I think you own me an explanation for your lack of composure, direction, as well as understanding. When you somehow failed to understand my first reply to your topic.


You're not being serious, are you? I think you're just trying to have some fun now. That would explain a lot.


Let me explain what Dom-somthing is trying to say. He is trying to explain that if evil corporations r controling america through media manpulation, then u r trying to do the same thing by controlling americans through media manipulation. You just believe that your right and the corporations r wrong.

Then Dom goes on to say that the "true" path to enlightenment is through individual introspection (mediatation), and not through the sharing of information (AKA "brainwashing").

And he is being serious... and yur right about it being off topic, irrelavent, hard to understand, and a rather pointless position to take on the grand scheme of things...peace over war
And which part of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" that you don't understand? When a horse will lead itself to water and drinks from it, but only when the horse is thirsty.

Therefore I just simply don't approve those individuals who still aren't clear with their intentions, not their methods.


Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Nope, I am having fun whenever I'm being serious. That's the only way I know how to be honest with myself.


If you're being serious then I don't know what to say.

Honest with yourself?

You came into the topic not understanding what the words in the title meant. But you go ahead and post random irrelevant ideas and try to sound smart by using big words and unnecessarily complex sentences, even though your English isn't up to par, which makes things very difficult to go through. Then you realize you don't even know what the topic is about and quickly try to come up with more random irrelevant and very, very strange ideas, and use terms you don't understand. And it's just a downward spiral until it's just too ridiculous for me to respond anymore.

I think you come up with your ideas not because they are relevant and make sense, but just for the sake of having a seemingly smart idea. And it usually backfires. And not just in this topic, I've noticed this in a lot of topics. Part of this whole "I'm a professional sociologist and a serious free thinker" facade.

That's not being honest with yourself.
And even if what you said about me are true, that's still me being honest with my state of ambiguity.

And for the record, I'm an amateur social scientist and a professional fitness trainer. Although both are just somethings that I'm passionate about, while I don't plan on making money with either one of those skills.


JJT2 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.


If you don't understand how the central banking system operates in the US (and how that eventually leads to corporate favoritism and thus mass ignorance to keep their system running) then you won't understand why the ordinary people haven't been able to help themselves out of the situation. The selfish rich persons in control don't want ordinary people to wise up and find a way out. Yes there are solutions and I never said there weren't any. The reality of things must be exposed to the public first before the solutions can be enacted, which I've been attempting to do here.
Individual enlightenment isn't gained from repeated exposure of the same fact, but rather it's obtained from within our own individual self-awareness. Therefore the more you enforcing your concepts and ideals on ordinary people, you are subsequently preventing them from reaching their own enlightenment. In the end, what you ended up doing to the people is exactly the same as any selfish rich person.


What i want to get, is how does enlightenment sovle this "issue" of "evil" corrborations taking over America? A group of people doing too much thinking doesnt get any more done then a group of people doing the thinking for them. peace over war
If you did read my first reply to this topic, you should see my solution was plain and simple as:

The answer to that question is relatively simple; support our own local communities as well as local businesses via our own incentives, and not support the goods and services that the rich provided with our own money. After all, that's also within our rights and freedoms. And it's perfectly justifiable within the consent of the law, as long as there's not a legislation that forces us to must buy from the rich.
And if you haven't been doing that already, why are you still wasting your time complaining?
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Posted 1/24/10

DomFortress wrote:


JJT2 wrote:


Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You can't tell if I was being serious? When you don't even need my consent, while you still keep pleading me to "understand the concept" with "documentary or book on the subject".

You still don't get it now, do you? That ever since here, I've been demonstrating my understanding on how the concept of manipulating individuals in order to manufacture consent works. By me manipulating you through my "circus act" on your own forum topic. While you raised your concern about my English as second language skill here, and now you claimed that's not even an argument about your own topic.

I think you own me an explanation for your lack of composure, direction, as well as understanding. When you somehow failed to understand my first reply to your topic.


You're not being serious, are you? I think you're just trying to have some fun now. That would explain a lot.


Let me explain what Dom-somthing is trying to say. He is trying to explain that if evil corporations r controling america through media manpulation, then u r trying to do the same thing by controlling americans through media manipulation. You just believe that your right and the corporations r wrong.

Then Dom goes on to say that the "true" path to enlightenment is through individual introspection (mediatation), and not through the sharing of information (AKA "brainwashing").

And he is being serious... and yur right about it being off topic, irrelavent, hard to understand, and a rather pointless position to take on the grand scheme of things...peace over war
And which part of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" that you don't understand? When a horse will lead itself to water and drinks from it, but only when the horse is thirsty.

Therefore I just simply don't approve those individuals who still aren't clear with their intentions, not their methods.


Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Nope, I am having fun whenever I'm being serious. That's the only way I know how to be honest with myself.


If you're being serious then I don't know what to say.

Honest with yourself?

You came into the topic not understanding what the words in the title meant. But you go ahead and post random irrelevant ideas and try to sound smart by using big words and unnecessarily complex sentences, even though your English isn't up to par, which makes things very difficult to go through. Then you realize you don't even know what the topic is about and quickly try to come up with more random irrelevant and very, very strange ideas, and use terms you don't understand. And it's just a downward spiral until it's just too ridiculous for me to respond anymore.

I think you come up with your ideas not because they are relevant and make sense, but just for the sake of having a seemingly smart idea. And it usually backfires. And not just in this topic, I've noticed this in a lot of topics. Part of this whole "I'm a professional sociologist and a serious free thinker" facade.

That's not being honest with yourself.
And even if what you said about me are true, that's still me being honest with my state of ambiguity.

And for the record, I'm an amateur social scientist and a professional fitness trainer. Although both are just somethings that I'm passionate about, while I don't plan on making money with either one of those skills.


JJT2 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Well in that case, I will attempt to get this topic up and running again...



All I have to say is read about it if your life hasn't been directly affected by it already. While I don't claim infinite knowledge, I'll be more than glad to answer any questions because I personally believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
All I'm hearing from you are corporation this and corporation that, and how we're being ignorant to this and ignorant to that. And thus, you never thought about how the ordinary people can help themselves out of this situation, because they have the equal rights and freedoms just like those who are in the position of leadership.

When you consider that our own individual perceptions of the universe are contained within our own imagination. Not by any book, device, program, or even word. While human knowledge OTOH came from human discoveries. This means that the less we know about our individual selves through individual self-discovery, the less there is about us in our own perception of the universe. And to think, that's how the big three religions plus technology, and just about any institution, are able to enslave and manipulate our minds.


If you don't understand how the central banking system operates in the US (and how that eventually leads to corporate favoritism and thus mass ignorance to keep their system running) then you won't understand why the ordinary people haven't been able to help themselves out of the situation. The selfish rich persons in control don't want ordinary people to wise up and find a way out. Yes there are solutions and I never said there weren't any. The reality of things must be exposed to the public first before the solutions can be enacted, which I've been attempting to do here.
Individual enlightenment isn't gained from repeated exposure of the same fact, but rather it's obtained from within our own individual self-awareness. Therefore the more you enforcing your concepts and ideals on ordinary people, you are subsequently preventing them from reaching their own enlightenment. In the end, what you ended up doing to the people is exactly the same as any selfish rich person.


What i want to get, is how does enlightenment sovle this "issue" of "evil" corrborations taking over America? A group of people doing too much thinking doesnt get any more done then a group of people doing the thinking for them. peace over war
If you did read my first reply to this topic, you should see my solution was plain and simple as:

The answer to that question is relatively simple; support our own local communities as well as local businesses via our own incentives, and not support the goods and services that the rich provided with our own money. After all, that's also within our rights and freedoms. And it's perfectly justifiable within the consent of the law, as long as there's not a legislation that forces us to must buy from the rich.
And if you haven't been doing that already, why are you still wasting your time complaining?



The answer to that question is relatively simple; support our own local communities as well as local businesses via our own incentives, and not support the goods and services that the rich provided with our own money. After all, that's also within our rights and freedoms. And it's perfectly justifiable within the consent of the law, as long as there's not a legislation that forces us to must buy from the rich.And if you haven't been doing that already, why are you still wasting your time complaining?

Americans growing thier own food, creating their own jobs, providing thier own services, and not relying on the government to sue for every little injury they cause them selves? That sure is relativly simple...for the few religious communities on the outskirts of the USA that are all ready doing it.

For the rest of them who cant give up the fast food, lazyness, and spoiledness,simply must rely on the USA and rich corporations to wipe thier own butts.Because they cant wipe them thier selves. That's why American has been running the way it has for so long-it works and people r too lazy and content to do anything about it-ignorance IS bliss. peace over war
Posted 1/24/10 , edited 1/24/10
Blissful ignorance is what the corporations and the banks that own them count on, which allows them to continue their business with no interruption from the average citizen. Large American companies like Dow Chemical and Halliburton who continue to roam the world trying to control every means of ownership and production. They're affluent enough to even bend legislation and laws to work in their favor. Whenever something horrible happens (like the 1984 industrial disaster in Bhopal) they have the power to not take any blame for it. Why? They've got the politicians and the judges in their wallets.

Supporting local communities sounds like a novel idea but it won't solve the problem because this is on a gigantic scale. The money that is circulated throughout the country are still through Federal Reserve Notes, which are issued by the 12 District Banks that literally own the United States of America. The larger corporations will continue to buy out the smaller ones until there are only a handful of them left. You don't need to be that well-informed to know that the number of major insurance companies, oil companies, etc. continue to decline. Small businesses I see around me are always closing, going out of service, or have to merge with some other entity just to stay alive. Might as well learn to start saying goodbye to your social security money. In the end, the big guns are still getting our money.


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Posted 1/25/10
The ultimate means of ending it all, would be to regain control of our own means of agriculture. Because what does it all really come down to when the well runs dry, but our means of survival. The Fed could be literally bankrupted if everyone quit working for corporations. In order to do this, local communities, rural, and urban need to be able to supply the populus with food and medicine. This can all make a very positive turn around once the "Law" is re-established and set for the re-emergence of bio-diesels and renewable clean energy, much like the hemp bio-diesel that was the original fuel intended for a diesel engine. http://www.hempcar.org/diesel.shtml
The gloom and doom of ultimate control by a shadow elite is exactly the image that is ingrained into the heads of any who are aware enough to even know it exists. Their control is one that lies within your mind, not with the external world. You are not their slaves, you merely are your own slave.
Let us all just grow our own fruits and vegetables, it is the food that was naturally suited to heal and maintain your body and we can all pitch in the effort. We would greatly benefit from a society modeled after current India or the Yogic ("Ayuverda and Traditional Chinese Medicine) philosophy of life such as this town that resides in Iowa of all places. http://www.vediccity.net/
Posted 1/25/10 , edited 1/25/10
There is much more going on here than just agriculture. We're also talking about the distribution and management of resources, raw materials, and many essential goods and services deemed necessary for everyday living. Now think about all the major businesses who own all the important land and means of transportation to deliver these materials to where it gets manufactured, before being sold off to places around the country. Imagine the number of businesses making obscene profits from this circulation of services and they get a lot of legal protection as a result. The average citizen simply does not have the power to reverse this system because those who own the important land and access to the activity of resources have the legislation on their side.

The only real way any significant change can happen is if the Fed gets completely stripped of its power and the responsibility of coining and regulating money is back into the hands of Congress and the US Treasury, as it originally once was before 1913. No more private control. The people will be in command of their currency without interest attached, regardless of what industry you're part of. Unfortunately whenever the Fed has been challenged the opposition is always defeated. The government won't demolish or even audit the Fed because with them in place they can spend however much they want. And that's how the Fed operates, owning the government and the economy by driving as many people into debt as possible.

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Posted 1/25/10 , edited 1/25/10
Well no lie, the Fed is certainly one of the problems the USA is facing if not the world with their central banks. The very creation of it was mysterious indeed with top level bankers around the world gathering in secret. They did single handly and still are devaluing the dollar especially after eradicating the gold standard. Only 3 brave presidents stood up to the fed and thats Andrew Jackson (defeated the second central bank), Abraham Lincoln (came up with Green Backs which was printed by congress), and John F. Kennedy (Executive Order 11110, which would allow congress to use silver backed money). Now there is a conspiracy which I am not certain to be true at all that says because they stood up to central banks they were all murdered or been shot at. Who knows but thats what some say. As of today Ron Paul is taking on the fed and is introducing legislation to allow audits to them. He personally wants to eliminate the fed as well as he says they are the ones who are the cause of the bubbles and most of the USA economic woes.

Even if the Fed is wiped out does that stop the corruption there? Were they the ones funding our corrupt one sided, brainwashing media? What about our corrupt politicians? Simply handing over power to them doesnt change anything. Will they control their spending habits? I believe the only way is like Ron Paul and money other smart economists say is back the money up with gold. So therefore we can only spend what we have in reserve.

My main thing is going after the people who you are forbidden to talk about. The people who take extreme measures to shut you up rather it is destroying your character, career, or possible even assasination. I think the more resistance you get for bringing light to corrupt organizations the more closer you are to the truth. Because if not why is the resistance so heavy that everyone in congress, "wouldn't dare mention their name?" To me it makes no sense this is a free country and our free speech protected by the first amendment which these elitist neo-cons do not like. They come up with a bunch of smear words and other things to stop one from talking.

Really we cant expect any change in the USA unless the people are united. Right now people think the only people who can change is our leaders but that couldn't be further from the truth. How long must we put up with business as usual from the Republicrats? Is there a difference between either party? Is someone controlling both parties? Whats the difference with them solving economic issues? Foreign policy? Domestic issues? For as long as I lived I haven't seen any difference but maybe on something as small as gay marriage or abortion. We the sane people have no voice. We have no independent media to counter these people. People rely on the news for information and believe everything they hear because they are "the news". They are very organized either we get brainwashed on our radio stations or tv outlets and any sane person who challenges the status quo is media attacked and called loony. So the typical American has to support the status quo in order to be sane. It is like they separate us especially this stupid liberal vs conservative thing going on here. Anything to keep us separated rather then united as one people. So Noam is right even if some of us finally wake up out this slumber what can we do? Where do we start who do we talk to? How can we get people on board when some of them are so far down the hole you cant pull them up? The good thing is I think the more punishment the American people take for supporting corrupt people and never seeing any change the more people start to wake up. Give it more time it will happen, we will say enough is enough.
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Posted 1/25/10
Ron paul schooled this guy badly about the fed. Beautiful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOB_LcPHU0
Posted 1/26/10

drizza wrote:

Even if the Fed is wiped out does that stop the corruption there? Were they the ones funding our corrupt one sided, brainwashing media? What about our corrupt politicians? Simply handing over power to them doesnt change anything. Will they control their spending habits? I believe the only way is like Ron Paul and money other smart economists say is back the money up with gold. So therefore we can only spend what we have in reserve.


I really believe wiping out the Fed would stop lots of corruption. Keep in mind that these bankers are the ones who own and control those big biased media corporations and manage the political news we get, since the whole public relations industry is tied to the government. Politicians and judges are corrupt because they get into their high-paying positions eventually to favor the Fed's activities in return. With the Fed out of the picture, the government will have to control their spending since they won't have someone like the Fed printing them invisible money to further expand the national debt.

I agree with Ron Paul that we have to turn to the nation's gold and silver supplies. The Fed absolutely hates that idea because they cannot keep notes on them and won't benefit from their use. So I think the transfer of political power has to begin with the transfer of who regulates the money first, and then try to takes things from there.
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The problem with the Fed and corruption in the government is important, but the the topic is more about how the general public doesn't know about them, and that's why these problems even exist. If everyone was completely aware of it all they wouldn't tolerate it and it would be changed very easily.

So the biggest problem is overcoming the propaganda, indoctrination and ignorance that is imposed on the public. Then we can get democracy back. But I don't know if that's possible now because people in general are so oblivious to everything and only focus on their own lives.
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Yea I was talking about the Fed because they were mentioned. I agree they are apart of the problem but I dont believe they are the ones stiffing debates, calling all the shots and run our media. For starts Ron Paul is effectively trying to pass a bill to audit them. He is getting a lot of media attention from all over especially Fox News and they arent attacking him either. Lol the way I see it if you can get coverage on that network without hassle then your not attacking the elites.

Now you make a good point people are to oblivious to everything because they have their own problems. Especially with a bad economy they dont have time to pay attention to our government but rather how they going to pay that bill, feed their kids, etc. But the thing is if they keep ignoring what our government is doing, not caring who the president is, then their lives will undoubtedly stay the same. The system itself is very hard to work outside of because like I said if he have a completely different view from the mainstream then you are severely attacked and in some cases cut off. Also sports, video games, movies, etc.. all take the mind off the bigger issues because those things are entertaining. They are fun to do rather then just read about politics or even care what the next president will do. I know people who knows more about the NFL then the symbolism of July 4th. Now thats terrible. People now adays dont even care about the constitution they just pay lip service to it. If Americans themselves dont care about it how we going to hold our politicians up to it? Certaintely they dont care about it thats why none of them follow it. So you if the people arent engaged no change will ever happen. Even the few that are how do we get others to? You seen some people on here lol how can you change their minds? I may find a lot of people who think like me on the interent but when I step outside into the real world is my neighbor thinking like this? What about people at my job? My school? Hell I dont know anyone in IRL who knows who Ron Paul, Dennis Kuicinch, Noam Chomsky, Normand Finkelstine, etc, etc.

Untill we can establish our own independant media to combat the mainstream it is futile. The internet of course is waking many people up. But sadly in this world people would rather watch and listen then read about whats gonig on. Most of my education on politics comes from reading. This is why the printing press is slowly dieing in America because we rather watch the events taking place. A good independant media will get those who like to watch exposed to the truth.
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May I please ask--? why is the issue of 'manufactured consent' being limited here to politics & Fed. gov.-- don't all entities of power & control (real or perceived) attempt the tactics of deceit, manipulation, & misdirection in order to confuse the masses to further their own ends & profits? Doesn't every business area, every sort of organised religion, even the microcosm of neighborhood & individual families participate in these types of behavior on both the acts of control as well as that of the passively disinterested? Are we ever truly able to overcome what is probably a part of human behavioral patterns? ( I'm only asking, sorry if I've missed some crucial point to this thread...) I'm reminded of P.T. Barnum's quote: you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but never all the people all the time. I wonder if we'll ever get everybody on the same page of understanding?
Posted 1/31/10

farmbird wrote:

May I please ask--? why is the issue of 'manufactured consent' being limited here to politics & Fed. gov.-- don't all entities of power & control (real or perceived) attempt the tactics of deceit, manipulation, & misdirection in order to confuse the masses to further their own ends & profits? Doesn't every business area, every sort of organised religion, even the microcosm of neighborhood & individual families participate in these types of behavior on both the acts of control as well as that of the passively disinterested? Are we ever truly able to overcome what is probably a part of human behavioral patterns? ( I'm only asking, sorry if I've missed some crucial point to this thread...) I'm reminded of P.T. Barnum's quote: you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but never all the people all the time. I wonder if we'll ever get everybody on the same page of understanding?
And that's just it, most people are limiting their own opinions on the act of manufacturing consent within their own special interests. It's as if they've only came into light of this particular human nature for the very first time.

Which is why I think it's a good sign that we're not yet really on the same level of understanding ourselves, if it only means there are still more to learn.
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Posted 1/31/10 , edited 1/31/10

farmbird wrote:

May I please ask--? why is the issue of 'manufactured consent' being limited here to politics & Fed. gov.-- don't all entities of power & control (real or perceived) attempt the tactics of deceit, manipulation, & misdirection in order to confuse the masses to further their own ends & profits? Doesn't every business area, every sort of organised religion, even the microcosm of neighborhood & individual families participate in these types of behavior on both the acts of control as well as that of the passively disinterested? Are we ever truly able to overcome what is probably a part of human behavioral patterns? ( I'm only asking, sorry if I've missed some crucial point to this thread...) I'm reminded of P.T. Barnum's quote: you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all the time, but never all the people all the time. I wonder if we'll ever get everybody on the same page of understanding?


The term was invented specifically to describe a 'revolution' in democratic governments/societies.

Yes it could be applied to any large-scale power structure that may need consent to carry out actions, like the Catholic Church. But if a teenager tricks his parents to give him/her consent to do something they wouldn't regularly accept, that's not really "manufacturing."

But anyways, the term specifically refers to supposedly democratic government systems, and that's what the point of this topic is. General deceitful behaviour and manipulation alone are irrelevant to the topic.
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Posted 1/31/10

Yei wrote:

The term was invented specifically to describe a 'revolution' in democratic governments/societies.

Yes it could be applied to any large-scale power structure that may need consent to carry out actions, like the Catholic Church. But if a teenager tricks his parents to give him/her consent to do something they wouldn't regularly accept, that's not really "manufacturing."

But anyways, the term specifically refers to supposedly democratic government systems, and that's what the point of this topic is. General deceitful behaviour and manipulation alone are irrelevant to the topic.


Thank you. I appreciate the clarification. I just watched the youtube link- & tho I now get your reasoning for specifying politics & gov., I'm still wondering about the forces impacting or influencing both the government as well as the citizens' perception of said gov. & what it is you're asking for comments on.

I find it ironic, for instance, you site the detachment from politics to have begun sometime during the 60s. Living thru that time period up to my high school years, I saw that period of time as an increase in political involvement, & public awareness, especially during the political campaigns of that era starting w/ JFK & continuing thru the early Nixon yrs. The 60s may be remembered for the rise of the hippy culture, peace, love & 'turning on', but it was also the era of demonstrations in Washington DC, protests & sit-ins on college campuses, rising awareness of equal rights & civil liberties, as well as the signing of the Freedom of Information act in 1966. There must be something extra to this discussion's direction, some additional explanation or definition for those of us who haven't read the Chomsky book.

I acknowledge your question whether big & wealthy US will survive- the bigger they are the harder they fall syndrome. Better yet - what role should each of us, individually as well as collectively be doing in consideration of these concerns, & potential outcomes?

Do public schools still teach government & civics using Alexis de Toucqueville's Democracy in America? I'm surprised I remembered much of it- it was fascinating reading:

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/DETOC/toc_indx.html
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