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Che Guevara
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Posted 2/8/10

DomFortress wrote:


azera wrote:You don't get it what im trying to point out didn't you?

The movie is a direct criticism to Iraq War and US imperalist policies after WWII

Still don't get it?
What you didn't get is the fact that it is those who criticize that the US war on Iraq was wrong, are seeing the movie Avatar as some sort of political campaign against this so-called US "imperialism". And the proof is that the movie itself is a work of fiction, not a documentary.


Even James Cameron (the director) himself aknowledge that.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/war-on-terror-backdrop-to-james-camerons-avatar/story-e6frg8pf-1225809286903

Evo Morales, the first indigenous Bolivian President, and a victim of US atrocious foreign policy praise Avatar for ""profound show of resistance to capitalism and the struggle for the defense of nature."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/evo-morales-praises-avata_n_420663.html
Posted 2/8/10

azera wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


azera wrote:You don't get it what im trying to point out didn't you?

The movie is a direct criticism to Iraq War and US imperalist policies after WWII

Still don't get it?
What you didn't get is the fact that it is those who criticize that the US war on Iraq was wrong, are seeing the movie Avatar as some sort of political campaign against this so-called US "imperialism". And the proof is that the movie itself is a work of fiction, not a documentary.


Even James Cameron (the director) himself aknowledge that.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/war-on-terror-backdrop-to-james-camerons-avatar/story-e6frg8pf-1225809286903

Evo Morales, the first indigenous Bolivian President, and a victim of US atrocious foreign policy praise Avatar for ""profound show of resistance to capitalism and the struggle for the defense of nature."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/evo-morales-praises-avata_n_420663.html
You mean this?

...Cameron said yesterday the theme was not the main point of Avatar, but added that Americans had a "moral responsibility" to understand the impact that their country's recent military campaigns had had.

"We went down a path that cost several hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives. I don't think the American people even know why it was done. So it's all about opening your eyes."...

...After the Na'vi homes collapse in flames the landscape is coated in ash and floating embers in scenes reminiscent of Ground Zero after the September 11 attacks.

Cameron, who was born in Canada, said he had been "surprised at how much it did look like September 11. I didn't think that was necessarily a bad thing".

Referring to the "shock and awe" sequence, he said: "We know what it feels like to launch the missiles. We don't know what it feels like for them to land on our home soil, not in America. I think there's a moral responsibility to understand that.

"That's not what the movie's about - that's only a minor part of it. For me it feels consistent only in a very generalised theme of us looking at ourselves as human beings in a technical society with all its skills, part of which is the ability to do mechanised warfare, part of which is the ability to do warfare at a distance, at a remove, which seems to make it morally easier to deal with, but its not."
...
That's the only reflection on the calamity of war that Cameron himself have to say about the movie, now what does that have to do with yours and anyone else opinions about the War on Terror?

Furthermore, what Cameron said about "moral responsibility" of killing with technology is basically that he thinks technology psychologically made mass killing so easy and emotionally effortless. By physically making the act of killing as easy as a push of a button, like playing a video game.
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Posted 2/8/10

Thanatos_ wrote:

A glorified terrorist if you ask me. If capitalism is so bad how come CHINA rules the world? Hell......we should all just be Commies and get it over with...


Now that's some dangerous thinking you're doing there.

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Posted 2/8/10

Cyberpirate wrote:


Thanatos_ wrote:

A glorified terrorist if you ask me. If capitalism is so bad how come CHINA rules the world? Hell......we should all just be Commies and get it over with...


Now that's some dangerous thinking you're doing there.



Dangerous thinking.. not really. The fact is we be better off if we did take what works in Communism, and what works in Democracy, then take what works for Capitalism... On second thought there not much that works with a pure Capitalism so very little of that will be added to the mix. After a quick mix, and filling in the cracks, "you just created a Ideal government that most likely will be better than what your country has at this time. "
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Posted 2/9/10

DomFortress wrote:

Che's never on anybody's side but his owns, when he dismissed the "freedom" and "equality" of his oppositions by him killing them. Who are also people by default. In fact, by this very method of his, Che is more like his oppositions. The only difference is the fact that he isn't rich.

And they both applied the same method of obtaining their own "freedoms" and "equality", by them relying on their guns and not their wits. The only difference is the fact that Che isn't an authoritative figure.


Who was the original Che's opposition? They were the ones who oppress weak people and gain full control by force with imperialism by big nation. They were the enemy of weak people who've tired being oppressed and discriminated. If Che only followed his own idealism without never concerning others, then there'd be nobody who will follow him.

Talking about the situation there. If you trying to change the situation only by talking smart, you'll be shot in no time. Like children whining to their parents of the rules in home. The wits of Che was not too stupid to allowed himself died when what he did was talk. He gathered the people, being critical about their life and created the movement of both wits and strengths to oppose the corrupted governments who have no wits and strengths, as the history spoken the result of their battle of freedom.

Freedom is not free, you see...
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Posted 2/9/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:
Dangerous thinking.. not really. The fact is we be better off if we did take what works in Communism, and what works in Democracy, then take what works for Capitalism... On second thought there not much that works with a pure Capitalism so very little of that will be added to the mix. After a quick mix, and filling in the cracks, "you just created a Ideal government that most likely will be better than what your country has at this time. "


What good is there go gather from communism? It's solely based on people doing an equal part and the government decide what to do with what you have "earned". But what happens to those who can't contribute to society? This will be DDR all over again.

Oh, and what you described is called socialdemocracy ;)

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Posted 2/9/10 , edited 2/9/10

Cyberpirate wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:
Dangerous thinking.. not really. The fact is we be better off if we did take what works in Communism, and what works in Democracy, then take what works for Capitalism... On second thought there not much that works with a pure Capitalism so very little of that will be added to the mix. After a quick mix, and filling in the cracks, "you just created a Ideal government that most likely will be better than what your country has at this time. "


What good is there go gather from communism? It's solely based on people doing an equal part and the government decide what to do with what you have "earned". But what happens to those who can't contribute to society? This will be DDR all over again.

Oh, and what you described is called socialdemocracy ;)



'The equal part. Everyone is equal is a good thing.. Also can be used to build a strong wealthy country that is run by its people.'
The dictatorship part of communism is not really part of a communism.. That is just what happens wen you get anyone in power.. So Snip. No More person or small group in power.

Instead do to times we can have everyone equal no one person with more power than the next.. Choices are decided by the people through voting. Computer age makes that easy and fast. All jobs pay the same, everyone gets equal treatment.
through this kind of governing we can even make schooling free. (hell if you really wanna know we could even eliminate the need for money within the country.. being everyone gets a fair share/everyone is equal.. money for imports, come from the money from exports.. and trade agreements.
As for and jobs.... That is easy do to people getting payed the same wen looking for work and your area of experties is filled, there be a job program that is designed around unemployment people. Such as reserved jobs... Jobs like trash pickup, to Fast food workers, will be set aside for people who in middle of getting the job there train for. (being everyone gets to go to school for free... Means everyone can be train to do something they want to do with all there heart. ) (so people wanna be a doctor.. Its not just about money anymore do to that factor being eliminated.)
I right a book about it for you.. Explaining every little detail from people governing them selves to every day living.
Posted 2/9/10 , edited 2/9/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Che's never on anybody's side but his owns, when he dismissed the "freedom" and "equality" of his oppositions by him killing them. Who are also people by default. In fact, by this very method of his, Che is more like his oppositions. The only difference is the fact that he isn't rich.

And they both applied the same method of obtaining their own "freedoms" and "equality", by them relying on their guns and not their wits. The only difference is the fact that Che isn't an authoritative figure.


Who was the original Che's opposition? They were the ones who oppress weak people and gain full control by force with imperialism by big nation. They were the enemy of weak people who've tired being oppressed and discriminated. If Che only followed his own idealism without never concerning others, then there'd be nobody who will follow him.

Talking about the situation there. If you trying to change the situation only by talking smart, you'll be shot in no time. Like children whining to their parents of the rules in home. The wits of Che was not too stupid to allowed himself died when what he did was talk. He gathered the people, being critical about their life and created the movement of both wits and strengths to oppose the corrupted governments who have no wits and strengths, as the history spoken the result of their battle of freedom.

Freedom is not free, you see...
Fight for the freedom to live, while at the same time look down on the future of humanity? That's patriarchy right there.

Also, if what Che did was to overthrown a stupid and weak government with an equally stupefied yet powerful mob. That's how he managed to change the Cuban government form a stupid weakling into a stupid thug.

For Che, freedom is stupidity with a trigger-happy attitude.


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:



'The equal part. Everyone is equal is a good thing.. Also can be used to build a strong wealthy country that is run by its people.'
The dictatorship part of communism is not really part of a communism.. That is just what happens wen you get anyone in power.. So Snip. No More person or small group in power.

Instead do to times we can have everyone equal no one person with more power than the next.. Choices are decided by the people through voting. Computer age makes that easy and fast. All jobs pay the same, everyone gets equal treatment.
through this kind of governing we can even make schooling free. (hell if you really wanna know we could even eliminate the need for money within the country.. being everyone gets a fair share/everyone is equal.. money for imports, come from the money from exports.. and trade agreements.
As for and jobs.... That is easy do to people getting payed the same wen looking for work and your area of experties is filled, there be a job program that is designed around unemployment people. Such as reserved jobs... Jobs like trash pickup, to Fast food workers, will be set aside for people who in middle of getting the job there train for. (being everyone gets to go to school for free... Means everyone can be train to do something they want to do with all there heart. ) (so people wanna be a doctor.. Its not just about money anymore do to that factor being eliminated.)
I right a book about it for you.. Explaining every little detail from people governing them selves to every day living.
IMO, that's the most illogical aspect of today's economic system; a disproportional distribution of wealth on some individuals in the form of currency. And not realizing the actual worth of currency itself; aka potential resources in the forms of goods and services represented by money.

In that sense, what does Bill Gates wants to do with a net worth of $40 billion(citation)? Does he even need all that resources in order for him to survive? Put that fact into perspective, in means that Bill Gates' being paid at $150/second on average. And could afford to do this in the Lincoln Bedroom at the While House for 1500 years(we can thank Michelle Obama for putting a stop down that direction).

In conclusion, we've got too much money for its actual worth. And when we don't have the real resources to validate them all, that's how the world economy now went into a recession. In other words, we've been wasting our time and money on generating pretty looking stock numbers and more "money", but not on the actual process of spending resources to generate more resources.
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Posted 2/9/10

DomFortress wrote:

IMO, that's the most illogical aspect of today's economic system; a disproportional distribution of wealth on some individuals in the form of currency. And not realizing the actual worth of currency itself; aka potential resources in the forms of goods and services represented by money.

In that sense, what does Bill Gates wants to do with a net worth of $40 billion(citation)? Does he even need all that resources in order for him to survive? Put that fact into perspective, in means that Bill Gates' being paid at $150/second on average. And could afford to do this in the Lincoln Bedroom at the While House for 1500 years(we can thank Michelle Obama for putting a stop down that direction).

In conclusion, we've got too much money for its actual worth. And when we don't have the real resources to validate them all, that's how the world economy now went into a recession. In other words, we've been wasting our time and money on generating pretty looking stock numbers and more "money", but not on the actual process of spending resources to generate more resources.


So you agree that wealth should be distributed more equally. A Welder, Doctor, Movie Star, plumber should be paid equally.
Such a set up would indeed help the economy.
Posted 2/9/10 , edited 2/9/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

IMO, that's the most illogical aspect of today's economic system; a disproportional distribution of wealth on some individuals in the form of currency. And not realizing the actual worth of currency itself; aka potential resources in the forms of goods and services represented by money.

In that sense, what does Bill Gates wants to do with a net worth of $40 billion(citation)? Does he even need all that resources in order for him to survive? Put that fact into perspective, in means that Bill Gates' being paid at $150/second on average. And could afford to do this in the Lincoln Bedroom at the While House for 1500 years(we can thank Michelle Obama for putting a stop down that direction).

In conclusion, we've got too much money for its actual worth. And when we don't have the real resources to validate them all, that's how the world economy now went into a recession. In other words, we've been wasting our time and money on generating pretty looking stock numbers and more "money", but not on the actual process of spending resources to generate more resources.


So you agree that wealth should be distributed more equally. A Welder, Doctor, Movie Star, plumber should be paid equally.
Such a set up would indeed help the economy.
I'm not just looking at wealth using accounting, when I'm perceiving currency as "potential resources", human lives included.

Not only that, I'm also looking at resources for what they truly worth; life necessity. Gold can't sustain life like water can, and yet it's a resource that's been overvalued for what its worth due to stock market manipulation. You're a metal artist yourself, but aside from the fact that gold looks pretty, you know as well as I do that the characteristic of gold itself makes it very hard to work with in its purest form. Whereas I OTOH just think it's a decent conductor for electricity.

And when you consider just how much I understand happiness works as an amateur social scientist, you should realize that what I'm looking at is a complete overhaul on the economic system. As well as reconstruction of power as in open-source education, and sustainable resources as in life necessity beyond mere personal gains. In other words, I want to throwaway the price-gun when we can't put a price tag on ourselves and call ourselves slaves, aka enslaving ourselves under our current economic system.
Posted 2/9/10

Cyberpirate wrote:


Thanatos_ wrote:

A glorified terrorist if you ask me. If capitalism is so bad how come CHINA rules the world? Hell......we should all just be Commies and get it over with...


Now that's some dangerous thinking you're doing there.



How so? Those are just facts!
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Posted 2/10/10

DomFortress wrote:

Fight for the freedom to live, while at the same time look down on the future of humanity? That's patriarchy right there.

Also, if what Che did was to overthrown a stupid and weak government with an equally stupefied yet powerful mob. That's how he managed to change the Cuban government form a stupid weakling into a stupid thug.

For Che, freedom is stupidity with a trigger-happy attitude.


Yeah, Che was the one who taught his people to look upon the bright future which was always been a pointless things to do when they were under the imperialism. Che inspired people to break the unbreakable and do the impossible to gain their happiness through freedom and equally by looking at the bright side of future humanity.

The fact about Cuban government today is really contradict your words. They have been maintaining stability and have a great health facility to be accessed to all people, even though they are overseas people. They even treated Americans which was the enemy of Cuba's people at that time. The environment which not looking down or discriminate to others was what Che's dreamed, which means harmony between humanity.

For others, War is pleasure with brutality.
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Posted 2/10/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

So you agree that wealth should be distributed more equally. A Welder, Doctor, Movie Star, plumber should be paid equally.
Such a set up would indeed help the economy.


Does anyone who has Master's degree and above agreed to be paid equally with a person who's only graduated as high school? I think the attitude of subject of economy should be taken as consideration as well.
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Posted 2/10/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

So you agree that wealth should be distributed more equally. A Welder, Doctor, Movie Star, plumber should be paid equally.
Such a set up would indeed help the economy.


Does anyone who has Master's degree and above agreed to be paid equally with a person who's only graduated as high school? I think the attitude of subject of economy should be taken as consideration as well.


Its about doing the job you wanna do, your dream job.. Money is not a factor anymore. So if you wanted to be a doctor, and your smart enough to do it, the schooling is free.. Become a doctor. If your hero is a cop and you wanna be just like him than do it.. Money does not need to be a factor in picking your life goals.
Tell me do you think its fair for a person like a actor or a sports star to make more than a welder ho has much more hazardous of a job.

This way everyone is not driven by greed but by there own passion.
Posted 2/10/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Fight for the freedom to live, while at the same time look down on the future of humanity? That's patriarchy right there.

Also, if what Che did was to overthrown a stupid and weak government with an equally stupefied yet powerful mob. That's how he managed to change the Cuban government form a stupid weakling into a stupid thug.

For Che, freedom is stupidity with a trigger-happy attitude.


Yeah, Che was the one who taught his people to look upon the bright future which was always been a pointless things to do when they were under the imperialism. Che inspired people to break the unbreakable and do the impossible to gain their happiness through freedom and equally by looking at the bright side of future humanity.

The fact about Cuban government today is really contradict your words. They have been maintaining stability and have a great health facility to be accessed to all people, even though they are overseas people. They even treated Americans which was the enemy of Cuba's people at that time. The environment which not looking down or discriminate to others was what Che's dreamed, which means harmony between humanity.

For others, War is pleasure with brutality.
You keep saying Che this and Che that, yet you have no baring as to who he was with what he did. You only cared about his ideals, when you're just as willing to negate his methods. Just like how you support today's Cuban government's military regime, even though you claimed that Che himself wouldn't approve of their methods; the same methods that Che himself implied in order for him to realize his own ideals: by force even when it isn't necessary.

And the proof is if both Che as well as the current Cuban military regime had the best intention of all their people in mind, why do they need to arm themselves with guns and military respectively? And if they think that them having guns and militarizing themselves is such a good idea, then why can't they just issue all of the Cuban citizens with guns, instead the rights to vote for military representatives?
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