Israeli Jew exposes Zionism and Anti-Semtism Cover up
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Posted 1/31/10
We can no longer deny the politics behind "anti-semitism" anymore as it does not go after anti-semites but as I stated people who only criticize Israel or any corrupt organization that happen to be Jewish. This Israeli Jew by the name of Yoav Shamir helps everyone understand the politics and the world of zionism. This is very educational as he even meets with the head of ADL Abe Foxman the very man whose job is to ruin people's lives by calling them antisemites. He states in Israel how he never experienced any antisemitism but at the same time the Israeli government is constantly bashing three words in their heads, "Antisemitism", "Holocaust", "Nazi", as if to keep the Jewish people in some trance that nobody likes them simply because they are jews and they been threw the holocaust.

Anyways heres the film http://wideeyecinema.com/?p=7208. Was an eye opener for me and I hope for others.
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Posted 2/18/10 , edited 2/18/10

We can no longer deny the politics behind "anti-semitism" anymore as it does not go after anti-semites but as I stated people who only criticize Israel or any corrupt organization that happen to be Jewish.


Yes, the term anti-Semite is often used as a political tool. This is called “calling the race card.” What you’re doing is what I call, “calling the race card, card.” I made a video about this on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfREzur7tyY

Where your statement becomes factually incorrect is where you say “it does not go after anti-Semites.” Yes, it does go after anti-Semites. Sometimes it’s employed against people who criticize Israel, but that in no way shows that in no other instance is it also used against anti-Semites. By your logic, any time a black person attempts to expose racism against blacks, they’re using it as a political crutch. We can no longer deny the politics behind "racism against blacks," anymore as it does not go after people who are racists against blacks, only peple who disagree with Obama.

After all, people have “called the race card,” to shut up republicans who aren’t racist simply because they oppose Obama or the democratic agenda.


This Israeli Jew by the name of Yoav Shamir helps everyone understand the politics and the world of zionism


This is an African American man who “understands,” the politics of the term racism against blacks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGCBxYfZ4JU&feature=related

And another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGttg9A9Ymg

Therefore, nobody calls people who are racist against blacks racist, they only call people who simply disagree with Obama racist. The term racism is just a political tool and we can no longer deny that.


He states in Israel how he never experienced any antisemitism but at the same time the Israeli government is constantly bashing three words in their heads, "Antisemitism", "Holocaust", "Nazi", as if to keep the Jewish people in some trance that nobody likes them simply because they are jews and they been threw the holocaust.


Joseph Farah, an Arab-American journalist, argues that he’s never experienced racism for being Arabic but that leftists always flaunt “anti-Arabism,’ over his head.



Therefore, there is no racism against Arabs and anti-Arabism is just a tool invented to achieve political goals. This man, who is an Arab, said so…so it must be true. Never mind the fact that he’s an Islamo-phobic, hyper conservative, Christian fundamentalist with a political agenda of his own. That, of course, has nothing to do with it. He’s an Arab so it’s utterly inconceivable that he has a bias in favor of a side that disagrees with the popular Arab opinion.

Also, this is a bit off topic, but you’ve brought it up before and it relates. Being Jewish does not mean you cannot be anti-Semitic anymore than being black means you are not prejudice against African-Americans. The Harlem Renaissance, for example, was initiated by a piece of African American literature called “The New Negro.” This document argued that African Americans have a prejudice, stereotyped idea of what it is to be a black man in America. He called this, “the old negro,” and argued that we need to see African Americans as individuals, or as “the New Negro.”

Malcolm X argued that black people are racist against themselves and do not even realize it.

A doll test following the end of segregation in public schools and consistently repeated with the same results ever since, showed that black children think that black people are ugly.

A test involving virtual reality among police officers showed that an African American police officer is more likely to shoot an unarmed black man than an unarmed man of any other ethnicity.


Was an eye opener for me and I hope for others.


It doesn’t sound like an eye opener to me. It seems to me that it simply reinforced a postulate you had already accepted for political reasons and that your opinion hasn’t evolved at all since last I spoke to you.
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Posted 2/18/10
Thanks for proving my point that Anti semitism is purely political. As you can finally see, Jews can see, and many Americans. It is the same is blacks using the race card with criticizing Obama. I always seen through that tactic. I listen to Sean Hannity (I dont agree with 80% of what he says but it is good to hear some criticism toward Obama when he needs it but a lot of times Hannity goes to far with fear mongering) and he is criticizing Obama on his policy. He never once tried to link Obama with the problems of African Americans as a whole or try to point out any stereotypes. Me and others do the exact same thing with Israel. We never once touch the Jewish Religion because thats irrelevant. The Jews I mention who support my position never touch their religion. But many like myself can see the utter bullshit of Anti-semitism being tossed around to safe guard Israel for her crimes. If you look at the video how can anyone come to the conclusion that this guy is a self hating Jew? He like me questions why is it that the Holocaust, Anti-semitism etc is always thrown at his face back in Israel. Israel is in part to blame for this because they have their people living in a dream world that nobody likes them because they are Jew and thats not the case. It is like the past like with African Americans has to keep being rehashed over and over. Keep the old wounds open. Make people who had no part in the holocaust always feel guilty and act as if we owe them something.

I mean by you showing me those video of those African Americans hell I always seen it like that. In fact I get pissed off every time the black race card is thrown if someone so much as make a joke about African Americans. It makes us look sensitive and make people not even want to deal with us. Unless there is a clear indication of racism toward African Americans like them being denied somewhere while whites get accepted or unacceptable police brutality towards them etc.., then that's being racist.

Seraph of course it isn't an eye opener for you I am not at least bit surprised. Trust me your opinion hasn't evolved either ever since the first time I met you especially after that comment you made previously in the past even if Israel was wrong you would still support them. You haven't shown me any proof to make my opinion evolve but confirm it even more. I was called an anti-semite by you and others for criticizing Israel but none could actually find a single bad thing I said about Jews as a whole. Thats why I wanted to see this video because it just shows what happens to me happens to many others as well.

If you watched the video there was some type of Jewish get together. Where the zionist (which confirms my beliefs again) was trying to link anti-zionism and anti-Israel to being anti-semitism, defending Israel. Many of them spoke of sad stories that happened to Jews in the past etc. There was one Jew who spoke the truth and he said, "If someone was to come from space, having looked at this conference, that there was absolutely no problem in the west bank or in Gaza. One element of the reason people are angry with Israel is because of the continuing settlement and occupation of Palestinian land and because Israel which has state power has not done enough to end the occupation. Such an occupation cannot be sustained without racism, violence, humiliation against the people who are occupied." That was profound statement and what shocked me is how the Jewish lady was pissed off. As if what he said wasn't supposed to be said. Relate this conference to the US and western media. IT IS THE EXACT SAME!!! If you would watch any of the news channels 24/7 you wouldnt think anything was wrong in Palestine. You would think they are crazed lunatics hell bent on destroying Israel while COMPLETELY IGNORING ISRAEL CRIMES. If you do say something about Israel just like this man YOU ARE ATTACK IMMEDIATELY!! So I am sorry Seraph now that I know what I know you can never make me turn a blind eye towards Palestine. My tax dollars is going to killing these people. I disagree with that, many Jewish and Israeli disagree with that. They human just like Israelis so they deserve to be treated better. Self hating Jew, Anti-semite, religious wars, all these defenses you guys come up with to cover up the truth is not working and as stated just verifies my beliefs.

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Posted 2/18/10 , edited 2/19/10

drizza wrote: Thanks for proving my point that Anti semitism is purely political.


You should work on your reading comprehension and listening skills. My whole point was that just because anti-Semitism is sometimes misused, doesn’t mean it’s always misused. A lot of the times whenever somebody accuses somebody of being anti-Semitic, the individual being accused is in fact anti-Semitic. Other times it’s a tool, but you have to judge based on an individual scale. Instead, what you’re doing is safeguarding the racists and extremists by automatically assuming that any accusation of anti-Semitism is “purely political.”

That would be like saying that what happened to Rodney King was not racist. He was just calling the race card. Racism against blacks is purely political, after all.


It is like the past like with African Americans has to keep being rehashed over and over. Keep the old wounds open. Make people who had no part in the holocaust always feel guilty and act as if we owe them something.


Martin Luther King Jr. once said that, if you want America to oppose racism, you have to let America see racism. So, we should look at the holocaust. We should look at the enslavement of African Americans. We should look at racism and learn how to identify it. Those who do not learn from history’s mistakes are doomed to repeat them. All knowledge is worth having, and the truth is worth pursing for its own sake.


I mean by you showing me those video of those African Americans hell I always seen it like that. In fact I get pissed off every time the black race card is thrown if someone so much as make a joke about African Americans. It makes us look sensitive and make people not even want to deal with us. Unless there is a clear indication of racism toward African Americans like them being denied somewhere while whites get accepted or unacceptable police brutality towards them etc.., then that's being racist.


So sometimes it’s not political. Sometimes it’s legitimately exposing racism. The same is true with racism against the Jews. Sometimes when you call somebody or something anti-Semitic, they really are anti-Semitic.


Seraph of course it isn't an eye opener for you I am not at least bit surprised. Trust me your opinion hasn't evolved either ever since the first time I met you especially after that comment you made previously in the past even if Israel was wrong you would still support them. You haven't shown me any proof to make my opinion evolve but confirm it even more. I was called an anti-semite by you and others for criticizing Israel but none could actually find a single bad thing I said about Jews as a whole. Thats why I wanted to see this video because it just shows what happens to me happens to many others as well.


Everybody else who’s been around since then seems to disagree, for better or worse. Everyone else seems to think that my opinion has evolved, and I most certainly know it has. I don’t recall having ever said I would support Israel if they were wrong. In truth, I don’t support Israel. I don’t send Israel money, I don’t join political rallies, and I don’t do anything along those lines. In fact, I made a thread advocating a complete and immediate halt of all foreign aid going into Israel.

I’m simply trying to uncover the whole truth. I just want to know where the facts are and what those stubborn little creatures say.

As far as your racism against the Jews, we’ve had this conversation a hundred times in the past and I’m not having it again. It is enough to note that I did not bring it up, and your quickness to defend yourself against an accusation that was not made suggests only that the accusation is true.


So I am sorry Seraph now that I know what I know you can never make me turn a blind eye towards Palestine.


I have no intention of making you turn a blind eye to Palestine. A hundred times and more I have acknowledge the plight of the Palestinians. The difference is that I am not content find facts to support what I want to be true. Instead, I bought a copy of Norman Finkelstein’s book. You don’t believe me? Here, video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raNUKfZpH1g

I look at all the information, the whole truth. If I were turning a blind eye to the Palestinians, I would not have spent my money to read Norman Finkelstein’s anti-Israel political activism.


EDIT:

Watch the video I posted in my first video. The one about the "race card, card." Kind of like how you notice whenever somebody tries to silence an anti-Israel political activist by calling them racist, but you never seem bothered by the fact that Norman Finkelstein calls pretty much everyone who disagrees with him racist against the Arabs.

Edit-Edit:

Also, you turn a blind eye towards Palestine all the time. You ignore the suffering inflicted upon them by Hamas in virtually every discussion we have on the issue. You ignore the suffering inflicted upon the Palestinians by other Arabs nations and Muslim forces as well.

You’re not pro-Palestine, you’re anti-Israel. There’s a distinct difference. This thread is a good example. You're not defending the Palestinians, you're attacking Israel. You're interested in hurting Israel, not helping Palestine, and that's the problem I have. You also refuse to accept the idea that Israel might have possibly done something good or right at some point in its history. Everything Israel does you twist into some kind of anti-Arab conspiracy. Like I said in the opening, if Israel walked around giving free blow jobs and pizza to the Palestinians, you would call it a propaganda campaign.
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Posted 2/20/10 , edited 2/20/10
Once again you prove my point because you cant recognize that I am criticizing Israel becasue of her actions but you say it is because I am anti-Israel and thats all.

Sorry for my late response my friend started his own forum and I have been much more active on that one. Anyways I have not seen an anti-semitie who the ADL went after who really deep down hates Jews for just being Jews. If you watched the video the majority of people who are almost similar to this just lets it slip out the their tongue due to anger. One woman called saying a police called her a "Jew scumbag". Those are the types of cases in which the ADL can truly say one is being anti-semite but really I think thats coming more out of anger to what that individual did so by smearing her and her being a jew would hurt her even more. Like I stated many times it shouldnt be in this country politicians are to afraid to say anything about Israel's actions towards Palestinians. They can criticize any other country but that one and this is where the ADL and other organization similar to them shine. They really watch out for these people especially intelligent ones whose voice is loud and heard by many. They will try very hard just like some did me on this forum nit pick and something very tiny about what I said and blow it out of porportion and try to link it to me saying this is how every Jew acts. This action is wrong but it is working thus and also still proves my point in the USA it is very hard to criticize Israel due to these percuasions.

Now Seraph I am sorry it is just hard for me to believe many things of what you say. You flipped flopped on on so many issues and you justify just like my media does everything Israel does even the use of white phos gas. White phos which killed many civilians do you know what it does? When inhaled in burns you inside out and then you wonder why people are so angry with Israel for using such extreme chemical weaponry on a weak third world country? You wonder how a little Palestinian kid can watch how Israel keeps their country in a jail cell only allowing minimal aid in? They watch bulldozing, murdering of Palestinian family members and then you come to me asking why they support hamas? Why they have so much resent against Israel? I mean this should be common sense how would you react if you were living in a cage like that? Where nothing comes in or out unless Israel says so.

Lol you tell me I dont recognize any good Israel does. Ok Israel helped out Haiti which is in fact a good deed. But see this is bullshit to me I am sorry. They are only doing this to try to improve their look around the world but it isnt working. While Haiti's natural disater was caused by an earthquake. Palestine is caused by Israel's occupation. Children has been spotted digging through trash to eat. Where is the aid Israel sending to palestine? The rush of ambulances etc? So when you look at how Israel treats Palestine you call bullshit and yet another attempt Israel uses to cover up their actions. I mean I just dont get Israel anytime something happens to them they try to use the deaths of the innocent victims of the halocaust to cover them. This is terrible these people did not give their lives just so Israel can abuse and treat a third world country just the same. I can see this fact, many Americans can see it, Israeli jews and other Jews arond the world can see this as well. This is why we all rise against Israel speaking with the same voice. Yet here you have you and many others trying to desperately to ignore this is make this into a religious or just down right hate for Israel for no reason.

Just like in that conference people ignore Israel's policy and just think we hate them for
1. Just being Jews
2. Because he is a muslim

All other facts I presented and many others just get ignored. This is why you said I am anti-israel and you didnt bother explaining why. You fail to see just like many in that conference it is due to Israels actions and nothing else. That last paragraph is just opinioned and another smear to ignore the facts against Israel. In fact I was about to start another thread when I get off my ass to show how now in Israels media that last attack before Obama was already planned. They know about we just dont because it never got reported. Now how vile and wicked is that?
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Posted 2/20/10

drizza wrote: Once again you prove my point because you can’t recognize that I am criticizing Israel because of her actions but you say it is because I am anti-Israel and that’s all.


I did not say that you were anti-Israel and that’s all. I just said that you were anti-Israel. You don’t seriously deny this charge, do you? What else you are or do was never addressed in my comment.


Sorry for my late response my friend started his own forum and I have been much more active on that one


You posted a response at your earliest convenience, what else can I ask?


Anyways I have not seen an anti-semitie who the ADL went after who really deep down hates Jews for just being Jews. If you watched the video the majority of people who are almost similar to this just lets it slip out the their tongue due to anger. One woman called saying a police called her a "Jew scumbag". Those are the types of cases in which the ADL can truly say one is being anti-semite but really I think thats coming more out of anger to what that individual did so by smearing her and her being a jew would hurt her even more.


How do you judge what’s “deep down inside” somebody’s heart and mind if not by their words and actions? I think you may be right, but what is your assumption based on beyond making a gut-assumption about somebody you don’t know?

The problem I have with the ADL is that it spends all of its time addressing the anti-Semites and not the anti-Semitism. In my opinion this is defamation itself. To battle prejudice they are becoming equally prejudice against the prejudice, and this only stirs up more mutual animosity. It exacerbates the situation. I make this point in my “race card, card” video on youtube. We focus too much on the individuals when the individuals are not important. It’s what they stand for that really matters. When we focus all our hate on the sinner, there’s no more room to hate the sin.


Like I stated many times it shouldn’t be in this country politicians are too afraid to say anything about Israel's actions towards Palestinians. They can criticize any other country but that one.


Politicians are afraid to say anything that might disagree with their opinions of their constituents. For example, you would not go into California and criticize Planned Parenthood. You would not come to Texas and declared that you want to triple the taxes for Obama’s newest state-funded health care program. Well, maybe you would do these things, but a politician would not.

You might as well just get down to the core of it and say, “It shouldn’t be in this country that people support Israel. People should agree with me.”

It is a symptom of democracy that politicians are afraid to say things that voters disagree with. You cannot have one without the other and I would therefore argue that politicians SHOULD be afraid in this instance.

Yet, I am not entirely convinced that our politicians are afraid to speak out against Israel. I think most of them are just pro-Israel themselves. We have had presidents who have criticized Israel, senators who have criticized Israel, and state legislators who have criticized Israel.

Carter spoke out against Israel from the time he was in college and still managed to pursue a vastly successful political career that culminated in 8 consecutive years of presidency.

Ronald Reagan was more moderate than Carter on the issue, but he criticized Israel very harshly on many occasions. Ronald Reagan blamed Israel for the failed peace, saying that if Israel wanted peace it would have to send that signal by halting the construction of Jewish settlements in the Westbank. He criticized Israel for the use of its cluster munitions and even went so far as to ban the trade of such weapons with Israel throughout his presidency. Reagan is now remembered as the best president of the twentieth century by conservatives.

A very large number of politicians and senators have spoken out against Israel with no repercussions. They are simply expected to use some measure of tact, as with every other issue. The problem is that this issue, like abortion, is controversial. Many politicians lose their head and let raw emotions take over when discussing it. Much of the backlash would’ve resulted no matter what issue they were talking about. Like when Ron Paul lost his head and said he wanted to pull out the vermin gun and root out the illegal immigrants. That had nothing to do with Israel, but people got pissed.

On the other hand, I don’t think that any elected public figure can criticize any nation and get away without some form of political backlash. Remember whenever Obama spoke out against Iran? There were at least four threads created here on Crunchy Roll in which users angrily ranted about how he was playing “The Drum Beats of War.”


and this is where the ADL and other organization similar to them shine. hey really watch out for these people especially intelligent ones whose voice is loud and heard by many.


What that you were alive at the time and had an opportunity, would you go after Hitler or a Nazi foot soldier? It makes since that they target intelligent figures in a position of power because these individuals are the leaders of their respective movements.

I do agree that the ADL is particularly quick to call somebody an anti-Semite, however. Yet, they are not always wrong. Many of the times their accusations turn out to be true. You simply have to judge based on an individual, case-by-case basis. You can’t just call the “race card, card” and close your ears. How is that any different than Obama trying to close down Faux news? It’s just censorship. You don’t like what an information source is saying/arguing for, so you tell everyone to discredit everything they say. It’s called generic fallacy.

Also, it’s not just the ADL. Look at how Planned Parenthood has convinced people that you’re a hyper-religious, misogynist, male chauvinist pig, woman-hating fascist because you disagree with abortion. Look at how the inaptly named “American Life League,” has tried to claim that every major pro-choice political activist in the history of America is a skin-head white supremacist. Look at how Alan Dershowitz and Norman Finkelstein have literally written thousands of pages against one another and yet both fail to address the other’s argument in 90% of the instances.

What also annoys me about that little bout is that neither Dershowitz nor Finkelstein ever seem to address any of the specific charges brought against them. That’s a different topic though.


They will try very hard just like some did me on this forum nit pick and something very tiny about what I said and blow it out of porportion and try to link it to me saying this is how every Jew acts


I don’t think that it was a matter of people nit-picking you, Drizza. Neither of us has shown much restraint in speaking our minds, so forgive me if I don’t start now. I think that, giving you the benefit of the doubt, the failure is in your ability to communicate. If I assume that you are not an anti-Semite, then I must assume (as you have repeatedly argued,) that you didn’t mean the anti-Semitic comments you made. We’ve been over this before though. You make a statement like, “the Jews stole land from the Palestinians,” and then somebody says, “that’s racist,” and you rebut, “I was talking about the Jewish Zionists in Palestine, not all of the Jews,” and then I’ll come in and say, “That’s not what you said though. You said the Jews,” and then you’ll accuse me of trying to silence you by calling the anti-Semite card.

Hey! I just covered the whole course of this segment of our discussion! Let’s skip it.


This action is wrong but it is working thus and also still proves my point in the USA it is very hard to criticize Israel due to these percuasions.


The only real persecution acting as preventatives I am noticing on this issue in the USA (and really the western world,) is the persecution against those who are assumed to support Israel.

In 1995 armed gunmen massacred Jews in Seattle, Washington. In 2006 another armed assailant rushed into Seattle’s Jewish Federation and gunned down six women. In both instances the gunmen explained that they were sick of the Jews and their organizations supporting Israel and pushing the Arab/Muslims around.

The car bombing on the world trade centers, two other foiled terrorist attempts on the world trade centers, and 9/11 were all brought on to persecute Americans for supporting Israel.

The Mumbai terrorist attacks were, in part, to punish support of Israel. (Hints they targeted Jews and Jewish facilities.) The Munich Massacre was to stop people from acknowledging Israel as a state worthy of taking part in the Olympics. The hijacking of planes and kidnapping of industrialists in Germany during the German Autumn incidents were designed to punish support of Israel. The London bombings, the 1976 hijack of flight 139 from Athens to Paris, the attempted bombing of Brooklyn subway in 1997, and the attempted slaughter of faculty at two Jewish facilities in Nashville in 2004--all of these are instances of persecution in America and the western world to prevent people from expressing their solidarity with Israel.

Yet, I can think of no instance in which somebody was killed for saying that they disagree with Israel. I cannot think of one instance in the history of modern western civilization in which a population was massacred because they were assumed to be pro-Palestine or anti-Israel.

This begs the question, which side is really facing persecution for their opinions? Did a group of extremely pro-Israel radicals take it upon themselves to smash a fully loaded 747 into Burj Khalifa? No, a group of extremely anti-Israel radicals took it upon themselves to smash into the Twin Towers and the Pentagon and then blame the Jews for that too.

The only evidence anyone has ever offered me that there is active persecution against people in America for supporting Israel is Norman Finkelstein’s supposedly dismissal for having anti-Israel opinions. This, of course, is absurd because all of the universities he accuses of taking part in a “contrivance,” to destroy his career because of his radical opinions have other professors and faculty members who’re ant-Israel or pro-Palestinian and yet still work there.


Now Seraph I am sorry it is just hard for me to believe many things of what you say. You flipped flopped on so many issues and you justify just like my media does everything Israel does


It’s a little hard to believe that somebody is being honest on an issue if their opinions don’t periodically change with the revelation of new information. You cannot have a 100% consistent perspective and be open minded unless you just happened to guess right the very first time. The fact that my opinion has changed is only evidence that I’m acknowledging that I was wrong.


even the use of white phos gas. White phos which killed many civilians do you know what it does? When inhaled in burns you inside out and then you wonder why people are so angry with Israel for using such extreme chemical weaponry on a weak third world country?


The word many is relative. I don’t think that the Gaza campaign killed very many civilians at all if you compare it to similar instances of modern warfare against urban guerilla forces. On February 13, 1991 the UN coalition forces killed about 500 women and children with a single smart-bomb. That’s about the same number of total civilian casualties inflicted upon Gaza during Operation Cast Lead.

The 1991 Gulf War lasted about 4 days and yet killed 30,000 people. Operation cast Lead lasted about four times as long and killed 1,400 people. An average week in Iraq ended 3,000 lives. That’s a 9/11 every week. That means that the Iraq war was 4 times as fatal as Operation Cast Lead during an average phase. The allies who stormed the beaches of Normandy to liberate France from Nazi Germany killed 70,000 French civilians.

I disagree with abortion. Yet, if a woman obtained an abortion is response to rape and you called her a malicious, homicidal, evil, Nazi I would rise up and defend her. I do not agree with the use of white phosphorescence (which according to the Goldstone Report is not a chemical weapon or in any way classified as such under any circumstances,) but Hamas was the rapist in this instance.

In terms of international law, it’s completely legal to use WP to create a smoke-screen. Hamas fled into the cities of Gaza and so the fighting took place in Gaza. WP is the best tool for creating a smoke-screen during a combat situation, and all of the combat situations took place in the cities. It stands to reason that, if Israel is giving its soldiers the best smoke screen it can, they would use WP in the cities. That’s not to say what they did is acceptable, only to point out that there is no evidence of malicious intention--only reckless disregard for international regulations which.


You wonder how a little Palestinian kid can watch how Israel keeps their country in a jail cell only allowing minimal aid in? They watch bulldozing, murdering of Palestinian family members and then you come to me asking why they support hamas? Why they have so much resent against Israel? I mean this should be common sense how would you react if you were living in a cage like that? Where nothing comes in or out unless Israel says so.

According to Norman Finkelstein’s, “Beyond Chutzpah,” and other sources (sources that you have cited at me in the past,) the humanitarian crises in Gaza resulted from Israel’s collectively punishing the population during “Operation Summer Rains.” Operation Summer Rains was an illegal response to the illegal abduction of Gilad Shalit during a peace-time. The illegal abduction of Gilad Shalit took place following Hamas’ victory in the public elections. Hamas victory in the public elections took place after Israel ethnically cleansed Gaza of its Jewish population, began dismantling settlements in the Westbank, and started taking steps to remove the wall.

Hamas had popular support before the humanitarian crises in Gaza, so it is absurd to accredit the popular support of Hamas in Gaza to the humanitarian crises. An effect cannot precede its cause. The humanitarian crises began after Operation Summer Rains. Operation Summer Rains began after Hamas demonstrated its popular support.

Sure, the conflict obviously contributes--but stop pretending that government sponsored propaganda, and schools that educate children to hate, and children shows about Jew-Eating bunnies that teach children that there is no greater honor than to die in a murderous rampage against Jewish civilians, and religious fervors do not contribute.


Lol you tell me I dont recognize any good Israel does. Ok Israel helped out Haiti which is in fact a good deed. But see this is bullshit to me I am sorry. They are only doing this to try to improve their look around the world but it isnt working.


Do you see why this is a problematic stance you are taking? No matter what Israel does, you can claim that it is a part of some contrivance to pimp their look around the world. Like I said, Israel could walk around giving out free pizza and blow-jobs to the Palestinians and it would be a conspiracy of propaganda. Whenever Israel ethnically cleansed Gaza of its Jewish inhabitants, began tearing down settlements in the Westbank, and started taking steps to remove the blockade…that was just a campaign to cover up how evil they are. No matter what concession Israel makes to the peace process, it’s just Israel trying to improve its international image. This is precisely why so many peace processes between Israel and the Arabs have failed.


While Haiti's natural disater was caused by an earthquake. Palestine is caused by Israel's occupation.


No, during the time that Israel occupied Gaza life there was no humanitarian crises. Israel was able to monitor civil affairs and keep terrorist subverted without large scale military operations like Summer Rains or Cast Lead. After they left the terrorists took power and it required both operations to wrench it back out of their blood stained hands. Westbank is occupied by Israel, and yet there is no humanitarian crisis there.

Palestine’s disaster was caused by Hamas rise to power. Israel may have obtained the abortion, but Hamas was the rapist that put them in the position where such an operation was necessary. Before Hamas rose to power and kidnapped Gilad Shalit, both sides were making mutual concessions to peace. Rocket attacks into Israel were down something like 80%, and Israel was returning occupied territory.

Israel returned the Sinai Peninsula with no problem, in accordance with resolution 242.


Yet here you have you and many others trying to desperately to ignore this is make this into a religious or just down right hate for Israel for no reason.


I don’t ignore it. Actually, I just purchased an HBO film documentary called “Death in Gaza,” about that very thing. It follows a group of Palestinian children around during one of Israel’s largest military operations in Gaza and interviews them and their families. At the end the film maker gets shot by an Israeli soldier.

I acknowledge their suffering--I acknowledge the horrible things that happen to them. I simply accredit this to the rape, not the abortion itself.


All other facts I presented and many others just get ignored. This is why you said I am anti-israel and you didnt bother explaining why. You fail to see just like many in that conference it is due to Israels actions and nothing else. That last paragraph is just opinioned and another smear to ignore the facts against Israel. In fact I was about to start another thread when I get off my ass to show how now in Israels media that last attack before Obama was already planned. They know about we just dont because it never got reported. Now how vile and wicked is that?


The vile thing is that we pay so much attention to the Israel Palestine conflict that we overlook other, larger humanitarian issues.
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Posted 2/25/10 , edited 2/25/10

drizza wrote:
You wonder how a little Palestinian kid can watch how Israel keeps their country in a jail cell only allowing minimal aid in? They watch bulldozing, murdering of Palestinian family members and then you come to me asking why they support hamas? Why they have so much resent against Israel? I mean this should be common sense how would you react if you were living in a cage like that? Where nothing comes in or out unless Israel says so




Paragraph 313 on pages 95-96 of the Goldstone Report reads:



The series of economic and political measures imposed against the Gaza Strip began around February 2006 with the Hamas electoral victory in the legislative elections. This was also accompanied by the withholding of financial support for the Gaza Strip by some donor countries and actions of other countries that amounted to open or tacit support of the Israeli blockade. Hamas took over effective power in the Gaza Strip on 15 June 2007. Shortly thereafter Israeldeclared the Gaza Strip a “hostile territory,”188 enacting a series of economic, social and military measures purportedly designed to isolate and strangle Hamas. These have made a deep impact on
the population’s living standards.



As I attested in my previous post, the Hamas electoral victory came before the humanitarian crises in Gaza. Indeed, Hamas coup and the abduction of Gilad Shalit (which happened ten days later,) also predate the blockade. The Palestinians did not elect Hamas because Israel was collectively punishing them, Israel collectively (and wrongly,) punished them because they elected Hamas and Hamas kidnapped Gilad Shalit.

Can you at least acknowledge this chronological fact?

Israel also had the support of other nations, and not just the United States. Even the moderate Arab nations like Egypt.
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