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What is the 'Self'?
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Posted 2/10/10
what is the 'self'? who are you? who am i? who are we?

How do u define yourself? and How does that make you who you are? How can you tell if its not just a part of you? or an attribute of you? How do u know if its the whole you?

How do you know you are you? Ever been to a foriegn country before? where you didnt know or understand the language? were you still you, even though you couldnt express yourself to the general population?Without language, could you even be a 'you'?

What is the self? as an identity...

i consider myself a martial artist/fighter...but is that all i am? if i add to the lists, will that make up who and what i am? Is there not one word that can summarize me? would many words just be a charactization of me? or parts of me? who are you? who am i? who are we?

Does the self even exists? or is it just a stream of conscienous?

your thoughts (and no, im not high... ) peace over war

Posted 2/10/10
I can't say with certainty about what I will become in the future. But I can say with conviction of who I was in the past with my history. And I'll never stop with what I do for that's who I am.

And with that principle is the ground of abstract thinking; using our imagination of our individual self-perceptions, to define who we are beyond our mere concrete and physical selves.

And just like that, I can be anything I wanted to be. Without me needing anyone's but my own approval with what I do. That's how even when I don't have a diploma in social science, I still managed to figure out how it works through my own effort and conviction.

In fact, it's the same principle for an martial artist to have confident with one's form and movement. In order for one to realizes one's own body is responding to one's will, without one constantly checking oneself in front of a mirror.
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Posted 2/12/10 , edited 2/28/10
It's experience.

When applied to higher thinking it's awareness.

What makes self so cool is it's unique to you.







JR the Third: Prince
http://besaga.blogspot.com/


Wraithverge wrote:

The self is the definition you and others have for your persona. There is more than one you, but the most important is the you seen by yourself. If you perceive that you are scum and drag your way through life, then that is likely all you are. If you lighten up a bit, then you'll see much better things happening for you than you ever thought possible.


Good point

Other people build and affect your persona, I think I know who I am... but it's also how other's treat me that verifies one way or another.

If everyone started calling me a criminal I might start to doubt about who I think I am.





JR the Third: Prince
http://besaga.blogspot.com/

~~~
Please don't double post. Use the "edit" Button next time. Thanks ~Kippu
Posted 2/12/10 , edited 2/12/10

JRtheThird wrote:


Wraithverge wrote:

The self is the definition you and others have for your persona. There is more than one you, but the most important is the you seen by yourself. If you perceive that you are scum and drag your way through life, then that is likely all you are. If you lighten up a bit, then you'll see much better things happening for you than you ever thought possible.


Good point

Other people build and affect your persona, I think I know who I am... but it's also how other's treat me that verifies one way or another.

If everyone started calling me a criminal I might start to doubt about who I think I am.






JR the Third: Prince
But what if those who called you a criminal are in fact criminals in their own rights? In other words, what validates them to be a good judge of your character? When there's more than one perspective in human society under human laws.

Therefore regardless of what others call you, as long as you don't consent with them, that's not the real you now, is it?
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Posted 2/12/10

DomFortress wrote:


JRtheThird wrote:


Wraithverge wrote:

The self is the definition you and others have for your persona. There is more than one you, but the most important is the you seen by yourself. If you perceive that you are scum and drag your way through life, then that is likely all you are. If you lighten up a bit, then you'll see much better things happening for you than you ever thought possible.


Good point

Other people build and affect your persona, I think I know who I am... but it's also how other's treat me that verifies one way or another.

If everyone started calling me a criminal I might start to doubt about who I think I am.






JR the Third: Prince
But what if those who called you a criminal are in fact criminals in their own rights? In other words, what validates them to be a good judge of your character? When there's more than one perspective in human society under human laws.

Therefore regardless of what others call you, as long as you don't consent with them, that's not the real you now, is it?


That is the funny thing, nothing validates anyone to be a good judge of your character.

However, others observations (no matter how inaccurate) tend to make us question who we are.

And in come cases some of the more weak willed individuals fall victim to other people's judgements... (It might sound bad) but if you are weak will and easily fall sway to other people oppinions of you that is your 'self.' (it is also shown that if you sometimes live a illusion long enough that can become who you are).

If you are strong willed and oppose the masses for an internal calling then that is your 'self.'

That's why I say 'self' is experience as well as awareness. Because the minute your 'self' begins to interact with others is the minute your 'self' begins to change and mold.

Added note: One can also say the strong will and the weak will is an innate gift uneffected by experience.

Because as history shows there have been people who triumphed over adversity.

Added Added note lolz: Other people build and affect your persona, either directly or if you don't fall sway to their judgement then it's a reinforcement of who you are.

For example: I could steal once and know I'm doing it for my family. Others call me a criminal but I know im a hero to my starving kids.

However if I keep stealing all while knowing im hurting others and starting to enjoy to excitement, then I start to question if I am what other people say.
Posted 2/12/10

JRtheThird wrote:



That is the funny thing, nothing validates anyone to be a good judge of your character.

However, others observations (no matter how inaccurate) tend to make us question who we are.

And in come cases some of the more weak willed individuals fall victim to other people's judgements... (It might sound bad) but if you are weak will and easily fall sway to other people oppinions of you that is your 'self.' (it is also shown that if you sometimes live a illusion long enough that can become who you are).

If you are strong willed and oppose the masses for an internal calling then that is your 'self.'

That's why I say 'self' is experience as well as awareness. Because the minute your 'self' begins to interact with others is the minute your 'self' begins to change and mold.

Added note: One can also say the strong will and the weak will is an innate gift uneffected by experience.

Because as history shows there have been people who triumphed over adversity.

Added Added note lolz: Other people build and affect your persona, either directly or if you don't fall sway to their judgement then it's a reinforcement of who you are.

For example: I could steal once and know I'm doing it for my family. Others call me a criminal but I know im a hero to my starving kids.

However if I keep stealing all while knowing im hurting others and starting to enjoy to excitement, then I start to question if I am what other people say.
You think that's funny? You should really observe how I can mess around with someone's psyche. You might learn a thing or two.
Posted 2/12/10
self is what we define and perceive as us. who we are and what we do and how we react contribute to self which changes through experiences. tabula rasa - John Locke
Posted 2/13/10 , edited 2/13/10
"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven
Posted 2/14/10 , edited 2/14/10

Thorn77 wrote:

"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven
That only means you never had an original though or feeling, and you had no standards and values of your own. Your brain is thereby only capable of perfect copy and paste.

Therefore the fact that you just made an original respond completely debunked your theory, when you have a self that "denies" its own existence. In fact, you drawing an conclusion based on your observation means that you are at least self-aware.
Posted 2/14/10

DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:

"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven
That only means you never had an original though or feeling, and you had no standards and values of your own. Your brain is thereby only capable of perfect copy and paste.

Therefore the fact that you just made an original respond completely debunked your theory, when you have a self that "denies" its own existence. In fact, you drawing an conclusion based on your observation means that you are at least self-aware.


Oh is that so? well I can't recall saying that In fact new Ideas can't be discovered, which is my goal in life, to find the Truth. But I also think that There are many copies in this world or dimension, which ever you prefer, But then again all life is just a bunch of theories, nothing can be proven. There I go again, contradicting myself, oh well. Life's a big contradiction anyhow.....
Posted 2/14/10

Thorn77 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:

"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven
That only means you never had an original though or feeling, and you had no standards and values of your own. Your brain is thereby only capable of perfect copy and paste.

Therefore the fact that you just made an original respond completely debunked your theory, when you have a self that "denies" its own existence. In fact, you drawing an conclusion based on your observation means that you are at least self-aware.


Oh is that so? well I can't recall saying that In fact new Ideas can't be discovered, which is my goal in life, to find the Truth. But I also think that There are many copies in this world or dimension, which ever you prefer, But then again all life is just a bunch of theories, nothing can be proven. There I go again, contradicting myself, oh well. Life's a big contradiction anyhow.....
So get your act together, for it's embarrassing to see your whole life as one big contradiction. When you're not even getting paid for your trouble.

Still think that "theory" of mine can be proven wrong?
Posted 2/14/10

DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:

"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven
That only means you never had an original though or feeling, and you had no standards and values of your own. Your brain is thereby only capable of perfect copy and paste.

Therefore the fact that you just made an original respond completely debunked your theory, when you have a self that "denies" its own existence. In fact, you drawing an conclusion based on your observation means that you are at least self-aware.


Oh is that so? well I can't recall saying that In fact new Ideas can't be discovered, which is my goal in life, to find the Truth. But I also think that There are many copies in this world or dimension, which ever you prefer, But then again all life is just a bunch of theories, nothing can be proven. There I go again, contradicting myself, oh well. Life's a big contradiction anyhow.....
So get your act together, for it's embarrassing to see your whole life as one big contradiction. When you're not even getting paid for your trouble.

Still think that "theory" of mine can be proven wrong?


Well I really don't know....and I'm sorry for wasting your time...It's just me projecting my own insecurities on the world....As I try to find The Truth....well thank you...
Posted 2/14/10

Thorn77 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:

"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven
That only means you never had an original though or feeling, and you had no standards and values of your own. Your brain is thereby only capable of perfect copy and paste.

Therefore the fact that you just made an original respond completely debunked your theory, when you have a self that "denies" its own existence. In fact, you drawing an conclusion based on your observation means that you are at least self-aware.


Oh is that so? well I can't recall saying that In fact new Ideas can't be discovered, which is my goal in life, to find the Truth. But I also think that There are many copies in this world or dimension, which ever you prefer, But then again all life is just a bunch of theories, nothing can be proven. There I go again, contradicting myself, oh well. Life's a big contradiction anyhow.....
So get your act together, for it's embarrassing to see your whole life as one big contradiction. When you're not even getting paid for your trouble.

Still think that "theory" of mine can be proven wrong?


Well I really don't know....and I'm sorry for wasting your time...It's just me projecting my own insecurities on the world....As I try to find The Truth....well thank you...
That' OK. Everyone goes through that phase of growing up, myself included.

Just focus on what you're good at and develop them as your personal set of skills, for it will be the reflection of your character strengths and virtues. Insecurity is caused by uncertainty, and when the only thing that's uncertain is our future that has yet come to past. All you can think about is what you gonna do for yourself.
Posted 2/14/10

DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Thorn77 wrote:

"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven
That only means you never had an original though or feeling, and you had no standards and values of your own. Your brain is thereby only capable of perfect copy and paste.

Therefore the fact that you just made an original respond completely debunked your theory, when you have a self that "denies" its own existence. In fact, you drawing an conclusion based on your observation means that you are at least self-aware.


Oh is that so? well I can't recall saying that In fact new Ideas can't be discovered, which is my goal in life, to find the Truth. But I also think that There are many copies in this world or dimension, which ever you prefer, But then again all life is just a bunch of theories, nothing can be proven. There I go again, contradicting myself, oh well. Life's a big contradiction anyhow.....
So get your act together, for it's embarrassing to see your whole life as one big contradiction. When you're not even getting paid for your trouble.

Still think that "theory" of mine can be proven wrong?


Well I really don't know....and I'm sorry for wasting your time...It's just me projecting my own insecurities on the world....As I try to find The Truth....well thank you...
That' OK. Everyone goes through that phase of growing up, myself included.

Just focus on what you're good at and develop them as your personal set of skills, for it will be the reflection of your character strengths and virtues. Insecurity is caused by uncertainty, and when the only thing that's uncertain is our future that has yet come to past. All you can think about is what you gonna do for yourself.


You have no idea as to what your talking about, but then again neither do I....talk to ya later old guy..
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Posted 2/15/10

Thorn77 wrote:

"self" does not exist....In theory nothing exists...every thing is told to you, and you believe it. we, are all a multitude of thoughts. Out of the womb we come..and into existence we are thrown...formless we are influenced at every turn, first by our mother, then father, family, friends, and so on, A cruel game being played by god, the universe or what ever you prefer....but it is true....when we look into "self" what is left aside from the memories that are not ours and the things we aspire to be....nothing....nothing is left but a sad being asking what he is and who he should be....


-Seven


Actually when debating using ontology most people realize 'nothing' or literal 'non-existence' does not exist and cannot exist as its very idea is a contradiction to all that currently exists (mind you I am not talking about mathematic equation symbols used to represent nothing).


A good test of this is I ask you to visualize nothing... what do you see?

If it's all black it's still something, if it's all white it's still something. Even the actual notion of true 'nothingness' is inconceivable.

That absolute can't exist (partially) in a reality of scale.

Any Idea of nothingness you have is an illusion... all there really is, is displacement.
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