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Your Opinion Does not Count Because…
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Posted 3/1/10 , edited 4/29/10
A while back I came across a debate on capitalism v. socialism that somebody had uploaded on youtube. It was essentially a libertarian (kind of like Ron Paul,) arguing with a pseudo-socialist. The former individual went in and he defended his position with that ever-so-famous “rich people work for their money and should not be punished for their success,” argument. That’s fine. I don’t entirely agree with the argument but it’s a legitimate approach nonetheless. The pseudo-socialist responded by saying, “Well, you only feel that way because you’re rich and you don’t know what it’s like to be poor.”

A more common employment of this tactic is seen in the abortion argument on a regular basis. “You’re a man and can’t get pregnant so you only have that opinion because you don’t understand what it’s like to be pregnant…”


I talk about this on my you-tube chan. You can find the video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lEjpwR4T3o

Or the chan itself here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/WarThemedRevolution

First off, I think that’s bull. Still, let’s make the concession and say that my savage male mind is too chauvinistic to comprehend pregnancy. My opinions and arguments are still worthy and their validity is in no way mitigated.

I don’t know what it is like to be shot at. I do not know what it’s like to starve. I do not know what it’s like to be burnt by white phosphorescence or live in a town victimized by illegal terrorism on a daily basis. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion on war? I do not know what it is like to starve. Does that mean that I cannot have an opinion on world hunger? I do not know what it is like to be a terrorist. Does that mean I cannot oppose terrorism? I do not know what it’s like to be the president of the United States. Does that mean I am not allowed to disapprove of Obama’s agenda or Bush’s decisions?

Not at all, and if it did then none of us would have any opinions about almost any political topic. Oh, and here’s a flip. Pregnant mothers don’t know what it’s like to be aborted. Does that mean that only fetuses’ should be allowed to have an opinion on abortion? That we should disregard all arguments not put down on paper by a prenatal human specimen?

In my sociology class I recently found out that I’m classified as lower middle class. I honestly considered myself upper middle class. The lady who produced Harry Potter is classified as lower upper class, when I would’ve put her right up there with the elite of the elite.

Clearly I do not understand what it is to be rich. Does that mean that I cannot disagree with the actions industrialists tycoons like Rockefeller--driving employees into a perpetual debtor’s prison until they are forced to live as virtual indentured servants with zero chance of material success in life?
Posted 3/1/10
I have always held it in my heart that money is worthless. You can buy things with money, but you cannot buy true affection. There are people who've gone their whole lives worrying about how much money they make, and for what? Status. It's just like everything else that has no emotions tied to it. A business tycoon could give a shit less about about the welfare of his employees so long as his own pockets are lined and he is secure. A poor family is endangered for having a lack of funds, but may be a family with what matters more than any amount of money; love and compassion.
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Posted 3/1/10

bitter_nail wrote:

I have always held it in my heart that money is worthless. You can buy things with money, but you cannot buy true affection. There are people who've gone their whole lives worrying about how much money they make, and for what? Status. It's just like everything else that has no emotions tied to it. A business tycoon could give a shit less about about the welfare of his employees so long as his own pockets are lined and he is secure. A poor family is endangered for having a lack of funds, but may be a family with what matters more than any amount of money; love and compassion.


I wonder why it is okay to stereotype business men and rich people as immoral, greedy, subhuman demoniacs with no heart or soul but not to stereotype employees or poor people as lazy, dirty, trashy, welfare abusing, drug addict, child beating, ignorant trash. Some business tycoons do care about their employees.
Posted 3/1/10

SeraphAlford wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

I have always held it in my heart that money is worthless. You can buy things with money, but you cannot buy true affection. There are people who've gone their whole lives worrying about how much money they make, and for what? Status. It's just like everything else that has no emotions tied to it. A business tycoon could give a shit less about about the welfare of his employees so long as his own pockets are lined and he is secure. A poor family is endangered for having a lack of funds, but may be a family with what matters more than any amount of money; love and compassion.


I wonder why it is okay to stereotype business men and rich people as immoral, greedy, subhuman demoniacs with no heart or soul but not to stereotype employees or poor people as lazy, dirty, trashy, welfare abusing, drug addict, child beating, ignorant trash. Some business tycoons do care about their employees.


Name one tycoon who really does, and means it.
Yei
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Posted 3/1/10 , edited 3/1/10
You're right, that type of argument makes no sense.

In our current system, a business tycoon that has any humanity left won't last against the ones who couldn't care less about anything other than making an immediate profit. The bigger, evil, corporations tend to destroy or buy the smaller, not so insanely evil ones, so eventually all the top business elite end up having to be pure evil to get to their positions. That's the beauty of the extreme capitalist system, the most evil person causing the most destruction to the society and the world gets to be on top and do even more damage. There may be one or two exceptions of people who were able to become part of that elite circle and still keeping their humanity, that would be incredible, but I highly doubt it.

I think after becoming that rich and powerful you just becomes an oblivious shell of a former human being. The actions of corporations and many business tycoons indicate some of these people don't even care for their own grandchildren, they're just absolutely fixed on making even more money. It's pretty scary actually, the worst in humans is brought out in this system.
Posted 3/1/10

Yei wrote:

You're right, that type of argument makes no sense.

In our current system, a business tycoon that has any humanity left won't last against the ones who couldn't care less about anything other than making an immediate profit. The bigger, evil, corporations tend to destroy or buy the smaller, not so insanely evil ones, so eventually all the top business elite end up having to be pure evil to get to their positions. That's the beauty of the extreme capitalist system, the most evil person causing the most destruction to the society and the world gets to be on top and do even more damage. There may be one or two exceptions of people who were able to become part of that elite circle and still keeping their humanity, that would be incredible, but I highly doubt it.

I think after becoming that rich and powerful you just becomes an oblivious shell of a former human being. The actions of corporations and many business tycoons indicate some of these people don't even care for their own grandchildren, they're just absolutely fixed on making even more money. It's pretty scary actually, the worst in humans is brought out in this system.
What is the Five Rings Circus.
Yei
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Posted 3/1/10 , edited 3/1/10

DomFortress wrote:


Yei wrote:

You're right, that type of argument makes no sense.

In our current system, a business tycoon that has any humanity left won't last against the ones who couldn't care less about anything other than making an immediate profit. The bigger, evil, corporations tend to destroy or buy the smaller, not so insanely evil ones, so eventually all the top business elite end up having to be pure evil to get to their positions. That's the beauty of the extreme capitalist system, the most evil person causing the most destruction to the society and the world gets to be on top and do even more damage. There may be one or two exceptions of people who were able to become part of that elite circle and still keeping their humanity, that would be incredible, but I highly doubt it.

I think after becoming that rich and powerful you just becomes an oblivious shell of a former human being. The actions of corporations and many business tycoons indicate some of these people don't even care for their own grandchildren, they're just absolutely fixed on making even more money. It's pretty scary actually, the worst in humans is brought out in this system.
What is the Five Rings Circus.


I don't got time to watch it all now, is it about how it is a waste of money and effort for Vancouver to host the Olympics?
Posted 3/1/10

Yei wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Yei wrote:

You're right, that type of argument makes no sense.

In our current system, a business tycoon that has any humanity left won't last against the ones who couldn't care less about anything other than making an immediate profit. The bigger, evil, corporations tend to destroy or buy the smaller, not so insanely evil ones, so eventually all the top business elite end up having to be pure evil to get to their positions. That's the beauty of the extreme capitalist system, the most evil person causing the most destruction to the society and the world gets to be on top and do even more damage. There may be one or two exceptions of people who were able to become part of that elite circle and still keeping their humanity, that would be incredible, but I highly doubt it.

I think after becoming that rich and powerful you just becomes an oblivious shell of a former human being. The actions of corporations and many business tycoons indicate some of these people don't even care for their own grandchildren, they're just absolutely fixed on making even more money. It's pretty scary actually, the worst in humans is brought out in this system.
What is the Five Rings Circus.


I don't got time to watch it all now, is it about how it is a waste of money and effort for Vancouver to host the Olympics?
More or less, yes. But that's because it's pointless to host it at anywhere else as well.
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Posted 3/1/10

bitter_nail wrote:


Name one tycoon who really does, and means it.


What you ask is utterly impossible. I do not know what’s in anybody’s heart. How can I tell you what somebody truly feels in their heart?
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Posted 3/1/10

Yei wrote:

You're right, that type of argument makes no sense.

In our current system, a business tycoon that has any humanity left won't last against the ones who couldn't care less about anything other than making an immediate profit. The bigger, evil, corporations tend to destroy or buy the smaller, not so insanely evil ones, so eventually all the top business elite end up having to be pure evil to get to their positions. That's the beauty of the extreme capitalist system, the most evil person causing the most destruction to the society and the world gets to be on top and do even more damage. There may be one or two exceptions of people who were able to become part of that elite circle and still keeping their humanity, that would be incredible, but I highly doubt it.

I think after becoming that rich and powerful you just becomes an oblivious shell of a former human being. The actions of corporations and many business tycoons indicate some of these people don't even care for their own grandchildren, they're just absolutely fixed on making even more money. It's pretty scary actually, the worst in humans is brought out in this system.


With some incredibly rare, isolated exceptions to that norm…I suppose you’re correct. Still, we write books like “The Great Gatsby,” that do nothing but talk about how all rich people are evil and they become national classics, supposedly the best American story ever. But if it was a rich person doing it to poor people we’d be pissed and that’s not fair.
Posted 3/1/10

SeraphAlford wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:


Name one tycoon who really does, and means it.


What you ask is utterly impossible. I do not know what’s in anybody’s heart. How can I tell you what somebody truly feels in their heart?


That's right it's impossible. The swine will rule over us all so long as we let them.
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digs 
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Posted 3/2/10
What about governments? Who says they aren't more corrupt and evil then big business? Those who truly rule over us and rule over the businesses. The thing is that we need to look objectively at things. Prosperity isn't evil, governments aren't always good. People are deceived and lied to, and the deception strikes at emotions that produce an ideology. The truth is out there, but it may be too uncomfortable for most to accept it or search for it.
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Posted 3/2/10

digs wrote:

What about governments? Who says they aren't more corrupt and evil then big business? Those who truly rule over us and rule over the businesses. The thing is that we need to look objectively at things. Prosperity isn't evil, governments aren't always good. People are deceived and lied to, and the deception strikes at emotions that produce an ideology. The truth is out there, but it may be too uncomfortable for most to accept it or search for it.
I have already pointed out how to fix all of that.. And that is by rebuilding the governing system. By removing leader roles and officials from the government and create a we are government set up where all the people run the government equally with no one with power over anyone else. Plans and ideas are discussed using the computers, and voted on by everyone. (no more parties, no more Dick-taters.)
Then we can decimate corruption more by removing the currency factor, and all around illuminating the Rat race for economical gain.. Replacing it more with doing it because you enjoy it mentality. Witch will not lead to corruption and decay like what we get now.

Yei
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Posted 3/2/10 , edited 3/2/10

digs wrote:

What about governments? Who says they aren't more corrupt and evil then big business? Those who truly rule over us and rule over the businesses. The thing is that we need to look objectively at things. Prosperity isn't evil, governments aren't always good. People are deceived and lied to, and the deception strikes at emotions that produce an ideology. The truth is out there, but it may be too uncomfortable for most to accept it or search for it.


No one is saying prosperity is evil, corporations who do evil things are evil.

You're right, the government is very corrupt and horrible as well, in ways corporations could not be. Like carrying out imperialist agendas and imposing disguised social control and indoctrination methods. But another reason (probably the main reason) governments are so corrupt is corporations. They get so powerful that they begin to control government policies. So the system in the US and around the world is this corrupt alliance between the government and corporations.

It's really interesting to see confrontations between what corporations want and what the government wants, and the government interests usually come out on top, but those are not very common.
Posted 3/2/10

SeraphAlford wrote:

A while back I came across a debate on capitalism v. socialism that somebody had uploaded on youtube. It was essentially a libertarian (kind of like Ron Paul,) arguing with a pseudo-socialist. The former individual went in and he defended his position with that ever-so-famous “rich people work for their money and should not be punished for their success,” argument. That’s fine. I don’t entirely agree with the argument but it’s a legitimate approach nonetheless. The pseudo-socialist responded by saying, “Well, you only feel that way because you’re rich and you don’t know what it’s like to be poor.”

A more common employment of this tactic is seen in the abortion argument on a regular basis. “You’re a man and can’t get pregnant so you only have that opinion because you don’t understand what it’s like to be pregnant…”

First off, I think that’s bull. Still, let’s make the concession and say that my savage male mind is too chauvinistic to comprehend pregnancy. My opinions and arguments are still worthy and their validity is in no way mitigated.

I don’t know what it is like to be shot at. I do not know what it’s like to starve. I do not know what it’s like to be burnt by white phosphorescence or live in a town victimized by illegal terrorism on a daily basis. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion on war? I do not know what it is like to starve. Does that mean that I cannot have an opinion on world hunger? I do not know what it is like to be a terrorist. Does that mean I cannot oppose terrorism? I do not know what it’s like to be the president of the United States. Does that mean I am not allowed to disapprove of Obama’s agenda or Bush’s decisions?

Not at all, and if it did then none of us would have any opinions about almost any political topic. Oh, and here’s a flip. Pregnant mothers don’t know what it’s like to be aborted. Does that mean that only fetuses’ should be allowed to have an opinion on abortion? That we should disregard all arguments not put down on paper by a prenatal human specimen?

In my sociology class I recently found out that I’m classified as lower middle class. I honestly considered myself upper middle class. The lady who produced Harry Potter is classified as lower upper class, when I would’ve put her right up there with the elite of the elite.

Clearly I do not understand what it is to be rich. Does that mean that I cannot disagree with the actions industrialists tycoons like Rockefeller--driving employees into a perpetual debtor’s prison until they are forced to live as virtual indentured servants with zero chance of material success in life?


well i guess i will say it seph the way i was raised to respect other peoples opinion's no matter if you agree with them or not. I do not agree with your stance on abortion but i do respect your opinion on it..
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