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Canada and Israel
Yei
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Posted 3/13/10 , edited 3/18/10
I already knew Canada has always been one of the most pro-Israel countries in the world, never even criticizing it and even setting up a special trade agreement with it, but I never knew how much worse things were.

I have been reading a book by my favourite Canadian political author, Yves Engler, called Canada and Israel: Building Apartheid.

Yves Engler is sort of like the Canadian Noam Chomsky or William Blum, exposing all information about his country's foreign policy. (Canada isn't as innocent as people think).

I'm shocked at how involved Canada is with Zionism: there's a history of Canadian Christian Zionism, Lester Pearson had an important role in the United Nations negotiations to create a Jewish state on Palestinian land, there were millions of dollars in tax-deductable donations used to expand Israeli settlements in the West Bank and there are strong ties between Canadian Security Intelligence Service and Mossad.

It's not possible for Canada to be on the same level as the US when it comes to Israel support, but now I think if it was powerful enough it would be. When Israel recently announced new illegal settlements, even the US criticized them. I waited to see if Canada would criticize Israel too, now that the US had done it. But the current conservative government is especially pro-Israel, even trying to justify Israeli war crimes in Lebanon and Gaza. Stephen Harper seems like he doesn't know the first thing about foreign policy and just follows whatever the US's stance on any issue is. But even when the US made it's criticisms on Israel, Canada didn't say anything at first.

And then, months later (the Canadian government's a little slow), they came up with their criticism:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/778855--canada-denounces-israeli-settlement

I think this is the first time ever that Canada has done this, and it's probably only because the US did it first. (it even says so in the article)

"Canada believes that all parties should abide by their international commitments," Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon said in a statement Thursday. "This announcement does not advance the cause of peace in the region."

That's a new concept, did they not believe that during the last 43 years? Actually, the last 62 years.
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digs 
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Posted 3/13/10
I think it's great that Canada helps Israel. I don't like the settlements, but I believe Israel has every right to settle East Jerusalem. What about all the Arab nations who support Palestine? Or even those who are selling illegal weapons to terrorists? What Canada and the US are doing for Israel is good. If anything we should look at the Arab nations and illegal weapons deals going on.
Posted 3/13/10
It's surprising that anyone even cares anymore. The Middle East has been a hellish war zone for too long.
Yei
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Posted 3/13/10 , edited 3/13/10

digs wrote:

I think it's great that Canada helps Israel. I don't like the settlements, but I believe Israel has every right to settle East Jerusalem. What about all the Arab nations who support Palestine? Or even those who are selling illegal weapons to terrorists? What Canada and the US are doing for Israel is good. If anything we should look at the Arab nations and illegal weapons deals going on.


I know you have good intentions, but you should really study this issue more. You are ignorant of a lot of very important facts. There's a documentary called Occupation 101 that you should consider watching.



bitter_nail wrote:

It's surprising that anyone even cares anymore. The Middle East has been a hellish war zone for too long.


You don't know what you're talking about. The propaganda in the US seems to make people think there's this one giant religious war in all of the Middle East that's been going on for centuries and that's why there's all this violence there. I don't get it.

This topic is about Israel. Conflicts going on in the Middle East include the war in Iraq, and small violent conflicts in certain areas of Israel and Yemen. That's it. There isn't one huge eternal war going on that includes all Middle Eastern countries, that's just nonsense.
Posted 3/13/10

Yei wrote:


digs wrote:

I think it's great that Canada helps Israel. I don't like the settlements, but I believe Israel has every right to settle East Jerusalem. What about all the Arab nations who support Palestine? Or even those who are selling illegal weapons to terrorists? What Canada and the US are doing for Israel is good. If anything we should look at the Arab nations and illegal weapons deals going on.


I know you have good intentions, but you should really study this issue more. You are ignorant of a lot of very important facts. There's a documentary called Occupation 101 that you should consider watching.



bitter_nail wrote:

It's surprising that anyone even cares anymore. The Middle East has been a hellish war zone for too long.


You don't know what you're talking about. The propaganda in the US seems to make people think there's this one giant religious war in all of the Middle East that's been going on for centuries and that's why there's all this violence there. I don't get it.

This topic is about Israel. Conflicts going on in the Middle East include the war in Iraq, and small violent conflicts in certain areas of Israel and Yemen. That's it. There isn't one huge eternal war going on that includes all Middle Eastern countries, that's just nonsense.


There are separate conflicts. The Palestinians have wanted Israel to burn to the ground for quite some time. That is all I spoke of. Hard times are difficult for some people to swallow.
Yei
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Posted 3/13/10

bitter_nail wrote:

There are separate conflicts. The Palestinians have wanted Israel to burn to the ground for quite some time. That is all I spoke of. Hard times are difficult for some people to swallow.


I think most Palestinians just want statehood and for the oppression to end. Some extremists on both sides want genocide. I don't get what that has to do with caring or not caring.

It's all pretty irrelevant.
Posted 3/13/10

Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

There are separate conflicts. The Palestinians have wanted Israel to burn to the ground for quite some time. That is all I spoke of. Hard times are difficult for some people to swallow.


I think most Palestinians just want statehood and for the oppression to end. Some extremists on both sides want genocide. I don't get what that has to do with caring or not caring.

It's all pretty irrelevant.


Truly. The irrelevance is expecting everyone to care. Extremism is found anywhere. For Israel to survive, she needs the support of caring people. From within her borders and without.
Yei
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Posted 3/13/10

bitter_nail wrote:

Truly. The irrelevance is expecting everyone to care. Extremism is found anywhere. For Israel to survive, she needs the support of caring people. From within her borders and without.


Obviously..
Posted 3/13/10

Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

Truly. The irrelevance is expecting everyone to care. Extremism is found anywhere. For Israel to survive, she needs the support of caring people. From within her borders and without.


Obviously..


And yet, not so obvious. Some people do not see the world for what it is, or even exaggerate the facts. The Palestinians might for the most part come to see Israel as a good neighbor. Canada shows how much of a backbone it has by helping out with dire situations in the world, whereas my own country is breaking down and can't so much anymore. The Jews have suffered for over five thousand years everywhere they have lived. It is time for people to give it a rest.
Yei
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Posted 3/13/10 , edited 3/13/10

bitter_nail wrote:


Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

Truly. The irrelevance is expecting everyone to care. Extremism is found anywhere. For Israel to survive, she needs the support of caring people. From within her borders and without.


Obviously..


And yet, not so obvious. Some people do not see the world for what it is, or even exaggerate the facts. The Palestinians might for the most part come to see Israel as a good neighbor. Canada shows how much of a backbone it has by helping out with dire situations in the world, whereas my own country is breaking down and can't so much anymore. The Jews have suffered for over five thousand years everywhere they have lived. It is time for people to give it a rest.


The Palestinians might see Israel as a good neighbor? You mean when they get their own state? I hope so.

Canada does seem like it does a lot of good, but there's actually a lot of horrible imperialist foreign policy. For example, Canada helped get rid of the democratically elected leader of Haiti and supported the dictator that came in and ruined the country even more. And of course, it occupied Haiti, along with the US. That's just one example.

I don't know what you mean about the Jews suffering. Give what a rest?
Posted 3/13/10

Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:


Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

Truly. The irrelevance is expecting everyone to care. Extremism is found anywhere. For Israel to survive, she needs the support of caring people. From within her borders and without.


Obviously..


And yet, not so obvious. Some people do not see the world for what it is, or even exaggerate the facts. The Palestinians might for the most part come to see Israel as a good neighbor. Canada shows how much of a backbone it has by helping out with dire situations in the world, whereas my own country is breaking down and can't so much anymore. The Jews have suffered for over five thousand years everywhere they have lived. It is time for people to give it a rest.


The Palestinians might see Israel as a good neighbor? You mean when they get their own state? I hope so.

Canada does seem like it does a lot of good, but there's actually a lot of horrible imperialist foreign policy. For example, Canada helped get rid of the democratically elected leader of Haiti and supported the dictator that came in and ruined the country even more. And of course, it occupied Haiti, along with the US. That's just one example.

I don't know what you mean about the Jews suffering. Give what a rest?


The Jews have suffered through oppression worse than anyone. They endured being slaves to the Egyptians, killed and driven away by Christianity, tortured and butchered by the Nazis, and plagued still to this day by leftovers from the "Dark Ages" we've known of in modern times.

Persecution is what needs a rest, or better said, elimination. Though that is an element of our lives which will remain for many ages to come. Differences almost always create conflict. Wars rage on, whether they are cold or ordinary, and end with a horrific aftermath.
Posted 3/13/10

bitter_nail wrote:


Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:


Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

Truly. The irrelevance is expecting everyone to care. Extremism is found anywhere. For Israel to survive, she needs the support of caring people. From within her borders and without.


Obviously..


And yet, not so obvious. Some people do not see the world for what it is, or even exaggerate the facts. The Palestinians might for the most part come to see Israel as a good neighbor. Canada shows how much of a backbone it has by helping out with dire situations in the world, whereas my own country is breaking down and can't so much anymore. The Jews have suffered for over five thousand years everywhere they have lived. It is time for people to give it a rest.


The Palestinians might see Israel as a good neighbor? You mean when they get their own state? I hope so.

Canada does seem like it does a lot of good, but there's actually a lot of horrible imperialist foreign policy. For example, Canada helped get rid of the democratically elected leader of Haiti and supported the dictator that came in and ruined the country even more. And of course, it occupied Haiti, along with the US. That's just one example.

I don't know what you mean about the Jews suffering. Give what a rest?


The Jews have suffered through oppression worse than anyone. They endured being slaves to the Egyptians, killed and driven away by Christianity, tortured and butchered by the Nazis, and plagued still to this day by leftovers from the "Dark Ages" we've known of in modern times.

Persecution is what needs a rest, or better said, elimination. Though that is an element of our lives which will remain for many ages to come. Differences almost always create conflict. Wars rage on, whether they are cold or ordinary, and end with a horrific aftermath.
I think she needs a documentary film on the subject of modern prejudice of Jews, since she likes visual aids.
Yei
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Posted 3/13/10

bitter_nail wrote:
The Jews have suffered through oppression worse than anyone. They endured being slaves to the Egyptians, killed and driven away by Christianity, tortured and butchered by the Nazis, and plagued still to this day by leftovers from the "Dark Ages" we've known of in modern times.

Persecution is what needs a rest, or better said, elimination. Though that is an element of our lives which will remain for many ages to come. Differences almost always create conflict. Wars rage on, whether they are cold or ordinary, and end with a horrific aftermath.


I'm not too fond of racist generalizations. Yes, Jews throughout history have been persecuted, but I was asking how that is relevant.

Of course persecution needs to be eliminated. Yeah, differences cause conflict and wars are bad.
Posted 3/13/10 , edited 3/13/10

Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:
The Jews have suffered through oppression worse than anyone. They endured being slaves to the Egyptians, killed and driven away by Christianity, tortured and butchered by the Nazis, and plagued still to this day by leftovers from the "Dark Ages" we've known of in modern times.

Persecution is what needs a rest, or better said, elimination. Though that is an element of our lives which will remain for many ages to come. Differences almost always create conflict. Wars rage on, whether they are cold or ordinary, and end with a horrific aftermath.


I'm not too fond of racist generalizations. Yes, Jews throughout history have been persecuted, but I was asking how that is relevant.

Of course persecution needs to be eliminated. Yeah, differences cause conflict and wars are bad.


Nor am I fond of being judged. To say something completely relevant, and this is all that really has to be said, is that Canada is stepping up to do something which it seems no one else can at this time. The involvement of the U.S. in any more of the world's affairs is only hurting us as a country, same for some others. The fact that the Jews have suffered so much means that having a particular country aid them who has not so much before might help steer things in the right direction. I feel it is relevant at least to say that since the Jews have suffered as much as they have, actions taken to help them of almost any kind are certainly welcome. How will Canada fare in this undertaking? The best, I hope.
Yei
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Posted 3/13/10 , edited 3/13/10

bitter_nail wrote:

Nor am I fond of being judged. To say something completely relevant, and this is all that really has to be said, is that Canada is stepping up to do something which it seems no one else can at this time. The involvement of the U.S. in any more of the world's affairs is only hurting us as a country, same for some others. The fact that the Jews have suffered so much means that having a particular country aid them who has not so much before might help steer things in the right direction. I feel it is relevant at least to say that since the Jews have suffered as much as they have, actions taken to help them of almost any kind are certainly welcome. How will Canada fare in this undertaking? The best, I hope.


What is it that Canada's stepping up to do now, do you mean support Israel?

Are you implying that because Jews have been persecuted in the past, it justifies stealing another people's country, ethnically cleansing and massacring them, occupying and oppressing them for decades, etc.? It's pretty ironic that the solution to the Jewish people's persecution problem would be the persecution of another people.
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