First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
Canada and Israel
Posted 3/13/10

Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

Nor am I fond of being judged. To say something completely relevant, and this is all that really has to be said, is that Canada is stepping up to do something which it seems no one else can at this time. The involvement of the U.S. in any more of the world's affairs is only hurting us as a country, same for some others. The fact that the Jews have suffered so much means that having a particular country aid them who has not so much before might help steer things in the right direction. I feel it is relevant at least to say that since the Jews have suffered as much as they have, actions taken to help them of almost any kind are certainly welcome. How will Canada fare in this undertaking? The best, I hope.


What is it that Canada's stepping up to do now, do you mean support Israel?

Are you implying that because Jews have been persecuted in the past, it justifies stealing another people's country, ethnically cleansing and massacring them, occupying and oppressing them for decades, etc.? It's pretty ironic that the solution to the Jewish people's persecution problem would be the persecution of another people.


And thus, someone needs to keep pulling the ropes to keep any more instances of attempted genocides from happening. No matter how oppressed a people have been, they will never earn the right to wipe out anyone else. The Jews in Israel have had it with all the insanity. They are well equipped to rip a swath of destruction through their current enemies, but not well enough equipped to take on too many more. Various weapons of Israeli make, such as the Desert Eagle and the Uzi, stand testament to their raging emotions.
Yei
9137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 3/13/10

bitter_nail wrote:

And thus, someone needs to keep pulling the ropes to keep any more instances of attempted genocides from happening. No matter how oppressed a people have been, they will never earn the right to wipe out anyone else. The Jews in Israel have had it with all the insanity. They are well equipped to rip a swath of destruction through their current enemies, but not well enough equipped to take on too many more. Various weapons of Israeli make, such as the Desert Eagle and the Uzi, stand testament to their raging emotions.


A lot of the Jews in Israel are living quite comfortably, oblivious to the Palestinians and the conflict. Palestinians tend to be the ones who get fed up with their collective horrible treatment.

Almost all outside forces are making the situation worse, Canada and the US both unconditionally support Israel, the US gives it billions of dollars of financial and military support.
Posted 3/13/10 , edited 3/13/10

Yei wrote:


bitter_nail wrote:

And thus, someone needs to keep pulling the ropes to keep any more instances of attempted genocides from happening. No matter how oppressed a people have been, they will never earn the right to wipe out anyone else. The Jews in Israel have had it with all the insanity. They are well equipped to rip a swath of destruction through their current enemies, but not well enough equipped to take on too many more. Various weapons of Israeli make, such as the Desert Eagle and the Uzi, stand testament to their raging emotions.


A lot of the Jews in Israel are living quite comfortably, oblivious to the Palestinians and the conflict. Palestinians tend to be the ones who get fed up with their collective horrible treatment.

Almost all outside forces are making the situation worse, Canada and the US both unconditionally support Israel, the US gives it billions of dollars of financial and military support.


Israel lives comfortably behind a very good defense. I remember the days when they had cruise missiles flying over their heads on a normal day. We see American assault rifles over there and all kinds of other equipment. Both sides of the conflict, I know, will duke it out possibly for generations. Even the Vietnam War is still technically going on regardless of what anyone might say. The U.S. lost that war fare and square, for it certainly wasn't a draw.
Yei
9137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 3/23/10 , edited 3/23/10
Norman Finkelstein did a lecture in Waterloo. Too bad I couldn't go =(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXJnsI2tH2c

lol you gotta love Finkelstein's strength in those situations^
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 3/23/10


I think that the United States and Canada should end all financial support of Israel until the constructions of the settlements stop, but now the Israeli Prime Minister is saying that if the Palestinians do not recall their demand for a complete freeze of settle-construction in the Westbank peace talks will be put off until 2011. (At which point he will likely demand that they recall their command lest Israel put off peace talks until 2013, then 2015, and so on.)

This being said I agree with the 1947 decision to establish Israel on Jewish land. I do not think there is anything wrong with Zionism. Hell, you know where I stand on the issue.

Anyway, Israel is a friend of the United States and so is Canada. Israel and Canada are both vying for the United State’s continued friendship. It mutually behooves them to play nice with each other. If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, then the friend of my friend…and when both individuals were friends to begin with…It’s a love triangle.

Doesn’t matter though. The US is the only one who really has the power to help or hurt Israel at this point, in terms of the international legal arena anyway. I suspect a immanent coalition dominated by the Russians to be lead against Israel in the near future. I am also worried that there may be war between Israel and Iran. Have you been following that?

Iran built their missiles designed specifically for reaching Tel Aviv in Israel and then had their secret nuclear facility and were bringing in depleted uranium in amounts apropos to a weapons program. Israel essentially said that if the UN did not shut their facility down by the end of the first month of this year, Israel was going to take matters into her own hands.

Sure enough, Israel just finished constructing a highly-technological unit of drone aircrafts designed with the specific purpose of reaching Iran and bombing its illegal nuclear facility. They’ve done this before, mind you.

This time around, however, Israel’s standing with the international community is significantly mitigated and the Arabs are emboldened. The Arabs are also significantly more powerful than they were last time they fought Israel, and Lebanon has been mastering effective counter measures against traditional Israeli tactics. (For example, they’ve been vamping up their anti-tank equipment.)

Throw in a Russian supplier and Israeli instigation and the Arab world is a wasps-nest just waiting to be kicked. If Iran does get nuclear, I have absolutely no doubt they’d strike Tel Aviv in the event of an all out war in this fashion. (Their president is completely mad. Did you know that homosexuals do not exist in Iran? They don’t have that there…guy’s a loon.)



Yei
9137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 3/23/10 , edited 3/23/10

SeraphAlford wrote:



I think that the United States and Canada should end all financial support of Israel until the constructions of the settlements stop, but now the Israeli Prime Minister is saying that if the Palestinians do not recall their demand for a complete freeze of settle-construction in the Westbank peace talks will be put off until 2011. (At which point he will likely demand that they recall their command lest Israel put off peace talks until 2013, then 2015, and so on.)

This being said I agree with the 1947 decision to establish Israel on Jewish land. I do not think there is anything wrong with Zionism. Hell, you know where I stand on the issue.

Anyway, Israel is a friend of the United States and so is Canada. Israel and Canada are both vying for the United State’s continued friendship. It mutually behooves them to play nice with each other. If the enemy of my enemy is my friend, then the friend of my friend…and when both individuals were friends to begin with…It’s a love triangle.

Doesn’t matter though. The US is the only one who really has the power to help or hurt Israel at this point, in terms of the international legal arena anyway. I suspect a immanent coalition dominated by the Russians to be lead against Israel in the near future. I am also worried that there may be war between Israel and Iran. Have you been following that?

Iran built their missiles designed specifically for reaching Tel Aviv in Israel and then had their secret nuclear facility and were bringing in depleted uranium in amounts apropos to a weapons program. Israel essentially said that if the UN did not shut their facility down by the end of the first month of this year, Israel was going to take matters into her own hands.

Sure enough, Israel just finished constructing a highly-technological unit of drone aircrafts designed with the specific purpose of reaching Iran and bombing its illegal nuclear facility. They’ve done this before, mind you.

This time around, however, Israel’s standing with the international community is significantly mitigated and the Arabs are emboldened. The Arabs are also significantly more powerful than they were last time they fought Israel, and Lebanon has been mastering effective counter measures against traditional Israeli tactics. (For example, they’ve been vamping up their anti-tank equipment.)

Throw in a Russian supplier and Israeli instigation and the Arab world is a wasps-nest just waiting to be kicked. If Iran does get nuclear, I have absolutely no doubt they’d strike Tel Aviv in the event of an all out war in this fashion. (Their president is completely mad. Did you know that homosexuals do not exist in Iran? They don’t have that there…guy’s a loon.)




I'm curious, if the Jewish refugees went to some other British colony, let's say Egypt or Iraq or India, and starting trying to take control of the country, committed a brutal ethnic cleansing expelling hundreds of thousands, would you still think it's creation over one of those countries would of been justified?

Also, why do so many Palestinian refugees still have the deeds to their land/homes, meaning they didn't sell anything, yet still had everything stolen? Is there any source explaining exactly what land was bought and from who?


Anyways, I do think the Iranian president has some very strange views, but I think the same about many Israeli and Arab leaders as well. In fact leaders all over the world. And I don't think Iran is a threat at all.

First of all, so far there's very little evidence Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons. They have a right to enrich uranium and develop nuclear technology; pretty much every country in the world has agreed to that. Second of all, even if they were trying to get nuclear weapons, so what? Many countries have nuclear weapons. If countries aren't supposed to have them, then the US and Israel should get rid of theirs and ask Pakistan, China and every other nuclear country to get rid of theirs as well. Third of all, the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty has been signed by Iran, it has not been signed by Israel, India or Pakistan, and the US is supportive of all their nuclear weapons programs. Fourth of all, Iran isn't stupid enough to nuke Israel. That would essentially be a suicide mission. The only reason Iran would want nuclear weapons to use would not be for offensive reasons, they would probably want them because of the growing threat of US military action, or maybe even Israeli military threat. I mean, like you said, Israel has bombed Iran before, I'd want a deterrent for that kind of illegal aggression.

We really don't have to worry about Iran's nuclear program; the US is just upset its installed insane dictator got removed and Iran gained its independence. Before these nuclear problems came up, the US was saying Iran was supporting certain Iraqi groups in the war. Seems to me they're just trying to demonize it and sometime in the future maybe they'll find some excuse to attack. The exact same thing happened with Iraq; once you lose control of a country in the Middle East you eventually need to get it back by any means necessary.

Also, North Korea doesn't seem to be a problem, huh? A literally insane dictator with absolute control, already tested out a nuclear weapon and gloated by saying it was as big as the one that hit Hiroshima. But North Korea isn't even in the Middle East, there's not much imperialist interest there, is there? And they have proven to have powerful nuclear weapons, so the US could be unwilling to bother it now, it might bomb US military bases in Seoul or something. Iran maybe might learn from that and try harder to get nuclear weapons now.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 3/24/10

Yei wrote: I'm curious, if the Jewish refugees went to some other British colony, let's say Egypt or Iraq or India, and starting trying to take control of the country, committed a brutal ethnic cleansing expelling hundreds of thousands, would you still think it's creation over one of those countries would of been justified?


I do not think that the brutal ethnic cleansing of the Arabs in modern Israel was anymore justifiable than the ethnic cleansing of the Jews throughout the Greater Middle East. I never said I agreed with that. I agreed with the UN’s decision.


Also, why do so many Palestinian refugees still have the deeds to their land/homes, meaning they didn't sell anything, yet still had everything stolen? Is there any source explaining exactly what land was bought and from who?


I am not an original historian, but I can recommend you to a couple sources if you like. The fact is that most of the territory allotted out to Israel was owned and dominantly populated by Jews. The real thievery began when they began occupying additional territory after the war in 1948.


Anyways, I do think the Iranian president has some very strange views, but I think the same about many Israeli and Arab leaders as well. In fact leaders all over the world. And I don't think Iran is a threat at all.


There are plenty of leaders with really weird views, but Ahmadinejad is seriously delusional. There are no homosexuals in Iran and all homosexuals smuggle drugs, you see. Child execution is okay because America has capital punishment. Even ignoring his holocaust denial and dogma about eradicating Israel, he’s a loon.

I do think Iran is a potential threat to the west just like Israel is a potential threat. As things are I think Iran has legitimate security purposes for wanting to be nuclear that are not necessarily aggressive or offensive in nature. I just fear how Iran will react if Israel goes through with its plan to attack the facility.


First of all, so far there's very little evidence Iran is trying to acquire nuclear weapons.


The evidence is fairly conclusive. The portion of depleted uranium Iran was enriching at the secret facility was specifically portioned in the amount apropos of weapons production. It would have been a complete waste of money to this much depleted uranium if they did not have the intent to produce a weapons.


They have a right to enrich uranium and develop nuclear technology; pretty much every country in the world has agreed to that.


They signed away their right to produce nuclear weaponry in the nuclear non-proliferation agreement, and f their behavior was so legal then why did they hide it until they were already found out?


Second of all, even if they were trying to get nuclear weapons, so what?


It would be a violation of past agreements they’ve made under international law, but so nothing in particular. I just fear what would happen if war broke out between Iran and Israel while Iran had nuclear strike capabilities. The same reason I would be nervous if India went to war with Israel.


Many countries have nuclear weapons.


Many of nations have ethnically cleansed their territory, but that is completely irrelevant to Israel’s actions. If we are to talk about Iran (and I see no need since my comment and opinion on the issue is utterly uncontroversial and my view of Iran is actually fairly positive in terms of the region) then let us talk about Iran and drop the straw man tactic.


If countries aren't supposed to have them, then the US and Israel should get rid of theirs and ask Pakistan, China and every other nuclear country to get rid of theirs as well.


Countries that have signed agreements stating that they will not have nuclear weapons (like Iran, unlike Israel) should not have nuclear weapons by merit of their own word. Anyway, France has nuclear weapons. I am not afraid of France nuking anyone. Israel and Iran scare the shit out of me because their leadership doesn’t seem to have sane judgment. Anyway, even if we cannot ask that everyone throw away their current nuclear weapons, does not mean we cannot (necessarily,) take a stance of non-nuclear proliferation for the future. A global disarming would be nice too, but proliferation is a step in the wrong direction.


Third of all, the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty has been signed by Iran, it has not been signed by Israel, India or Pakistan, and the US is supportive of all their nuclear weapons programs.


Exactly. Iran signed its right to own nuclear weaponry away. Israel made no such agreement.


Fourth of all, Iran isn't stupid enough to nuke Israel


Iran is a strikingly progressive and modern nation. It just has the misfortune of being located in an unstable region and having a lunatic for a president.


That would essentially be a suicide mission.


Right, and suicide offensives are completely foreign to the radical-militant-Islamic mentality in the face of Israeli aggression. No, wait, Muslims love the hell out of their martyrs.


The only reason Iran would want nuclear weapons to use would not be for offensive reasons, they would probably want them because of the growing threat of US military action, or maybe even Israeli military threat


Like I said, I do not think they are developing them with the intent of some immanent attack on Israel. I am just afraid that Israel’s nationalistic and martially arrogant leadership will wind up instigating Iran into a nuclear launch and then retaliating with reciprocation. I am also afraid that if Iran gets nuclear weapons it’ll contribute to proliferation throughout the region intentionally or unintentionally.


mean, like you said, Israel has bombed Iran before, I'd want a deterrent for that kind of illegal aggression.


A good way to stop the bombing is to not repeat the behavior that caused it in the first place, as Norman Finkelstein always says. If Israel thinks they can get away with bombing Iran on a whim, Iran will have to show Israel that they are wrong. A nuclear strike would accomplish that perfectly.


We really don't have to worry about Iran's nuclear program; the US is just upset its installed insane dictator got removed and Iran gained its independence.


And I never liked your spinach puffs.


. Before these nuclear problems came up, the US was saying Iran was supporting certain Iraqi groups in the war.


I do not think there is any question that such was the case. We know (historically,) that the Iranians have trained terrorist organizations to attack US forces in the Middle East.


Seems to me they're just trying to demonize it and sometime in the future maybe they'll find some excuse to attack. The exact same thing happened with Iraq; once you lose control of a country in the Middle East you eventually need to get it back by any means necessary.


I actually think we’ve done more to give Iraq control of itself.


Also, North Korea doesn't seem to be a problem, huh?


North Korea is a huge problem.


A literally insane dictator with absolute control, already tested out a nuclear weapon and gloated by saying it was as big as the one that hit Hiroshima.


Not to mention the fourth largest army in the world and one with the suicidal determination of a kamikaze pilot. When did I say they were not a threat?


But North Korea isn't even in the Middle East, there's not much imperialist interest there, is there


If Koreans were carrying out periodic terrorist attacks on the US and its closest allies we’d be there. But it wasn’t Koreans.


And they have proven to have powerful nuclear weapons, so the US could be unwilling to bother it now, it might bomb US military bases in Seoul or something. Iran maybe might learn from that and try harder to get nuclear weapons now.


Try harder? So you admit that they are trying?



Yei
9137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 3/24/10 , edited 4/6/10

SeraphAlford wrote:

I do not think that the brutal ethnic cleansing of the Arabs in modern Israel was anymore justifiable than the ethnic cleansing of the Jews throughout the Greater Middle East. I never said I agreed with that. I agreed with the UN’s decision.


Obviously, no one would agree with the ethnic cleansing. I was talking about the creation of Israel. So if it wasn't Palestine and it was some other British colony where Israel was created, would it still be ok?



I am not an original historian, but I can recommend you to a couple sources if you like. The fact is that most of the territory allotted out to Israel was owned and dominantly populated by Jews. The real thievery began when they began occupying additional territory after the war in 1948.


Ok, because I still haven't seen any book or scholar point that out, it seems kind of odd that all that land would just suddenly be sold to all the Jews who had just arrived. What land was bought and from who would be very helpful to know.




I do think Iran is a potential threat to the west just like Israel is a potential threat. As things are I think Iran has legitimate security purposes for wanting to be nuclear that are not necessarily aggressive or offensive in nature. I just fear how Iran will react if Israel goes through with its plan to attack the facility.

The evidence is fairly conclusive. The portion of depleted uranium Iran was enriching at the secret facility was specifically portioned in the amount apropos of weapons production. It would have been a complete waste of money to this much depleted uranium if they did not have the intent to produce a weapons.


Threat to the west? Potentially, France could also be a threat to the West, but realistically, why would Israel and Iran even think about taking on the West militarily?

I believe Iran is probably producing nuclear weapons too, but according to the IAEA(International Atomic Energy Association), there's no evidence it is:
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL312024420090703?sp=true

And according to US intelligence, it's "unclear": http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL34544.pdf And the IAEA would have quickly discovered the truth if Iran was.

The evidence isn't conclusive at all, but intuitively, I would say Iran probably is. But that still means nothing without real evidence.




They signed away their right to produce nuclear weaponry in the nuclear non-proliferation agreement, and f their behavior was so legal then why did they hide it until they were already found out?



But they have a right to enrich uranium and develop civilian nuclear technology, and the whole world has pretty much agreed to that.




It would be a violation of past agreements they’ve made under international law, but so nothing in particular. I just fear what would happen if war broke out between Iran and Israel while Iran had nuclear strike capabilities. The same reason I would be nervous if India went to war with Israel.


Yes, it's nothing really significant. The US has broken the NPT with it's nuclear deal with India. Israel hasn't even signed it and the US supports Israel (meaning, I guess if Iran simply didn't sign it, there would be no problem then?). And not to mention the endless list of other international agreements the US doesn't care about. In fact the US and Israel are both outlaw states. But it's not like they have to follow the same standards Iran does, right?

Obviously I don't support Iran getting nuclear weapons, I don't support any state having nuclear weapons. But there's absolutely no reason to single Iran out, I still don't agree with the regime's actions, but it's not anything special.




Iran is a strikingly progressive and modern nation. It just has the misfortune of being located in an unstable region and having a lunatic for a president.

Right, and suicide offensives are completely foreign to the radical-militant-Islamic mentality in the face of Israeli aggression. No, wait, Muslims love the hell out of their martyrs.


Iran isn't a dictatorship like North Korea, Ahmadinajad doesn't run it alone.

And again, Iran isn't stupid enough to nuke Israel. This is Iran, an Islamic republic, not a mentally disturbed extreme member of Hamas.






We really don't have to worry about Iran's nuclear program; the US is just upset its installed insane dictator got removed and Iran gained its independence.


And I never liked your spinach puffs.


I wonder how much people living in Britain during British colonization knew about British colonization.

US imperialism in the region has been strong, but they made a mistake when they put in and supported the Shah. Brutal dictators might work well for the US in other parts of the world, but it seems like the Middle East isn't the best place for them, less blatantly brutal yet still very oppressive regimes seem to work best for the US in the Middle East.

It really couldn't be more obvious, Iran immediately became an enemy after the Islamic revolution. Suddenly, Iran was developing and running independently, the US eventually was going to have to stop it from doing that soon. And this is a good start.





I do not think there is any question that such was the case. We know (historically,) that the Iranians have trained terrorist organizations to attack US forces in the Middle East.


Yes, Iran obviously was supporting terrorist groups in Iraq, just like the US has done in dozens of countries worldwide. But the point is the US has begun demonizing Iran.




I actually think we’ve done more to give Iraq control of itself.


Really?...

I don't even want to begin talking about the US and Iraq. From Saddam Hussien, to the genocidal sanctions, to the ridiculous war.

It seems like the US has made sure the opposite is true. That's kind of the main point of imperialism.




If Koreans were carrying out periodic terrorist attacks on the US and its closest allies we’d be there. But it wasn’t Koreans.


So the threats towards Iran are not because of the nuclear weapons thing, but the terrorist attacks? Are you talking about Iran supporting certain groups in Iraq?
Yei
9137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 4/5/10 , edited 4/5/10

SeraphAlford wrote:

I am not an original historian, but I can recommend you to a couple sources if you like. The fact is that most of the territory allotted out to Israel was owned and dominantly populated by Jews. The real thievery began when they began occupying additional territory after the war in 1948.


Just to add something, Engler's book mentions Jews owned less than 7% of the land.

I really can't see any justification in the making of a Jewish state out of Palestine.
10452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / M
Offline
Posted 4/8/10

Yei wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:

I am not an original historian, but I can recommend you to a couple sources if you like. The fact is that most of the territory allotted out to Israel was owned and dominantly populated by Jews. The real thievery began when they began occupying additional territory after the war in 1948.


Just to add something, Engler's book mentions Jews owned less than 7% of the land.

I really can't see any justification in the making of a Jewish state out of Palestine.


The Jews owned only a very small fraction of Palestine as a whole, but in terms of what is now legally Israel…that land was mostly owned and populated by Jews at that time. Again, I do not have the numbers memorized anymore.

I cannot really see a justification I like for the foundation of any racial state be it Arabic, Judeo-Hebraic, or as in the case with Malcolm X black.

I can see justifications, however, that most anti-Israel people would accept and cite were the glove on the other hand. Norman Finkelstein in his debate with Shlomo discussed Israel’s record of violating international law. Being fairly moderate his opponent responded by stating that yes, Israel has violated international law, but that those laws did not consider things from Israel’s perspective. For example, Israel briefly legalized torture in some circumstances. Norman’s response to this was to say that you do not get to decide which laws you want to follow and do not want to follow, and that laws do not apply only to citizens of the international community that live in nice neighborhoods. In other-words, regardless of your people’s desire and circumstances, the UN’s word is God’s law.

The UN decided to partition Israel. If you can use international law to say that a corporations actions are un-just it follows (inductively, at least) that you can use it to justify a corporations actions.

Of course I do not like international law so I do not take this approach. Really though, I think it’s irrelevant. All nations are born in sin, and that’s a fact.
Yei
9137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 4/8/10 , edited 4/8/10

SeraphAlford wrote:

The Jews owned only a very small fraction of Palestine as a whole, but in terms of what is now legally Israel…that land was mostly owned and populated by Jews at that time. Again, I do not have the numbers memorized anymore.

I cannot really see a justification I like for the foundation of any racial state be it Arabic, Judeo-Hebraic, or as in the case with Malcolm X black.

I can see justifications, however, that most anti-Israel people would accept and cite were the glove on the other hand. Norman Finkelstein in his debate with Shlomo discussed Israel’s record of violating international law. Being fairly moderate his opponent responded by stating that yes, Israel has violated international law, but that those laws did not consider things from Israel’s perspective. For example, Israel briefly legalized torture in some circumstances. Norman’s response to this was to say that you do not get to decide which laws you want to follow and do not want to follow, and that laws do not apply only to citizens of the international community that live in nice neighborhoods. In other-words, regardless of your people’s desire and circumstances, the UN’s word is God’s law.

The UN decided to partition Israel. If you can use international law to say that a corporations actions are un-just it follows (inductively, at least) that you can use it to justify a corporations actions.

Of course I do not like international law so I do not take this approach. Really though, I think it’s irrelevant. All nations are born in sin, and that’s a fact.


The only sources I can find to explain who owned what are maps:



And this one: http://almostnot.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/palestine-land-ownership-1945.jpg

The Jews were about a third of the population, and they seemed to own very little land in comparison to the Palestinians.

I think the Geneva Conventions and really basic human rights laws that say you shouldn't torture (or all the other horrible Israeli human rights violations) are just morally and logically accepted by most people. Morality and logic should be used when judging these issues, not just technicalities.

The decision to create Israel and disproportionally divide Palestine was pushed for by European Zionists, and other factors (like the Holocaust) or strange misconceptions people had with Palestine affected the decision. The UN is usually just a tool for the hegemonic states anyways. But the bottom line is that it's more than obvious that it was an absurd, immoral decision, and a huge injustice done towards the Palestinians.

So your view is all nations are born in sin, so what happened to the Palestinians (having their country stolen) is justified? I don't see the logic, so you're admitting it was wrong?
15 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M
Offline
Posted 4/9/10 , edited 4/9/10
hello,
On January 8, 2009, the Government of Canada helped 48 Canadians to safely depart from Gaza to Jordan. Another three Canadians left Gaza on January 19 through the Egyptian border and received assistance from our embassy in Cairo. On January 21, the Government of Canada helped nine Canadians leave Gaza by providing transportation from the Erez crossing, on the Gaza-Israel border, to Amman, Jordan, and by organizing accommodation in Amman. On February 3, another 19 Canadians were helped to leave Gaza by being moved from Rafah Crossing (Gaza-Egypt border) to Cairo.

thanks for sharing your information.

______________
url=http://www.shopdownlite.com/pillowform_round.php]Circle Pillow

10652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / F / Indonesia Raya
Offline
Posted 4/17/10
I always wondering why the influence and dominance of Israel is bigger than US. Originally, it was the US who wanted to have influence and ally in middle east region, that's when they supporting Jews in Europe against Germany and provide them home in Jerusalem and its surrounding. Israel was really being supported to build their settlements in Palestine by various power like US and its allies, including Canada. In that condition, Israelis supposed to be an ally and helper of US, the donater.

But does anyone feel it's the opposite at current situation? It's like the US is being controlled and under influence of Israel.
1394 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M
Offline
Posted 4/19/10
Yes, the Canadian Noam Chomsky, the man whose maddness is unrivaled in the western world, who would side with anyside against America. I don't think I want to be compared to such a fella if I were that Canadian man. Am Yisraeli Chai!
Yei
9137 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
116
Offline
Posted 4/25/10

orangeflute wrote:

Yes, the Canadian Noam Chomsky, the man whose maddness is unrivaled in the western world, who would side with anyside against America. I don't think I want to be compared to such a fella if I were that Canadian man. Am Yisraeli Chai!


I guess the Noam Chomsky comparison wasn't the best because Chomsky is out of Engler's league. Chomsky has been consistently viewed as one of the world's most important intellectual and I'd have to agree. Of course, by US indoctrination standards, being rational equates to being mad, so I can understand your view.

Engler is a big fan of Chomsky, like most rational, independent-minded people who care about the world they live in. He put a quote of Chomsky praising his book on the back cover.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.