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US healthcare bill
Posted 3/28/10

digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


digs wrote:



What do you mean by "freedom of speech" and "throwing mud at each other"? We should be able to speak our political freedoms freely, the government has absolutely no right to silence us.

The Democrats had far worse verbal assaults on Republicans, it was almost sickening during the Bush days to hear what they would say about him and the Republicans. The public didn't want the bill, it's hard to know every detail when the thing is over 2,000 pages long. Again, the tragedy is that democracy was crushed. The Democrats voted against their constituents for pure party ties, bribes, and ideology. The only bipartisan thing in the bill was that all Republicans and some Democrats voted against this, only Democrats voted for it. It doesn't matter if people think this is good or bad or if they are Democrat or Republican. The fact is that the majority of America doesn't want this, and the Democrats shamefully voted for it and screwed those who elected them to represent them.

So how and why did the people's hateful personal opinions toward the Democrats, have any relevant with the fact that both themselves and the Republicans were just too lazy to sit down and read the health care bill for themselves? Regardless of the fact that Bush and the Republicans didn't even touch the subject that was health care reform, because they were too eager to force everything else during their administration.


A few people have hateful opinions, just as many Democrats hated Bush and have even shot at Republican offices because they plan to take this illegal bill to court. Hardly anybody read the bill, and the Republicans were the ones to admit that, not the Dems. You should see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QycU6D6OMUU. You have not addressed my main concern yet. The majority of America does not want this bill, the Democrats smacked their constituents and voted in a completely partisan fashion for legislation that will only hurt the American people. The only bipartisan part was the opposition to the bill! It was incredibly partisan and had so many special deals in it while being written without the promised transparency of the Obama administration. Even the week before it passed they snuck in legislation to regulate students loans (another thing that was unpopular). This is a prime example of partisanship and a defiance of the American people. It doesn't matter what Bush did, it doesn't matter what Clinton did, what matters is what happened now and how we are going to repeal this garbage that was vomited upon the American people.
Please, as if they were smart and diligent in the first place to even figure that out for themselves.

Democracy demands an informed electorate. Voters who lack adequate knowledge about politics will find it difficult to control public policy. Inadequate voter knowledge prevents government from reflecting the will of the people in any meaningful way. Such ignorance also raises doubts about democracy as a means of serving the interests of a majority. Voters who lack sufficient knowledge may be manipulated by elites. They may also demand policies that contravene their own interests.(citation)

From "When Ignorance Isn't Bliss: How Political Ignorance Threatens Democracy" by Ilya Somin
So when the only opposition was due to their incredible ignorance of political process, who can the Republicans and their supporters to blame but themselves for their own lack of civil knowledge?

Thus the Republicans lost their democracy to those who are in the knows, and they'll know none the wiser due to their entitlement attitude. I mean come on! Refuse to read the whole bill just because it's too long? All the while the Republicans just whined and complained about the work? When it's their job to learn the whole facts about this bill, but they were just too busy raging war by taking it apart.


Their opposition was because the bill is terrible, not because they had a lack of knowledge. This bill affects my loans (more expensive) and my financially hurting family has to pay extra on our insurance because my father is considered to be self employed. Plus as someone wanting to into the medical field this bill affects my career and future. Not everyone objects because they are ignorant of it, we object because we know some of the bad things within this 2,300 page monstrosity. We don't like big government, we don't like higher taxes, we don't like paying more, and we don't like Obama's liberal agenda.

The Republicans lost their majority because of Bush and the media constantly bashing him. Bush wasn't a conservative, he sent us into debt and grew government as well. The Dems played on Bush's unpopularity and campaigned saying all Republicans were that way. Obama frequently reminds us of Bush and blames him for the all the ills of our country while he himself hypocritically makes even worse mistakes. The Republicans lost their democracy because people were sick of their leadership, and rightfully so. However, what replaced them was far worse and now America is waking up. If Obama did anything good it's that he has energized and awaken the conservatives in my country and we won't have any more of his liberal, big government, less freedom agenda Why can't they refuse the bill because it's 2,300 pages long? It's a massive atrocity! The Democrats didn't read it, and the Republicans knew about the bad things in it as well as many Americans. I would say those who support it are ignorant of the truth of the bill. Many will rubber stamp anything Obama says and live a life of government entitlement. You have not yet discussed why it's ok for the Dems to defy the will of the people and go against their constituents. They voted along partisan lines and ignored the will of the people. This is not right and America is furious over this.
What "monstrosity"? What "massive atrocity"? When the fact is it's only a 2300 pages long bill of uncertainty because nobody except the Republicans and the Democrats had read it, while the only entitlement is from the Republicans with their TL;DR attitude.

When you made any act entertaining, easy, and rewarding. You can fool just about anyone into doing something, simply by making the act itself desirable. Therefore when the end doesn't justify the means, it's ultimately the thought that counts.

For example, the way how some individuals ignore details and only desire to know about the "what". Is the direct result of how they were made to think that the act of only knowing the trivial is entertaining, easy, and rewarding. This is done by the educational process of "drill and practice", as well as the awash of pop-cultural influence.

In other words, they were never made to find out for themselves the "how" and "why"; the analytical and logical processes that represent a will driven by rational thoughts, and not just a desire of simple wanting and needing. Because rationality was made boring, hard, and discouraging. Kinda like how this meme got circulated on the internet as a game, was responsible to that mentality: TL;DR.

Therefore the Republicans as well as their supporters had abandoned their will to be civil and free, when they enslaved themselves with their desires and entitlements.

"Man has the duty to strengthen the feeling of compassion, since this feeling promotes morality in relation to other human beings."(citation) - Immanuel Kant, German philosopher

I asked you "what's your thought and feeling on altruism's worth?" But when the fact is that US is short on primary care doctors, just where does your duty lies? Is it your greed and desire of fame and fortune? Or your willingness to be of help for humanity, no matter what's at stake with your person.
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Posted 4/3/10 , edited 4/3/10
"The passage of Obamacare created many losers, but none greater than for Americans under the age of 30, the very voters on whom Team Obama performed a pixel-driven lobotomy during the 2008 presidential election.

The majority of Americans who opposed President Barack Obama’s healthcare bill are shaking their heads and wondering how such a legislative monstrosity could lurch its way to passage. The answer harkens back to the 2008 election: Team Obama brainwashed 66% of younger voters, the very citizens who will now be engulfed by the $1 trillion tidal wave Mr. Obama just sent crashing over their (and their children’s and grandchildren’s) heads.

During the presidential campaign, David Plouffe, David Axelrod and Obama built a technologically savvy marketing machine that shotgunned Twitter messages at Mach speed, sent YouTube clips ricocheting around the globe, and built a gargantuan digital tribe of Facebook followers. My generation fell for the marketing blitz. And now, we are the ones stuck with the consequences of what the healthcare debacle will mean for our health and our wealth (or lack thereof).

First, people under 30 will suffer the largest hits on premium increases. As the Washington Post has reported, young adults are likely to pay a huge chunk of Obamacare’s costs. The Oliver Wyman consulting firm conducted a study that revealed that premiums for individuals will jump by $1,576 and families will see their premiums soar by $3,341.

This, of course, affects young people the worst, as those fresh out of college struggle to land jobs in an increasingly hostile job market. More than that, the study projects that Mr. Obama’s overhaul of the American healthcare system will mean that new health insurance policy premiums purchased by the youngest third of the population will rise by 35% under the bill.

(Advice to my fellow Gen Y’ers: Kiss your iTunes and Starbucks habits goodbye.)

Second, the individual mandate provision—which forces us young, healthier folks to buy Obamacare whether we want to or not—is nothing more than stealing from us to take care of grandma and gramps. Think of it as inheritance in reverse.

When President Bill Clinton tried to ram Hillarycare down the American throat, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office compared a compulsory health are decree to…the military draft! Quoth the CBO: “Federal mandates that apply to individuals as members of society are extremely rare. One example is the requirement that draft-age men register with the Selective Service System. The Congressional Budget Office is not aware of any others imposed by current federal law.”

Stop and reread that statement. This legislative lunacy holds no other precedent beyond that which ensures the protection and preservation of the Republic. Americans under the age of 30 are now being asked to view service to one’s nation as equivalent to allowing the federal government to raid your piggy bank in the service of footing someone else’s cure for the sniffles.

What ever happened to economic freedom? What about the radical notion that individuals should have the right to buy or forgo buying whatever products they choose?

The youth voters never asked these questions, so caught up in the Mr.Obama’s coolness tsunami as we were. Now that the uber swag “Yes We Can” YouTube videos have fizzled and the iconic red and blue Obama posters have faded, we are left with the economic and healthcare consequences we have wrought. "

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36208
Posted 4/3/10 , edited 4/3/10

sebastianthepinkrabbit wrote:

"The passage of Obamacare created many losers, but none greater than for Americans under the age of 30, the very voters on whom Team Obama performed a pixel-driven lobotomy during the 2008 presidential election.

The majority of Americans who opposed President Barack Obama’s healthcare bill are shaking their heads and wondering how such a legislative monstrosity could lurch its way to passage. The answer harkens back to the 2008 election: Team Obama brainwashed 66% of younger voters, the very citizens who will now be engulfed by the $1 trillion tidal wave Mr. Obama just sent crashing over their (and their children’s and grandchildren’s) heads.


During the presidential campaign, David Plouffe, David Axelrod and Obama built a technologically savvy marketing machine that shotgunned Twitter messages at Mach speed, sent YouTube clips ricocheting around the globe, and built a gargantuan digital tribe of Facebook followers. My generation fell for the marketing blitz. And now, we are the ones stuck with the consequences of what the healthcare debacle will mean for our health and our wealth (or lack thereof).

First, people under 30 will suffer the largest hits on premium increases. As the Washington Post has reported, young adults are likely to pay a huge chunk of Obamacare’s costs. The Oliver Wyman consulting firm conducted a study that revealed that premiums for individuals will jump by $1,576 and families will see their premiums soar by $3,341.

This, of course, affects young people the worst, as those fresh out of college struggle to land jobs in an increasingly hostile job market. More than that, the study projects that Mr. Obama’s overhaul of the American healthcare system will mean that new health insurance policy premiums purchased by the youngest third of the population will rise by 35% under the bill.

(Advice to my fellow Gen Y’ers: Kiss your iTunes and Starbucks habits goodbye.)

Second, the individual mandate provision—which forces us young, healthier folks to buy Obamacare whether we want to or not—is nothing more than stealing from us to take care of grandma and gramps. Think of it as inheritance in reverse.


When President Bill Clinton tried to ram Hillarycare down the American throat, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office compared a compulsory health are decree to…the military draft! Quoth the CBO: “Federal mandates that apply to individuals as members of society are extremely rare. One example is the requirement that draft-age men register with the Selective Service System. The Congressional Budget Office is not aware of any others imposed by current federal law.”

Stop and reread that statement. This legislative lunacy holds no other precedent beyond that which ensures the protection and preservation of the Republic. Americans under the age of 30 are now being asked to view service to one’s nation as equivalent to allowing the federal government to raid your piggy bank in the service of footing someone else’s cure for the sniffles.

What ever happened to economic freedom? What about the radical notion that individuals should have the right to buy or forgo buying whatever products they choose?

The youth voters never asked these questions, so caught up in the Mr.Obama’s coolness tsunami as we were. Now that the uber swag “Yes We Can” YouTube videos have fizzled and the iconic red and blue Obama posters have faded, we are left with the economic and healthcare consequences we have wrought. "


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36208
First off, get some original writing. Thereby you'll be more of a real individual with original thoughts and feelings, as oppose to just another spam-bot with no rationale or relevancy.

That aside, your source was obviously asking the wrong question. When he should be asking the young voters"what's your thought and feeling on altruism's worth? In other words name your price for universal health care coverage for all, and be realistic about it." Regardless of the fact that the health care reform was what President Obama had promised during his 2008 campaign for presidency, and got subsequently voted for by his voters(citation). While many of the young Americans back then became public and private altruists with their influence over their parents and guardians, they didn't vote for Obama per say, but they supported him for what he planed to do(citation). For the longest time the majority of young Americans are getting sicker and sicker due to their lifestyle choices(citation).

So yeah, think about all of that the next time you let someone else to do the ranting on health care for you. Like for instant I'll choose this 12 year old girl to be the advocate on health care reform.
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51 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 4/3/10
More government intrudes the more power they have over you. Do you need the government to tell what to eat how much you can weigh are you even worth sending money on. Some government employ gets a bug up there ass and declines you for some treatment just because there P.O.. Sue the Federal government for and attitude problem give me a break. When has this president come straight with the truth. Heck I might need to put up a sing O'bama ( Husein) spoke the truth for once.
Posted 4/4/10

tarakelly wrote:

More government intrudes the more power they have over you. Do you need the government to tell what to eat how much you can weigh are you even worth sending money on. Some government employ gets a bug up there ass and declines you for some treatment just because there P.O.. Sue the Federal government for and attitude problem give me a break. When has this president come straight with the truth. Heck I might need to put up a sing O'bama ( Husein) spoke the truth for once.
If all you're ranting about is how personal health care will become like some sort of "big brother" scenario, then just get impersonal by combining preexisting cell phone technology and a paper test the size of your fingernail. It's cheap, virtually costless, and available for the market.
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51 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 4/4/10
Show me one program the Federal government program that acutely worked without shifting the cost to the state, and bogus book keeping. Big brother has been around for some time, There allot more going on behind the scene's then what's being shown. Your health care should be your own responsibility not any body else, it not a entailment your born with. I had a burr up my ass from the seventies. Every one knew this train wreak going to happen with medicare/Medicaid. Why not torch reform (dam) the lawyers support O'bama so that not going to happen. Why do Doctor's run so many test, in some case's it the cheapest rout. Most lab are set up to check on more than one thing at a time. In the long run it would coast the patient more for that single test the battery that's set up by the lab. Lawyers also have influenced part of this with what if you ran this test as well with this one test. Playing word smith with the human body hind sight twenty twenty for a lawyer. Doctors are people, and make mistakes some small some that kill. Most want to do whats best for the patient. E.R.M. Doctors have it tough without the car chasing dog weighting when they leave from work. Most of this BS I would lay at the feet of that Putz FDR some much of this can be laid at his feet. This horse is dead look at the (Fair Tax) I do care bout the next generations that's why I wished both parties would take a long walk on a sort deck over the Grand Canyon. This whole mess is over power, control and money If you really believe capital hill cares about you Go back to sleep and keep dreaming!
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51 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 4/4/10
Do you know what a botched bombing is. Three Muslim doctors practicing medicine in Great Britain and could not figure out how to build one. Go Socialized Medicine
Posted 4/4/10

tarakelly wrote:

Show me one program the Federal government program that acutely worked without shifting the cost to the state, and bogus book keeping. Big brother has been around for some time, There allot more going on behind the scene's then what's being shown. Your health care should be your own responsibility not any body else, it not a entailment your born with. I had a burr up my ass from the seventies. Every one knew this train wreak going to happen with medicare/Medicaid. Why not torch reform (dam) the lawyers support O'bama so that not going to happen. Why do Doctor's run so many test, in some case's it the cheapest rout. Most lab are set up to check on more than one thing at a time. In the long run it would coast the patient more for that single test the battery that's set up by the lab. Lawyers also have influenced part of this with what if you ran this test as well with this one test. Playing word smith with the human body hind sight twenty twenty for a lawyer. Doctors are people, and make mistakes some small some that kill. Most want to do whats best for the patient. E.R.M. Doctors have it tough without the car chasing dog weighting when they leave from work. Most of this BS I would lay at the feet of that Putz FDR some much of this can be laid at his feet. This horse is dead look at the (Fair Tax) I do care bout the next generations that's why I wished both parties would take a long walk on a sort deck over the Grand Canyon. This whole mess is over power, control and money If you really believe capital hill cares about you Go back to sleep and keep dreaming!

If you truly meant what you said about being responsible for your own health, then let's put it to the test: I'm 6'@218lbs, with a BMI of 29.76 but a 18.5% of total body fat percentage. My resting heart rate is 46BPM while my blood pressure is 117 over 67. I don't drink, smoke, or do drugs, while I don't eat fast food nor junk food. I keep an intense discipline on both my physique, mentality, and my emotions with my exercise, study, and meditation. Are you doing any of that sort thereby you being responsible and proactive with your health?

Quite the opposite IMO, when all I can see is you whining, ranting, and complaining about a system that doesn't help you not because it doesn't work, but because you don't even help yourself by you not doing anything.

Therefore you don't have control not because your government took it away from you, when the fact is you just lack a direction while you don't even have a flow in your life.

"The trick to control and regulate isn't prevention nor oppression. But rather is direction and flow" -by me
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51 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 4/4/10
Preview:To some it up you want others to pay your health care . Have you gone to school/ worked an internship ten years to be come a Doctor. The evil insurance companies make 4% profit and they have stockholder check out your Retirement plain. All my health comes from the Veterans Administration. I never asked your expected health care. So what your problem? All I have been stating is anything government gets involved with dose not work. They do not produce anything all they do pass laws and most of them could not tell what there about. Calm-down at 33 you should by realize you don't know as much as you thought. A teenager in generally think. they know every thing about every thing. If you just listen to them. Being past forty I realize there so much I do not understand, or pretend to. I do understand the housing collapse was caused by the government, Enron got past the government regulators, that clown in New York that took every one for a ride, where was government. They were supposed to check his books every so often. Most likely that agency will complain about not enough help the normal response. Every Government program cost money to run, We all pay most people are not aware of embedded taxes. In your case as your grandparent or great grandparents. Or some body born 1920,1930. talk to them about a hard life. In many countries you can die from a tooth infection. We have the best care in the world just Keep politicians out of it.
Posted 4/4/10 , edited 4/4/10

tarakelly wrote:

Preview:To some it up you want others to pay your health care . Have you gone to school/ worked an internship ten years to be come a Doctor. The evil insurance companies make 4% profit and they have stockholder check out your Retirement plain. All my health comes from the Veterans Administration. I never asked your expected health care. So what your problem? All I have been stating is anything government gets involved with dose not work. They do not produce anything all they do pass laws and most of them could not tell what there about. Calm-down at 33 you should by realize you don't know as much as you thought. A teenager in generally think. they know every thing about every thing. If you just listen to them. Being past forty I realize there so much I do not understand, or pretend to. I do understand the housing collapse was caused by the government, Enron got past the government regulators, that clown in New York that took every one for a ride, where was government. They were supposed to check his books every so often. Most likely that agency will complain about not enough help the normal response. Every Government program cost money to run, We all pay most people are not aware of embedded taxes. In your case as your grandparent or great grandparents. Or some body born 1920,1930. talk to them about a hard life. In many countries you can die from a tooth infection. We have the best care in the world just Keep politicians out of it.
I was a benefactor of the Canadian universal health care at birth, when as a low income family my mother needed the emergency medical care and support in order to give birth of me. So before your bias opinions shut you away from the rest of the world, realize that there are those like myself who know more than you do, simply because of our useful knowledge is based on applicable and relevant life experiences.

And since you're gloating that the US has the best care, then how come it was never an universal care up until now? Care to explain that before you went off to the deep end due to your own preexisting condition?
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51 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 4/4/10
What about the horror stories that come out from Canada, need a M.R.I and have to weight month for one and died. A expectant mother can go to any hospital here and get help, by law or the decent thing to do. America is the most giving country in the world not so much the government but the people they open there wallets and help. No thanks to Canadian heath care. There allot of young females running around here and having babies and think it the government job to take care of them. I generally refer to them as walking incubator's, chance the child will be in D-FAX hands by four years old or left to grandparents all to good. We for me brain trauma was the norm for me pain headaches, but i was never turned down because of it because I learned to hide it. That did not come out until I did a Head on with a mountainside 100 Plus. The problems never went away but i have learned better way to deal at the VA hospitals. My biggest problem is employment not health care. I probably could work for the government being competent is not a very big factor. I could have a meltdown and not get fried. Gong once twice a week to see doctors dose not go over very well. The insurance problems for me are the liability ones not heath care. I fact the only reason I am here is of our heath care system and there still days i wished they did not interfere with me. If do not have a do not resuscitate one your person big mistake.
Posted 4/4/10 , edited 4/4/10

tarakelly wrote:

What about the horror stories that come out from Canada, need a M.R.I and have to weight month for one and died. A expectant mother can go to any hospital here and get help, by law or the decent thing to do. America is the most giving country in the world not so much the government but the people they open there wallets and help. No thanks to Canadian heath care. There allot of young females running around here and having babies and think it the government job to take care of them. I generally refer to them as walking incubator's, chance the child will be in D-FAX hands by four years old or left to grandparents all to good. We for me brain trauma was the norm for me pain headaches, but i was never turned down because of it because I learned to hide it. That did not come out until I did a Head on with a mountainside 100 Plus. The problems never went away but i have learned better way to deal at the VA hospitals. My biggest problem is employment not health care. I probably could work for the government being competent is not a very big factor. I could have a meltdown and not get fried. Gong once twice a week to see doctors dose not go over very well. The insurance problems for me are the liability ones not heath care. I fact the only reason I am here is of our heath care system and there still days i wished they did not interfere with me. If do not have a do not resuscitate one your person big mistake.
Hence you didn't see the paradox that you are your own worst critic not because you can't think of anything realistically good to say about others, but because you are confirmation bias when it comes to you being unfair while you are judgmental on health care. When you excused yourself by you relying and entitling on the government to employ and support you due to your mental condition, yet you criticized them unfairly when your government extended the same kind of compassion to those who are also less fortunate. And BTW...

"I'm not here for your scare tactics, or do you think that Chicken Little was an optimist?" -by me.
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Posted 4/4/10
The word Hope feeling you have self worth being able to meet ones owe needs. Most of that I never understood by the way I do not work for the Government nor could not. Listen to people complain how there underpaid and over work in the brake room eating and drinking and show up at their desk just not interest me. Seen it to many times and have had many friend that all they did was complain about how nobody work except them.. I do not understand the (scare tactics part). I respect your point of view it gong to happen to this, Once a Great Republic. Maybe t here will be something more interesting to talk about down the road. Best wishes Tarakelly
Posted 4/4/10

tarakelly wrote:

The word Hope feeling you have self worth being able to meet ones owe needs. Most of that I never understood by the way I do not work for the Government nor could not. Listen to people complain how there underpaid and over work in the brake room eating and drinking and show up at their desk just not interest me. Seen it to many times and have had many friend that all they did was complain about how nobody work except them.. I do not understand the (scare tactics part). I respect your point of view it gong to happen to this, Once a Great Republic. Maybe t here will be something more interesting to talk about down the road. Best wishes Tarakelly
And how's that making you any different than them? When nothing besides you whining, ranting, and complaining about others really interest you. Or perhaps this is the once called "Great Republican" tradition that you're so fond of? When you suddenly don't find yourself nor your opinions all that "interesting" anymore. Could it be that you realized you're not helping anyone with that attitude of yours?
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digs 
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Posted 4/4/10
By Great Republic she means the nation, not the Republican party. The United States is a Republic. However, we have lost when it comes to representation. The majority of America didn't want this, the Democrat party lied and bribed to pass it. They will pay in November dearly. This is horrible reform and it is being shoved down our throats against our will. Such an incompetent and arrogant president we have.
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