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Spiritual Purification
Posted 4/16/10

farmbird wrote:

Ok, my last comment on this subject, for tonight, at least.
Laughter! it's the ultimate spiritual restorer!!!!


Yep. Makes me wonder why anyone looks deeper than that.
Posted 4/16/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DerfelCadarn wrote:

Erm, what? WHAT? If I wasn't concerned about my own health, I would be bashing my head against the wall now.

As for my solution for recovering - all of these:

Rest, fruits, vegetables, multivitamins, a balance of nutrients, brisk walks. Quite traditional in many regards, but truly good health leads to a healthy nervous system which in turn improves health indirectly creating a circle of positive feedback.


Your solution is only good for health, body and physical materials. Not to soul, mentality, spiritual or mentality. There are many teachings that the people would gain their soul to be purified by hurting themselves, like Shia and some Christian who would stake themselves to know how Jesus feel. It just the way of them to satisfy themselves, for the belief they believe in.



DomFortress wrote:

Your comment deliberately left out those who are nonreligious to begin with. Therefore are you implying that those without religious beliefs don't have souls? How arrogant for you to say that, when you need a religion in order for you to claim that so-on-so has a soul.

Furthermore, while you assume that you're now with a soul due to your Islamic faith, this also means that you naturally didn't came with a soul to begin with. So how can you be unnatural yet still be saved by you being one of the chosen?

Therefore while the nature of humanity isn't as worthless as you were taught to believe in, you OTOH just got blind-sided by your Islamic rationality.


What is soul? To me, it's just a word to describe the mentality or behavior of people. Like, his soul is not pure because he committed crimes. But later, his soul become pure because he repent it, that's my definition of soul in this world. In next world, it would be best described as spirit. And for non believer, to purify their soul, or mentality as I said, just to live their life according to what they wanted to do to for themselves and doing good things to others. That way, they became mentally pure which is affect their spirituality in life.
Before you ran off to start another infomercial or a cult, science can answer moral and ethical question with universal value and natural standard of wellness healthy lifestyle choice.

Therefore while you're not a behavioral anthropologist nor an evolutionary psychologist, what you just prescribed for the nonreligious individuals to "live their life according to what they wanted to do for themselves and doing good things to others" is by far the most thoughtless and irresponsible scenario, IMO. Not to mention is the fact that while there's still no universal objective good on a political, philosophical, religious, or international level. How can you thereby justify any kind of action is good for specific recipients? When certain individual values and standards can be subjective and bias.

A Masochist said to a Sadist: "Hit Me!" Sadist replies: "No!"
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Posted 4/17/10

DomFortress wrote:

Before you ran off to start another infomercial or a cult, science can answer moral and ethical question with universal value and natural standard of wellness healthy lifestyle choice.

Therefore while you're not a behavioral anthropologist nor an evolutionary psychologist, what you just prescribed for the nonreligious individuals to "live their life according to what they wanted to do for themselves and doing good things to others" is by far the most thoughtless and irresponsible scenario, IMO. Not to mention is the fact that while there's still no universal objective good on a political, philosophical, religious, or international level. How can you thereby justify any kind of action is good for specific recipients? When certain individual values and standards can be subjective and bias.

A Masochist said to a Sadist: "Hit Me!" Sadist replies: "No!"


The good and bad are indeed varies between each individual as I said before. even killing and torturing others might be considered good when he valued the entire different minds set. For certain, everyone would like to be loved and to love. So love itself might purify your soul and others.
Posted 4/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Before you ran off to start another infomercial or a cult, science can answer moral and ethical question with universal value and natural standard of wellness healthy lifestyle choice.

Therefore while you're not a behavioral anthropologist nor an evolutionary psychologist, what you just prescribed for the nonreligious individuals to "live their life according to what they wanted to do for themselves and doing good things to others" is by far the most thoughtless and irresponsible scenario, IMO. Not to mention is the fact that while there's still no universal objective good on a political, philosophical, religious, or international level. How can you thereby justify any kind of action is good for specific recipients? When certain individual values and standards can be subjective and bias.

A Masochist said to a Sadist: "Hit Me!" Sadist replies: "No!"


The good and bad are indeed varies between each individual as I said before. even killing and torturing others might be considered good when he valued the entire different minds set. For certain, everyone would like to be loved and to love. So love itself might purify your soul and others.
Then are you saying that this Muslim father killed his two daughters out of fatherly love, within the context of love as told in Islamic faith?
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Posted 4/17/10

DomFortress wrote:

Then are you saying that this Muslim father killed his two daughters out of fatherly love, within the context of love as told in Islamic faith?


I don't have good connection enough to watch it. Maybe later, but killing family member is not justified. That's not religion act. Murder is allowed in self defense only. If anything, teach your children with passion, patient, more importantly kindness. That would purify the children spirituality.
Posted 4/17/10 , edited 4/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Then are you saying that this Muslim father killed his two daughters out of fatherly love, within the context of love as told in Islamic faith?


I don't have good connection enough to watch it. Maybe later, but killing family member is not justified. That's not religion act. Murder is allowed in self defense only. If anything, teach your children with passion, patient, more importantly kindness. That would purify the children spirituality.
That's not what the Islamic context/teaching of honor killing is about. When it's administrated within family members against Muslim women with different set of values and standards from the rest of their families.
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Posted 4/17/10

DomFortress wrote:

That's not what the Islamic context/teaching of honor killing is about. When it's administrated within family members against Muslim women with different set of values and standards from the rest of their families.


That's not Islamic ways as you can see in your own sources, the most incidents is occurred in poor country without clear law and regulation when the rest of muslims people values it differently. That's different topic.
Posted 4/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

That's not what the Islamic context/teaching of honor killing is about. When it's administrated within family members against Muslim women with different set of values and standards from the rest of their families.


That's not Islamic ways as you can see in your own sources, the most incidents is occurred in poor country without clear law and regulation when the rest of muslims people values it differently. That's different topic.
My second source were documenting Islamic honor killing done by Muslim families in Germany. Or are you telling me that those families who had the resources to migrate and settle into Germany, were just as poor and lawless as those that hadn't?
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Posted 4/17/10

DomFortress wrote:

My second source were documenting Islamic honor killing done by Muslim families in Germany. Or are you telling me that those families who had the resources to migrate and settle into Germany, were just as poor and lawless as those that hadn't?


Even that's not in Islamic laws, it was done by people who still hold their values from extremist value. Taking other people's lives without regarding to self-defense are sin that resulting in punishment in afterlife. Instead of purify one's soul, it stains others and self. It is really different topic.
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Posted 4/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

My second source were documenting Islamic honor killing done by Muslim families in Germany. Or are you telling me that those families who had the resources to migrate and settle into Germany, were just as poor and lawless as those that hadn't?


Even that's not in Islamic laws, it was done by people who still hold their values from extremist value. Taking other people's lives without regarding to self-defense are sin that resulting in punishment in afterlife. Instead of purify one's soul, it stains others and self. It is really different topic.


Another no true Scotsman.
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Posted 4/17/10

DerfelCadarn wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

My second source were documenting Islamic honor killing done by Muslim families in Germany. Or are you telling me that those families who had the resources to migrate and settle into Germany, were just as poor and lawless as those that hadn't?


Even that's not in Islamic laws, it was done by people who still hold their values from extremist value. Taking other people's lives without regarding to self-defense are sin that resulting in punishment in afterlife. Instead of purify one's soul, it stains others and self. It is really different topic.


Another no true Scotsman.


Maybe one should learn more about the topic before jumping to conclusion. One might says, Christian Catholic are all pedophile due to numerous cases of sexual abuses committed by priest, bishop and other high officer. But would you label all Christian Catholic as pedophile and sex offender? No, that's not what their teaching is. Same goes to Islam. Not the religion, but the people.
Posted 4/17/10 , edited 4/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

My second source were documenting Islamic honor killing done by Muslim families in Germany. Or are you telling me that those families who had the resources to migrate and settle into Germany, were just as poor and lawless as those that hadn't?


Even that's not in Islamic laws, it was done by people who still hold their values from extremist value. Taking other people's lives without regarding to self-defense are sin that resulting in punishment in afterlife. Instead of purify one's soul, it stains others and self. It is really different topic.
Then what's preventing these radically extreme acts within Middle Eastern countries not being punished in the here and now by Islamic justice? When secular Muslims openly condemned the act of honor killing. Just then who are the infidels? Those who committed such acts within the Muslim community, or those who are powerless to stop them with their Islamic faith.
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Posted 4/17/10

DomFortress wrote:

Then what's preventing these radically extreme acts within Middle Eastern countries not being punished in the here and now by Islamic justice? When secular Muslims openly condemned the act of honor killing. Just then who are the infidels? Those who committed such acts within the Muslim community, or those who are powerless to stop them with their Islamic faith.


The people in middle-east also not supporting the honor killing for spirituality purification. There's no law stated in the its guidance, either in Qur'an or hadits. It just the extremist people who interpret it to show their influence on women. And in Islam, there's no being that qualified to judge whether their act is wrong or right, since it's too vague. We left it to god for such thing. But when you act according to holy book, that's when we call it right.
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Posted 4/17/10 , edited 4/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DerfelCadarn wrote:


Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

My second source were documenting Islamic honor killing done by Muslim families in Germany. Or are you telling me that those families who had the resources to migrate and settle into Germany, were just as poor and lawless as those that hadn't?


Even that's not in Islamic laws, it was done by people who still hold their values from extremist value. Taking other people's lives without regarding to self-defense are sin that resulting in punishment in afterlife. Instead of purify one's soul, it stains others and self. It is really different topic.


Another no true Scotsman.


Maybe one should learn more about the topic before jumping to conclusion. One might says, Christian Catholic are all pedophile due to numerous cases of sexual abuses committed by priest, bishop and other high officer. But would you label all Christian Catholic as pedophile and sex offender? No, that's not what their teaching is. Same goes to Islam. Not the religion, but the people.


Maybe one should go on to familiarise oneself with rules of argumentation that may aid one in debates and save one from looking like a fool.

I have never claimed that suicide bombing, or in the case of Catholicism, paedophilia describe all adherents. You are making a fool of yourself trying to refute a claim I have never argued. Suicide bombers are Muslim the same way that Catholic paedo priests are Catholic, and no holy scripture or teachings will change it.
Posted 4/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Then what's preventing these radically extreme acts within Middle Eastern countries not being punished in the here and now by Islamic justice? When secular Muslims openly condemned the act of honor killing. Just then who are the infidels? Those who committed such acts within the Muslim community, or those who are powerless to stop them with their Islamic faith.


The people in middle-east also not supporting the honor killing for spirituality purification. There's no law stated in the its guidance, either in Qur'an or hadits. It just the extremist people who interpret it to show their influence on women. And in Islam, there's no being that qualified to judge whether their act is wrong or right, since it's too vague. We left it to god for such thing. But when you act according to holy book, that's when we call it right.
So all this time the teaching of Islamic faith is a complete lack of compassion and judgment in the name of God?! HOLY ISLAMIC BATMAN!
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