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China tries to sterilise 10,000 parents over one-child rule
Posted 4/21/10
Here is a bit of the article I am going to link soon below, so what are your opinions on this ?? I find it to be rather disgusting and against human rights violations laws and so on. This is just really bs in My eyes and I really do feel sorry for those people that are forced to go through this. What are your thoughts and opinions on this?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7099417.ece#cid=OTC-RSS&attr=2015164
Posted 4/21/10 , edited 4/21/10
Had those government officials and doctors conducted the same sterilization process on themselves and their children first, at least then they're fulfilling the universal human rights of equality.

If not, then it's just a bunch of elitists discriminating humanity as some sort of domesticated livestock. And lied about it in open public.
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Posted 4/21/10 , edited 4/21/10
Hmm i remember hearing before that the Chinese government (Mao) in the past wanted to have more babies so as to outlast a nuclear war with USA. In the 1970s, to prevent overpopulation which will exceed what the country can provide and feed, the controversial 1 child rule was introduced. It should be noted that China's 1 child rule was favorably accepted there.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=261

Couples should have the freedom to choose how many children they want but educated on family planning and means to provide for family should they have children. When families are too poor to have children or have just too many, some are sold or given away, or are unable to have access to proper education as do not have the means to get them. This is even worst fate for girls who are born as they are considered inferior in a lot of cultures.

The 1 child rule is just a stop gap measure for China, they should look into providing education and the means for people to be better off especially to the poor and the rural countryside. There should also be aid for those who are poor with children.

An interesting case is Singapore where after the World War 2, the Singapore government made it less attractive for couples to have more than 2 children, so as to curb overpopulation. Now with falling birth rates, the concern is the lack of local talent to handle the country and the workforce as well as an aging population, Singapore is encouraging more couples to have children and inviting foreign talent to come and stay and work in Singapore. Problem is the family planning work too well, birth rates are still falling.
Posted 4/21/10 , edited 4/21/10

Northboundsnow wrote:

Hmm i remember hearing before that the Chinese government (Mao) in the past wanted to have more babies so as to outlast a nuclear war with USA. In the 1970s, to prevent overpopulation which will exceed what the country can provide and feed, the controversial 1 child rule was introduced. It should be noted that China's 1 child rule was favorably accepted there.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=261

Couples should have the freedom to choose how many children they want but educated on family planning and means to provide for family should they have children. When families are too poor to have children or have just too many, some are sold or given away, or are unable to have access to proper education as do not have the means to get them. This is even worst fate for girls who are born as they are considered inferior in a lot of cultures.

The 1 child rule is just a stop gap measure for China, they should look into providing education and the means for people to be better off especially to the poor and the rural countryside. There should also be aid for those who are poor with children.

An interesting case is Singapore where after the World War 2, the Singapore government made it less attractive for couples to have more than 2 children, so as to curb overpopulation. Now with falling birth rates, the concern is the lack of local talent to handle the country and the workforce as well as an aging population, Singapore is encouraging more couples to have children and inviting foreign talent to come and stay and work in Singapore.
Now there's the rub, a cultural influence of discriminating and objectifying women and children as the social norms. This male-dominated behavior pattern is a hallmark for a society of patriarchy, which is especially true when in time of crisis due to lack of resources.

Furthermore, when we consider just how the Chinese authorities are institutionalizing their method of family planning is equally inhumane, by them "detaining the relatives of those who resist" the forced sterilization. It's therefore not hard for us to see a behavioral pattern of vicious circle, of Chinese elitists treating their citizens as domesticated livestock:

These people can't leave because they're too poor and uneducated to go anywhere else, while they're being held captive and penalized by the very authoritative figures that's supposed to keep them safe and prosperous. This is the reality of Chinese policy at work; exploiting the poorer counties so that the richer counties can become even richer, a perfect model exemplar for how the shock doctrine of disaster capitalism works.
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Posted 4/21/10
'Well I guess I am no better than they are. I believe people should have to get parenting Licenses to have kids.IN order to better are community and economic growth. Keep poor people from having more kids in order to be a bigger drain on tax payers. Also In order to battle the creations of slums, and the formation of gangs and thugs. Its all for the better of are living conditions and stopping the strains that the over breeding of certain parties has on us economically.
Posted 4/21/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'Well I guess I am no better than they are. I believe people should have to get parenting Licenses to have kids.IN order to better are community and economic growth. Keep poor people from having more kids in order to be a bigger drain on tax payers. Also In order to battle the creations of slums, and the formation of gangs and thugs. Its all for the better of are living conditions and stopping the strains that the over breeding of certain parties has on us economically.


no comment... on your post but what china is doing is a totally different matter. they are punishing people for having kids or only 1 kid in general even if they are able to take care of them. All china cares about is having sons and could care less about having daughters since woman there have little or no rights at all. The country is going to be only male by these standards if they continue to do this and there population will continue decrease greatly because you can not make children with out the opposite sex "unless china knows something we don't" that's all I am going to post sigh my mood is not good anymore and my outlook on-life isn't good either.
Posted 4/21/10

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'Well I guess I am no better than they are. I believe people should have to get parenting Licenses to have kids.IN order to better are community and economic growth. Keep poor people from having more kids in order to be a bigger drain on tax payers. Also In order to battle the creations of slums, and the formation of gangs and thugs. Its all for the better of are living conditions and stopping the strains that the over breeding of certain parties has on us economically.


no comment... on your post but what china is doing is a totally different matter. they are punishing people for having kids or only 1 kid in general even if they are able to take care of them. All china cares about is having sons and could care less about having daughters since woman there have little or no rights at all. The country is going to be only male by these standards if they continue to do this and there population will continue decrease greatly because you can not make children with out the opposite sex "unless china knows something we don't" that's all I am going to post sigh my mood is not good anymore and my outlook on-life isn't good either.


You're right, there is no comment for such a post, but anyway I herd China was going through overpopulation, so it isn't shocking that this type of treatment is occurring. When I look at the news, the things that go on in the world become less and less shocking, since it's easy to foretell by the way the world is going.
Posted 4/21/10 , edited 4/21/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'Well I guess I am no better than they are. I believe people should have to get parenting Licenses to have kids.IN order to better are community and economic growth. Keep poor people from having more kids in order to be a bigger drain on tax payers. Also In order to battle the creations of slums, and the formation of gangs and thugs. Its all for the better of are living conditions and stopping the strains that the over breeding of certain parties has on us economically.

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'Well I guess I am no better than they are. I believe people should have to get parenting Licenses to have kids.IN order to better are community and economic growth. Keep poor people from having more kids in order to be a bigger drain on tax payers. Also In order to battle the creations of slums, and the formation of gangs and thugs. Its all for the better of are living conditions and stopping the strains that the over breeding of certain parties has on us economically.


no comment... on your post but what china is doing is a totally different matter. they are punishing people for having kids or only 1 kid in general even if they are able to take care of them. All china cares about is having sons and could care less about having daughters since woman there have little or no rights at all. The country is going to be only male by these standards if they continue to do this and there population will continue decrease greatly because you can not make children with out the opposite sex "unless china knows something we don't" that's all I am going to post sigh my mood is not good anymore and my outlook on-life isn't good either.

LosingOrbit wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'Well I guess I am no better than they are. I believe people should have to get parenting Licenses to have kids.IN order to better are community and economic growth. Keep poor people from having more kids in order to be a bigger drain on tax payers. Also In order to battle the creations of slums, and the formation of gangs and thugs. Its all for the better of are living conditions and stopping the strains that the over breeding of certain parties has on us economically.


no comment... on your post but what china is doing is a totally different matter. they are punishing people for having kids or only 1 kid in general even if they are able to take care of them. All china cares about is having sons and could care less about having daughters since woman there have little or no rights at all. The country is going to be only male by these standards if they continue to do this and there population will continue decrease greatly because you can not make children with out the opposite sex "unless china knows something we don't" that's all I am going to post sigh my mood is not good anymore and my outlook on-life isn't good either.


You're right, there is no comment for such a post, but anyway I herd China was going through overpopulation, so it isn't shocking that this type of treatment is occurring. When I look at the news, the things that go on in the world become less and less shocking, since it's easy to foretell by the way the world is going.
There's even hope and a piece of heaven on earth in an overpopulated slum, if you know where to look, that is.

Not only that, it's more important that you don't fall victim to despair, because that's where destructive capitalism will leave humanity as; a broken husk of a human waste with nothing to exploit by the system. For that's what the mass medias wanted you to feel, when they don't tell stories of success because they're bias that only trauma and tragedy sell news.
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Posted 4/21/10

DomFortress wrote:

Not only that, it's more important that you don't fall victim to despair, because that's where destructive capitalism will leave humanity as; a broken husk of a human waste with nothing to exploit by the system. For that's what the mass medias wanted you to feel.


Destructive capitalism ? Capitalism isn't destructive, its productive, it creates jobs, wealth, lots of products.

Well its not capitalism itself, its the businesses that exist because of capitalism that do that. Businesses create wealth, prosperity, jobs, products, not government. Government does the exact opposite usually.

Back to the topic tho

If you have 1 ideal family consisting of

1 Father.
1 Mother.
1 Son.
1 Daughter.

You have a family of 4 people, if those 2 kids each have 2 kids of their own, you now have 4 kids, then if those 4 kids each have 2 kids, you have 8, then 16, then 32, then 64 and so on.

so each generation if each kid goes on to have 2 kids of their own, with each generation the population will multiply by itself, or it will square itself. But you still have to remember you still have the parents of the previous generation and maybe even the generation before that.

Now china has around a billion people, but for simplicity sake lets say they only have 100,000 kids, 100,000 squared is 10,000,000,000 or Ten Billion people

Of course that's not perfect since people die due to old age and unexpected things like getting hit by trucks or getting cancer or something, so it won't perfectly square itself but it can still get somewhat close.
Posted 4/21/10
It's sad when a country outgrows its ability to support its populace. This keeps happening in too many places. Soon enough, this whole planet will require a jettisoning of all the undesirable people to better manage the population. Even renewable resources have their limits.
Posted 4/21/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Not only that, it's more important that you don't fall victim to despair, because that's where destructive capitalism will leave humanity as; a broken husk of a human waste with nothing to exploit by the system. For that's what the mass medias wanted you to feel.


Destructive capitalism ? Capitalism isn't destructive, its productive, it creates jobs, wealth, lots of products.

Well its not capitalism itself, its the businesses that exist because of capitalism that do that. Businesses create wealth, prosperity, jobs, products, not government. Government does the exact opposite usually.

Back to the topic tho

If you have 1 ideal family consisting of

1 Father.
1 Mother.
1 Son.
1 Daughter.

You have a family of 4 people, if those 2 kids each have 2 kids of their own, you now have 4 kids, then if those 4 kids each have 2 kids, you have 8, then 16, then 32, then 64 and so on.

so each generation if each kid goes on to have 2 kids of their own, with each generation the population will multiply by itself, or it will square itself. But you still have to remember you still have the parents of the previous generation and maybe even the generation before that.

Now china has around a billion people, but for simplicity sake lets say they only have 100,000 kids, 100,000 squared is 10,000,000,000 or Ten Billion people

Of course that's not perfect since people die due to old age and unexpected things like getting hit by trucks or getting cancer or something, so it won't perfectly square itself but it can still get somewhat close.
Who's your sociology teacher? Or do you think that social planning is based on a bunch of imaginary figures and "ifs"?

OTOH if you looked at my claim, you'll see that my allegation was based on empirical knowledge as well as real statistics, meaning objective truth with credibility. Therefore your claim is not even perfect, when it's just unrealistic made-belief.


Glock45 wrote:

It's sad when a country outgrows its ability to support its populace. This keeps happening in too many places. Soon enough, this whole planet will require a jettisoning of all the undesirable people to better manage the population. Even renewable resources have their limits.
Not according to my expectation of the world, when it's only a matter of taking the time to do it right with patient capitalism. However just like moral and ethic, patient as a virtue had not been the highlights of destructive capitalism.
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Posted 4/21/10
You cant blame their government for doing this. The population of the country is 1.4 billion i believe. That is just too many. They are just making an example out of a few. IMO its more inhumane to let the population continue to grow. Why is it more inhumane? Go figure.
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Posted 4/21/10 , edited 4/21/10

DomFortress wrote:

Who's your sociology teacher? Or do you think that social planning is based on a bunch of imaginary figures and "ifs"?

OTOH if you looked at my claim, you'll see that my allegation was based on empirical knowledge as well as real statistics, meaning objective truth with credibility. Therefore your claim is not even perfect, when it's just unrealistic made-belief.


I don't have any sociology teacher, but i know it as fact that businesses make a healthy economy and that government run economies are shit, Look at the communist countries excluding china, their economies are weak and everyone is poor. Your telling me that a communist / socialist economy is better than a capitalist economy ? Prove it, what country with a communist / socialist economy has a stronger economy then a capitalist country of equal size / population ?

Look at North Korea their communist and have more people than south Korea which is capatist, and South Korea economy is much stronger, look at the japanese back when, they had the second most powerful economy in the world, seconded only by America and they don't have as many people, the japanese economy was stronger then russias or chinas, but they screwed that up for themselves.

Give me one country that is communist that has a better economy and quality of life than a capitalist country of equal population since you like communism so much, name one. Excuding china since they have a hybrid economy

When it comes to raw economic power, economies that are pro business / low taxes will always win.
Posted 4/21/10

vinsane01 wrote:

You cant blame their government for doing this. The population of the country is 1.4 billion i believe. That is just too many. They are just making an example out of a few. IMO its more inhumane to let the population continue to grow. Why is it more inhumane? Go figure.
Because you're selfish, in a sense that as long as you're not the one that's being made as an example you don't give a damn?


Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Who's your sociology teacher? Or do you think that social planning is based on a bunch of imaginary figures and "ifs"?

OTOH if you looked at my claim, you'll see that my allegation was based on empirical knowledge as well as real statistics, meaning objective truth with credibility. Therefore your claim is not even perfect, when it's just unrealistic made-belief.


I don't have any sociology teacher, but i know it as fact that businesses make a healthy economy and that government run economies are shit, Look at the communist countries excluding china, their economies are weak and everyone is poor. Your telling me that a communist / socialist economy is better than a capitalist economy ? Prove it, what country with a communist / socialist economy has a stronger economy then a capitalist country of equal size / population ?

Look at North Korea their communist and have more people than south Korea which is capatist, and South Korea economy is much stronger, look at the japanese back when, they had the second most powerful economy in the world, seconded only by America and they don't have as many people, the japanese economy was stronger then russias or chinas, but they screwed that up for themselves.

Give me one country that is communist that has a better economy and quality of life than a capitalist country of equal population since you like communism so much, name one. Excuding china since they have a hybrid economy

When it comes to raw economic power, economies that are pro business / low taxes will always win.
Get it through your head, while communism and socialism are all sociological ideologies, only capitalism is a pure economic ideology with no concern of social well being.

Therefore while your bias opinion on capitalism completely blinded your view on the topic, which is about the social well being of the people and not economy. You also overgeneralized my stance as an inspired sociologist, not an economist nor a communist. I don't believe a "win-loose" situation nor am I here to play the "zero-sum" game, so you can stop talking nonsense about your obsession with capitalism. Because right now you're a poster child for materialism, not humanitarianism.
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Posted 4/21/10

DomFortress wrote:


Get it through your head, while communism and socialism are all sociological ideologies, only capitalism is a pure economic ideology with no concern of social well being.

Therefore while your bias opinion on capitalism completely blinded your view on the topic, which is about the social well being of the people and not economy. You also overgeneralized my stance as an inspired sociologist, not an economist nor a communist. I don't believe a "win-loose" situation nor am I here to play the "zero-sum" game, so you can stop talking nonsense about your obsession with capitalism. Because right now you're a poster child for materialism, not humanitarianism.


That's not what I was talking about, I was talking purely economic tho.

The social well being of a person should be up to that person, people should take care of themselves. People should be responsible for themselves. If they can't do that, then well I guess their out of luck, however there are exceptions tho, like if someone is disabled mentally or physically of course, or something.

But if a fully capable person should be able to take care of themselves

Why do we need someone to take care of us ? My life is my responsiblity, how i life my life is my responsiblity, its not for someone else to decide. If i wanna live like a slob then that is my right, just like if i don't wanna live like a slob its my right, it should be an indivudals right to decide how he / she lives his / her life.


However that's idealy and not the case in china, which is overpopulated.

And in response to that overpopulation in china the govt has said only one kid per household, which is a good thing in that case, as the population would rise from 1 billion which is already over populated to some unsustainable number and then the quality of life would just get even worse. Its not nessarly a bad thing to only have one kid, keeps the cost down, less stress on the parent / s. whats the problem ?

However i think forcebly sterilizing someone to prevent them from having kids may be a little extreme, but that's not for me or you to decide, its up to the chinese government to decide. Each country has its own way of doing things and that's their right. Nothing I nor you could really do about it, and complaining or picketing doesn't accomplish anything execpt to annoy people.


I don't believe there is such a thing as a true "win win" situation, nothing is perfect, that applies to govt, economies or social policies, there is always some downside to something no matter what it is, thus nothing is ever a win win, its always a win-lose in way
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