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Animal Equality
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Posted 1/3/08 , edited 1/4/08
its been kinda bothering me for a while and i'd just like to divert ppl's attention towards 'animal racism'

we all agree that racism is wrong and that asians, americans, irish or swedish or watever race u are, we are all equal, i kno racism is still a problem but at least we try to stop it.. but wat about racism towards animals?? we ARE animals ourselves, why is there such a distinguished line between animal and human??

why are there such questions as "Do you like Cats more or Dogs?"

then lemme ask you, "Do you like Asians more or Americans?"
slightly offended, perhaps??

and to the horse lover: why do u like Arabians more than Palaminos?
(not picking on horse lovers on purpose)

sure, i understand that u may admire the brutalness of the shark or envy thepower of the tiger or take pleasure in the wonderful array of colours exotic birds have to offer, you may admire something the wolf has that the newt duznt... but in the end, arent we all equal?? why do we set out bird feeders and lay out mouse traps?? why do we favour one animal and shun another??

edit: if u disagree with the term 'racism' then we'll say discrimination
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Posted 1/3/08
I guess because the difference in animals are not in their "race", but in their species.

The concept of Equality can only be upheld within a society. We can question the equality within a society of say giraffes, e.g. "Why do you like this particular race of giraffes than the other races?" Then that's a legitimate question of equality.

But we can't ask a question of equality between different species with different societies. There's no parameter that glues them.
Posted 1/3/08
I doubt we are all equal but if it's to respect life, I could understand.

Some are seen as pests while others are considered more majestic. Safuranmodoki, do you still swat flys and mosquitos?
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Posted 1/3/08
yet theyre still different races shouldnt it be all down to their personality, whether it be a wolf or a rat?



vajmichael wrote:

I doubt we are all equal but if it's to respect life, I could understand.

Some are seen as pests while others are considered more majestic. Safuranmodoki, do you still swat flys and mosquitos?


never >< i hate it when ppl do that, no matter how pesky, theyre still lives, they shouldnt be done away with that easily and without a second thought
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Posted 1/4/08

Safuranmodoki wrote:

yet theyre still different races shouldnt it be all down to their personality, whether it be a wolf or a rat?


Um. They don't have personalities. They're not persons. They have individual traits and characteristics, which is natural, but not personality. Personal preference for any of them would be the same thing as choosing between.. say.. apples or oranges.

Its not really racist. Race is a subcategory of a species in a social context. There has got to be a society where one species is predominant, then we can raise the question of racism within that species.
Posted 1/4/08
Do you eat vegetables only then? If you are offered the cooked flesh of a slain animal would you eat it?
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Posted 1/4/08
1) I would like to stop a certain misconception before it continues - It is a scientifically proven fact, there is no such thing as "race." It is an artificially fabricated social construct merely based upon physical and/or cultural differences, and used so as to create a sense of superiority.

2) It is my personal belief that all life should be respected, but I also believe that respect is something earned and not unconditionally given. That said, there are also different forms of respect - a wolf is respected for entirely different reasons than maybe someone/something you admire.

3) Humans are nothing more than apes that figured out how to use fire, tools, and complex language...Without these we would be nothing more than your average ape. Still, one could argue that certain individuals are even less deserving of being called "human" than some animals...

4) Pets often hold a place in the hearts of individuals and families of a status virtually equal to a member of the family. (Note: If you had me choose between one of my pets living and some person I don't know or have ever met, I'd choose my pet)

5) Animals that are often seen as pests or as threats are done so for good reason. Instinct has taught us that certain animals, most often predators like wolves, are threats, while those that destroy crops/livestock or make life more difficult/annoying are pests. These are thus understandably given a different status.

6) And finally, certain animals are considered food because they are lower than us on our food chain...


projectcedric wrote:

Um. They don't have personalities. They're not persons. They have individual traits and characteristics, which is natural, but not personality.

1) You can't prove that...

2) You obviously don't have pets or you would know how incorrect you are with that statement...
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Posted 1/4/08

projectcedric wrote:


Safuranmodoki wrote:

yet theyre still different races shouldnt it be all down to their personality, whether it be a wolf or a rat?


Um. They don't have personalities. They're not persons. They have individual traits and characteristics, which is natural, but not personality. Personal preference for any of them would be the same thing as choosing between.. say.. apples or oranges.

Its not really racist. Race is a subcategory of a species in a social context. There has got to be a society where one species is predominant, then we can raise the question of racism within that species.


but wat do u mean they dont have personalities?? my cat is sweet, caring, a wimp but would never hurt anyone even if u step on her tail, loves to lick fingers and purrs alot and is noisy

my friend has the exact same breed of cat and his cat is quiet, shy and duznt like to lick ppl and never purrs

another friend has a cat too, her cat is distrusting and violent

i think thats proof enough that animals have personalities


vajmichael wrote:

Do you eat vegetables only then? If you are offered the cooked flesh of a slain animal would you eat it?


thats not wat i mean, wat im saying isnt why do we eat cows and not lions, wat im saying is why do we lay out mouse traps but set out bird feeders?? wat makes it so that birds deserve to live but mice are to die? we're all equal arent we? its not as if we're gonna eat the mice so why do we eliminate them?
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Posted 1/4/08

sheighton wrote:

1) I would like to stop a certain misconception before it continues - It is a scientifically proven fact, there is no such thing as "race." It is an artificially fabricated social construct merely based upon physical and/or cultural differences, and used so as to create a sense of superiority.

2) It is my personal belief that all life should be respected, but I also believe that respect is something earned and not unconditionally given. That said, there are also different forms of respect - a wolf is respected for entirely different reasons than maybe someone/something you admire.

3) Humans are nothing more than apes that figured out how to use fire, tools, and complex language...Without these we would be nothing more than your average ape. Still, one could argue that certain individuals are even less deserving of being called "human" than some animals...

4) Pets often hold a place in the hearts of individuals and families of a status virtually equal to a member of the family. (Note: If you had me choose between one of my pets living and some person I don't know or have ever met, I'd choose my pet)

5) Animals that are often seen as pests or as threats are done so for good reason. Instinct has taught us that certain animals, most often predators like wolves, are threats, while those that destroy crops/livestock or make life more difficult/annoying are pests. These are thus understandably given a different status.

6) And finally, certain animals are considered food because they are lower than us on our food chain...


projectcedric wrote:

Um. They don't have personalities. They're not persons. They have individual traits and characteristics, which is natural, but not personality.

1) You can't prove that...

2) You obviously don't have pets or you would know how incorrect you are with that statement...


1.) Personality comes from the root word "person". Its a character trait of a person being a homo sapiens. Animals have individual character traits but not personalities.

2.) Ive had well loved pets including a dog and 2 ducklings. Thanks for asking first.

I would like to also take this opportunity question the truthfulness of the following paragraph:


sheighton wrote:
3) Humans are nothing more than apes that figured out how to use fire, tools, and complex language...Without these we would be nothing more than your average ape. Still, one could argue that certain individuals are even less deserving of being called "human" than some animals...


In Evolution, there is still a big gap(no discernible information) between the ape and the earliest human ancestor. We still don't know if we indeed came from the ape species or something else.
Posted 1/4/08
What I was trying to point out was that why favor beasts over plants which also have life.

Also, I think eating certain creatures are unhealthy for our bodies for the long run.
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Posted 1/4/08

Safuranmodoki wrote:


projectcedric wrote:


Safuranmodoki wrote:

yet theyre still different races shouldnt it be all down to their personality, whether it be a wolf or a rat?


Um. They don't have personalities. They're not persons. They have individual traits and characteristics, which is natural, but not personality. Personal preference for any of them would be the same thing as choosing between.. say.. apples or oranges.

Its not really racist. Race is a subcategory of a species in a social context. There has got to be a society where one species is predominant, then we can raise the question of racism within that species.


but wat do u mean they dont have personalities?? my cat is sweet, caring, a wimp but would never hurt anyone even if u step on her tail, loves to lick fingers and purrs alot and is noisy

my friend has the exact same breed of cat and his cat is quiet, shy and duznt like to lick ppl and never purrs

another friend has a cat too, her cat is distrusting and violent

i think thats proof enough that animals have personalities


My explanation on why they don't have "personalities" is above this post.

I do not doubt that they have individual traits and characteristics though.
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Posted 1/4/08


vajmichael wrote:

What I was trying to point out was that why favor beasts over plants which also have life.

Also, I think eating certain creatures are unhealthy for our bodies for the long run.


thats also true that plants also have life.. personally i dont see anything wrong with killing for food so i dont see anything wrong with eating vegetables, but i DO have a problem with excessive cutting down trees.. but thats somewhat beside the topic...


projectcedric wrote:


Safuranmodoki wrote:


projectcedric wrote:


Safuranmodoki wrote:

yet theyre still different races shouldnt it be all down to their personality, whether it be a wolf or a rat?


Um. They don't have personalities. They're not persons. They have individual traits and characteristics, which is natural, but not personality. Personal preference for any of them would be the same thing as choosing between.. say.. apples or oranges.

Its not really racist. Race is a subcategory of a species in a social context. There has got to be a society where one species is predominant, then we can raise the question of racism within that species.


but wat do u mean they dont have personalities?? my cat is sweet, caring, a wimp but would never hurt anyone even if u step on her tail, loves to lick fingers and purrs alot and is noisy

my friend has the exact same breed of cat and his cat is quiet, shy and duznt like to lick ppl and never purrs

another friend has a cat too, her cat is distrusting and violent

i think thats proof enough that animals have personalities


My explanation on why they don't have "personalities" is above this post.

I do not doubt that they have individual traits and characteristics though.


personalities ARE individual traits, are they not?? my good traits are that im generous and caring and my bad traits are that im lazy and stubborn, that makes part of my personality

my cat's good traits are that she's always optimistic and is extremely gentle, her bad traits are that she's lethargic and may ignore you, that makes up HER personality, am i not right?
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Posted 1/4/08

Safuranmodoki wrote:

its been kinda bothering me for a while and i'd just like to divert ppl's attention towards 'animal racism'

we all agree that racism is wrong and that asians, americans, irish or swedish or watever race u are, we are all equal, i kno racism is still a problem but at least we try to stop it.. but wat about racism towards animals?? we ARE animals ourselves, why is there such a distinguished line between animal and human??

why are there such questions as "Do you like Cats more or Dogs?"

then lemme ask you, "Do you like Asians more or Americans?"
slightly offended, perhaps??

and to the horse lover: why do u like Arabians more than Palaminos?
(not picking on horse lovers on purpose)

sure, i understand that u may admire the brutalness of the shark or envy thepower of the tiger or take pleasure in the wonderful array of colours exotic birds have to offer, you may admire something the wolf has that the newt duznt... but in the end, arent we all equal?? why do we set out bird feeders and lay out mouse traps?? why do we favour one animal and shun another??


I totally agree with you, safuranmodoki. We should treat animals as equals and not act so inferior towards them. After all, they're lives too. >_< That's why, my family don't kill mice. We usually set up the traps(the one which traps a mouse in a cage when it thugs onto the food), and release them near the forest. I love animals, and I would never want them to be killed, if not for the sake of surviving on food.
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Posted 1/4/08

Safuranmodoki wrote:


projectcedric wrote:


Safuranmodoki wrote:


projectcedric wrote:


Safuranmodoki wrote:

yet theyre still different races shouldnt it be all down to their personality, whether it be a wolf or a rat?


Um. They don't have personalities. They're not persons. They have individual traits and characteristics, which is natural, but not personality. Personal preference for any of them would be the same thing as choosing between.. say.. apples or oranges.

Its not really racist. Race is a subcategory of a species in a social context. There has got to be a society where one species is predominant, then we can raise the question of racism within that species.


but wat do u mean they dont have personalities?? my cat is sweet, caring, a wimp but would never hurt anyone even if u step on her tail, loves to lick fingers and purrs alot and is noisy

my friend has the exact same breed of cat and his cat is quiet, shy and duznt like to lick ppl and never purrs

another friend has a cat too, her cat is distrusting and violent

i think thats proof enough that animals have personalities


My explanation on why they don't have "personalities" is above this post.

I do not doubt that they have individual traits and characteristics though.


personalities ARE individual traits, are they not?? my good traits are that im generous and caring and my bad traits are that im lazy and stubborn, that makes part of my personality

my cat's good traits are that she's always optimistic and is extremely gentle, her bad traits are that she's lethargic and may ignore you, that makes up HER personality, am i not right?


From Merriam Online Dictionary:


Personality

1 a: the quality or state of being a person b: personal existence
2 a: the condition or fact of relating to a particular person; specifically : the condition of referring directly to or being aimed disparagingly or hostilely at an individual b: an offensively personal remark <angrily resorted to personalities>


Note: the word "person" (underlined) in the definition, i.e. it has to be a person.

From the same dictionary:

Person
1: human individual —sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes <chairperson><spokesperson>

Note: the word "human". It must be a human.

From the same dictionary:

Human
: a bipedal primate mammal (Homo sapiens: man; broadly : hominid


Conclusion: "personality" is not the same as individual trait. "Personality" is a trait or characteristic of a specific species in a specific order of animals: Homo Sapiens. Which is us.
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Posted 1/4/08

projectcedric wrote:

I would like to also take this opportunity question the truthfulness of the following paragraph:


sheighton wrote:
3) Humans are nothing more than apes that figured out how to use fire, tools, and complex language...Without these we would be nothing more than your average ape. Still, one could argue that certain individuals are even less deserving of being called "human" than some animals...


In Evolution, there is still a big gap(no discernible information) between the ape and the earliest human ancestor. We still don't know if we indeed came from the ape species or something else.


Question away, but science has clearly shown that what I said is true. How? Science has said over the years that humans, chimpanzees, and bonobos share roughly 98% of their genomes in common and recent analysis of the genomes has shown all three to have a common ancestor. So, yes my statement is correct and you hypothesis is partially so...We don't know what that common ancestor was exactly but we do know that it was an ape...

As for the use of "person" I love your little dictionary use, but I think that is being a bit limiting don't you? I mean what makes humans so important anyways? Is it that we use fire and tools? Or maybe that we have opposable thumbs? Look at it this way, without fire we would have no cooked food and thus a heavily muscled jaw. Heavily muscled jaws exert more pressure upon the cranium thus reducing the the size of the brain. So therefore it is likely that we never would have developed the use of complex tools, language, or thought...So what does that make us? A one in a billion long shot that just happened to have things go its way? And not just once, no but time and time again? Yeah, I'd say that's about right...
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