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Right to Die
Posted 4/30/10 , edited 4/30/10
There has always been an argument over suicide and whether or not it is wrong. Yet, suppose you are in the most intense of inescapable pain that only death can save you from. The concept of the Right to Die has been spoken of by people such as Arthur Schopenhauer, Friedrich Nietzsche, and David Hume. In the Netherlands, you can chose to be euthanized at a clinic. The first person to have euthanized anyone was none other than Dr. Jack Kevorkian, who served time in prison for his ''criminal" acts.

I feel that if you have no other reason to be here and all you do is suffer, the choice is yours as to whether or not you want to die. Many religions condemn suicide, but consider this, is living in pain better than being dead with no pain? I, for one, would prefer to be "on the other side of the veil" than laying in a hospital bed staring at a wall in the dark while biting my own tongue off because of the pain. There is no reward in being courageous against something you can't change accompanied by the uncertainty of what lies beyond death's door. Even whales end their lives.
Posted 4/30/10 , edited 4/30/10
I can understand the nature of us feeling pain, when our ability to feeling is an universal vehicle that can go beyond our culture, civilization, or any other product of formality. Furthermore, when this ability is combined with our ability to imagine, we can form a cognitive simulation of other individual's state of mind, without us experiencing the exact same painful situation.

And since you invoked an individuals' right to die in order to end the pain, I will take upon myself to defend an individuals' dignity to survive in order to fight while endure the pain. Furthermore, when growing up is naturally painful due to the constant readjustment in an ever changing environment. I for one sees both pain and empowerment are inseparable if not essential for our individuals' survival, hence the saying goes "no pain, no gain".

Therefore while the nature of the beached whales is still an unknown mystery, I will not grant individuals their right to die other than for themselves to fight for their own survival. So they'll live and fight for another day as long as I concern.
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Posted 4/30/10
In war, there were cases where soldiers who will ask a fellow soldier to shoot them when they were mortally wounded. This left a great impact especially on the soldier who was put into such a position to shoot a fellow soldier and friend in arms.

I was thinking for most cases where treatment would be painful and a cure looks unlikely, depending on the will of the patient and advice from loved ones and doctors, hospice care should be considered. Rather than ending it immediately where there is no return,

Team medical Dragon - http://www.mangafox.com/manga/team_medical_dragon/v02/c014/

PS: Hope to hear what others may think about this b4 drawing any conclusion.
Posted 4/30/10

Northboundsnow wrote:

In war, there were cases where soldiers who will ask a fellow soldier to shoot them when they were mortally wounded. This left a great impact especially on the soldier who was put into such a position to shoot a fellow soldier and friend in arms.

I was thinking for most cases where treatment would be painful and a cure looks unlikely, depending on the will of the patient and advice from loved ones and doctors, hospice care should be considered. Rather than ending it immediately where there is no return.

Team medical Dragon - http://www.mangafox.com/manga/team_medical_dragon/v02/c014/

PS: Hope to hear what others may think about this b4 drawing any conclusion.
This concept requires both honesty and transparency, which could result a violation of doctor-patient confidentiality, IMO.

However, I personally think that doctor-patient confidentiality is a private method of disassociating the responsibility of both parties from the rest of the society. Thereby creating an opportunity to operate some unconventional practices, under the condition of privacy being disguised as building trust.
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Posted 4/30/10

DomFortress wrote:


Northboundsnow wrote:

In war, there were cases where soldiers who will ask a fellow soldier to shoot them when they were mortally wounded. This left a great impact especially on the soldier who was put into such a position to shoot a fellow soldier and friend in arms.

I was thinking for most cases where treatment would be painful and a cure looks unlikely, depending on the will of the patient and advice from loved ones and doctors, hospice care should be considered. Rather than ending it immediately where there is no return.

Team medical Dragon - http://www.mangafox.com/manga/team_medical_dragon/v02/c014/

PS: Hope to hear what others may think about this b4 drawing any conclusion.
This concept requires both honesty and transparency, which could result a violation of doctor-patient confidentiality, IMO.

However, I personally think that doctor-patient confidentiality is a private method of disassociating the responsibility of both parties from the rest of the society. Thereby creating an opportunity to operate some unconventional practices, under the condition of privacy being disguised as building trust.


On an unrelated note, nowadays, the doctors' profession doesn't seem to be a profession of sacrifice and care for the patient but rather an advancement of one's prestige and means of getting richer. Even research medical doctors in teaching institutions have links to and paid largely by private companies.

Honesty and transparency and doctor-patient confidentiality is important and to some extend I agree to your above post, (you can see such an example from the manga link from past post), there is a potential for abuse by doctors on their patient under the guise of doctor-patient confidentiality. Perhaps an option would be to provide information for both the patient and loved ones as well as allowing other patients under similar conditions together with advice from various doctor so that patients with loved ones can make an informed choice.

The doctor-patient only confidentiality is stretched but it may act as a means to prevent abuse. Ultimately its up to the patient, some patients prefer to keep their health problems between themselves and their doctors only.
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Posted 4/30/10
Ahhh! This subject is maddeningly frustrating for me.

My 79 yr. old dad is declining into his past within his mind ( not Alzheimer's, but a symptom of age & senility ). His body declines as well-- his every action & movement is in slow motion-- as if he's moving in water. This slowed muscle movement affects his whole body, most critically the throat muscles involved w/ swallowing. He refuses a feeding tube, & in order to feed himself, all his food must be the thickness of pudding to allow the swallow reflex to kick in before he aspirates it, which would likely result in aspirated pneumonia. The same slow muscle movement complicates eating by taking an hour or more to finish. Speech has all but disappeared into whispers, stutters, & loosing track of the conversation due to the length of time it takes to speak.

The question of the quality of life here is a no-brainer, yet I would cringe at having to make a decision concerning the "plug", even for my atheist father. Before I ever came to my current beliefs ( as a Christian ), I found the idea of suicide confusing. In the past, I would always argue on the side of hope, for some solution, a new technology (I'm an incurable optimist & proud of it in most cases), but in the face of my dad's realities, I really don't see that happening. As for any extreme pain I don't know if he's having any--except emotional pain due to the frustration he must feel coping w/ & being hindered by his body's deterioration. His "Do Not Resuscitate" request just doesn't seem adequate & doesn't preclude treatment for pneumonia,for instance. In the event his condition prevents him from participating in his own life's decisions, my stepmother & I have power of attorney. I don't know if I'll be able to make a choice for him.

I do not want to make decisions like this!!!!!!
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Posted 4/30/10 , edited 4/30/10
I think euthanasia should be obviously allowed in certain cases, like you said, if someone has a painful illness that will kill him/her anyway. But s lot of the time people want to commit suicide for irrational reasons, or they have a mental disorder. So we shouldn't let any person kill themselves because of a quick decision.

If someone really wants to kill themselves, and they're not being irrational and don't have any mental disorders, they should be allowed to do it only after rethinking things for a certain amount of time. I don't find anything immoral about committing suicide, for non-medical related reasons it does seem like people simply finding an easy (pathetic, even) way out of their problems, but cowardice isn't an issue. So if someone rationally decides they want to die and have lots of time to think it over, euthanasia should be allowed, I see no real negative effects to that.
Posted 4/30/10

DomFortress wrote:

I can understand the nature of us feeling pain, when our ability to feeling is an universal vehicle that can go beyond our culture, civilization, or any other product of formality. Furthermore, when this ability is combined with our ability to imagine, we can form a cognitive simulation of other individual's state of mind, without us experiencing the exact same painful situation.

And since you invoked an individuals' right to die in order to end the pain, I will take upon myself to defend an individuals' dignity to survive in order to fight while endure the pain. Furthermore, when growing up is naturally painful due to the constant readjustment in an ever changing environment. I for one sees both pain and empowerment are inseparable if not essential for our individuals' survival, hence the saying goes "no pain, no gain".

Therefore while the nature of the beached whales is still an unknown mystery, I will not grant individuals their right to die other than for themselves to fight for their own survival. So they'll live and fight for another day as long as I concern.


It will always be the choice of the individual. My stance on a person's (or any creature's) decision to die all comes down to their own judgment, mentally ill or not. However, if I was but a stump of a man, without any ability to support my own needs via acting independently, I would opt for a quick end, given that I could still communicate my intentions to others. My greatest fear would be anyone I knew deciding to keep me alive in a state of torment out of their own selfishness. Since my own pain would be so intolerable, the pain of those I know losing me would be considerably less, since they ultimately can have the will to move on without me. No kudos or any praise anyone could or would give me for enduring suffering matters when there is nothing their support can do to make my consciousness worthwhile, since I have few of the abilities they do while I am almost completely unable to act on my own. An infant can do more than a person in a near vegetative state can, I guarantee it. My mouth is a poor tool for doing anything constructive or adventurous when everything coming out of it in a state of perpetual agony makes little sense at all, other than the desire to cease living. That's just little old me.

Knowing when to give up when there is no hope is a virtue just as much as never giving up when there is hope. So for the sake of every person feeling that life is to be lived until the last shred of rubber from the tires is ran off the wheels, go forth and suffer with dignity, or have your dignity in the peace of death.
Posted 4/30/10

Yei wrote:

I think euthanasia should be obviously allowed in certain cases, like you said, if someone has a painful illness that will kill him/her anyway. But s lot of the time people want to commit suicide for irrational reasons, or they have a mental disorder. So we shouldn't let any person kill themselves because of a quick decision.

If someone really wants to kill themselves, and they're not being irrational and don't have any mental disorders, they should be allowed to do it only after rethinking things for a certain amount of time. I don't find anything immoral about committing suicide, for non-medical related reasons it does seem like people simply finding an easy (pathetic, even) way out of their problems, but cowardice isn't an issue. So if someone rationally decides they want to die and have lots of time to think it over, euthanasia should be allowed, I see no real negative effects to that.


My thought was to put myself in the shoes of a person who is suffering to the extent of wanting to expire. Imagine it, though it is unpleasant, how that would be. The greatest pain that can ever be felt. The most excruciating of unpleasant sensations wracking you all at once. Maybe you lost everything. You're terminally ill with a cancer eating every part of your body. You have lost numerous basic functions say from the horrors of Lou Gehrig's disease. You have gone blind, deaf, and are paralyzed from neck down, but you can at least tell someone "please, grant me the gift of death." Maybe you had a very happy family, but parted with them under the worst of circumstances, then ended up without the ability to live at least for yourself. The most difficult and possible part of all that would certainly be having absolutely no support from anyone. No compassion, not even the tinniest shred of pity. You're left all alone and can't move beyond the barrier that has become your crushing reality. We can say that we'd have the strength to fight on, but there are things which can take your strength away. It could end up being the worst case scenario where you were a soldier injured by a landmine and ended up completely disabled, without the ability to communicate, since a piece of shrapnel took out your speech center among all the other things which allow you to communicate, or even experience some kind of pleasant stimulus. The isolation inside your own mind would drive you to a level of insanity that you and only you could know. I shudder at the thought.
Posted 4/30/10 , edited 4/30/10

farmbird wrote:

Ahhh! This subject is maddeningly frustrating for me.

My 79 yr. old dad is declining into his past within his mind ( not Alzheimer's, but a symptom of age & senility ). His body declines as well-- his every action & movement is in slow motion-- as if he's moving in water. This slowed muscle movement affects his whole body, most critically the throat muscles involved w/ swallowing. He refuses a feeding tube, & in order to feed himself, all his food must be the thickness of pudding to allow the swallow reflex to kick in before he aspirates it, which would likely result in aspirated pneumonia. The same slow muscle movement complicates eating by taking an hour or more to finish. Speech has all but disappeared into whispers, stutters, & loosing track of the conversation due to the length of time it takes to speak.

The question of the quality of life here is a no-brainer, yet I would cringe at having to make a decision concerning the "plug", even for my atheist father. Before I ever came to my current beliefs ( as a Christian ), I found the idea of suicide confusing. In the past, I would always argue on the side of hope, for some solution, a new technology (I'm an incurable optimist & proud of it in most cases), but in the face of my dad's realities, I really don't see that happening. As for any extreme pain I don't know if he's having any--except emotional pain due to the frustration he must feel coping w/ & being hindered by his body's deterioration. His "Do Not Resuscitate" request just doesn't seem adequate & doesn't preclude treatment for pneumonia,for instance. In the event his condition prevents him from participating in his own life's decisions, my stepmother & I have power of attorney. I don't know if I'll be able to make a choice for him.

I do not want to make decisions like this!!!!!!


I'd hate to have to make such a decision. No joy, no hope, no more of anything good.

You ask yourself; Is this all there is for me?

The gun goes off, the poison eats you alive, the noose snaps your neck, or whatever it might be. We don't want this. Chances are, it won't go down this way. No use worrying. If the situation arose, be sure to make the best decision... if you can.
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Posted 4/30/10
Hell I like to go top of the tallest building here when i decided to go and using collard stain and jump. I always Like to make a big splash. then again when we have people that say the are going to jump off a bridge heck I help them over as long as traffic stopped. I struggled with this problem most my life. I done time in the spin been. I hate seeing one person saying that there going two kill their self and have other patients wordy about them. One time I got so sick of it I went back to my room grab a box straight razor and told where she could cut and nobly could save her. Then I chewed out the other two telling them that they were there for there self. At first people were shocked the all the people watching clapped. That car in my photos was the first of three tries. I went into a mountain side doing 120 MPH. I have flipped a car on the highway doing 80 4 banger rolled it bounced off one concert barriers flipped On the way back across I saw all these car's coming laid back down down and said screw it. I do not leave some pathetic note like I give a dam. If you want to off your self go for it most people will not care if any do. Living with mental pain all my life stinks. brain damage people criticizing my spelling parts of my brain have to compensate. Then again I can put together a rolling mill for steel paper and so forth. I watch anemia to keep my mind off other thing and I isolate myself people contact has aways been painful like going in and out of shock that play hell with memory.Almost 48 and the pain is finally manageable. If your a youngster that never had a positive feelings in life or any self worth. Be careful they can push you over the edge, it allot of this antidepressant can back fire big time. I am far from being a bright but I love to wipe the chess board from self proclaimed MENSA members. There so stuck on them salve I let them beat them selves. If the person in a great deal of pain like incurable what ever, and the want to be put down it is there choose. I have watched to many slow painful death. And Morphine dose not even help. You can play word kibble all night long but being there is a whole diffrant story.
Posted 5/2/10 , edited 5/2/10

Yei wrote:

I think euthanasia should be obviously allowed in certain cases, like you said, if someone has a painful illness that will kill him/her anyway. But s lot of the time people want to commit suicide for irrational reasons, or they have a mental disorder. So we shouldn't let any person kill themselves because of a quick decision.

If someone really wants to kill themselves, and they're not being irrational and don't have any mental disorders, they should be allowed to do it only after rethinking things for a certain amount of time. I don't find anything immoral about committing suicide, for non-medical related reasons it does seem like people simply finding an easy (pathetic, even) way out of their problems, but cowardice isn't an issue. So if someone rationally decides they want to die and have lots of time to think it over, euthanasia should be allowed, I see no real negative effects to that.
There were cases of "pseudocide" or even planned suicide in order to scam for life insurance money. So I think cowardice just became an issue for seemingly selfish and selfless financial problem solving.


farmbird wrote:

Ahhh! This subject is maddeningly frustrating for me.

My 79 yr. old dad is declining into his past within his mind ( not Alzheimer's, but a symptom of age & senility ). His body declines as well-- his every action & movement is in slow motion-- as if he's moving in water. This slowed muscle movement affects his whole body, most critically the throat muscles involved w/ swallowing. He refuses a feeding tube, & in order to feed himself, all his food must be the thickness of pudding to allow the swallow reflex to kick in before he aspirates it, which would likely result in aspirated pneumonia. The same slow muscle movement complicates eating by taking an hour or more to finish. Speech has all but disappeared into whispers, stutters, & loosing track of the conversation due to the length of time it takes to speak.

The question of the quality of life here is a no-brainer, yet I would cringe at having to make a decision concerning the "plug", even for my atheist father. Before I ever came to my current beliefs ( as a Christian ), I found the idea of suicide confusing. In the past, I would always argue on the side of hope, for some solution, a new technology (I'm an incurable optimist & proud of it in most cases), but in the face of my dad's realities, I really don't see that happening. As for any extreme pain I don't know if he's having any--except emotional pain due to the frustration he must feel coping w/ & being hindered by his body's deterioration. His "Do Not Resuscitate" request just doesn't seem adequate & doesn't preclude treatment for pneumonia,for instance. In the event his condition prevents him from participating in his own life's decisions, my stepmother & I have power of attorney. I don't know if I'll be able to make a choice for him.

I do not want to make decisions like this!!!!!!
I have a suggestion for improving partial communication gap; complete the transfer of thoughts with mental concepts in written language. Although this won't increase the speed of information transfer, however with written language comes the benefit of a constant physical record of one's own process of mental concepts forming a thought. So think of it as an extended read-only-memory for a lack of random-access-memory, due to slower processing speed causing a delay in structuring a thought.

This is the best I can come up with to improve the completion of communicating ideas under the circumstances, I'm sorry that's the extend of my ability.
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Hey, is see your play devils advocate again. Just see enough people die of terminal cancer when you walk in the house they live in reeks of smell of cancer eating flesh. And drug out will stop the pain, There all ready dead in most ways, just coping with pain if that. Now that's cold blood let them chose. If there an all powerful god there should be compassion as well with thoughtfulness, if not it can kiss my BLANK.
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Posted 5/2/10
Planned suicide to get insurance money now that's a good one. A person that has young kids, spouse. That person knows that there going to lose everything. Say the family farm and there third generation farm's tax bill is from the death tax is over 50%. The IRS with gun by there side will take the farm and put them out on the street. Not uncommon here in the states it called the death tax which demwitocrats love more money to buy votes. It sad if the person pull it off to save the family farm. There plenty of small companies that get caught up in this even though they pay taxes each year. But scenes every body hate the big evil insurance corporation what the problem. The fake suicide they get caught or will die by going over seas after the money runs out.
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Posted 5/2/10 , edited 5/2/10

tarakelly wrote:

Planned suicide to get insurance money now that's a good one. A person that has young kids, spouse. That person knows that there going to lose everything. Say the family farm and there third generation farm's tax bill is from the death tax is over 50%. The IRS with gun by there side will take the farm and put them out on the street. Not uncommon here in the states it called the death tax which demwitocrats love more money to buy votes. It sad if the person pull it off to save the family farm. There plenty of small companies that get caught up in this even though they pay taxes each year. But scenes every body hate the big evil insurance corporation what the problem. The fake suicide they get caught or will die by going over seas after the money runs out.


Death tax? Are we talking about inheritance tax or estate tax? I am not too clear about this but doesn't this only cover 2% of the population, the richest ones, the last Bush tax cuts for the rich with gradual decrease in tax rate now allow around 1% to pay such taxes. i think. Its different for different states, which state are we talking about? Any economist can explain more on this. Although i am not sure how this relate to the current topic.
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