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Racism, White Supremacy, Stereotypes & Hollywood
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Posted 7/19/10
So do you deny that there's racism against non-japanese in Japan?
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32 / M / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 7/19/10 , edited 7/19/10
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100603072751AANaAXf

Look, it depends on who you meet and your attitudes and how well you adopt to Japanese culture.
I've said it before, I know African Americans in Japan, they do well and one is married to a Japanese lady, it's not about skin color but he speaks and respects Japanese and Japanese culture. They all speak Japanese, and have adapted to Japanese living. I've been in Japan too long to see two groups of foreigners who come. Some who learn the language and respect Japanese culture, and the other group who come think it's party time, don't learn the language because they hang with their english friends all the time. You pick which one you want to be with.

And that applies to EVERYONE, not if you are just black, white, asian, blue or green. Go to Japan, learn the language, respect the culture and you'll get some respect back in return. That's pretty universal don't you think.

Just like in America you got idiots some places, but they aren't everywhere. Most people, especially in the city won't give a care, and are more indifferent as most city people are.


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Posted 7/19/10 , edited 7/19/10
So there's no racism in Japan?
Is that what you're saying? becuase your last post sounded more like the apologists who post to this thread rather than your own posts. Can you hold that light you've been shining on this thread up to the mirror? Or not?
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32 / M / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 7/19/10
I never said there is no racism in japan. and why are people that always say Japan is racist are mostly whites?
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Posted 7/19/10

shinto-male wrote:

An example of covert Anti-Japanese racism making up stereotypes and using racial slurs similar to the n world towards people who dare to watch movies, cartoons and listen to Music from Japan(and sometimes from the rest of Asia)


negative1111's and company's covert anti-Japanese racism on Display

http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-643634/why-do-everyone-love-japan-and-japanese-people/?pg=0







another thread with covert anti-Japanese racism
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-648372/otaku-arent-japanese/
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Posted 7/19/10 , edited 7/19/10

shinto-male wrote:


another thread with covert anti-Japanese racism
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-648372/otaku-arent-japanese/


BULL.

I'll cross post from that thread since you bring it up. The emboldening is new.

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Who brought up the term 'Weabo'? It wasn't Aztechnology.

Regardless. I can't argue for or against the actions of strangers who I don't know at all towards strangers I've 'met' on an internet forum.

what I can say is this:

I'm into Japan for three things:

(1) I like their cartoons. they can cover such a wider spectrum of themes and (when I first started watching) had novel plot points and archetypes.

(2) Pocky.

(3) Occasionally stretching my brain by asking 'how many anime characters can dance on the head of a pin' or some other ultimately irrelevant question. Still, I find it amusing to speculate on what makes those markedly different archetypes and plot points happen. What cultural underpinings lie behind the more common themes and tropes I see.
----

I've learned a few things over time. Enough to be moderately of assistance and enlightment to my sister on her business trip to Japan.

----

I think there are people who take a love of a strange culture and who adopt superficial behaviours from such cultures. Any such who believe they've become the culture they mimic are fooling themselves.

The above applies to Beret wearing, wine sipping non-francophones who great each other with badly pronounced 'Bonjour'. Tea sipping Mock Englishmen, Fake italians... and even non-american wanna be 'gangstas', or 'John Waynes'. Since they are fooling themselves it's hard not to think a little less of them but the 'wannabe' fashion is hardly limited to Japanaphiles and Europhiles. There are people who try to live every day in the star wars, Star trek, and other non-real universes. or as non-real beings. (look for example at the practices attributed to so called furries)

What I think is absolutely moronic is to believe for instant that finding anime inspired japanophiles amusing or contemptable is some sort of strange second hand discrimination against the japanese people themselves. sorry that's just beyond conspiracy theory stupid.






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Posted 7/19/10 , edited 7/19/10

shinto-male wrote:

I never said there is no racism in japan. and why are people that always say Japan is racist are mostly whites?


all I'm saying is that your post defending Japan sounds more like the posts you claim are 'denial' when speaking of North American culture. That smacks to me of hypocrisy.

And why would you bring the latter point up? Are you saying I'm white because I've implied there is racism in Japan? Does my being allegedly 'white' automatically mean the charge of racism is invalid? Let me be sure I'm on the same page here. You're saying so-called 'whites', by definition, cannot legitimately recognise racism practiced by others?


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32 / M / Toronto, Canada
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Posted 7/19/10
what hypocrisy? I use facts when i am talking about racism in North America. and this thread is not about racism in Japan. claims about racism in Japan are often exaggerated

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/living-japan/32583-racism-japan-how-bad.html

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Posted 7/19/10
There still a lot of resentment towards the Japanese from WW2, so from Asia I believe there probably is an anti-Japanese sentiment. The Japanese did a lot of awful things to many of the people. If you were conquer by them you less than human to them and were treated that way. If we stayed in Vietnam and splitting in two or just won the dame war 2.2 million people would still be alive. Liberalism at its finest we pulled out millions died, so who gives a dam? Here in America there a lot independent films made here that have Asian actors and black actors. Clint Eastwood last film was Grand Torino the hill people from apparently from wide spread area that over lapped boarders. Morgan freeman star’s or costars in films. All cutler have some bigotry in them is right probably not.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- America did help rebuild japan and I am not sure about many of the counties after WW 2 but China did go communist so they would not want are help. Another word what’s the point. The Miracle at Stains Ann directed By Spike Lee I did not like his stereotyping of the black solider much personal I thought it was degrading. I treat people with courtesy unless they act like a butt hole but that really has nothing to do with film made overseas. Here at home subtitles do not bother me. To go pay to see a sub tilted movie no way. In the end most people do not care as long as they get what they want. I find Korean films somewhat boring the same story line with some minor twisted in them may I should say soap operas. I try a few more hope they get better. Each countries going to show themselves in a positive light mostly. What happen to black Americans was wrong and we all paid for it. Some still carry a victim mentality but that generally back fires in the end. If a person speaks in slang term I cannot make heads or tails out of I will polite leave the conversation. Is there byssus in movie of course there is it aimed at for a selected audience? You mean even Canada has byssus in there film’s was well
Posted 7/19/10

shinto-male wrote:

typical denial of racism reply



Whilst we go on about criticizing "White" Hollywood, may I suggest a little tidbit to add to the conversation?

Look at Indian or Japanese or any other form of film. White actors are seldom if EVER seen in "bollywood" or Asian films. Now despite being "white", I do watch asian films. Being fluent in Cantonese and Mandarin opened up a whole new world of cinema for me to enjoy. Japanese I just watch because they often have highly entertaining films. As for Indian films? My neighbourhood and friends are mainly Punjabi. It's only natural that I have seen some. Infact, Taare Zameen Par is one of the few films I consider actively good (especially if you are interested in special needs/psychology). So in a sense, I have seen quite a great deal of cinema outside of Hollywood. And while I watched these films, it is apparent that white actors are often not in them at all or in rather useless/small roles. Does this make them racist?]
Only as racist as Hollywood. The way I see it, most people look at this wrong. Asian films are marketed at who? Asians. Therefore whites or blacks are seldom used as they are not the target consumer. Same thing goes for "white" Hollywood. Except the consumer this time is 80% white. Logically, they are going to aim their market at the "white" people. It's not about racism or racist choice of roles such as excluding or stereotyping cultures and people. It's about money and pleasing the statistical majority.





Asian films don't create stereotypes of white and non-asian people

Asian films don't enagage in racebending (which hollywood love to do with yellowfacings) using native asians to play whites and other non-asians can you find an asian movie where asian actors employed in racebending movies? why are you defending hollywood racism

Asians don't use the racist excuse you are using to market films. many Asian films which are marketed to overseas and non-asians living abroad have subtitles and yes more asian movies and dramas are being marketed to overseas audiences on Channels like TV Japan and KBS world which are available on north american cable with a digital cable box.

quit defending and enjoying racism using the old marketing to whites nonsense

and speaking of marketing Hollywood assumed that white audiences cannot handle non-whites in leading roles which is a RACIST assumption. w a current example is the new Genghis Khan movie where a white actor is playing Genghis Khan a mongolian/east asian. why can't hollywooduse an East Asian american actor to play Khan? hollywood want to live in Asia and Asian culture settings where Asians are not to be seen and you defending this racist madness?







You really have no idea about what you are talking and/or you did not take the time to read my post. If you didn't pay any attention I stated that the prime influence in actor choice in "White" Hollywood, was based statistically on making money. I never once said that there is NO RACISM IN CINEMA OMG. I simply stated that the PRIME MOTIVE for actor choice is based on who you are marketing to. Which by all logic IS TRUE.

Asian films don't create stereotypes? Maybe that is because foreigners/non-asians aren't in them. Almost complete exclusion. And don't you dare try to tell me there aren't whites or non-Asians in Japan/China etc...

I'm not defending or enjoying racism, I'm simply stating that there are other factors involved.

"Asians don't use the racist excuse you are using to market films. many Asian films which are marketed to overseas and non-asians living abroad have subtitles and yes more asian movies and dramas are being marketed to overseas audiences on Channels like TV Japan and KBS world which are available on north american cable with a digital cable box."

While that may be true, the White population isn't all about watching asians movies (that and if you haven't noticed there are ASIANS overseas....so some of that marketing is going to them. Who do you think is the majority in watching anime? White kids?). When was the last time you saw a stereotypical white guy watching a Korean drama? You don't. It's just not a common happening in our culture.

Like I said dozens of times, I am NOT defending racism. And I am not enjoying it. What I am saying is that money is more of a motivator then racism in most cases. And that should be paid attention to rather then haphazardly slinging racism accusations around.
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Posted 7/19/10 , edited 7/19/10

You really have no idea about what you are talking and/or you did not take the time to read my post. If you didn't pay any attention I stated that the prime influence in actor choice in "White" Hollywood, was based statistically on making money. I never once said that there is NO RACISM IN CINEMA OMG. I simply stated that the PRIME MOTIVE for actor choice is based on who you are marketing to. Which by all logic IS TRUE.


there you go again with the marketing excuse while failing to see that Hollywood use the racist excuse claiming their audience cannot handle minorities in lead roles





Asian films don't create stereotypes? Maybe that is because foreigners/non-asians aren't in them. Almost complete exclusion. And don't you dare try to tell me there aren't whites or non-Asians in Japan/China etc...

I'm not defending or enjoying racism, I'm simply stating that there are other factors involved.


What exclusion? I have seen white and foreign actors in a few HK/Chinese movies and Japanese Dramas and in Japan Foreigners like black american singer Jero, 2 canadians in the band monkey majik, crystal kay and others who have one foreign parent and one japanese parent etc are doing will in the entertainment business.



"Asians don't use the racist excuse you are using to market films. many Asian films which are marketed to overseas and non-asians living abroad have subtitles and yes more asian movies and dramas are being marketed to overseas audiences on Channels like TV Japan and KBS world which are available on north american cable with a digital cable box."

While that may be true, the White population isn't all about watching asians movies (that and if you haven't noticed there are ASIANS overseas....so some of that marketing is going to them. Who do you think is the majority in watching anime? White kids?). When was the last time you saw a stereotypical white guy watching a Korean drama? You don't. It's just not a common happening in our culture.


north american culture generally frown on anything that is made outside of north america



Like I said dozens of times, I am NOT defending racism. And I am not enjoying it. What I am saying is that money is more of a motivator then racism in most cases. And that should be paid attention to rather then haphazardly slinging racism accusations around.



casting white actors to play asians and minorities is racism

casting minorities to play dehumanizing and stereotyping roles is racism

and the latest case of yellowface

http://www.cinematical.com/2010/04/23/is-he-kidding-mickey-rourke-as-genghis-khan/

what message does this send to Asian Americans and asian american children?

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Posted 7/19/10 , edited 7/19/10

shinto-male wrote:

what hypocrisy? I use facts when i am talking about racism in North America. and this thread is not about racism in Japan. claims about racism in Japan are often exaggerated

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/living-japan/32583-racism-japan-how-bad.html



And every time someone says YOUR claims about racism in north america are exagerated you trot out the 'denial' argument. but when someone suggests that a group for which you have affinity might be racist, you deny it in strong terms not unlike those used by those you dismiss.

Nor do I consider the attribute of having been posted to a magazine a fact. It's an opinion and some professional writers well worded one, not your own.

(edit:)

OH! and answer my question. what relevance does my supposed 'white'-ness have to do with my suggestion that the house you're flinging bricks from might be made of glass? Please, answer. I'm really curious.
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Posted 7/19/10


And every time someone says YOUR claims about racism in north america are exagerated you trot out the 'denial' argument. but when someone suggests that a group for which you have affinity might be racist, you deny it in strong terms not unlike those used by those you dismiss.


because they are DENYING racism and always use to the business and marketing excuse for hollywood to marginalize minorities and i don't have any affinity with a group and speaking out against racism is not racism this is a tactic used by deniers to call people racist when they denouce racism from hollywood


OH! and answer my question. what relevance does my supposed 'white'-ness have to do with my suggestion that the house you're flinging bricks from might be made of glass? Please, answer. I'm really curious.


there is something call white denial where whites deny racism and make excuses
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Posted 7/19/10

shinto-male wrote:



And every time someone says YOUR claims about racism in north america are exagerated you trot out the 'denial' argument. but when someone suggests that a group for which you have affinity might be racist, you deny it in strong terms not unlike those used by those you dismiss.


because they are DENYING racism and always use to the business and marketing excuse for hollywood to marginalize minorities and i don't have any affinity with a group and speaking out against racism is not racism this is a tactic used by deniers to call people racist when they denouce racism from hollywood


OH! and answer my question. what relevance does my supposed 'white'-ness have to do with my suggestion that the house you're flinging bricks from might be made of glass? Please, answer. I'm really curious.


there is something call white denial where whites deny racism and make excuses



papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Are you saying I'm white because I've implied there is racism in Japan? Does my being allegedly 'white' automatically mean the charge of racism is invalid? Let me be sure I'm on the same page here. You're saying so-called 'whites', by definition, cannot legitimately recognise racism practiced by others?




I repeat the above because I'm not sure 'white denial' REALLY answers my questions. please.... amplify and clarify white denial for me.


As for the rest of your argument let get this straight. See if I've parsed this correctly:

1) Every time you accuse hollywood or someone's thread on this forum of racism it's fact.
2) Every time the attempt to argue that your charges are exaggerated it's 'white denial'
3) However it's clear from other threads you've posted on that you think claims that the Japanese are racist are exagerrated in fact you get quite irate and counter attack.
4) Emboldened above (mine) -- yet this is exactly what you did when you accused me of 'white denial' for mentioning Japan.

I think your claims ARE exagerrated in some cases, I think your choice of battles trivialises the real cases of racism that you should be combating if you're serious. And I believe that you have some affinity for Japan, (I won't speculate what) and your defence of it when someone on another thread mentions racism in Japan makes you a hypocrite.

I'd like you to convince me otherwise. becuase sometimes you have worthy things to say and I think upon what you say. but some of your statements and efforts undermine your own position.





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