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The Wise Wizard
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Posted 5/22/10

Baka_Gaijin wrote:
Result: the world dies. We don't need anyone so hateful of his own country as you. I bet you posted all that impressively insightful writing from a very concealed location. As for me caring whether or not you are a WWII buff, I don't. What else are you? Tell me, Mr. Knowitall. Are you a weapon buff. Can you tell me the average velocity of the .30-06 round fired from an M1 Garand? Can you tell me about the history of the .50 BMG without looking it up on some internet site? Can you tell me, from the corners of your increasingly senile mind, just how much all your trivial knowledge matters, other than to defeat me in debate, and whoever else, in this sickly forum?

Take pride in your affluence, my elder and better. No one is as learned and accomplished as you, The Ancient One. Poring yourself over volumes of WWII knowledge tells me a lot about you. You live in the past. You're just a fragment from a different time.

But, what do I know? I am just a frog pretending to have a human mind.

Who pissed in your corn flakes?



Seriously, exactly what did my post contain that would result in such vitriol? I didn't lob any personal insults (i.e., "Mr. Knowitall", "increasingly senile mind").

You apparently interpreted "I should warn you that I am a WWII history buff. " not as the good nature warning that you might be unleashing a monster that would happily spew forth many long conversations related to the subject, but rather as some haughty proclamation of superior knowledge.

As to "We don't need anyone so hateful of his own country as you.", either you are under a seriously mistaken impression, or you believe being anything less than a U.S. cheerleader that thinks it never does any wrong and is always the world's savior is being "hateful". I certainly don't subscribe to Yei's view of the U.S. as "the most destructive force in human history", but I am not blind to its transgressions, either.

If you really think I hate my country, then why would I have it listed in my profile, visible at the left of every message I post?

Perhaps you think my wish that I could make the U.S. disappear in 1900 indicates hate. "Disappear" to me does not indicate malevolence. I did not want to distract from the scenario with technical details, but it could mean it being relocated to another earth-like planet or another dimension. The gist was that it would no longer be here. The really important detail with my desired scenario was leaving the other people of Earth with both the memories of the world they experienced and the world as we known it now. While I expect some would say "Yes, life is better", I expect there would be many more that hate or dislike the U.S. that would be wishing it hadn't disappeared.

The Wise Wizard
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Posted 5/22/10

tarakelly wrote:

Germany and Japan both were trying to create a A bomb which one would have used it first if the world did not have Americas in the way?


Germany's effort to develop an atomic bomb was surprisingly far behind what the U.S. apparently expected, but certainly had progressed further than that of Japan. I expect that Germany likely would not have developed a nuclear weapon for at least another 10 years or perhaps far longer, unless there was a change in leadership.

That said, Germany likely would have developed an atomic weapon before Japan, and had a platform ready to deploy it.

As for the Soviet Union, I have to wonder how much longer it would have taken them to develop it if they didn't have the Americans to steal most of the information from.

Posted 5/22/10

TheAncientOne wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:
Result: the world dies. We don't need anyone so hateful of his own country as you. I bet you posted all that impressively insightful writing from a very concealed location. As for me caring whether or not you are a WWII buff, I don't. What else are you? Tell me, Mr. Knowitall. Are you a weapon buff. Can you tell me the average velocity of the .30-06 round fired from an M1 Garand? Can you tell me about the history of the .50 BMG without looking it up on some internet site? Can you tell me, from the corners of your increasingly senile mind, just how much all your trivial knowledge matters, other than to defeat me in debate, and whoever else, in this sickly forum?

Take pride in your affluence, my elder and better. No one is as learned and accomplished as you, The Ancient One. Poring yourself over volumes of WWII knowledge tells me a lot about you. You live in the past. You're just a fragment from a different time.

But, what do I know? I am just a frog pretending to have a human mind.

Who pissed in your corn flakes?



Seriously, exactly what did my post contain that would result in such vitriol? I didn't lob any personal insults (i.e., "Mr. Knowitall", "increasingly senile mind").

You apparently interpreted "I should warn you that I am a WWII history buff. " not as the good nature warning that you might be unleashing a monster that would happily spew forth many long conversations related to the subject, but rather as some haughty proclamation of superior knowledge.

As to "We don't need anyone so hateful of his own country as you.", either you are under a seriously mistaken impression, or you believe being anything less than a U.S. cheerleader that thinks it never does any wrong and is always the world's savior is being "hateful". I certainly don't subscribe to Yei's view of the U.S. as "the most destructive force in human history", but I am not blind to its transgressions, either.

If you really think I hate my country, then why would I have it listed in my profile, visible at the left of every message I post?

Perhaps you think my wish that I could make the U.S. disappear in 1900 indicates hate. "Disappear" to me does not indicate malevolence. I did not want to distract from the scenario with technical details, but it could mean it being relocated to another earth-like planet or another dimension. The gist was that it would no longer be here. The really important detail with my desired scenario was leaving the other people of Earth with both the memories of the world they experienced and the world as we known it now. While I expect some would say "Yes, life is better", I expect there would be many more that hate or dislike the U.S. that would be wishing it hadn't disappeared.



So then, what is your intent? Pro-European? Would you work for the French or the Germans? Perhaps the Russians?

I'd say not to have even the slightest indication of desire to see your own nation disappear, though in the U.S. you have freedom of speech. Suppose that with this disappearance of the U.S. and the continuation of WWI, the Great War continued long after when it really ended and even overlapped the time when the Vietnam War was supposed to happen. Imagine if the world had a foe such as a combination of the Russians and Mongolians. The Russo-Mongolians! Then the Axis Powers would consist of them, the Germans, the Kazakhs, the Austro-Hungarians, the Ottomans, the Bulgarian-Lithuanian-Finnish-Serbian-Swedish-Norwegian Death Alliance, and the Borneo-New Guinean Cannibal Empire. Shit would hit the fan and this whole disillusioned planet would be under the combat boot of the realest motherfucking cocksuckers this side of the Asylum - the new name for WWI. The Axis would crossbreed and dominate everything, that is, unless those wonderful pricks called the United States stepped in and made it all right again.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 5/22/10

Baka_Gaijin wrote:

So then, what is your intent? Pro-European? Would you work for the French or the Germans? Perhaps the Russians?

As I said before, I wouldn't be here.

My intent would be to show those that hate the U.S., and especially those that think it is the great evil in the world, just how much worse off many of them might be without it.

I say "might" as I am not omniscient, and further down the timeline from a substantial change, the less likely it is even the best informed speculation is to be correct. That is why is wish I had the power to make it reality. Reality simply is. It cannot be argued with (at least by the sane).
Posted 5/22/10

TheAncientOne wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:

So then, what is your intent? Pro-European? Would you work for the French or the Germans? Perhaps the Russians?

As I said before, I wouldn't be here.

My intent would be to show those that hate the U.S., and especially those that think it is the great evil in the world, just how much worse off many of them might be without it.

I say "might" as I am not omniscient, and further down the timeline from a substantial change, the less likely it is even the best informed speculation is to be correct. That is why is wish I had the power to make it reality. Reality simply is. It cannot be argued with (at least by the sane).


I see you plight now. To show the world how screwed with the capital F it would be without the Yanks around.

The course of history wold continue in its own way. War would happen, then burn out. The young are sent to their deaths by the old, rinse, and repeat. Energy is stored as potential energy, then released to relieve the pressure. Will to power. So on, so on.
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Posted 5/22/10

drizza wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


drizza wrote:


jandarujora wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

As much as I don't like conspiracies, sometimes you cannot rule out how so-called Zionist Jews are attempting their "New World Order" using America as their tool and stepping stone. Just look at the powers at hand. The current Chairman of the Federal Reserve is a Jew, and the two world's largest media conglomerates (News Corp and Walt Disney Company) both have Jews as their current Chairman/CEOs. Google was financed by a Jew, which bought out YouTube. The Warner Music Group, which censors content on YouTube, is headed by a Jew as its Chairman/CEO, etc.

But yeah, I'm probably just a silly conspiracy theorist. But what better way is there to take over the world than through international banking and media corporations? Iraq and Afghanistan were two of only a handful of countries before 9/11 not under control of the Rothschild Jewish banking empire. Now they've been seized and are currently being installed with pro-Western governments, and I think it's only a matter of time before America eyes its target on Iran and Syria. How funny, all of them are oil-rich nations. I was bored and watched C-SPAN one day last week and the House was pushing for sanctions on Iran. Here we go again! Hopefully I'll grab some popcorn next time if and when this new mini-series debuts. Yeehaw!


Oh my GOD, several people of the Jewish religion are SUCCESSFUL in business! That must mean that they are controlling the world!

Also, did you know that the Jews control Saudi Arabia, where you can be killed for being Jewish? OMG! And what else? Their banks are Swiss, and we know the Swiss are all Rothchild Jews! I suppose that this great Empire of Evil Rothchild Jew-bankers are actually funding the pogroms of the Middle East! And that the whole Iran thing is not about IRAN, a country dedicated to the fall of 'Great Satan America and the Evil West' and 'Imposing God's will on all heathens', having the capability to PRODUCE NUCLEAR WEAPONS when they have a hella lot of oil, but THE EVIL JEWS BANKROLLING THE REST OF THE WORLD TO CREATE A NOVUS ORDO .


Oh my, you're an even sillier conspiracy theorist than I am!


That response orangeflute bought up didnt refute anything but is a typical response to that allegation. Rather then refuting you he tried to make you look like some crazed anti-semite to change the subject. Anyways I agree with your statement as well. Just like all groups of people all around the world they have their good and bad people. By no means just because you see a few rich powerful Jews you then stereotype them all as some kind of religion or race trying to take over the world. To me this shows that they are very smart and successful people. But as stated what you pointed out is the cold hard truth in which I researched myself and was astonished that most if not all media, Federal chairmen, banks are unfortunately Jewish. To bring this into the light you would be called anti-semite so this territory is very hazardous to enter especially if you are a politician. But then again one has to realize the double standards imagine if we substituted them for being Jewish and call them Iranians or Arabs. The media would be all over this. Could you imagine if AIPAC was an Iranian lobby? Federal Reserve Chairmen from start to finish all Iranians lol? The media would have been in a circus right now.


The statement offers nothing except the following statement: 'Well, Jews, as a whole, are pretty rich and influential, they must therefore be controlling the world.' And only follow by an elaborate theory of how Jews control several Middle Eastern Countries, which, in most, Jews are openly prosecuted. Any thinking man would see the idiocy of such statement. In addition, the Iranians are free to lobby as they wish, there is no stopping them, and if they become heavily influantial, that's democracy. Unfortunately, not many people in America are sympathetic to the Iranian cause, at least not enough to have a lobby. And if an Persian American is good enough for the Job of the Federal Reserve Chairman, than, obviously, he would be hired. But, as it stand, most people, Jews and Persian alike, are not qualified for that job.

Furthermore, there is such things are Arab Lobby, but we don't hear about them, so your agrument for a double standard has become moot. In addition, there are many Jewish bankers and business because many of them are raised and educated in preperation for jobs in those feilds, just as are many Asians, &c. It is no more religion than upbringing, and if a Arab culture emphasis pragmaticism much more, as Jewish culture, a resultant of centuries of persecution, than they shall also be in a similar position.


By no means just because you see a few rich powerful Jews you then stereotype them all as some kind of religion or race trying to take over the world.
Learn to read.

I edited my last sentence because I agree this is about America not Zionist influence or lobby's.


You probably have not read my post either, saying that there is no substance therein but typical allegations. He made an absurd claim, that the Jewish bankers are controlling most Middle-Eastern Countries, all known to be Anti-Israeli and whose population are, generally, very conservative and bigoted.
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Posted 5/22/10

TheAncientOne wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:

I wish I had the power to make the United States disappear from the world around the beginning of the 20th century, but leave all those alive now in other countries with the memories of this reality. It would be interesting to check in 10 years later and see how many people thought the world was worse, vs. those that think it was better.


Then who would have defeated Nazi Germany? England? Canada? France? I doubt it. Maybe China, but I think since America was able to do what it did when the world was in need, we can rest assured that it wasn't/isn't a total wash.


With the U.S. completely out of the picture (well before the war), England would have been doing quite well to even survive as a sovereign nation. France was already occupied, and China, despite its population advantage, had more than enough problem trying to stave off Japan.

Arguably, the Soviet Union might have, but I think you see the problem there.

On the one hand, it is almost certain that without the aid offered by the U.S. lend/lease program, the Soviets would have fared substantially worse against Nazi Germany. The Soviet Union is a huge country, however, so the best Germany could likely have obtained would have been a negotiated peace, with Germany retaining possession of most of the western Soviet Union.

Assuming Germany did prevail, unless the remnant of the Soviet Union was enough to provide a common enemy, the would likely eventually come in conflict with the other great power of that world, their former ally, Japan. This would be an even more likely outcome if the Soviet Union prevailed in Europe.

Frankly, the further one gets from the divergence from current history, the more difficult it is to predict what would happen. That is why I wish it could be made to really happen, as there could then be no debate.


FYI, you overlooked that that with the U.S. out of the picture since the beginning of the century, the outcome of the first World War would have been different. It is probable that the Nazi movement may have never occurred, and World War II in Europe would have never happened. It is also probable, however, that all the countries involved would be so weakened by an even longer war, and their remaining populace so sickened by it, that they would be left easy pickings for a Soviet Union that might remain much like the one in our own reality.



I'm sure that the survivors of the Blitz will totally agree with you, seeing as, I don't know, 90% of London was totalled. And it would've been a hundred if not for America's contribution, look up 'Lend and Lease' and 'Cash and Carry'. And how would World War I end without us? With all of Europe completely destroyed, its population dead or dying, in a great economic recession as a result of the war, with no victory on any side. How would Asia fare? Will Japan kill all the Chinese and Koreans or just most. Our finest and most valiant days shall not be insulted by the likes of yourself.
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Posted 5/22/10

Baka_Gaijin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

WW 2 would not have happened if Germany was not set up as a Democracy from the first war and French and other demanding Germany to foot the bill for the war. The US sitting president tried to stop it but lost. The league of nation was a bigger joke than the UN is but not by much. I fairly certain you do not understand how Hitler came to power. Do to comments made early on.


Hitler was elected. Enough said.


Rather, he was appointed mainly because of the Influence of the Nazi Party in the Reichstag, he was not elected.
Posted 5/22/10

orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

WW 2 would not have happened if Germany was not set up as a Democracy from the first war and French and other demanding Germany to foot the bill for the war. The US sitting president tried to stop it but lost. The league of nation was a bigger joke than the UN is but not by much. I fairly certain you do not understand how Hitler came to power. Do to comments made early on.


Hitler was elected. Enough said.


Rather, he was appointed mainly because of the Influence of the Nazi Party in the Reichstag, he was not elected.


So election isn't a free, democratic vote? Yeah, he just took the power.
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Posted 5/22/10

Baka_Gaijin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

WW 2 would not have happened if Germany was not set up as a Democracy from the first war and French and other demanding Germany to foot the bill for the war. The US sitting president tried to stop it but lost. The league of nation was a bigger joke than the UN is but not by much. I fairly certain you do not understand how Hitler came to power. Do to comments made early on.


Hitler was elected. Enough said.


Rather, he was appointed mainly because of the Influence of the Nazi Party in the Reichstag, he was not elected.


So election isn't a free, democratic vote? Yeah, he just took the power.


The Nazi Party did not constitute a majority in Parliament, they were a big party, but not the largest. To make them agreeable with the national government, Hindenburg was force to make him chancellor, despite the fact the Hindenburg and Hitler hated each other.
Posted 5/22/10

orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

WW 2 would not have happened if Germany was not set up as a Democracy from the first war and French and other demanding Germany to foot the bill for the war. The US sitting president tried to stop it but lost. The league of nation was a bigger joke than the UN is but not by much. I fairly certain you do not understand how Hitler came to power. Do to comments made early on.


Hitler was elected. Enough said.


Rather, he was appointed mainly because of the Influence of the Nazi Party in the Reichstag, he was not elected.


So election isn't a free, democratic vote? Yeah, he just took the power.


The Nazi Party did not constitute a majority in Parliament, they were a big party, but not the largest. To make them agreeable with the national government, Hindenburg was force to make him chancellor, despite the fact the Hindenburg and Hitler hated each other.


Hindenburg was a zeppelin. Hitler would have sent his Waffen SS to blitzkrieg the German government, if he somehow had the financial backing to do it without being dictator.
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Posted 5/22/10

Baka_Gaijin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

WW 2 would not have happened if Germany was not set up as a Democracy from the first war and French and other demanding Germany to foot the bill for the war. The US sitting president tried to stop it but lost. The league of nation was a bigger joke than the UN is but not by much. I fairly certain you do not understand how Hitler came to power. Do to comments made early on.


Hitler was elected. Enough said.


Rather, he was appointed mainly because of the Influence of the Nazi Party in the Reichstag, he was not elected.


So election isn't a free, democratic vote? Yeah, he just took the power.


The Nazi Party did not constitute a majority in Parliament, they were a big party, but not the largest. To make them agreeable with the national government, Hindenburg was force to make him chancellor, despite the fact the Hindenburg and Hitler hated each other.


Hindenburg was a zeppelin. Hitler would have sent his Waffen SS to blitzkrieg the German government, if he somehow had the financial backing to do it without being dictator.


Shows your learning in the field of history:

Paul Von Hindenburg,
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWhindenburg.htm

Posted 5/22/10

orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


Baka_Gaijin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

WW 2 would not have happened if Germany was not set up as a Democracy from the first war and French and other demanding Germany to foot the bill for the war. The US sitting president tried to stop it but lost. The league of nation was a bigger joke than the UN is but not by much. I fairly certain you do not understand how Hitler came to power. Do to comments made early on.


Hitler was elected. Enough said.


Rather, he was appointed mainly because of the Influence of the Nazi Party in the Reichstag, he was not elected.


So election isn't a free, democratic vote? Yeah, he just took the power.


The Nazi Party did not constitute a majority in Parliament, they were a big party, but not the largest. To make them agreeable with the national government, Hindenburg was force to make him chancellor, despite the fact the Hindenburg and Hitler hated each other.


Hindenburg was a zeppelin. Hitler would have sent his Waffen SS to blitzkrieg the German government, if he somehow had the financial backing to do it without being dictator.


Shows your learning in the field of history:

Paul Von Hindenburg,
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWhindenburg.htm





I want that dude's haircut! Seriously!
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Posted 5/22/10
Maybe your half way nuts' steeling in war time is called espionage the fact that we put one together tells me, your a communist by nature. If so your views would be somewhat skewed. Fact that Japan had made some major efforts in Korea. the Soviets would turned on use if we did nut drop the bond coulda, woulda, shoulda, was a likely problem as well. If so far a head why did they not do it and please do not tell me they thought it was in inhumane. Soviet slaughtered 40 million people after the war. The Soviets where going to invade Japan and whole sale slaughter would have been the normal operating standard. I do wounder just real how much you really understand back then if you do it is a narrow gap. Franklin Roosevelt was sitting president and get allot of undo credit. His policy kept the depression going far longer then needed. Something this sitting President still dose not understand or do maybe he wants more Federal control. We did not enter WW! WW2 until attacked, first. Being older means living and having more experience as for WISE maybe dull normal
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Posted 5/22/10

tarakelly wrote:

Maybe your half way nuts' steeling in war time is called espionage the fact that we put one together tells me, your a communist by nature. If so your views would be somewhat skewed. Fact that Japan had made some major efforts in Korea. the Soviets would turned on use if we did nut drop the bond coulda, woulda, shoulda, was a likely problem as well. If so far a head why did they not do it and please do not tell me they thought it was in inhumane. Soviet slaughtered 40 million people after the war. The Soviets where going to invade Japan and whole sale slaughter would have been the normal operating standard. I do wounder just real how much you really understand back then if you do it is a narrow gap. Franklin Roosevelt was sitting president and get allot of undo credit. His policy kept the depression going far longer then needed. Something this sitting President still dose not understand or do maybe he wants more Federal control. We did not enter WW! WW2 until attacked, first. Being older means living and having more experience as for WISE maybe dull normal


Au Contraire, FDR's policies help alleviate the people's misery during the depression by creating jobs that they wouldn't otherwise have. This lead to more money in the pockets of the workers, who, having more wealth, spend it on necessities and luxuries alike. Although by no means the cure to the depression, it did stimulate the economy far better than the policies of his predecessor, Hoover. Entering the War, we were brought out of the depression because the policies of giving Government Jobs to the unemployed, thereby increasing their wealth and spending, was exaggerated by the industries dedicated to the war effort. Additionally, the Soviets would not have 'turned on us' because our alliance is based upon one thing, defeating Hitler in the West and Japan in the East. After all that is over, we did not expect to be on ally terms with the Soviets any longer. In fact, even before the War ended, we were already planning on how to fight against the Soviets, as they were doing with us. Additionally, we did not enter World War I or II until attacked first, as you have said, but we did implement a system that funds and helps Blithe Ol' Britain and her Allies, (Such as Cash and Carry and Lend and Lease) and, so, are indirectly fighting against Fascism, as we did in World War I, where America and individuals in America were secretly funding and arming the same. Pearl Harbour is merely an excuse for a nation already sympathetic to the cause of Freedom to fight and liberate the world from the perils of Fascism. But sir, I must congratulate you upon one thing, that you somehow, magically, manage to make a debate about WWII turn into an argument on how crummy and lousy our current president is, and turn that into an argument for a more conservative economic policy in one sentence, despite the fact that it isn't, nor ever was, a point of contention in our little debate over America's worth after the twentieth century.
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