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Anime is going to die - President of Bang Zoom! Entertainment
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17 / M / boys locker room
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Posted 5/24/10
i just saw your avi and thought "LOLOLOL"

damn you anon xD!!!
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F / Wouldn't YOU like...
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Posted 5/24/10
yeah i heard about this.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 5/26/10

superluccix wrote:
Well to be honest....I couldn't care less if dubbed animes went out of business, cuz to me they suck.

So I guess anyone that is blind or substantially visually impaired can just suck it, right?


Why do they suck? Well there are many things. They say the words too slowly...the impact of the words suck.....the voice actors are not even right for the characters...I could go on.

I wager the number of anime you have seen first from beginning to end in dub form before the sub could be counted on one hand with fingers left over. Am I correct?

If you don't think that colors your view of the voices being "correct", you're fooling yourself.



But anyway...I think Japan will forever see anime...and i will forever watch anime on the internet

Yes, the anime industry in Japan won't die, and as fansub groups aren't in it for the profit, they'll continue. Screw anyone else in the world, as long as you're happy, that is what is important.

If you think a diminishing or loss of overseas markets would have no impact on anime in Japan, then be prepared for a surprise when you start seeing more "safe" anime that build on established successes (i.e., more of the same). Anime isn't the only type entertainment where overseas sales can cause what would otherwise be a losing project to break even or at least soften the financial impact.

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Posted 5/26/10
GYAH!! I HATE DUBS EVEN TOUGH IT SOMETIMES NOT THAT BAD!! ME WANT ORIGINAL VOICE ACTOR N ENGLISH SUB!!
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21 / F / Philippines!
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Posted 5/26/10
oh ! that's not true ! anime lives !!
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A small place in...
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Posted 5/26/10

Maou068 wrote:

Heh... I rather buy raw and untranslated DVD box sets from Japan to support the Japanese animators directly rather than supporting those greedy publishers who do nothing more than to butcher the anime that we know and love.


Hear, hear ....
Posted 5/26/10


Do you really think that buying R1 dvd's supports the industry in japan?? I hate to break it to you it doesn't you can see my early post and use those if you want to, but the problem is your paying a company in the states with a inferior product and paying for 2-bit actors that couldn't do anything else with their lives. I am not saying all dubs are bad I grew up on them myself and watch the old ones for nostalgia and some recent ones where okay but I do no like the fact I am paying their salary instead of the artist in japan that drew the series. When funimtion, media blasters, bandai, manga, they only pay so much to obtain that license. The mangka, voice actors/actress and he ceo's get more of cut of what they are payed if not all of it. The artist that only make 10,000 a year to draw what we like to watch don't get shit, if nothing at all. If people really want to support the industry buy import dvd's like i am starting to do so that money will actually help those that do need it. Sorry for the rant.
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Posted 5/26/10
Psh, it's not going to die, nor is the industry in the West going to go away either. The reason these companies died off is thus:

While we pay $10-13 per graphic novel people in Japan pay $2-5

The anime giants of today couldn't keep up with the sad truth that people could copy/rip manga/anime, and then translate it (albeit maybe not the best translation sometimes) within 12 hours of posting. While it took them months if not years to get all their legal shenanigans in order. They are not being beaten by "thieves of anime" they are being beaten by being over-costly and inefficient.

Survival of the Fittest, more companies will fall.
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25 / M / Deptford, NJ
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Posted 5/26/10 , edited 5/26/10


and less and less stuff will be in English, because it’s just not worth the cost of dubbing it

No, no it's not. It's not worth the cost of dubbing since 99% of dubs are horrible and 90% of people who watch anime would rather hear the original audio and read subtitles.

and that's what we get when we "get our fix illegally". We get nice subtitles. As opposed to the ugly yellow subtitles I've seen on most legitimate anime DVDs.
The Wise Wizard
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56 / M / U.S.A. (mid-south)
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Posted 5/26/10

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:
Do you really think that buying R1 dvd's supports the industry in japan?? I hate to break it to you it doesn't you can see my early post and use those if you want to, but the problem is your paying a company in the states with a inferior product and paying for 2-bit actors that couldn't do anything else with their lives. I am not saying all dubs are bad I grew up on them myself and watch the old ones for nostalgia and some recent ones where okay but I do no like the fact I am paying their salary instead of the artist in japan that drew the series. When funimtion, media blasters, bandai, manga, they only pay so much to obtain that license. The mangka, voice actors/actress and he ceo's get more of cut of what they are payed if not all of it. The artist that only make 10,000 a year to draw what we like to watch don't get shit, if nothing at all. If people really want to support the industry buy import dvd's like i am starting to do so that money will actually help those that do need it. Sorry for the rant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the animators are salaried employees, which means they make the same if an anime is a bust or a blockbuster.

As to "..., but the problem is your paying a company in the states with a inferior product and paying for 2-bit actors that couldn't do anything else with their lives.", how can it be inferior when each and every one of those DVDs also includes the original Japanese audio & English subtitles, as well?

As to the quality of the actors, that is your opinion. Are Japanese VA's really the top of the rung in their country? Are they often lead actors in Japanese live action theatrical movies, or do the vast majority of them in fact do the same type work U.S. VA's do?



murderbymodem wrote:



and less and less stuff will be in English, because it’s just not worth the cost of dubbing it

No, no it's not. It's not worth the cost of dubbing since 99% of dubs are horrible and 90% of people who watch anime would rather hear the original audio and read subtitles.

and that's what we get when we "get our fix illegally". We get nice subtitles. As opposed to the ugly yellow subtitles I've seen on most legitimate anime DVDs.

Perhaps your're right that "90% of people who watch anime would rather hear the original audio and read subtitles", but if so, it is quite clear that darn few of that 90% are willing to pay for it. After all, if they were, sub-only DVDs would greatly outsell dub DVDs, and given that dubs are considerably more expensive and time-consuming to make, companies would drop them like a hot potato and go the sub-only route.

But while a sub-only DVD would have to compete with free fansubs that may have been released within a day of the episode, and months before any DVD could hit the market, a dub DVD has no direct online competition until after it released, ripped, and uploaded. After all, while some people purport that fansubs are better than official subs, I doubt anyone would be crazy enough to assert any fandub was better than any official dub. (Let me revise that: Any official dub in the past 20 years, as I can think of old one that could have been outdone by a decent cast from a high school drama club).

Frankly, the assertion that we online really represent the anime market is a bit like asserting people in a tech forum represent the average computer buyer, people in a fantasy football league represent the average ticket buyer or viewer. Fans of anything may be the most loyal consumers, but they rarely make up the bulk of the purchasers of that product.

As to the subtitles, either you don't watch that many different fansubbed series, or you've been darn lucky. I've seen fansubs with (visually) terrible subs (as well as sometimes just plain terrible), sometimes in fonts or colors that make them virtually undecipherable, especially after the video has been overcompressed , recompressed, transcoded, or sometimes all three. On the other hand, I've never had any problem reading the subtitles on a legitimate DVD, whether they were yellow or white. Considering it is higher probable your 20 year younger eyes can see better than mine, I think some other factor is at work if you find fansub subtitles consistently more visually clear.


Posted 5/26/10


I guess that makes me a bit of weaboo, but I just don't like the way most va in America mis-prounce names, uses shitty southern accents for people from southern Japan, like osaka "witch I find to be a little racist." As far as the subs on the dvd's most are okay I will not lie to you there but can't they do something better besides the big yellow text that gets in the way? Fannsubbers are able to pull it off why not some big company like funimaiton?? Funny thing is about salary pay, that would depend on the studio at hand if they had salary pay and I do think they need get payed more as far as I am concerned. Listen the japanese audio sounds better to most just due to the fact that's the original language meant for the series just like watching a cartoon here or watching a film from France i prefer the orginal language for the origin of the media but that is just me.
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Posted 5/26/10

TheAncientOne
As to the subtitles, either you don't watch that many different fansubbed series, or you've been darn lucky. I've seen fansubs with (visually) terrible subs (as well as sometimes just plain terrible), sometimes in fonts or colors that make them virtually undecipherable, especially after the video has been overcompressed , recompressed, transcoded, or sometimes all three. On the other hand, I've never had any problem reading the subtitles on a legitimate DVD, whether they were yellow or white. Considering it is higher probable your 20 year younger eyes can see better than mine, I think some other factor is at work if you find fansub subtitles consistently more visually clear.

I've not been watching anime (on the Internet I mean, I obviously watched DBZ and whatever used to be on Toonami before I started watching subs) that long, 3 years now maybe? So I don't have much experience with older fansubs. I have re-watched older series, such as older Gundam series, but they were all newer re-done fansubs. All of the fansubs I've ever watched have been amazing quality with text I could read no problem.

However, most of the legitimate anime DVDs I've watched (admittedly, not many, just Code Geass, and Kannagi) have these horrible yellow subs.

Granted, it is harder for them to make the subtitles look as amazing as the fansubbers can, because they have to put it out on DVD format. Fansubbers can release in Matroska or whatever format they want, so they can do more and make it look really great. but really if they would just make the subtitles on the DVDs white I'd be a lot happier. That throwup yellow color they use gives me eye cancer.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 5/26/10

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:



I guess that makes me a bit of weaboo, but I just don't like the way most va in America mis-prounce names, uses shitty southern accents for people from southern Japan, like osaka "witch I find to be a little racist." As far as the subs on the dvd's most are okay I will not lie to you there but can't they do something better besides the big yellow text that gets in the way? Fannsubbers are able to pull it off why not some big company like funimaiton?? Funny thing is about salary pay, that would depend on the studio at hand if they had salary pay and I do think they need get payed more as far as I am concerned. Listen the japanese audio sounds better to most just due to the fact that's the original language meant for the series just like watching a cartoon here or watching a film from France i prefer the orginal language for the origin of the media but that is just me.

Regarding the "Osaka accent", my impression is that many people outside of that region have the same opinion of it that many people have of people from the southern U.S. (which happens to be were I live). Therefore, I find the typical use of a southern accent in the English dub to be inoffensive. After all, if I found it offensive, it would be akin to accepting the view of southerners as a bunch of hicks and rednecks.

As to mis-pronunciations, fortunately, I have not come across that often, but when I have, it stuck out like a sore thumb. One of the most recent offenders was the English dub of Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, where Arf went from being called Alf, to Arf, to Aruf. Although I had seen the sub versions of both it and A's first, it was long enough prior that I had no fresh memory of the Japanese voices to bias me against the English voices. Still, I couldn't help but notice that the VA for Fate sounded as if she had her nose pinched together while reading her lines. I was hoping they would work out the licensing to use the original voices for the intelligent devices, but alas, that was not to be. I think these two DVDs got the short shrift budget-wise, and given the short time between announcement of licensing and when they became available, were likely rushed as well. Sad.

Regarding watching material in the native language, I consider animation a bit different, as even the original language is a dub. In fact, if I am not mistaken, due to production demands, I believe the vast majority of anime is animated first, and then the voice work done, which means the lips flaps are approximations. I had even read that Japanese VA's are not as concerned with matching lip flaps as we are in the U.S., but I took that with a grain of salt pending further supporting statements.

I am certain many will see this as heresy, but I would honestly rather watch a fair dub than an excellent sub. My reasons, are of course my own. My reading speed is a fraction of the blazing speed it was 30 years ago, and I am a visually oriented person. As such, I find subs a major distraction. There is also the fact that as I do not understand the language, most of the more subtle emotional undertones in Japanese dialog are lost on me, whereas I can pick them up in English dialog performed by a decent VA. I also don't have the built-in bias toward subs that most younger people have, as I grew up in the era when online video was non-existent, and subs were rare.I think the first sub I saw was around 1998.



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Posted 5/26/10

TheAncientOne wrote:


superluccix wrote:
Well to be honest....I couldn't care less if dubbed animes went out of business, cuz to me they suck.

So I guess anyone that is blind or substantially visually impaired can just suck it, right?


Why do they suck? Well there are many things. They say the words too slowly...the impact of the words suck.....the voice actors are not even right for the characters...I could go on.

I wager the number of anime you have seen first from beginning to end in dub form before the sub could be counted on one hand with fingers left over. Am I correct?

If you don't think that colors your view of the voices being "correct", you're fooling yourself.



But anyway...I think Japan will forever see anime...and i will forever watch anime on the internet

Yes, the anime industry in Japan won't die, and as fansub groups aren't in it for the profit, they'll continue. Screw anyone else in the world, as long as you're happy, that is what is important.

If you think a diminishing or loss of overseas markets would have no impact on anime in Japan, then be prepared for a surprise when you start seeing more "safe" anime that build on established successes (i.e., more of the same). Anime isn't the only type entertainment where overseas sales can cause what would otherwise be a losing project to break even or at least soften the financial impact.



Um first off...I dont think too many people who are blind and are visually impaired watch anime...and remember the key words are "too many people".

Yes I would say I've watched maybe 10 or less animes with shitty dubs. Do I need more than that to realize they suck? No. Its not just me...the majority (Of Crunchyroll at least....who knows what the world thinks....) think this too. Look if I watch 10 animes with dubs...from different genres.....from different companies....and they suck.....do I really need to continue seeing more to figure out it sucks? I think not.

Dont really have a comment on the whole marketing of Japan...since I know nothing of how it works. Maybe it goes to the animators....maybe it doesnt...maybe Im a son of a bitch who wouldnt even help the people who create the anime I watch....maybe Im a great guy who does.......
Well...I will watch anime over the internet all the time...until I become a hardcore Otaku which I dont see me doing.
Posted 5/26/10


to each his own, I will not judge you for that like you in some way I grew up with just tapes and relying on a network to air the series like cn, sci-fi or tech t.v. but sadly that's all in the past now. The only problem with dubs that I do see a major rush in their product like you have stated for one of your favorite series. I know that I am causing some hersay here myself but I actually liked the gurren lagan dub and the lucky star dub, I actually felt passion from the actors which is rare to see in this day and age.
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