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Anime is going to die - President of Bang Zoom! Entertainment
Posted 5/27/10

slowdude wrote:


CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


slowdude wrote:

I'd buy anime if they didn't cost so much (Like a season of anything is $80-$100)
If anime didn't cost so much sure i'd buy it but while its 2-3 times the amount of american tv series nty.
I'd rather buy 5 seasons of NCIS for $150 Aussies dollars then like 2-3 different 12 ep series for around the same price.


you could always import r1 dvd's which are much cheaper, hell cheaper than the ones from japan set your computer to region 1 to play the dvd's. I have 2 dvd burners/players in my computer. One is set to play region 2 dvd's and one is set to defualt for my country, just trying to trough out some suggestions though. when there is a will there is a way :lol:


I refuse. DL'ing anime illegally is much easier.


not going to judge you i sill do the same
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Posted 5/27/10
I have never heard of that company before since I don't really give a shit about dubs.

SUBS FTW!
Posted 5/27/10

xthe_punisherx wrote:

I prefer dubs, and if they die in America a large majority of the industry will go with it.

Not everyone that watches anime is an otaku who wants to watch fansubs online, and dubs dying in America would be a terrible thing.


I prefer dubs but (obviously since i'm here) watch subs too, will always choose dub over sub though. I just like listening to a show without having to read. A show like Durarara!! (which I love) i have to pause sometimes because there's too man words on the screen (like the chat sections). With dubs, you don't have that problem.


well dubs are going to die or so says "Navarre Corporation" they are trying to sell off funimation now as it is. Here is a little info, link is after for more info.

MINNEAPOLIS, May 27, 2010 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Navarre Corporation (Nasdaq:NAVR) a publisher and leading distributor of computer software, home entertainment media and related products, today announced that it has engaged Houlihan Lokey to assist it in structuring and negotiating a potential transaction for the sale of FUNimation Entertainment. There can be no assurances that this process will result in the consummation of a transaction.

http://ir.navarre.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105157&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1431926&highlight=
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Posted 5/27/10

CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:


xthe_punisherx wrote:

I prefer dubs, and if they die in America a large majority of the industry will go with it.

Not everyone that watches anime is an otaku who wants to watch fansubs online, and dubs dying in America would be a terrible thing.


I prefer dubs but (obviously since i'm here) watch subs too, will always choose dub over sub though. I just like listening to a show without having to read. A show like Durarara!! (which I love) i have to pause sometimes because there's too man words on the screen (like the chat sections). With dubs, you don't have that problem.


well dubs are going to die or so says "Navarre Corporation" they are trying to sell off funimation now as it is. Here is a little info, link is after for more info.

MINNEAPOLIS, May 27, 2010 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Navarre Corporation (Nasdaq:NAVR) a publisher and leading distributor of computer software, home entertainment media and related products, today announced that it has engaged Houlihan Lokey to assist it in structuring and negotiating a potential transaction for the sale of FUNimation Entertainment. There can be no assurances that this process will result in the consummation of a transaction.

http://ir.navarre.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105157&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1431926&highlight=


I saw.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-05-27/navarre-evaluates-sale-of-funimation-in-current-quarter

And anyway, it doesn't mean they'll actually sell it. Even if they do, that doesn't mean they're just going to stop making dubs. That's ridiculous.
Posted 5/27/10
Anime will NEVER die in Japan. I mean, its part of their culture.

As for anime in the west, I think they might die but some companies might still dub. After all, won't those dubbers have nothing to do and have to find new jobs?
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Posted 6/1/10

superluccix wrote:
Um first off...I dont think too many people who are blind and are visually impaired watch anime...and remember the key words are "too many people".

So basically, that minority gets left out in the cold, just as I suggested.


Yes I would say I've watched maybe 10 or less animes with shitty dubs. Do I need more than that to realize they suck? No. Its not just me...the majority (Of Crunchyroll at least....who knows what the world thinks....) think this too. Look if I watch 10 animes with dubs...from different genres.....from different companies....and they suck.....do I really need to continue seeing more to figure out it sucks? I think not.

You answered a question I did not ask. I did not question how many dubs you had watched. I questioned the numbers of dubbed series you had watched in their entirety, prior to watching any of the subbed episodes for that series.

Why did I question this? First, because it is normal for those who without exception say "dubs suck". Second, and more importantly, it greatly colors your view of the dub. It would be as if on your favorite live action series, the cast was suddenly replaced. It wouldn't matter even if the new actors were just as talented, or even better, the audience would be strongly biased against them because they were "wrong".


As to the majority on CR, of course that is the way it is. Are the vast majority of CR shows dubs or subs? But remember that CR started as a fansub site, and the vast majority of series here now do not have available dubs, and dubs would be impossible for simulcasts.


As to the community at large, according to the survey by Funimation that was pointed to earlier in this topic, dubs are apparently still preferred by the U.S. public. I also expect the percentage of "dubs suck" persons at their own website would be lower, given that it offers many series in both formats, and has since the start. You also have the vast majority of persons in the forum being teenages, which are more sensitive to peer pressure. How many are likely to speak out and state they like dubs in such an environment? I did not, however, that even in this topic, I am not the only one to speak out for my general preference for dubs.

The most telling argument is this: If dubs were not actually more popular in the U.S. market, why would companies continue to go to the substantially greater expense of making them? It is telling that a dub of Clannad is being made and released, well after the subs-only DVDs have been on the market.

One possibility (which I believe I stated previously): That the majority actually do prefer subs, but those majority of those who actually buy prefer dubs.

Posted 6/1/10


going to have to agree some what but i just bought some dvd's and well I was not amused by the dub acting sorry to say that, I thought that Greg aryres in negima?! was well shitty, he made the kid sound like a uptight brat but maybe that's just me. The only thing I hate about funimation is this, I bought the higurashi "when they cry" box set and "Familiar or Zero" box set as well and they have yet to release the ova's and 2nd/3rd seasons for the series. I do not see a point in picking up a series if they don't follow through with the rest of it, I hate to be left hanging like that but well I do have other means... On the funimtion survey well hmmm I don't trust any survey due to the fact that most only post them to get the results that they want, and to be honest most anime fans will not even metion they like anime with fear being made fun of and so on so they stick to torrents or illegal means.
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Posted 6/1/10 , edited 6/1/10
Yes it is sad....right now I'm trying to support the anime industry by going out/ordering online the items I really like and want to watch....but as you said the titles here in the US are very limited...and they very rarely provide us with "anime for the girls" or shoujo so I have to buy the licensed ones all the way from Malaysia....and truth to be told....the subs they give us aren't that great , I just recently bought VK on dvd and the subs are horrid, the grammar is really bad that I want to just go into it and edit all of it, the names are constantly changed from Yuuki to yuki, the mistake chan for san, and they don't fully sub it, often leaving you to guess what the characters are saying....so I have understood why some people like fansub better than "professional subbed" because often times those "fansubbers" are better than the real deal

-------guys on a sidenote....most of the anime you buy in the US come with SUB and DUB so you can watch them either way ^^ I like subs better than dubs because the dubs kill my eardrums ....so don't just not buy something because you hate "dubs", they usually have both ^^-----
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Posted 6/1/10

TheAncientOne wrote:


superluccix wrote:
Um first off...I dont think too many people who are blind and are visually impaired watch anime...and remember the key words are "too many people".

So basically, that minority gets left out in the cold, just as I suggested.


Yes I would say I've watched maybe 10 or less animes with shitty dubs. Do I need more than that to realize they suck? No. Its not just me...the majority (Of Crunchyroll at least....who knows what the world thinks....) think this too. Look if I watch 10 animes with dubs...from different genres.....from different companies....and they suck.....do I really need to continue seeing more to figure out it sucks? I think not.

You answered a question I did not ask. I did not question how many dubs you had watched. I questioned the numbers of dubbed series you had watched in their entirety, prior to watching any of the subbed episodes for that series.

Why did I question this? First, because it is normal for those who without exception say "dubs suck". Second, and more importantly, it greatly colors your view of the dub. It would be as if on your favorite live action series, the cast was suddenly replaced. It wouldn't matter even if the new actors were just as talented, or even better, the audience would be strongly biased against them because they were "wrong".


As to the majority on CR, of course that is the way it is. Are the vast majority of CR shows dubs or subs? But remember that CR started as a fansub site, and the vast majority of series here now do not have available dubs, and dubs would be impossible for simulcasts.


As to the community at large, according to the survey by Funimation that was pointed to earlier in this topic, dubs are apparently still preferred by the U.S. public. I also expect the percentage of "dubs suck" persons at their own website would be lower, given that it offers many series in both formats, and has since the start. You also have the vast majority of persons in the forum being teenages, which are more sensitive to peer pressure. How many are likely to speak out and state they like dubs in such an environment? I did not, however, that even in this topic, I am not the only one to speak out for my general preference for dubs.

The most telling argument is this: If dubs were not actually more popular in the U.S. market, why would companies continue to go to the substantially greater expense of making them? It is telling that a dub of Clannad is being made and released, well after the subs-only DVDs have been on the market.

One possibility (which I believe I stated previously): That the majority actually do prefer subs, but those majority of those who actually buy prefer dubs.




totally agree with you on this one ;D ...because most sites don't offer dubs, because they are licensed, the people who like dubs often go out and buy their own but some people say "Hey since its right on the website, why do I have to spend money to buy it? "
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Posted 6/1/10
To me, they have a simple way out of this, stop dubbing altogether and start subbing. I can't stand how western voice actors butcher every single line in an anime with their over-the-top forced emotions. IMO, I'd be wiling to pay more for subs rather than dubs. Watching dubbed Naruto gives me headaches everytime Naruto/Sakura speaks out.
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Posted 6/1/10 , edited 6/1/10


Yea they minority gets left out in the cold. They can still buy the dubs if they wish, dont have a problem with that

If when you mean by entirety you mean the whole series as a dub...then no I have not. If you mean just an episode then yes. But all the dubs I have watched have came before the subbed versions to be honest. And plus...why would it matter if I watched either one first? I would still end up with the same conclusion.

I dont quite understand your example but....hey maybe the American voice actors are talented....they just arent talented for voicing anime dubs...it might not be their fault...since I imagine the moving of the mouths of anime characters wouldnt coincide with the english voice acting...but regardless they arent as enjoyable as to subs in my opinion.

And about CR having mostly having subbed animes. When did I ever talk about anime shows just on CR? I just said themajority of CR people prefer subs. And I can also guarantee that all the CR members watch anime that isnt on CR. So yea I wasnt just talking about CR anime shows.

Well I have no idea how true surveys are...but Ill give you the benefit of the doubt. I bet there are a bunch of people who like dubs for various reasons. But I mean the Japanese versions have more emotion...more impact...a better overall then dubs. But hey, people can watch what they want. If they prefer dub let them prefer dub.

And about the people who buy dubs more than subs....I can understand that too. I mean I heard complaints that the font and color sucked....they werent actually accurate(Might not be the case but I swore I heard someone say it on this forum)....stuff like that. Plus Id imagine that if you had a friend who wanted to watch it would be easier in dub.

But yea bottom line is that I understand if people want to buy dubs....I just prefer subs more and have good reason to.

But hey, DVD's have subs and dubs too I believe, so its all good

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Posted 6/4/10

superluccix wrote:



If when you mean by entirety you mean the whole series as a dub...then no I have not. If you mean just an episode then yes. But all the dubs I have watched have came before the subbed versions to be honest. And plus...why would it matter if I watched either one first? I would still end up with the same conclusion.

You certainly would now, as you have built up a strong bias against dubs.

As to why it would matter which you watched first, it is the First Exposure Principle. To give another example, if you saw a remake of a movie without ever having seen the original, you are more likely to think the remake is better (once you see the original) than someone that saw the original. The reverse is also true.


I dont quite understand your example but....hey maybe the American voice actors are talented....they just arent talented for voicing anime dubs...it might not be their fault...since I imagine the moving of the mouths of anime characters wouldnt coincide with the english voice acting...but regardless they arent as enjoyable as to subs in my opinion.

I have been wondering how long it will be before we see the first anime where the lip flaps are re-animated to allow the English translation to be more literal, without worries about matching. While this means more expense, the technology will eventually arrive to make such expense relatively minor. The biggest road block I see to this is possible licensing complications, and moreso that two different video versions would then be required on disc to support both dub and sub. Still, I expect it will at least be tried some day as an expirement, if nothing else.



And about CR having mostly having subbed animes. When did I ever talk about anime shows just on CR? I just said themajority of CR people prefer subs. And I can also guarantee that all the CR members watch anime that isnt on CR. So yea I wasnt just talking about CR anime shows.

As all but a tiny number of CR shows are even available as dubs (and only one I've encountered is dub only), it only makes sense that the audience it attracts would be heavily biased toward dubs, regardless of the fact that most also view anime elsewhere. Given that CR was a fansub site not terribly long ago, and for a good part of its life, it also is logical that the majority of users would frequent other fansub sites.

One could point out that the majority of anime on the internet is subs, but it would be nigh impossible to prove this is because of demand rather than supply. Dubs simply do not exist for many shows, and even when they do, the licensee is much more likely to issue a take-down notice, especially for a site in the same country, than the studio back in Japan is for a series they have not licensed to that country.

As I have mentioned before, I think the internet will be a factor in subs gaining popularity with the more mainstream/casual viewers. My concern is that it often also conditions viewers to expect something completely for free. Even now, there are a worrying percentage of people that would rather watch a free fansub than put up with ads or pay a membership at a legitimate website. I also wonder what percentage of people in Japan jump online and watch a raw or fansub posted at an overseas site rather than rent or buy a DVD, or watch a rerun on TV. With dubs, obviously that isn't going to be a factor, even if they were posted on an internationally-accessible streaming site (i.e., YouTube, etc.).



And about the people who buy dubs more than subs....I can understand that too. I mean I heard complaints that the font and color sucked....they werent actually accurate(Might not be the case but I swore I heard someone say it on this forum)....stuff like that. Plus Id imagine that if you had a friend who wanted to watch it would be easier in dub.

I've also seen people claim that official subs are censored, while others that understand Japanese have pointed out that there was no profanity to begin with, and it was added by the fansubbers. It may in some instances better convey the emotion to add it (as English lacks some of the grammatical forms [for lack of a better word] of Japanese), but it is still a change.



But hey, DVD's have subs and dubs too I believe, so its all good

Apparently not good enough for some. You still have those that strongly protest that official dubs suck, and fansubs rule. I have to wonder, however, if one could read their minds, how many either say this or convince themselves of it as justification to continue getting their fix for free.

Nonetheless, the DVD was a huge advance for those that prefer subs. It would have been a valid complaint back in the VHS days that the mere presence of a dub denied a sub existence, as few publishers would make two different tapes, and even fewer retailers would carry both.

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Posted 6/4/10

kero_and_suppi wrote:

Yes it is sad....right now I'm trying to support the anime industry by going out/ordering online the items I really like and want to watch....but as you said the titles here in the US are very limited...and they very rarely provide us with "anime for the girls" or shoujo so I have to buy the licensed ones all the way from Malaysia

I have to admit I would be a bit leery of "licensed" dubs from Malaysia. I ordered one that was supposedly licensed earlier this year, and yet when I received it, I could not help but notice a fansub group credit in the opening of each episode. Unless the licensee paid a fansub group for their translation (which although possible, is darned unlikely), I got a bootleg.

Unfortunately, for this specific series, the alternative was to import the DVDs directly from Japan at a whopping $70 each, and have no English subtitles. To be honest, however, even if the choice was $70 per DVD with subtitles or doing without, I would choose the latter for the series as a whole. I might have convinced myself to purchase the DVD with the final few episodes, if only it had English subtitles.


....and truth to be told....the subs they give us aren't that great , I just recently bought VK on dvd and the subs are horrid, the grammar is really bad that I want to just go into it and edit all of it, the names are constantly changed from Yuuki to yuki, the mistake chan for san, and they don't fully sub it, often leaving you to guess what the characters are saying....so I have understood why some people like fansub better than "professional subbed" because often times those "fansubbers" are better than the real deal

Of course, fansubs sometimes are lacking, as well. I've seen some that appeared to be dubbed by people that had apparently had a passing knowledge of the English language, and many others that had as many grammatical and spelling errors as some forum posts. Just earlier tonight, I watched an episode of a show that will soon be on CR, and there were phrases uttered that went entirely without subtitles, and one that just had a description of what the dialog was about.

Regarding editing the subtitles, apparently that is possible (provided you have the means to rip the DVD):
http://www.nikse.dk/se/

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