First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
Arizona is getting serious with Illegal Immigration
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 5/24/10 , edited 5/24/10


Ok lol you made your point. But seriously what do you think we should do? Leave things just as is or come up with a new immigration bill and some more border security?
Posted 5/24/10
Racial profiling at it's best, yet people try desperately to deny it and claim it's for the good of America. What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 5/24/10

LosingOrbit wrote:

Racial profiling at it's best, yet people try desperately to deny it and claim it's for the good of America. What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.


I agree it is and there is no way around that. But my beef is this would have never even happened had the US government been so silent on this issue. This bill wouldnt even be here if border security was stronger. What I am asking people what do you want Arizona to do with its 460,000 illegal immigration problem and raising? Do nothing and live their lives?
10521 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / In your room stea...
Offline
Posted 5/24/10

drizza wrote:


LosingOrbit wrote:

Racial profiling at it's best, yet people try desperately to deny it and claim it's for the good of America. What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.


I agree it is and there is no way around that. But my beef is this would have never even happened had the US government been so silent on this issue. This bill wouldnt even be here if border security was stronger. What I am asking people what do you want Arizona to do with its 460,000 illegal immigration problem and raising? Do nothing and live their lives?


They can't live their lives cause the illegal drug people are killing legal citizens there, kidnapping them, armed home invasions, lol, the feds failed, and now the people are paying the price for their incompetent government. So they finally did something about it, and now their getting demonized lol. thats how american politics works
Posted 5/24/10 , edited 5/24/10

LosingOrbit wrote:

Racial profiling at it's best, yet people try desperately to deny it and claim it's for the good of America. What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.
So take notes to that kind of rhetoric, as well as those who agree with it, and the ones who react towards it with indifference or helplessness. They won't take lightly about you calling them hypocrites, even though the truth is you're absolutely right.


drizza wrote:

I agree it is and there is no way around that. But my beef is this would have never even happened had the US government been so silent on this issue. This bill wouldnt even be here if border security was stronger. What I am asking people what do you want Arizona to do with its 460,000 illegal immigration problem and raising? Do nothing and live their lives?
Why not? As in do you want to have their jobs? Would you like to get paid with what they're earning at? What makes you not want to be as problematic like them, when they don't even have the skills nor talents to qualify for the higher paying jobs?
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 5/24/10

DomFortress wrote:


LosingOrbit wrote:

Racial profiling at it's best, yet people try desperately to deny it and claim it's for the good of America. What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.
So take notes to that kind of rhetoric, as well as those who agree with it, and the ones who react towards it with indifference or helplessness. They won't take lightly about you calling them hypocrites, even though the truth is you're absolutely right.


drizza wrote:

I agree it is and there is no way around that. But my beef is this would have never even happened had the US government been so silent on this issue. This bill wouldnt even be here if border security was stronger. What I am asking people what do you want Arizona to do with its 460,000 illegal immigration problem and raising? Do nothing and live their lives?
Why not? As in do you want to have their jobs? Would you like to get paid with what they're earning at? What makes you not want to be as problematic like them, when they don't even have the skills nor talents to qualify for the higher paying jobs?


Well this is the deal if we enjoy their services then what the government should do is still secure the border. Grant the illegals here who are working hard amnesty and make them pay back taxes. Right now they dont pay any taxes to the government like all Americans do. Do you know how many Americans would be happy if they had to pay no taxes every year? The IRS dont play if you dont make your payments they sieze everything. So lets be fair if your going to work and live here fine get amnesty and pay your taxes like everyone. But I dont believe in leaving the border wide open I believe there has to be better security to stop drug trafficing, kidnapping, and crime. Not blaming all crime on the illegals of course but just for some citizens to have to deal from crime for foreigners is wrong and Arizona has a right to protect it's citizens. Of course we could simply eliminate the drug trafficing by just legalizing the damn thing.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 5/24/10

Allhailodin wrote:


drizza wrote:


LosingOrbit wrote:

Racial profiling at it's best, yet people try desperately to deny it and claim it's for the good of America. What a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.


I agree it is and there is no way around that. But my beef is this would have never even happened had the US government been so silent on this issue. This bill wouldnt even be here if border security was stronger. What I am asking people what do you want Arizona to do with its 460,000 illegal immigration problem and raising? Do nothing and live their lives?


They can't live their lives cause the illegal drug people are killing legal citizens there, kidnapping them, armed home invasions, lol, the feds failed, and now the people are paying the price for their incompetent government. So they finally did something about it, and now their getting demonized lol. thats how american politics works


Like I said I understand both sides and this is largely due to the failure on Washington's part to address this issue. Like I stated if they had better border security and a sensible immigration policy Arizona wouldn't have to resort to such draconian laws. They have now because they are at the ropes with this issue and it is costing their governments millions of dollars a year. Hopefully if Washington wakes up and comes up with a good policy Arizona would overturn this law. It is racial profiling lets be honest and really I cant say I all the way support it, but this is a result of failed policy on Washington side.
1288 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
A small place in...
Offline
Posted 5/24/10 , edited 5/24/10

drizza wrote:


Northboundsnow wrote:

"Alright men, this is the order for deportation
First we be rounding up our tired,
then your poor,
then your huddled masses yearning to be free" Chief Wiggum, Simpson




Ok lol you made your point. But seriously what do you think we should do? Leave things just as is or come up with a new immigration bill and some more border security?

Well you are right to express concern regarding the immigration problem in Arizona where there is an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants there. On the issue of the failure of the Federal government to address the immigration problem, such reforms usually take time to pass through congress and that the security borders are usually best left to state with federal government providing guidelines as it is the right of the free state to enforce its own borders without federal intervention.

On one side, there is concern that these immigrants may settle in with their family, take jobs and commit crime. There is also a growing fear that the influx of immigrants, especially Hispanics, would result in a larger Hispanic population in America who in turn make seek proper registration as state citizen thus have a greater say of the running of America especially when it comes down to the voting booth. Critics believe that this is a form of racial profiling and this has serious implications as other states may adopt similar measures which in turn may lead to other races besides Hispanics and tougher measure be imposed for airports. The problem of children who were born in the United States, thus such laws put a strain on police on what to do for such families, should the family be separated? Then there is the issue of proper American citizens who are of questionable national identity and race but will require identification but actually infringe on the rights of the US citizen, the 4th amendment of the US constitution.

To be fair, the original Arizona immigration bill was harsh and there were real concerns about racial profiling but recent protests had resulted in amendments in April and May and changes to the original Arizona bill to address these issues. One such amendment was that police may only stop or detain someone for violating a different law and no one can be stopped on the sole suspicion that they're in the country illegally. Another change stipulates that "a law enforcement official or agency cannot consider race, color or national origin when implementing" the law.

I am gonna leave this open ended and reserve judgement and see what everyone else think about this, here are some links.

Arizona immigration bill - http://www.azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/SB_1070_Signed.pdf
Amendments - http://www.azleg.gov/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.hb2162_ccmemo.doc.htm&CiRestriction=%22lawful+stop%22
The Wise Wizard
75062 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
53 / M / U.S.A.
Online
Posted 5/30/10
The biggest problem I have with the Arizona law is that it might as well have a big "Abuse Me" sign taped to its back.

It would have little problem with it...if people were perfect.

I also believe they have a right to pass and enforce this law, until and unless a court says otherwise. I also believe people and other states have the right to protest it by any legal means.
8742 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Scotland, Aberdeen
Offline
Posted 5/30/10

TheAncientOne wrote:
I also believe they have a right to pass and enforce this law, until and unless a court says otherwise. I also believe people and other states have the right to protest it by any legal means.


Why should states have the right to question other states' legal and legislative competence? Arizona could well say 'Right boys, I think you're a bunch of incompetent imbeciles and so I'm making the laws for you, starting... now!' Was Arizona acting within legislative competence? Yes? Sure? Ok, then leave her be.
The Wise Wizard
75062 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
53 / M / U.S.A.
Online
Posted 5/30/10

DerfelCadarn wrote:


TheAncientOne wrote:
I also believe they have a right to pass and enforce this law, until and unless a court says otherwise. I also believe people and other states have the right to protest it by any legal means.


Why should states have the right to question other states' legal and legislative competence? Arizona could well say 'Right boys, I think you're a bunch of incompetent imbeciles and so I'm making the laws for you, starting... now!' Was Arizona acting within legislative competence? Yes? Sure? Ok, then leave her be.

I said protest, not question.

As to the right, it is the same right that individuals have to protest it. In theory at least, states represent the will of the majority of their populace, and therefore should be afforded the same right.
4053 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Yo Mommas House
Offline
Posted 5/30/10

Northboundsnow wrote:


drizza wrote:


Northboundsnow wrote:

"Alright men, this is the order for deportation
First we be rounding up our tired,
then your poor,
then your huddled masses yearning to be free" Chief Wiggum, Simpson




Ok lol you made your point. But seriously what do you think we should do? Leave things just as is or come up with a new immigration bill and some more border security?

Well you are right to express concern regarding the immigration problem in Arizona where there is an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants there. On the issue of the failure of the Federal government to address the immigration problem, such reforms usually take time to pass through congress and that the security borders are usually best left to state with federal government providing guidelines as it is the right of the free state to enforce its own borders without federal intervention.

On one side, there is concern that these immigrants may settle in with their family, take jobs and commit crime. There is also a growing fear that the influx of immigrants, especially Hispanics, would result in a larger Hispanic population in America who in turn make seek proper registration as state citizen thus have a greater say of the running of America especially when it comes down to the voting booth. Critics believe that this is a form of racial profiling and this has serious implications as other states may adopt similar measures which in turn may lead to other races besides Hispanics and tougher measure be imposed for airports. The problem of children who were born in the United States, thus such laws put a strain on police on what to do for such families, should the family be separated? Then there is the issue of proper American citizens who are of questionable national identity and race but will require identification but actually infringe on the rights of the US citizen, the 4th amendment of the US constitution.

To be fair, the original Arizona immigration bill was harsh and there were real concerns about racial profiling but recent protests had resulted in amendments in April and May and changes to the original Arizona bill to address these issues. One such amendment was that police may only stop or detain someone for violating a different law and no one can be stopped on the sole suspicion that they're in the country illegally. Another change stipulates that "a law enforcement official or agency cannot consider race, color or national origin when implementing" the law.

I am gonna leave this open ended and reserve judgement and see what everyone else think about this, here are some links.

Arizona immigration bill - http://www.azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/SB_1070_Signed.pdf
Amendments - http://www.azleg.gov/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.hb2162_ccmemo.doc.htm&CiRestriction=%22lawful+stop%22


I agree the main thing many people are worried about is if they can racially profile hispanics how do you know they wont come up with anything to racially profile you? But on the other hand you said it takes time to get a bill to pass but I mean how much time? How long have we had an illegal immigration problem? Do you live in any of these border states to see the problems? We have to be reasonable here we cant have "open" borders because even when you take in the good you are also taking in the bad also. This is why there is a process of check or all of these things. Yes some illegals making our services cheaper such as lawn mowing, car repair, many house services etc.. But at the other hand there is drug trafficking, and the drug cartels getting rich, kidnapping. Hell the cartels are so powerful the Mexican government cant even stop them. So to me to be fair to everyone who is trying to immigrate to this country then rather giving a green card to Mexico is everyone should go through a process. It is unfair for Hispanics to skip and lets say someone from India having to wait 7 years or more to become legal or migrate to America.

As stated before if the federal level continue to fail on this issue I wouldn't be surprised if all borderstates have this draconian law. On another note Arizona is the only state brave enough to tackle this issue because many other politicians wont raise a finger about this because they care about votes more then the safety of America. Still I wish the Federal Government would act on this because I dont want this to be a norm whenever we have a problem in the US we start racial profiling.
8742 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / Scotland, Aberdeen
Offline
Posted 5/30/10

TheAncientOne wrote:
I said protest, not question.

As to the right, it is the same right that individuals have to protest it. In theory at least, states represent the will of the majority of their populace, and therefore should be afforded the same right.


I would normally agree with you, but legislative competence is a very delicate issue. Effectively, if you protest, you are doing so with a view to forcing the legislature of the alien state to change their laws in accordance with your own views. That is fine between hostile or even neutral states bordering on hostile, but here you have states who have mutually acknowledged the legitimacy and competence of one another. If it is a protest by citizens, that is fine, they are the electorate of the states, after all, and they are also very limited in their power in such cases. My problem is not that they criticise or even boycott the law, my problem with the whole thing is that they do it on policy grounds when the Arizona legislature is the valid policy-maker in Arizona. Also, it is representative democracy, so the democratic nexus between the legislature and the electorate, in my subjective view, is far too weak for protest by way of proxy in matters of legislative competence of other states. But, as I have stated above, that is mere opinion.
1288 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
A small place in...
Offline
Posted 5/31/10

drizza wrote:


Northboundsnow wrote:


drizza wrote:


Northboundsnow wrote:





I agree the main thing many people are worried about is if they can racially profile hispanics how do you know they wont come up with anything to racially profile you? But on the other hand you said it takes time to get a bill to pass but I mean how much time? How long have we had an illegal immigration problem? Do you live in any of these border states to see the problems? We have to be reasonable here we cant have "open" borders because even when you take in the good you are also taking in the bad also. This is why there is a process of check or all of these things. Yes some illegals making our services cheaper such as lawn mowing, car repair, many house services etc.. But at the other hand there is drug trafficking, and the drug cartels getting rich, kidnapping. Hell the cartels are so powerful the Mexican government cant even stop them. So to me to be fair to everyone who is trying to immigrate to this country then rather giving a green card to Mexico is everyone should go through a process. It is unfair for Hispanics to skip and lets say someone from India having to wait 7 years or more to become legal or migrate to America.

As stated before if the federal level continue to fail on this issue I wouldn't be surprised if all borderstates have this draconian law. On another note Arizona is the only state brave enough to tackle this issue because many other politicians wont raise a finger about this because they care about votes more then the safety of America. Still I wish the Federal Government would act on this because I dont want this to be a norm whenever we have a problem in the US we start racial profiling.

I confess I do not live in these border states and are unfortunately ignorant of the full aspect of the situation on the ground in places like Arizona and perhaps coming from someone from you from whom I assume you are living or working there and know well the conditions there, perhaps there need to be a more stricter border and immigration control. Not only that perhaps both side of the fences need to address both issues and come to an understanding of a firm yet fair yet allow flexibility to allow those fleeing oppression or prosecution to settle within the country. There need to be more open talks and ways for those between the different religion, races or cultures to mix and integrate with one another so as to dispel fears or misconception between one another. We should also try to not split families already living or contributing to the country. There need to be ways for honest immigrants to seek citizenship easier,

The biggest issue that people have on immigrants especially on this current climate are that they are taking jobs. The irony is that in such an economic situation, its actually the immigrants who are hardest hit and usually the first to be given the sack. Also this is as much a fault as the Americans as everyone else. On low-income paying jobs, Americans refuse to work or commit to such jobs but complain when such jobs are taken. For high-income jobs where expertise and flexibility are needed, Americans floundered as education standards in Maths and even basic English as well as general knowledge of the World in comparison to immigrants from Asia or even India.

My main concern of the Arizona immigration bill is the way they brought about the original Arizona immigration bill which there were real concerns of racial profiling and discrimination. The worst part was due to the recent protests, the lawmakers have chosen not to discuss the issues but watered-down the bill infuriating both sides of the fence. The issue of federal intervention takes time because of the nature of American politics,where people clamor for smaller government thus allowing the right of the state to enforce its borders without federal intervention, pretty hypocritical of these lawmakers to accuse the government to play a bigger role while also wanting to enforce without federal intervention on state affairs, notably education and even immigration.

Lest you think that there had been no federal aid in Arizona immigration, Bush administration had launched the Virtual Mexico-US virtual fence in 2005/2006 in the form of cameras, sensors and radar, the SBInet but have had its spending freeze in March 2010 as problems ranging from software glitches, camera images affected by wind and rain, and radar trouble distinguishing trees and animals from man.

Arizona immigration bill - http://www.azgovernor.gov/dms/upload/SB_1070_Signed.pdf
Amendments - http://www.azleg.gov/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/legtext/49leg/2r/summary/h.hb2162_ccmemo.doc.htm&CiRestriction=%22lawful+stop%22
55159 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
52 / F / Atlanta GA
Offline
Posted 6/13/10
To me this problem has several fixes to it, One) legalized drugs that would destroy drug cartels and the war on drug’s was a failure from the start, just like prohibition was. Two) no more anchor babies and no SSI checks to the family in Mexico, for crossing the border a squeezing on out. Three) if you have a foreign accent the police do have the right to check for green card or proof of residency. Four) Pass Law just as draconian as Mexicans have on the book for illegal workers. Five) If not a citizen no medical treat without money first just as Spanish brethren do to use. Six) Fine, Corporation, and give prison time for those doing the hiring of illegal’s. Seven) anybody in the government caught selling a forge documents 10 years hard labor at a Leavenworth type prison. Both parties can drop dead in this case war not peace
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.