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Christians
766 cr points
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28 / M / England
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Posted 6/16/07
I'll abstain from the brunt of this topic, but I would like to ask a quick question.

If the idea of an eternal realm of utopia, peace, love and happiness does not appeal all that much to me, am I irrevocably going to hell, or if I lead a 'good' life will I reach heaven and spend the rest of eternity miserable?
254 cr points
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29 / M / mooooooo
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Posted 6/16/07
fuck god
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27 / M / Japan
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Posted 6/16/07
@ Cocky: First, "heaven" is not really defined as "utopia" or "peace" or "love" or even "happiness". In fact, there is not direct definition of what exactly heaven is. There have been allusions to such terms, and even Jesus himself uses the term "paradise" ~ but this is a very relative term. The idea of heaven has been understood through the study of the scriptures as the presence of God. To be in heaven is to be in his presence.

Taking this into consideration, that means that anyone who leads a righteous life (a "good" life by the teachings of Jesus, without necessarily having known or believed in him ~ this concept is known as "spermaticus logicus" or the "seeds of knowledge" ~ undeniable moral truths that speak of existence and life. Good example, Khalil Ghibran) will most definitely go to heaven, and their perception of heaven will be "paradise" as known by that person. It is understood that one leads a righteous life when one comes to understand himself ~ and only God (or whatever entity that governs "heaven") will know what is best for us as well. So to answer your question, that which brings you to the fullest of who you are as a person will be you heaven. Heaven is not a static "utopia", I believe. Hope I made a little sense. :P

@ kinetik111: a blunt comment like that gives little to discuss about. If you would like to share your dissents about any religious belief, making yourself clear is a start.
Posted 6/16/07

edsamac wrote:

^ The sign of the cross is just that ~ a reminder that "we are in the most holy presence of God". Sure, there are those people that do it real quickly and it looks so mechanical... but sometimes, you can really feel it... hehe. Now people will think I'm some kind of weirdo...

Well, I don't blame people for thinking we catholics are a little too traditional... because maybe, we are. But there are many new insights that the catholic religion has been gaining, and many of these I've learned from the Jesuits. Let's say my religious convictions have been "refreshed" thanks to them. :)

Tell me, is it true that "Christians" (sorry, I really don't feel comfortable using the term, because I, myself, am a Christian, but a Christian Catholic) think that people who don't believe in Jesus (christianity) will go to hell? One of my Born Again friends keeps pestering my Buddhist friend because she says that he'll (the buddhist) go to hell... :sweatingbullets:


For me, as a born again christian, the majority of my friends are non-christians. I know, unless they find faith in Jesus, they will go to Hell. Thinking of that hurts me so much, I've cried over it before. Can you blame your friend for pestering her friend? She's being blunt, I could never say "You're going to Hell," to one of my friends. If they asked, I would say yes. I've realized that you can't force your friends to have faith, especially by pestering them. It's our jobs, as christians, to tell them about God's love for us. I reflect in my life that I'm a christian to my friends. I tell them about God, but I don't condemn them for not being christians, because I have no right to. If they are in trouble, I give my advice coming from a Christian, rather than wordly advice. I invite them to youth group, and my youth group's events. I do believe that people who don't have faith in Jesus will go to Hell, but I'm not blunt about it.
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29 / M / mooooooo
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Posted 6/16/07
@edsamac

how would you know if god is really there?
the bible?
i dont have anything wrong with christians,
but some of u guys rly have a fucking irritating hollier than thou attitude
and i dont really appreciate being told all the time that im going to hell if i dont go to church
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25 / M / Columbia, Maryland
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Posted 6/16/07

kinetik111 wrote:

@edsamac

how would you know if god is really there?
the bible?
i dont have anything wrong with christians,
but some of u guys rly have a fucking irritating hollier than thou attitude
and i dont really appreciate being told all the time that im going to hell if i dont go to church


Hey, I'm a born again Christian and I've been one for at least 3 years, but people who walk around with that high and mighty Christian attitude piss me off too. I had to put up with that whole "go to church or burn in hell" thing all the time, especially from my parents. I was grateful for them because I am saved now, but it really irritated me back then. Christians are supposed to tell people about the love of God so that they can see it for themselves, not force it on others like a bunch of Fascists. It's just a shame that too many Christians don't know that, so they act like they're better than the world because they're saved or whatever.
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28 / M / England
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Posted 6/16/07
Thanks for the reasoned response edsamac.

The idea of 'utopia' seems to be the most commonly held view of heaven so I just thought I'd go with that one, I've heard the transitory idea of the nature of heaven too, whereby heaven is somewhat something of what we make it. The least exciting prospect I have been told, is where you will spend the rest of eternity on your knees (perhaps literally, perhaps not) praising him.

Heaven always seems to be the transcendant carrot to Hell's stick, and it seems to me at least, logical that it would be a 'pleasurable' experience, from this however arises problems, most of which have been addressed by theologians over the years, such as if one denies himself from acting upon an "immoral" thought, perhaps for his entire life (Lets take for example... Sadism), will he still be eligible for Heaven? Modern Christian thinking tends to be a bit 'softer' on un-acted impulses, hence it is easier to assume that such a person would still be admitted.

My question was mostly just a progression of this. Would a Sadist's heaven be one where he could cause harm to others? And if not, would heaven not seem like hell, having to continually deny ones nature after a few millenia?
308 cr points
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22 / Australia
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Posted 6/16/07
I agree with Darklion.
1141 cr points
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20 / M / B.C.,Canada 加拿大! :D
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Posted 6/16/07
Christians are weird.
Therfore, I am not a Christian.
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21 / F / Hell
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Posted 6/16/07
WHOO JESUS ROCKS im a christian alll the way!!! plus my grandpa is a preacher so i have to go to church EVERY sunday...
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26 / M / Yuba city Califor...
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Posted 6/16/07

azrael910 wrote:


Affliction420 wrote:

I thought that

Catholics believed that the only one that can speak to "God" is Mary

Protestants believe on a personal relationship with "God"

thats what my World religions teacher described it as, but I really wouldn't put too much faith in her she showed up to class high almost every day...


It's a little more complicated. The catholic church was basically a financial/political organization that relied on keeping the public ignorant about the actual contents of the bible to keep control. They literally told Kings how to run their countries, and had cash flowing in from all of europe.

Then this guy (a former monk), used education and an open mind in pursuit of truth (relative to the time) and defied the most powerful force in the western world at the time. He even translated the Bible into a modern language the common people could read. (back then , even the mass was in latin... what good is that going to do?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther

The catholic church never really recovered. They've reformed themselves a great deal since then, but much of what Luther pointed out is still true even today. There have been other reformers who've come along, but Luther was one of the first and most significant.

Are catholics christian? I think as long as the believe in the death and the resurrection of Christ as atonement for their sins (and the need for such act), as well as dvinity of Christ, sure, they're christians. That's the key belief that would make someone christian. The rest is just details really.


well I wasn't talking about the political influences on the catholic church but the belief system between the two.

Being able to speak directly to "God" in protestant religions

And speaking indirectly in catholicism, through Mary

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26 / M / Yuba city Califor...
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Posted 6/16/07

wushuWHOOSH wrote:

hmms...
used 2 b a christian.
since pri sch dn i stop bein a christian liaoos.
i tot it is jz sum belief.
bt nw, cum 2 tink of it.
iznt science a belief 2?
so nw i tink bof r nice.
science cre8s miracles.
christianity brings ppl 2geder.
bof r nice lahhs.
xD


all...I have to say is wow...please spend an extra 5 seconds of your time and type out what you are trying to say

Typing like that makes you look really dumb and most of that garbage you typed I cant decipher after reading it 3 times, so if you really want people to understand you type it out

sorry for being off topic that shit just really pisses me off

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41 / M / Gaia
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Posted 6/16/07
lol people with imaginairy friends is funny
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32 / M / 中国
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Posted 6/16/07

WAHA_DESU wrote:

lol people with imaginairy friends is funny


Go back to 4chan FAG

....actually better yet, get the bored 12 year old pole smokers to raid us

do it faggot..
24986 cr points
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F / ♫~Canada~Vancouver☺
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Posted 6/16/07
yup im a christian. protestant. IM in a christian high school too^^
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