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Israel
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Posted 5/31/10
Why do people always harp on the bad and neglect the good of that nation?
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Posted 5/31/10
personally, I dont hate Israel or anything it just that they NEVER admit that they did anything wrong, and if you say something against them, you are automatically anti - smite etc etc. That just gets on my nerves. Like little baby - it is always somebody else, not me. They have a nice state. Now it is time for that state to grow the hell up.
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Posted 5/31/10

blancer wrote:

personally, I dont hate Israel or anything it just that they NEVER admit that they did anything wrong, and if you say something against them, you are automatically anti - smite etc etc. That just gets on my nerves. Like little baby - it is always somebody else, not me. They have a nice state. Now it is time for that state to grow the hell up.


If you speak out for them, then you are regarded as an imperialist pig who hates arabs, &c. &c. And the Arab nations would never admit to the fact that they are all shitty hell-holes with about as much human rights as a Soviet Style Gulag or that their way of making their Jewish neighbours feel welcome consists of several progoms, with a few 'Death to evil Jew-swines' for good measure.
Yei
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Posted 5/31/10
It's an outlaw, terrorist, racist, out of control, apartheid state with no concern for any form of human rights. There are some great aspects to Israel, like it's impressive development, but there were positive aspects to any states, like apartheid South Africa and other insane terrorist states. But people tend to focus on the hideous and enormous flaws and crimes of such states, for pretty obvious reasons. Maybe when Israel starts following international law, people will start saying more positive things about it.
Posted 5/31/10
Israel was illegal from its inception, carved up completely from one-sided interests. It's sickening how the US and EU continue to prop up this rogue state like indentured servants.
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Posted 5/31/10

Yei wrote:

It's an outlaw, terrorist, racist, out of control, apartheid state with no concern for any form of human rights. There are some great aspects to Israel, like it's impressive development, but there were positive aspects to any states, like apartheid South Africa and other insane terrorist states. But people tend to focus on the hideous and enormous flaws and crimes of such states, for pretty obvious reasons. Maybe when Israel starts following international law, people will start saying more positive things about it.


So, despite having ten thousand Arabs as its citizen, among whom, several are prominent government officials, they are an apartheid state? I don't recall Black People haveing as much influance in politics as the Arabs in Israel. But, you are right, it is a terrorist and racist state, unlike those valient and brave other Middle Eastern nations...
('Achmed, do you see woman jew without view?'
'Yes!' 'Do you know what this mean?'
'Jihad!'
'Pogrom!')

To the point:
It has its faults, sure, but, it is by far the most open and most free country in the whole of the Middle East, unlike states that make insitutionalised bigotry as its main policies. (Saudi Arabia, Iran, &c.)

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Posted 5/31/10

jandarujora wrote:

Israel was illegal from its inception, carved up completely from one-sided interests. It's sickening how the US and EU continue to prop up this rogue state like indentured servants.


Every country in the Middle East was drawn up by the Brits and Frenchs because they thought the shape look pretty, why are you not disgusted at that? Or the fact that Kurds do not have a nation of their own, whist being oppressed in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran? And what interest do we have in Israel, the only country there without oil?
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Posted 5/31/10
Spare me the moral rubbish, please. Just take a look at the history of most of the currently extant states and tell me what proportion of states had been created as a result of non-armed efforts. Just take the UK. The Romans raped the Celts, the Saxons raped the romanised Celts and their savage northern cousins and they raped the Romans too, in fact they raped them out of cloudy Albion, then the Norse went to what later became Normandy to rape a tad bit there and then they went to cloudy Albion because the Saxons were in need of some raping, and they got it. How is it that you don't question any of these steps and the criminality of Romans, Saxons and Normans?

Israel is an established state that has a bright future in front of it. The future was paid in blood, the blood of the belligerents and in that regard it is no different from most other countries. Tell you, Palestine does not offer the west much. Israel has a sufficient degree of development and control to serve as an ally worth keeping and there is no reason why the west should not help such an ally so long as it is expedient to do so. But oh wait, I'm so foolish, I should have known that, apparently, the Jews control the world and they're running the west. Pardon me, obviously there is vast evidence for something so implausible and I wouldn't go so far as to question the validity of bullshit theories a conspiracy junkies on acid dreamt up, that I wouldn't.
Yei
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Posted 5/31/10 , edited 6/1/10

orangeflute wrote:

So, despite having ten thousand Arabs as its citizen, among whom, several are prominent government officials, they are an apartheid state? I don't recall Black People haveing as much influance in politics as the Arabs in Israel. But, you are right, it is a terrorist and racist state, unlike those valient and brave other Middle Eastern nations...
('Achmed, do you see woman jew without view?'
'Yes!' 'Do you know what this mean?'
'Jihad!'
'Pogrom!')

To the point:
It has its faults, sure, but, it is by far the most open and most free country in the whole of the Middle East, unlike states that make insitutionalised bigotry as its main policies. (Saudi Arabia, Iran, &c.)



It's an apartheid state because it imposes apartheid in the occupied territories. but the apartheid is also apparent in Israel itself, a Palestinian who was expelled and who's ancestors have been living in Palestine for millenniums is rejected entry into the country while a secular Jew born in New York is automatically granted citizenship, for being Jewish. The land ownership laws are also extremely racist in Israel.

I don't know what relevance Arab states have to the topic.

Simply saying "it has its faults" is a ridiculous understatement. Apartheid South Africa also had its faults, and it doesn't come near Israel's level of terrorism and oppression and illegal policies. It's irrelevant whether it's free compared to Arab states, that doesn't change the fact it's an outlaw, racist, terrorist state that refuses to follow the law.



DerfelCadarn wrote:

Spare me the moral rubbish, please. Just take a look at the history of most of the currently extant states and tell me what proportion of states had been created as a result of non-armed efforts. Just take the UK. The Romans raped the Celts, the Saxons raped the romanised Celts and their savage northern cousins and they raped the Romans too, in fact they raped them out of cloudy Albion, then the Norse went to what later became Normandy to rape a tad bit there and then they went to cloudy Albion because the Saxons were in need of some raping, and they got it. How is it that you don't question any of these steps and the criminality of Romans, Saxons and Normans?

Israel is an established state that has a bright future in front of it. The future was paid in blood, the blood of the belligerents and in that regard it is no different from most other countries. Tell you, Palestine does not offer the west much. Israel has a sufficient degree of development and control to serve as an ally worth keeping and there is no reason why the west should not help such an ally so long as it is expedient to do so. But oh wait, I'm so foolish, I should have known that, apparently, the Jews control the world and they're running the west. Pardon me, obviously there is vast evidence for something so implausible and I wouldn't go so far as to question the validity of bullshit theories a conspiracy junkies on acid dreamt up, that I wouldn't.


Israel was chosen by the US to be a military base and surrogate state in the Middle East. So the US fully funded Israel's army and gave it billions of dollars annually to help it develop. It's development isn't because of the amazing work of the Israelis, the US is responsible. The blacks in apartheid South Africa also did not offer the west much. But the whites, and the apartheid regime did, it was a great military power thanks to the US. And the US was it's number one ally, funding it's military much like it does Israel's. And both apartheid states carry out orders from their godfather.

So, I'm assuming you also think we should have kept supporting apartheid South Africa, cause it benefits the west. And we should continue supporting every brutal dictatorship and police state in the world, because it benefits the west? International law, human rights, basic human morality really isn't a factor for you, is it? The fact that Israel is one of the worst terrorist states, refuses to obey the law, and continues to keep Palestinians living like animals is irrelevant? Well we're not on the same page here, I think Israel's policies towards the land it continues to illegally occupy and the Palestinians that live there is disgusting because I believe human beings should have some level of rights and dignity, I couldn't care less about the west's interests.

I have no idea what this random Jewish conspiracy thing you brought up has to do with anything. Like orangeflute, and lots of others, you play the antisemitism card to distract people from the real issue.
Posted 6/1/10 , edited 6/1/10
Jews are small in population, but they are in charge of a lot of things, garnering all the profit in the world to keep that fascist state of Israel alive and powerful. Let's look at a FEW examples of what they own from within America, even facilitating the trends currently present in pop culture. They are either fully Jewish or partly Jewish:

CONTROLLERS OF THE MONEY SUPPLY
Federal Reserve: Ben Bernanke
Internal Revenue Service: Douglas Shulman
International Monetary Fund: Dominique Strauss-Kahn
World Bank: (formerly) Paul Wolfowitz
Federal Trade Commission: Jon Leibowitz
Goldman Sachs: Lloyd Blankfein
Lehman Brothers: Richard S. Fuld, Jr.

HEADS OF MEGA CORPORATIONS
Union Carbide: Patrick E. Gottschalk (who still hasn't taken responsibility for the Bhopal disaster)
Pfizer: Jeff Kindler
General Electric: Jeffrey R. Immelt

CEOs/CHAIRMEN OF THE MEDIA CORPORATIONS
CBS Corporation: Sumner M. Redstone (who also owns Viacom, which owns Paramount PIctures)
Weinstein Company: Harvey and Bob Weinstein
Lionsgate: Jon Feltheimer
Fox Entertainment: Peter Chernin
Walt Disney Company: Robert Iger
NBC Universal: Jeffrey Zucker
Metro-Goldwyn Mayer: Harry Sloan
Dreamworks: Steven Spielberg, Jeffrey Katzenberg, David Geffen
New Line Cinema: Toby Emmerich

Jews also hire other Jews to direct/produce the biggest blockbuster films: Jerry Bruckheimer, Jon Favreau, Sam Raimi, Joel Schumacher, Roland Emmerich, Gore Verbinski, etc.

CEOs/CHAIRMEN IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY
Warner Music Group: Edgar Bronfman Jr.
Columbia Records: Rick Rubin
Sony Music Entertainment: Clive Davis
Geffen Records: David Geffen

COMMISSIONERS IN THE SPORTS INDUSTRY
Major League Baseball: Bud Selig
National Basketball Association: David Stern
National Hockey League: Gary Bettman
U.S. Soccer Federation: Alan Rothenberg (founder)

ESPN is also owned by Walt Disney Company

LEADERS IN AMERICA'S SMUT CULTURE
Pornographic star: Ron Jeremy
Tabloid show host: Jerry Springer
Talk show legend: Howard Stern

CHAIRPERSONS IN CLOTHING INDUSTRY
Levi Strauss: Richard Kauffman
Liz Claiborne: Isaac Mizrahi (creative director)
Ralph Lauren: Ralph Rueben Lifshitz
Guess: Paul Marciano
Calvin Klein: Calvin Klein
Jordache: Nakash Brothers
Chanel: Wertheimer Brothers

OTHER LEADERS IN TODAY'S SOCIETY
Facebook CEO: Mark Zuckerberg
Google CEO: Eric Schmidt
Starbucks CEO: Howard Schultz
Kraft Foods CEO: Irene Rosenfeld

Feel free to add more to this list. And this is just a few examples coming from a single country, which they only constitute 2% of the population. A few of these people have also had histories of activity within the Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission, Council of Foreign Affairs, and even the Bohemian Club. They have all the lobbying power and bribe money to continue propping up that fabricated nation of theirs, while being the bosses of international capitalism.

"HE WHO HAS THE MONEY MAKES THE RULES."
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Posted 6/1/10

orangeflute wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Israel was illegal from its inception, carved up completely from one-sided interests. It's sickening how the US and EU continue to prop up this rogue state like indentured servants.


Every country in the Middle East was drawn up by the Brits and Frenchs because they thought the shape look pretty, why are you not disgusted at that? Or the fact that Kurds do not have a nation of their own, whist being oppressed in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran? And what interest do we have in Israel, the only country there without oil?


true. if there is someone to blame its brits. before they invaded and took over, all those countries were part of huge muslim empire called Ottoman empire. And all was well there (accept for Kurds, but war with Kurds was the same for muslims as was war with protestants in europe). No suicide bombings, no f.. up views about women, foreigners, etc etc. I dont remember if it was you with whom I was talking about wwI, but here is another reason for it: brits wanted more colonies (middle east - like they didnt had enough. and god knows why, since at the time no one knew there was oil under the desert)). so Ottomans (Turkey) was forced to ally themselves with Austro - Hungarian monarchy, the same one that was stopping them in their conquest of the known world for some 500 to 600 years.
Posted 6/1/10 , edited 6/1/10

orangeflute wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Israel was illegal from its inception, carved up completely from one-sided interests. It's sickening how the US and EU continue to prop up this rogue state like indentured servants.


Every country in the Middle East was drawn up by the Brits and Frenchs because they thought the shape look pretty, why are you not disgusted at that? Or the fact that Kurds do not have a nation of their own, whist being oppressed in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran? And what interest do we have in Israel, the only country there without oil?


Fact is there is no point in America supporting Israel, yet they do and will continue to, even without having oil. You forget that AIPAC is among the largest and most influential lobbies and interest groups in America (always in the top five priorities with both Democrats and Republicans), with branches reaching all 50 US States and financial contributions to just about every Congressman. In other words, they're going to get just about whatever they want because money talks. You think the Kurds or anyone else have that same kind of representation to have their own nation, even if they are rightfully entitled to one?
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Posted 6/1/10

Yei wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

So, despite having ten thousand Arabs as its citizen, among whom, several are prominent government officials, they are an apartheid state? I don't recall Black People haveing as much influance in politics as the Arabs in Israel. But, you are right, it is a terrorist and racist state, unlike those valient and brave other Middle Eastern nations...
('Achmed, do you see woman jew without view?'
'Yes!' 'Do you know what this mean?'
'Jihad!'
'Pogrom!')

To the point:
It has its faults, sure, but, it is by far the most open and most free country in the whole of the Middle East, unlike states that make insitutionalised bigotry as its main policies. (Saudi Arabia, Iran, &c.)



It's an apartheid state because it imposes apartheid in the occupied territories. but the apartheid is also apparent in Israel itself, a Palestinian who was expelled and who's ancestors have been living in Palestine for millenniums is rejected entry into the country while a secular Jew born in New York is automatically granted citizenship, for being Jewish. The land ownership laws are also extremely racist in Israel.

I don't know what relevance Arab states have to the topic.

Simply saying "it has its faults" is a ridiculous understatement. Apartheid South Africa also had its faults, and it doesn't come near Israel's level of terrorism and oppression and illegal policies. It's irrelevant whether it's free compared to Arab states, that doesn't change the fact it's an outlaw, racist, terrorist state that refuses to follow the law.



DerfelCadarn wrote:

Spare me the moral rubbish, please. Just take a look at the history of most of the currently extant states and tell me what proportion of states had been created as a result of non-armed efforts. Just take the UK. The Romans raped the Celts, the Saxons raped the romanised Celts and their savage northern cousins and they raped the Romans too, in fact they raped them out of cloudy Albion, then the Norse went to what later became Normandy to rape a tad bit there and then they went to cloudy Albion because the Saxons were in need of some raping, and they got it. How is it that you don't question any of these steps and the criminality of Romans, Saxons and Normans?

Israel is an established state that has a bright future in front of it. The future was paid in blood, the blood of the belligerents and in that regard it is no different from most other countries. Tell you, Palestine does not offer the west much. Israel has a sufficient degree of development and control to serve as an ally worth keeping and there is no reason why the west should not help such an ally so long as it is expedient to do so. But oh wait, I'm so foolish, I should have known that, apparently, the Jews control the world and they're running the west. Pardon me, obviously there is vast evidence for something so implausible and I wouldn't go so far as to question the validity of bullshit theories a conspiracy junkies on acid dreamt up, that I wouldn't.


Israel was chosen by the US to be a military base and surrogate state in the Middle East. So the US fully funded Israel's army and gave it billions of dollars annually to help it develop. It's development isn't because of the amazing work of the Israelis, the US is responsible. The blacks in apartheid South Africa also did not offer the west much. But the whites, and the apartheid regime did, it was a great military power thanks to the US. And the US was it's number one ally, funding it's military much like it does Israel's. And both apartheid states carry out orders from their godfather.

So, I'm assuming you also think we should have kept supporting apartheid South Africa, cause it benefits the west. And we should continue supporting every brutal dictatorship and police state in the world, because it benefits the west? International law, human rights, basic human morality really isn't a factor for you, is it? The fact that Israel is one of the worst terrorist states, refuses to obey the law, and continues to keep Palestinians living like animals is irrelevant? Well we're not on the same page here, I think Israel's policies towards the land it continues to illegally occupy and the Palestinians that live there is disgusting because I believe human beings should have some level of rights and dignity, I couldn't care less about the west's interests.

I have no idea what this random Jewish conspiracy thing you brought up has to do with anything. Like orangeflute, and lots of others, you play the antisemitism card to distract people from the real issue.


Israel is not a apartheid state, nor a terrorist state, mainly because 1- It has not committed any acts of segregation of public goods based upon race, and, quite the contrary allowed Arabs to be citizens of Israel, and 2- It has not committed any acts which may be defined as ‘terrorism’, all acts are carried out with the intentions of defending themselves and their homeland from foreign aggression and domestic terrorism (or, as you would call them, brave guerrilla cobaters waging battle against evil foriegn agression). It is only because they are successful that they may be labelled, as you would say ‘terrorist’. You attack of the Israel is a typical leftist criticism, making me feel quite ashamed to be part of that particular movement, repeating the same accusation and deaf to pro-Zionist argument. You attack us pro-Zionist as having no other proof beside playing the Holocaust card, all the while doing what is practically the same, bringing up several unfortunate events resultant of the war (there will always be civilian casualties in war) and then expanding that to its logical extreme, and then say: ‘Behold, Israel is evil!’ Though Israel is not perfect, at least they do not publically announced that they wish destruction and woe upon several foreign countries, denouncing them as either evil or spawn of Satan, in the good ol’ fashion way a nation that has never advanced ideologically or technologically since the Crusade Era can. Additionally, what is wrong with helping out Israel? Though, admittedly, less than three billion dollars are spent annually to give Israel military aid, the country is surrounded by nations with more money, manpower, and guns than Israel. It is only, as you would say, just if they were allowed some aid in their struggle.
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Posted 6/1/10

jandarujora wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


jandarujora wrote:

Israel was illegal from its inception, carved up completely from one-sided interests. It's sickening how the US and EU continue to prop up this rogue state like indentured servants.


Every country in the Middle East was drawn up by the Brits and Frenchs because they thought the shape look pretty, why are you not disgusted at that? Or the fact that Kurds do not have a nation of their own, whist being oppressed in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran? And what interest do we have in Israel, the only country there without oil?


Fact is there is no point in America supporting Israel, yet they do and will continue to, even without having oil. You forget that AIPAC is among the largest and most influential lobbies and interest groups in America (always in the top five priorities with both Democrats and Republicans), with branches reaching all 50 US States and financial contributions to just about every Congressman. In other words, they're going to get just about whatever they want because money talks. You think the Kurds or anyone else have that same kind of representation to have their own nation, even if they are rightfully entitled to one?


Fact two: We are also supporting Taiwan and South Korea when we have no business there. AIPAC is among the largest lobby because of its ability to organise. If the Arab American wants to be recognised too, they should try to get more members to lobbies working on their behalf. That is the whole bleedin' point of a lobby, to accomplish an agenda by convincing the government to do so. The AARP is also one of the largest lobbies in the United State, and all the Politicians in the world tend to be on the greying side. I don't suppose you think that there is an international conspiracy of old people. To the final point about Kurds... THEY DON'T HAVE A NATION. And in those nations they are settled in, the policies of those country are different from ours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_lobby_in_the_United_States

See, Arab Lobby. If more Arabs join in on it, and work the system, then there isn't any room for complaint on your behalf, but, as it stands, Arabs are not as interested in Politics so much as business and assimilation, seeing as many are newly immigrated to this nation.
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Posted 6/1/10
I think there is a lot of hate for Israel because people are misinformed and think emotionally. Rhetoric would say that Israel is persecuting Palestinians and making them live in concentration camps. This is false, but it plays on people's compassion and manipulates their thinking. I think some ignore the good in Israel because they'd rather listen to the racist and terrorist Arab nations who spout nothing but trash towards Israel and want their destruction. People don't realize the pressure Israel is under. They have to share land with a group of people who are governed by monsters that want to eradicate the Jews and destroy Israel. They have Hezbollah to the north that say they are grateful for Israel because Jews will flock to it, and thus it will be easier for them to kill the Jews because they won't have to hunt for them. Then you have Iran... Run by moronic clerics who call America and Israel the great and little satan, they have an apocalyptic complex and a thirst for blood. Israel is surrounded by monstrous organizations and I think some people would rather listen to them than listen to Israel.
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