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Posted 6/17/10

DrifterZ0 wrote:



You are biased, throughout history Islam was an icon of violence and conquest. From the late dark ages, to the fall of Constantinople until the present times. I don't think such religion who had such reputation of violence deserves to be called a religion of peace. The Ottoman empire was well known for waging war against the West.

Anyways, I think you should rather try to start downsizing your accusations. I will not hesitate to use insults the next time.


Actually you are the biased one singling out any single religion as violent.

If we are gonna talk human history, especially among any religion, I can say with certainty that almost every religion past is filled with violence which is even revealed within their holy scriptures. Christianity is no angel what with the crusades and the inquisition, mass expulsion of Jews, Judaism, where the Israelities came into the promised land and was divined to slaughter nation after nation living there and this was ok because they were godless people. Islam, what with the Ottoman Empire, and terrorism. Even Buddhism, monks will cut and hurt themselves in protest, or violent civil war between the mostly Buddhist Sinhalese majority and the Hindu Tamil minority Sri Lanka.

Does this mean religion is violence? What about non-religion, there also been violence by those who preach communism, fascism and Nazism. Its the people who preach them and when extremism is allowed to take root. more often violence is allowed in the name of religion.

Rather I believe in my experience especially as I was fortunate to be in the company of noble Christians, intelligent Jews, compassionate Muslims and even generous Buddhist that I know that this statement of any religion being inherently violent is false. Its like saying martial arts are violent considering it can kill people, and has done so many times before in the past, its the people who abuse it which bring violence, but if use wisely, a source of good health and a means of self defence for one self and worth and love ones.
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Posted 6/17/10 , edited 6/17/10

Northboundsnow wrote:



Actually you are the biased one singling out any single religion as violent.



Rather I believe in my experience especially as I was fortunate to be in the company of noble Christians, intelligent Jews, compassionate Muslims and even generous Buddhist that I know that this statement of any religion being inherently violent is false. Its like saying martial arts are violent considering it can kill people, and has done so many times before in the past, its the people who abuse it which bring violence, but if use wisely, a source of good health and a means of self defence for one self and worth and love ones.



THIS!!
I'll go a step further at the risk of going off topic and add that I have many American friends who aren't arrogant parrots of Fox News. Also while Canadians pride themselves as a nation on their polite probity I've known many of my countrymen to be smug, parochial, and downright boorish.

Generalizations are always a mistake.

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Posted 6/17/10 , edited 6/17/10
I personally choose not to respond to ignorance. Those people only goals is to twist and distort what you say and if you notice when you debate them they dont even answer your question or refute you. They just bring up another random complaint which you refute. Then they get desperate and start throwing random insults. It would be good to see some good refuting to valid points though.

Like many has stated this is not a religious issue because there are Jews who take side of the Palestinians who are being put on a forced diet by Israel due to the blockade. Then again Egypt is playing a part in this blockade as well which is predominately muslim and I believe only because they are being funded by the US like Israel. I wish people in the middle east would overthrow these puppets and put patriots back in. I also believe this is another reason why the US despises Iran so much because they are not puppet leaders like many in the middle east. This is the only country who challenges the western hegemony.
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Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/19/10

DrifterZ0 wrote:

You are biased, throughout history Islam was an icon of violence and conquest. From the late dark ages, to the fall of Constantinople until the present times. I don't think such religion who had such reputation of violence deserves to be called a religion of peace. The Ottoman empire was well known for waging war against the West.

Anyways, I think you should rather try to start downsizing your accusations. I will not hesitate to use insults the next time.


Did you look into the teaching itself deeper, not through prejudices and stereotypes around the world and media against us? Islam itself means Peace. From which group the phrase 'Peace be upon you' come from? Do you just mentioned Ottoman Empire were waging wars for religion?

Ottoman Empire invaded Jerusalem and taken control under their empire. At that time, Muslims and Jews were united against Ottoman Army to leave Jerusalem. So just because the majority of Ottoman Empire is muslims , doesn't mean they're the representative of Islam. The majority of Japanese Empire is holding Shintoism. They were invading major part of China which is the majority hold Buddhism, does that mean Japanese's invasion is the war of Shintoism vs Buddhism? The majority of US citizens is Christian, doesn't mean they're the representative of Christian when they invading, pillaging and massacring the nations around the world throughout decades.

It'll be nice of you if you tell me directly what accusation I've made. Native Americans were massacred and became slave is the fact of history that created US. Nobody should accuse Islam is the icon of violence as nobody accuse Catholic is the icon of pedophile. If we look both religion deeper and willing to learn other faith with the pure intention of knowledge, both of those claims are wrong. Peace be upon you and all of us.
Posted 6/19/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DrifterZ0 wrote:

You are biased, throughout history Islam was an icon of violence and conquest. From the late dark ages, to the fall of Constantinople until the present times. I don't think such religion who had such reputation of violence deserves to be called a religion of peace. The Ottoman empire was well known for waging war against the West.

Anyways, I think you should rather try to start downsizing your accusations. I will not hesitate to use insults the next time.


Did you look into the teaching itself deeper, not through prejudices and stereotypes around the world and media against us? Islam itself means Peace. From which group the phrase 'Peace be upon you' come from? Do you just mentioned Ottoman Empire were waging wars for religion?

Ottoman Empire invaded Jerusalem and taken control under their empire. At that time, Muslims and Jews were united against Ottoman Army to leave Jerusalem. So Ottoman Empire is considered as muslims because their majority, doesn't mean they're representative of Islam. The majority of Japanese Empire is holding Shintoism. They were invaded major part of China which is the majority hold Buddhism, does that mean Japanese's invasion is the war of Shintoism vs Buddhism?

It'll be nice of you if you tell me directly what accusation I've made. Native Americans were massacred and became slave is the fact of history that created US. Nobody should accuse Islam is the icon of violence as nobody accuse Catholic is the icon of pedophile. If we look both religion deeper and willing to learn other faith with the pure intention of knowledge, both of those claims are wrong. Peace be upon you and all of us.


I was referring to your accusations towards morality in Christian society. Of course, to a more secluded and strict society like that of Islam. With your media controlled by the government we don't hear much from you. There we can't make any good comparisons in how moral and immoral your people are compared to ours. If you say Islam is better I will disagree and will always disagree. I seen the shit your fellow muslim did in the southern parts of our country. It is the "true color" of Islam if you will have to ask me!
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Posted 6/19/10

DrifterZ0 wrote:

I was referring to your accusations towards morality in Christian society. Of course, to a more secluded and strict society like that of Islam. With your media controlled by the government we don't hear much from you. There we can't make any good comparisons in how moral and immoral your people are compared to ours. If you say Islam is better I will disagree and will always disagree. I seen the shit your fellow muslim did in the southern parts of our country. It is the "true color" of Islam if you will have to ask me!


Did you really read my post? lol. Accusing me of something I didn't accuse?

The majority of US citizens is Christian, doesn't mean they're the representative of Christian when they invading, pillaging and massacring the nations around the world throughout decades. You should learn the reason why there is war in your country. The MILF is in war because they demanding freedom and separation from your country. It has nothing to do with religion, the same goes with Israel.
Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/19/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DrifterZ0 wrote:

I was referring to your accusations towards morality in Christian society. Of course, to a more secluded and strict society like that of Islam. With your media controlled by the government we don't hear much from you. There we can't make any good comparisons in how moral and immoral your people are compared to ours. If you say Islam is better I will disagree and will always disagree. I seen the shit your fellow muslim did in the southern parts of our country. It is the "true color" of Islam if you will have to ask me!


Did you really read my post? lol. Accusing me of something I didn't accuse?

The majority of US citizens is Christian, doesn't mean they're the representative of Christian when they invading, pillaging and massacring the nations around the world throughout decades. You should learn the reason why there is war in your country. The MILF is in war because they demanding freedom and separation from your country. It has nothing to do with religion, the same goes with Israel.


MILF are nothing but mere terrorists and pests. If you will come here to the Philippines you will see the shit they are doing. From their all out war they wage for not signing their MOAD. Killing civilians, destroying properties they are worthless garbage. They are only good at propaganda and abush nothing else. If they can bring back our national hero back from the dead they could. But where are they now anyway? Heh, our military butchered them. Their leaders and generals are nothing but cowards. Our military of course, one of the finest anti-insurgent fighters in the region silently decimated the cowards. I think these pests are nowhere different to the ones who are being exterminated in Israel.

Israel just like in our situation is just fighting for the sovereignty of their nation. Historically, they have their right and have gained their independence. And like any other nations they "deserve" to be recognized. To those who doesn't want to, they can just suck it up. Israel now is a sovereign nation which is governed by laws. Such nation has the right to defend itself when is attacked or threatened by any kind or any means of force. But of course, the uneducated opposition does not understand that...
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Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/19/10

DrifterZ0 wrote:


MILF are nothing but mere terrorists and pests. If you will come here to the Philippines you will see the shit they are doing. From their all out war they wage for not signing their MOAD. Killing civilians, destroying properties they are worthless garbage. They are only good at propaganda and abush nothing else. If they can bring back our national hero back from the dead they could. But where are they now anyway? Heh, our military butchered them. Their leaders and generals are nothing but cowards. Our military of course, one of the finest anti-insurgent fighters silently decimated the cowards. I think these pests are nowhere different to the ones who are being exterminated in Israel.

Israel just like in our situation is just fighting for the sovereignty of their nation. Historically, they have their right and have gained their independence. And like any other nations they "deserve" to be recognized. To those who doesn't want to, they can just suck it up. Israel now is a sovereign nation which is governed laws.


That doesn't mean the act of MILF is the act of muslims, that's just generalizations. If you thinking that way, then anyone can make the same generalization by associate Catholic with sexual abuse on children because of the priest's crimes. So why you generalize muslims as violence when you did not even the culprit of child abuse were committed by priest, bishop, cleric and other high positioned people in Christian?

It's indeed will be justified if there is no international laws. But since we have international laws, the action of Israeli of getting their lands by killing other inhabitant of that land is something that cannot be recognized.
Posted 6/19/10


I don't really think Israel had really intentions of expanding. If they do they would have done it long ago. With the military capabilities they have, Israel might have been a bigger nation compared to it was today. It is obvious that the recent conflicts that Israel was fighting was within its borders, against Palestine. In war atrocities is evident however I do not think the Israelis are not doing anything to prevent or even do measures to reduce them.
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Posted 6/19/10

DrifterZ0 wrote:


I don't really think Israel had really intentions of expanding. If they do they would have done it long ago. With the military capabilities they have, Israel might have been a bigger nation compared to it was today. It is obvious that the recent conflicts that Israel was fighting was within its borders, against Palestine. In war atrocities is evident however I do not think the Israelis are not doing anything to prevent or even do measures to reduce them.


Here is the list of Israel's expansion on their settlement. The latest one is when Israel announced more than 3,000 homes in the land that UN had said to be illegal for Israel. At the same time, the vice-president of US, Joe Biden, arrived in Israel and said the announcement of expanding settlement is insult to US when tehy trying to negotiate peace deals again.



As I stated before, the land doesn't belong to certain of group that they can easily do whatever they want there and increasing the amount of casualties. The land all over the world is for everyone from god.
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Posted 6/19/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


DrifterZ0 wrote:


I don't really think Israel had really intentions of expanding. If they do they would have done it long ago. With the military capabilities they have, Israel might have been a bigger nation compared to it was today. It is obvious that the recent conflicts that Israel was fighting was within its borders, against Palestine. In war atrocities is evident however I do not think the Israelis are not doing anything to prevent or even do measures to reduce them.


Here is the list of Israel's expansion on their settlement. The latest one is when Israel announced more than 3,000 homes in the land that UN had said to be illegal for Israel. At the same time, the vice-president of US, Joe Biden, arrived in Israel and said the announcement of expanding settlement is insult to US when tehy trying to negotiate peace deals again.



As I stated before, the land doesn't belong to certain of group that they can easily do whatever they want there and increasing the amount of casualties. The land all over the world is for everyone from god.


So land is for everyone, right? Well, I think I might just come into your backyard, and build myself a little house. It is my land too, is it not? And it is entitled to me by God right?
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Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/19/10

orangeflute wrote:

So land is for everyone, right? Well, I think I might just come into your backyard, and build myself a little house. It is my land too, is it not? And it is entitled to me by God right?


Among with the other functions as land, people using it to live with each other. However, there is agreement between those people who are using that piece of land in the north or south or every land on the earth for some people to live, the agreement that people would buy from others with legal transaction and certificate. If you breach that agreement, then we can considered you as criminal who are not following the law of owning land.

Why I feel like I responding to a troll? Peace be upon you.
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Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/20/10
Unlike some, I don't pretend that Isreal is anything other than eager co-beligerant (rather than a helpless victim). That said I see a lot of onesided assertions against the legality of that Nation's existence which I take exception to.

British Palestine, after years of Palestinian Guerrilla and Terrorist acts (by the both of the people would become Palestinians and Israelis)
was to be divided between the two peoples and handed over. The British and the French (not mention everyonelse in the middle east) were already making plans to drive the Israelis out. In the event the attackers did so poorly that they lost their own territories to the Israeli self defence. Since that time, every time someone has attacked Israeli they've lost a hill or a riverbank out of their territory that represented a strategic defence point. The plan was to leave no Israelis to cry about being losers but becuase the shoe is on the other foot everyone likes to protray the Israelis as unmitigated bad guys.

Let me tell you something. If the Royal Canadian armed forces lined up all their Toronto based Artilliary batteries and started shelling Buffalo for shits and giggles, the American response would make the Israeli incursion into the West Bank look like a model of patience and restraint.

I'm sure also if CF troops took off their uniforms and hid among the rest of us so their Carl Gustavs might have a chance firing at the ass of an M1 Abrams we'd have eaten our unfair share of 105 HESH rounds too.

but everything is Israel's fault right?



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Posted 6/19/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

So land is for everyone, right? Well, I think I might just come into your backyard, and build myself a little house. It is my land too, is it not? And it is entitled to me by God right?


Among with the other functions as land, people using it to live with each other. However, there is agreement between those people who are using that piece of land in the north or south or every land on the earth for some people to live, the agreement that people would buy from others with legal transaction and certificate. If you breach that agreement, then we can considered you as criminal who are not following the law of owning land.

Why I feel like I responding to a troll? Peace be upon you.


If its God, why would I need an agreement with man? Likewise, if every parcel of earth belongs to everyone, and now you are saying that there needs to be an agreement between the person who wants to use it and this mysterious other entity, does that not imply that this other entity owns the coveted land? And if that land belongs to this entity, does that mean it is no longer everyone's land? Your logic is of the most absurd kind, almost as foolish as the Book of Mormon or as a man somehow able to go to the skies with a horse-bird-man, but peace upon you and your family as well.
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Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/19/10

orangeflute wrote:

If its God, why would I need an agreement with man? Likewise, if every parcel of earth belongs to everyone, and now you are saying that there needs to be an agreement between the person who wants to use it and this mysterious other entity, does that not imply that this other entity owns the coveted land? And if that land belongs to this entity, does that mean it is no longer everyone's land? Your logic is of the most absurd kind, almost as foolish as the Book of Mormon or as a man somehow able to go to the skies with a horse-bird-man, but peace upon you and your family as well.


It seems you've misunderstood my points. The earth is created along with the beings on it. The human use the lands with the concern of others, while animals with brute force. The humans are the one who use transaction and several agreement to claim this land is use for farming and another land is used for living. The earth created by god for the human's sake. So it is up to people to use it with concern of others, not for god.

See with this kind of respect from this kind of atheist? I will be responding with the same manner if you keep continuing without addressing to the topic.
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