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Bankai! BLEACH coming to Crunchyroll!
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25 / F / Oklahoma
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Posted 6/6/10

severancepay wrote:

I understand that Crunchyroll.com wants to help get Bleach legally streamed but that first paragraph in the original post is a farce I'm afraid. It states that Tv Tokyo can finally start making money off the distribution of Bleach. If I'm not mistaken, isn't Bleach already free? Is it not publically broadcasted in Japan on a free network? The notion of Tv Tokyo finally making money from "us" since Japanese residents view it on a free network is a farce. I know that Dattebayo was distributing it illegally, but they were not doing it for monetary gain and usually forwarded any + donations to charities. Dattebayo was a respectfull and professional fansub. This about us "Finally" paying for bleach is an insult to my intelligence.

Dattebayo was distributing something for free internationally to display their fansubbing work that was already free but not distributed internationally. I don't like to insinuate and I appreciate all that crunchyroll has done, but this is just another way the corporate agenda can legally extort us viewers. It's not about licensing.. It's about money.


I don't think you get it.

Watching it on TV brings in profit. Legal ad-based streaming (as well as subscribing on here) also brings in money. But getting it from any illegal source doesn't.
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Posted 6/6/10
The profit you speak of is marginal and it is to crunchyroll not to Tv Tokyo. They are paid to have their show on TV in short they already got paid. This is small if compared to that of their DVD sales which can not be possible overseas if it wasn't for fansubbers that established the foothold on this american cultural phenomenon. Please argue your symantics in another forum.
cgreve 
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Posted 6/6/10
I'm very happy, overall, that Bleach is coming to CR. I hope that CR can continue to stand as an excellent model for the digital distribution of media. However, as I said in my comments when I signed the petition, I am deeply saddened that Dattebayo will not be joining this project. They have played a major part in popularizing anime like Bleach and Naruto and they have shown nothing but the utmost respect for the creators of the anime they sub. Hopefully, Viz will reconsider their position and bring DB along, showing them the gratitude that is due to a group that has only made Viz more successful. Still, if we really are fans of anime like Bleach, we should continue to show our support through patronage of CR's streams, even if the subs aren't the best. It's a small sacrifice for the greater good of the vitality of the anime industry.

To the people talking about how DB doesn't release in HD quality: seriously, I see absolutely no difference in non-CG anime like Bleach and Naruto when it's in SD as opposed to 720p. On CR, the only difference I see when watching Naruto in SD and 480p as opposed to 720 is how my browser handles the full-screen.
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Posted 6/6/10

severancepay wrote:

The profit you speak of is marginal and it is to crunchyroll not to Tv Tokyo. They are paid to have their show on TV in short they already got paid. This is small if compared to that of their DVD sales which can not be possible overseas if it wasn't for fansubbers that established the foothold on this american cultural phenomenon. Please argue your symantics in another forum.


"Marginal"? But it is there, and that's all it takes to counter you saying that their claim is 'farce'.

I'm not arguing anything about fansubs, but they will be making more money with this Simulcast than they would be otherwise, and that's the point. Fansubs have already served their purpose.

And "symantics"? I was arguing the point that it wouldn't support TV Tokyo at all. My argument belongs in this topic.
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Posted 6/6/10

onepiece_fan wrote:


severancepay wrote:

The profit you speak of is marginal and it is to crunchyroll not to Tv Tokyo. They are paid to have their show on TV in short they already got paid. This is small if compared to that of their DVD sales which can not be possible overseas if it wasn't for fansubbers that established the foothold on this american cultural phenomenon. Please argue your symantics in another forum.


"Marginal"? But it is there, and that's all it takes to counter you saying that their claim is 'farce'.

I'm not arguing anything about fansubs, but they will be making more money with this Simulcast than they would be otherwise, and that's the point. Fansubs have already served their purpose.

And "symantics"? I was arguing the point that it wouldn't support TV Tokyo at all. My argument belongs in this topic.


Yeah symantics.. Seemed like you were grasping at straws to make a point. The only point here is that we've been extorted as anime enthusiasts. The whole finally getting to make money is a facade and the fact that they pointed that out is clear to they true intentions. Tv Tokyo was already making money, more than enough they just want more. They were not losing money there is no claim to that in any way, this is why fansubbers are not hunted to extinction.
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Posted 6/6/10

severancepay wrote: I understand that Crunchyroll.com wants to help get Bleach legally streamed but that first paragraph in the original post is a farce I'm afraid. It states that Tv Tokyo can finally start making money off the distribution of Bleach. If I'm not mistaken, isn't Bleach already free? Is it not publically broadcasted in Japan on a free network?


TV Tokyo is not a public broadcasting network, they are a commercial broadcasting network. They do not broadcast it "for free" - advertisers pay for the broadcast in order to get their advertisements to the audience. You have confused not charging the audience with giving it away for free.

The advertisers on TV Tokyo definitely did not pay to show the series to people in the United States or Europe or Latin America.


severancepay wrote: The notion of TV Tokyo finally making money from "us" since Japanese residents view it on a free network is a farce.


They make less and less money from the free to air broadcasts, because of so much ripping off and distribution of the RAWs. That cuts the broadcast ratings in Japan which cuts the amount that the advertisers pay to advertise on them.

They used to make more money from international distribution via sales of DVDs, but because of widespread bootleg fansub distribution on illegal bootleg streaming sites, sales of anime DVDs have been dropping.

This is why the number of anime shows made have dropped from 100 five years ago to half of that today.


severancepay wrote: I know that DB was distributing it illegally, but they were not doing it for monetary gain ...


Whether DB was doing it for monetary gain or not says something about DB ... but it does not offer supporting fans a way to support the work of the anime creators.


severancepay wrote: This about us "Finally" paying for bleach is an insult to my intelligence.


Why is the truth an insult to your intelligence?


severancepay wrote: DB was distributing something for free internationally to display their fansubbing work that was already free but not distributed internationally.


This is false. Bleach has been distributed internationally since 2006. It has not been distributed at the same time as in Tokyo. But the international broadcast distribution is listed at the Anime News Network page:


Vintage:
2004-10-05 (ongoing)
2006-09-08 to 2009-10-11 (Canada, YTV - Bionix [Episodes 1-109])
2006-09-09 (USA, Cartoon Network - Adult Swim)
2007-01-07 (Malaysia, TV3)
2007-04-16 (Philippines, Gma Network[5pm])
2007-07-12 (Spain, Canal Buzz)
2007-09-01 (France, MCM)
2007-09-12 (Poland, Hyper)
2007-10-22 (Spain, Cuatroº)
2008-01-26 (Animax Hungary)
2008-01-26 (Animax Romania)
2008-05-06 (Animax Brazil)
2008-05-06 (Animax Latin America)
2008-05-06 to 2009-04-28 (Animax Latin America - Eps 1 to 52)
2009-06-23 (starhub E-city)
2009-12-18 (Animax Asia)



severancepay wrote: I don't like to insinuate and I appreciate all that crunchyroll has done, but this is just another way the corporate agenda can legally extort us viewers. It's not about licensing.. It's about money.


Of course it is about money. Money to pay the people who do the work of creating the anime. Crunchyroll streaming it allows supporting fans to get their money to the creators of the work far closer to the time of production and with a far bigger share of the money going to the producer.

Saying "it is not about licensing, it is about money" is insane. The point about licensing is to make sure that people who copy the work get the agreement of the people who make it. It is the people who make it who get to decide whether to allow is to be copied for free, or whether people have to pay to copy it.
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Posted 6/6/10
I'm sorely disappointed that once again Crunchyroll is going to take a decent anime, and bastardize it for the masses. Well, in actuality, they'll be supporting Viz, who bastardizes it. They claim to be a place for fans, and in some aspects they are. Mostly though it just seems that they're a place for idiots who haven't really supported anime at all to get in on something that's a "fad". Its agitating.

The fact once again DB got screwed out of something is rather upsetting as well. Legality issues aside, that realistically don't matter AT ALL, they we're the best. Hands down. They provided fast subs, and the best quality around. I dislike that they get bad rap because of the legality issues. Guess what? Most of you have downloaded something in your life. Illegally no less. Guess what? I'm sure people that work at these licensing companies have too. Get off your high horse and shut up.

The argument is about the quality. Everyone who watched Naruto at DB and eventually watched it here argued the same thing then, as we do now. We don't care WHERE we get it. Shit, even DB doesn't. It's about quality. Viz/Funimation/whatever licensing group you want to say, does not provide the masses with an acceptable dub, or even subs. That doesn't mean they can't do it ( Personally, I thought the FMA dubs we're quite well done.) Every sub/dub they seem to put out they try to cater to people who they think have no idea how Japan, or the Japanese language works. They dumb everything down. They translate things with childish implications, or soften curse words. Just to reach a larger, more marketable audience, which directly ties into "How much money can we get?"

Seriously, how many of you have been to a movie that was PG-13 and you just KNEW that it should of been R rated? It's just like that. Its fucking aggravating.

DB has provided excellent service, for several years, and for licensing companies to completely ignore that is just, well, ignorant. The fact that that they ignore DB advice/support/offers to HELP with the subbing is ludicrous. Clearly, these people have talent. Real talent. Enough to start a fansubbing craze. Every group wanted to be as respected as DB was. Yeah, they could be assholes, and it was funny, but they got the job done. These people listened to their fans. They understood how things worked. THEY were fans themselves.

That's what made DB amazing. That's what made them what they are.

That is why this site will never be what DB was. It's just a pale shadow biting off what others had. Taking what they want and kissing the asses of the people who make the decisions. It's downright depressing.
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53 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
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Posted 6/6/10

severancepay wrote:

The profit you speak of is marginal and it is to crunchyroll not to Tv Tokyo.


More than half of Crunchyroll's revenue is paid to the content owners in Japan. That is on a royalty basis, so the content owners in Japan get paid even if Crunchyroll does not make a profit at all.

SO "it is to crunchyroll not to TV Tokyo" is simply false.


They are paid to have their show on TV in short they already got paid.


TV advertising revenues alone rarely are enough to pay for the full cost of producing an anime. Maybe OnePiece, but if you look at Anime News Networks listing of anime shows that are among the top rating shows in Japan, Naruto and Bleach do not show up. Anime series have long relied on other sources of revenue to cover their costs - DVD sales, merchandise sales, Drama CD's, soundtrack sales, and international license earnings.


This is small if compared to that of their DVD sales


Of course its small compared to DVD sales. Crunchyroll has only been doing legit streaming for less than two years. DVD anime sales started shortly after the start of DVD sales in the middle of the 90's.

But DVD sales are shrinking. Streaming revenues are growing. No industry with shrinking revenues in its existing distribution channels can survive unless it finds new distribution channels to take their place.


... which can not be possible overseas if it wasn't for fansubbers that established the foothold on this american cultural phenomenon. Please argue your symantics in another forum.


No, the real big expansion in the market for anime followed the appearance of anime on Sci-Fi and the Cartoon Network. That was not caused by fansubbers - fansubbing in the early 1990's was nothing like as widespread, because it was so much harder to do it using videotape. That was caused by the fact that they were looking for inexpensive content to provide new programming at a cost that their advertising revenues and payments from cable channels could cover. Dubbing an existing anime was much cheaper than producing new shows themselves.

fansubbers may have helped expand the total number of people who watch anime in this past decade, but since we know that market sales have dropped from around $500m in 2003 to less than $300m at present, that expansion in the total number of people watching has been connected with a drop in the total number of people paying.

And if people stop paying, the anime stops being made.

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Posted 6/6/10

agila61 wrote:

Pero su ya ilegal al "fansub".

Su hasta cada grupo del fansub qué a hacer cuando hay un lanzamiento autorizado en su área. La regla general es, si discrepa alguien, ellos puede formar su propio grupo del fansub y lo hace ellos mismos.

Y los fansubs pueden tener una audiencia, pero que no paga nada a la gente que hace los trabajos de verdad, tan allí no es ninguna manera que puede ser llamado un mercado.

La solución verdadera es permitir subtítulos contribuidos en Crunchyroll, para no limitar los subtítulos apenas a los subtítulos en inglés oficiales cargados por TV Tokio y Studio Pierrot. Pero las compañías escucharán solamente la audiencia que paga, no la audiencia que miran copias ilegales.


¿Acaso quiere decir que TV Tokio y Studio Pierrot escucharían la petición de permitir subtítulos contribuidos, si hubiera suficiente gente en Latino América que lo pida? Eso es algo contradictorio, ¿no lo cree? ¿Cómo se podría conseguir una amplia audiencia de habla hispana, si no se tiene subtítulos en español?
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Posted 6/6/10

pretzdothack wrote:

They claim to be a place for fans, and in some aspects they are.


Especially for supporting fans, those who want to reward the people that make the works that they enjoy.


Legality issues aside, that realistically don't matter AT ALL, they we're the best. Hands down. They provided fast subs, and the best quality around.


They did not provide a way to support the people who actually made the anime. And that is why "legality issues aside" is ignoring the real issue. "Legality issues" is why they could not be set up in a way to support the people who actually make the anime.

Its not about moralizing, its about some people like to support the people who do the stuff they enjoy. Supporting music fans like to spend money on concerts and albums from their favorite artists. Why is it surprising that some anime fans have the same feelings?


Viz/Funimation/whatever licensing group you want to say, does not provide the masses with an acceptable dub, or even subs.


I think this is not true. Nozomi does a very nice sub of Maria-sama ga Miteru. It is every bit as good or better than the Lilliliscious sub. Of course, it is not the default sub, it is the alternate sub.

The way we got that was supporting fans who are customers of Nozomi's DVD's let Nozomi know that we wanted it.

Lots of companies doing subs have gotten better (I don't know about dubs because I rarely listen to them). But that is only supporting fans lobbying that has done that.

Imagine how TV Tokyo reacted to all of those petition messages from viewers of DB's bootlegs: "Dear TV Tokyo, we watch a ripped-off copy of your show and really enjoy it, though we do not help you cover the cost of making it. Please spend money this way to make us happy".


They translate things with childish implications, or soften curse words. Just to reach a larger, more marketable audience, which directly ties into "How much money can we get?"


Doesn't anyone ever read any previous messages? There are no serious curse words in the big shonen shows that air in the late afternoon or early evening. "Damn" and "Those Bastards!", maybe, but no f-bombs. DB adds those because it knows that its audience prefers subtitles that are not as accurate but are more "exciting".


DB has provided excellent service, for several years,
while being unable to provide a way for supporting fans to support the original creators.

If it was just the torrents, they might be able to continue the fansub. Its the millions of on illegal leach streaming sites that makes it impossible for the legit streaming sites to ignore.

But you act as if the scumbag leech streamer sites do not exist, even though for years they kept uploading DB's fansubs to free streaming sites to keep leech streaming them - and despite DB's repeated demands that they stop.

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Posted 6/6/10

ScaroDj wrote:

¿Acaso quiere decir que TV Tokio y Studio Pierrot escucharían la petición de permitir subtítulos contribuidos, si hubiera suficiente gente en Latino América que lo pida?


Please excuse me, I have to get to sleep and it takes me a long time to try to write in Spanish. So I apologize that this is mostly in English.

I do not know if it would be enough. Its the only thing that might work, but there is no guarantee.


Eso es algo contradictorio, ¿no lo cree? ¿Cómo se podría conseguir una amplia audiencia de habla hispana, si no se tiene subtítulos en español?


This is why I expressed it as being member-contributed subtitles, because that way of getting multiple language support is also of interest to some English-speaking fans as well. For example, some English-speaking fans think that the Viz-subtitle is too "stiff", and could form a group to provide a subtitle that is closer to the style that DB has been doing.

Puede ser que sea tan posiblemente la fundación para una coalición de intereses múltiples. No sabe para seguro, pero posiblemente.
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Posted 6/7/10
wow, thats cool..

im looking forward to it..

i love bleach...
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Posted 6/7/10
Awesome. Bleach is such a cool show, great to have it on Crunchyroll
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Posted 6/7/10
yaaayyy it was bout time i can't wait! <3
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Posted 6/7/10
This is actually going to keep me signed up as a member, since having three main shows to watch clinches it for me.

So ty CR
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