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Jesus and Muhammad
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Posted 6/11/10
I think it is largely a cultural thing, since, if I'm not mistaken, Christianity was already deeply cemented into western society/culture by the time Mohammed was born and became a prophet.



digs wrote:
It's nice to see that someone wrote a book. As an ex-atheist should I write one about how the philosophy has holes and cannot be true?


Plenty of people have already beaten you to that.
Posted 6/11/10

digs wrote:

It's nice to see that someone wrote a book. As an ex-atheist should I write one about how the philosophy has holes and cannot be true? This isn't the place for flame baiting
And how's that not flame baiting? As a form of passive aggressive personality trait known as "acting sullen".

And while a philosopher has to question one's own beliefs through logic justification and clear reasoning, to believe the existence of a perfect God as the creator of the universe is both unrealistic and an impossibility. When correlation isn't necessary causation, thereby a baseless claim of anything metaphysically related, has no real relation on everything physical until proven otherwise.
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Posted 6/11/10 , edited 6/11/10
there is a lot of uninvited guest here... there is a topic and all they throw are rubbish. they want this thread to be locked down. typical
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Posted 6/11/10

digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?
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Posted 6/11/10 , edited 6/11/10
[it's nice to see that someone wrote a book. As an ex-atheist should I write one about how the philosophy has holes and cannot be true? This isn't the place for flame baiting ]

digs stop lying you never were an atheist nobody gets up one morning and decide to reject 400 years of scientific discovery and believe in nutcase pseudo science delusional craziness and believe in system which disregard personal responsibility and show lack of empathy to his fellow human beings claiming they are sinful, depraved, unable to be good and deserved to die because of the actions of adam and eve according to the bible.
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Posted 6/11/10 , edited 6/11/10

alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Posted 6/11/10

alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


digs wrote:

Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Spirit? Salvation? How do you prove the existence of the metaphysic? Thereby justifying that any of your claims was in fact true by necessity.
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Posted 6/11/10

DomFortress wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


digs wrote:

Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Spirit? Salvation? How do you prove the existence of the metaphysic? Thereby justifying that any of your claims was in fact true by necessity.


This thread isn't about the existence of God. But how can you disprove the metaphysics? I have seen God work in my own life and that's enough for me. Plus there are out of body experience stories when people had died and been resuscitated. Humans have the greatest capacity for emotion and the highest free will among all creatures, thus we can believe that we have a soul distinct from the consciousness of animals. I can't put a soul in a box or the metaphysical in a room and show it to you, because as its name states the metaphysical is "beyond physical."
Posted 6/11/10

digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


digs wrote:

Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Spirit? Salvation? How do you prove the existence of the metaphysic? Thereby justifying that any of your claims was in fact true by necessity.


This thread isn't about the existence of God. But how can you disprove the metaphysics? I have seen God work in my own life and that's enough for me. Plus there are out of body experience stories when people had died and been resuscitated. Humans have the greatest capacity for emotion and the highest free will among all creatures, thus we can believe that we have a soul distinct from the consciousness of animals. I can't put a soul in a box or the metaphysical in a room and show it to you, because as its name states the metaphysical is "beyond physical."
When you can't claim that the world was certainly created by God, without you first justify the existence of God. While you don't even have factual proof of people really came back alive from being dead. With sociology, I can prove to you that as social animals people can be modified into believing any standards and values, as long as the social process presents itself. That includes your ethnocentrism and metaphysics.
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Posted 6/12/10

digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


digs wrote:

Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Spirit? Salvation? How do you prove the existence of the metaphysic? Thereby justifying that any of your claims was in fact true by necessity.


This thread isn't about the existence of God. But how can you disprove the metaphysics? I have seen God work in my own life and that's enough for me. Plus there are out of body experience stories when people had died and been resuscitated. Humans have the greatest capacity for emotion and the highest free will among all creatures, thus we can believe that we have a soul distinct from the consciousness of animals. I can't put a soul in a box or the metaphysical in a room and show it to you, because as its name states the metaphysical is "beyond physical."


hey, just ignore him. He's been weighed and considered a troll. He always use his irrational bias to bash us.

i want to share this to you- Summa Theologia (i bet you heard this already) by Thomas Aquinas who proved the existence of God without the Bible. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html

Also, there are some readings you can use to prove that Jesus was indeed resurrected with plain text from history. It validates the claim of the Gospel with historical stories... here is the link http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

take time to read those. Besides, Jesus resurrection is not a faith based thing. It is what the first disciples witnessed. What we put our faith on is that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God
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Posted 6/13/10

alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


digs wrote:

Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Spirit? Salvation? How do you prove the existence of the metaphysic? Thereby justifying that any of your claims was in fact true by necessity.


This thread isn't about the existence of God. But how can you disprove the metaphysics? I have seen God work in my own life and that's enough for me. Plus there are out of body experience stories when people had died and been resuscitated. Humans have the greatest capacity for emotion and the highest free will among all creatures, thus we can believe that we have a soul distinct from the consciousness of animals. I can't put a soul in a box or the metaphysical in a room and show it to you, because as its name states the metaphysical is "beyond physical."


hey, just ignore him. He's been weighed and considered a troll. He always use his irrational bias to bash us.

i want to share this to you- Summa Theologia (i bet you heard this already) by Thomas Aquinas who proved the existence of God without the Bible. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html

Also, there are some readings you can use to prove that Jesus was indeed resurrected with plain text from history. It validates the claim of the Gospel with historical stories... here is the link http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

take time to read those. Besides, Jesus resurrection is not a faith based thing. It is what the first disciples witnessed. What we put our faith on is that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God


If you are into philosophy and its relation to religion, it is nice to read Leibnitz ( he argued that universe is ordered in such a a way that there has to be an entity who did it. He said that universe is like a clock mechanism, and the God or The Entity we call God is actually Great Mechanist.), or Kant who actually disapproved every one of 5 ways of Thomas Aquinas, but found his own way to god through ethics.
Even the famous "I think therefore I am" is just another step towards knowing God, not the existentialist statement. People should read what happens after that conclusion, mostly they are putting this statement out of context.
Philosophy until 20th century was closely related to God and knowing him, because every last one of the philosophers from 8th century to 20th century was hard boiled Christian, and theories about knowing god were really popular. Or Muslim - did you know that it was thanks to Muslim philosophers Thomas Aquinas read all the works from Aristotle and came up with his 5 ways of knowing God? (his teacher was famous Muslim philosopher in the times when Muslims occupied what is today Spain).
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Posted 6/13/10

blancer wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


digs wrote:

Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Spirit? Salvation? How do you prove the existence of the metaphysic? Thereby justifying that any of your claims was in fact true by necessity.


This thread isn't about the existence of God. But how can you disprove the metaphysics? I have seen God work in my own life and that's enough for me. Plus there are out of body experience stories when people had died and been resuscitated. Humans have the greatest capacity for emotion and the highest free will among all creatures, thus we can believe that we have a soul distinct from the consciousness of animals. I can't put a soul in a box or the metaphysical in a room and show it to you, because as its name states the metaphysical is "beyond physical."


hey, just ignore him. He's been weighed and considered a troll. He always use his irrational bias to bash us.

i want to share this to you- Summa Theologia (i bet you heard this already) by Thomas Aquinas who proved the existence of God without the Bible. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html

Also, there are some readings you can use to prove that Jesus was indeed resurrected with plain text from history. It validates the claim of the Gospel with historical stories... here is the link http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

take time to read those. Besides, Jesus resurrection is not a faith based thing. It is what the first disciples witnessed. What we put our faith on is that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God


If you are into philosophy and its relation to religion, it is nice to read Leibnitz ( he argued that universe is ordered in such a a way that there has to be an entity who did it. He said that universe is like a clock mechanism, and the God or The Entity we call God is actually Great Mechanist.), or Kant who actually disapproved every one of 5 ways of Thomas Aquinas, but found his own way to god through ethics.
Even the famous "I think therefore I am" is just another step towards knowing God, not the existentialist statement. People should read what happens after that conclusion, mostly they are putting this statement out of context.
Philosophy until 20th century was closely related to God and knowing him, because every last one of the philosophers from 8th century to 20th century was hard boiled Christian, and theories about knowing god were really popular. Or Muslim - did you know that it was thanks to Muslim philosophers Thomas Aquinas read all the works from Aristotle and came up with his 5 ways of knowing God? (his teacher was famous Muslim philosopher in the times when Muslims occupied what is today Spain).


by any chance you read "Sophie's world"? that was the book that awakened my interest in philosophy.

that's the beauty of philosophy. One says this. The other disapproves it. What is amazing is that both point are convincing in a way it take years before you fully understand or atleast, have a stance
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Posted 6/13/10

alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.
2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


ahaha. it's hard when spiritual amnesia attacks you. By the way, do you know the point of salvation in Islam?


digs wrote:

Isn't salvation in Islam just being a good person and keeping tot the 5 pillars?
Spirit? Salvation? How do you prove the existence of the metaphysic? Thereby justifying that any of your claims was in fact true by necessity.


This thread isn't about the existence of God. But how can you disprove the metaphysics? I have seen God work in my own life and that's enough for me. Plus there are out of body experience stories when people had died and been resuscitated. Humans have the greatest capacity for emotion and the highest free will among all creatures, thus we can believe that we have a soul distinct from the consciousness of animals. I can't put a soul in a box or the metaphysical in a room and show it to you, because as its name states the metaphysical is "beyond physical."


hey, just ignore him. He's been weighed and considered a troll. He always use his irrational bias to bash us.

i want to share this to you- Summa Theologia (i bet you heard this already) by Thomas Aquinas who proved the existence of God without the Bible. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html

Also, there are some readings you can use to prove that Jesus was indeed resurrected with plain text from history. It validates the claim of the Gospel with historical stories... here is the link http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html

take time to read those. Besides, Jesus resurrection is not a faith based thing. It is what the first disciples witnessed. What we put our faith on is that we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb of God



so the only prove you have is a book written in the dark ages/middle ages? the gospels contradict each other and are not historical there are 2 different accounts for the alledge ancestors of Joseph the husband of Mary the mother of Jesus and their are NOT back up historical claims example the part where herod ordered the killing of boys2 years old and under NEVER happened. there is no written record of this event


some examples


Matthew


Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event.

When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels. 27:45, 51-53






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