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Jesus and Muhammad
Posted 6/13/10 , edited 6/13/10

alupihan45 wrote:



by any chance you read "Sophie's world"? that was the book that awakened my interest in philosophy.

that's the beauty of philosophy. One says this. The other disapproves it. What is amazing is that both point are convincing in a way it take years before you fully understand or atleast, have a stance
What's so convincing about this contradiction that God's own existence being a state of ambiguity? When you can't use it to solve the Gettier Problem, because it can't be justified in a court of laws.

Also, when Immanuel Kant arrived at the supreme principle of morality strictly through pure human reasoning alone. Whereas Aristotle OTOH defined justice based on the natural purpose of thing's existence. Neither one of those philosophers' theories can be used to measure the moral worth, or the nature of metaphysics.
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Posted 6/13/10

DomFortress wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:



by any chance you read "Sophie's world"? that was the book that awakened my interest in philosophy.

that's the beauty of philosophy. One says this. The other disapproves it. What is amazing is that both point are convincing in a way it take years before you fully understand or atleast, have a stance
What's so convincing about this contradiction that God's own existence being a state of ambiguity? When you can't use it to solve the Gettier Problem, because it can't be justified in a court of laws.

Also, when Immanuel Kant arrived at the supreme principle of morality strictly through pure human reasoning alone. Whereas Aristotle OTOH defined justice based on the natural purpose of thing's existence. Neither one of those philosophers' theories can be used to measure the moral worth, or the nature of metaphysics.


That is exactly the beauty of metaphysics - it is something beyond the experience of "material" world, so whatever is said or denied is done solely with reason and logic, but you can not say that theory is really right or wrong, since it is impossible to prove "materially" (hell if I know English equivalent of the word we use in Croatian".
And when you are talking about god, you can "know" about him only with reason and logic, since he is also "beyond material world". Thus all everything Kant and everyone talked about. they had various ideas about how to know god with what we as humans have beyond "material" - our mind, feelings universal ethics.
Of course, there are philosophers who argued that god (in many books his name is not god, but "superior being". (IDK why are english translators so obsessed with the word to the point of wrong translation, without even the footnote of "it can also be read that way) created this world and then moved on and left us to our own devices, so there is no way to "know" him ("reach" him?), but he left traces in this world so with those traces (life, soul etc) we can say: yeah, he was here once. Funny is that both muslims and christians burned people who thought that way. uhhh... this is kilometers off topic. sry.
Posted 6/13/10

blancer wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

What's so convincing about this contradiction that God's own existence being a state of ambiguity? When you can't use it to solve the Gettier Problem, because it can't be justified in a court of laws.

Also, when Immanuel Kant arrived at the supreme principle of morality strictly through pure human reasoning alone. Whereas Aristotle OTOH defined justice based on the natural purpose of thing's existence. Neither one of those philosophers' theories can be used to measure the moral worth, or the nature of metaphysics.


That is exactly the beauty of metaphysics - it is something beyond the experience of "material" world, so whatever is said or denied is done solely with reason and logic, but you can not say that theory is really right or wrong, since it is impossible to prove "materially" (hell if I know English equivalent of the word we use in Croatian".
And when you are talking about god, you can "know" about him only with reason and logic, since he is also "beyond material world". Thus all everything Kant and everyone talked about. they had various ideas about how to know god with what we as humans have beyond "material" - our mind, feelings universal ethics.
Of course, there are philosophers who argued that god (in many books his name is not god, but "superior being". (IDK why are english translators so obsessed with the word to the point of wrong translation, without even the footnote of "it can also be read that way) created this world and then moved on and left us to our own devices, so there is no way to "know" him ("reach" him?), but he left traces in this world so with those traces (life, soul etc) we can say: yeah, he was here once. Funny is that both muslims and christians burned people who thought that way. uhhh... this is kilometers off topic. sry.
Apologetic or not, that's not good enough to serve as justification. When correlation isn't necessary causation, thereby something immaterial like the human spirit or soul doesn't help cognitive science to understand the human mind, God included. Metaphysic is nothing more than baseless superstition; imaginative and fancy, but utterly unreliable.

Furthermore, when the human mind can become unreliable and irrational towards uncertainty, as proven by the 1979 psychology paper "Judgment under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases." While scientifically there's only the mind and no soul or spirit. Essentially we're only looking at the human mind as what the human brain does, and this mind is subjective to social process via socialization.

Finally, don't lie about what Kant said. When he never attempted to prove the existence of God with his moral reasoning.
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Posted 6/13/10

DomFortress wrote:


blancer wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

What's so convincing about this contradiction that God's own existence being a state of ambiguity? When you can't use it to solve the Gettier Problem, because it can't be justified in a court of laws.

Also, when Immanuel Kant arrived at the supreme principle of morality strictly through pure human reasoning alone. Whereas Aristotle OTOH defined justice based on the natural purpose of thing's existence. Neither one of those philosophers' theories can be used to measure the moral worth, or the nature of metaphysics.


That is exactly the beauty of metaphysics - it is something beyond the experience of "material" world, so whatever is said or denied is done solely with reason and logic, but you can not say that theory is really right or wrong, since it is impossible to prove "materially" (hell if I know English equivalent of the word we use in Croatian".
And when you are talking about god, you can "know" about him only with reason and logic, since he is also "beyond material world". Thus all everything Kant and everyone talked about. they had various ideas about how to know god with what we as humans have beyond "material" - our mind, feelings universal ethics.
Of course, there are philosophers who argued that god (in many books his name is not god, but "superior being". (IDK why are english translators so obsessed with the word to the point of wrong translation, without even the footnote of "it can also be read that way) created this world and then moved on and left us to our own devices, so there is no way to "know" him ("reach" him?), but he left traces in this world so with those traces (life, soul etc) we can say: yeah, he was here once. Funny is that both muslims and christians burned people who thought that way. uhhh... this is kilometers off topic. sry.
Apologetic or not, that's not good enough to serve as justification. When correlation isn't necessary causation, thereby something immaterial like the human spirit or soul doesn't help cognitive science to understand the human mind, God included. Metaphysic is nothing more than baseless superstition; imaginative and fancy, but utterly unreliable.

Furthermore, when the human mind can become unreliable and irrational towards uncertainty, as proven by the 1979 psychology paper "Judgment under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases." While scientifically there's only the mind and no soul or spirit. Essentially we're only looking at the human mind as what the human brain does, and this mind is subjective to social process via socialization.

Finally, don't lie about what Kant said. When he never attempted to prove the existence of God with his moral reasoning.


This isnt about science though, or the human mind. Its a philosophical debate outside of the phyisical enviornment or even ones own experiences. What your saying is completly irrelavent to the topic at hand. This deals with philosophy of the metaphysical. If it doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist, but that still isn't a justification for calling the centuries worh of thought "unreliable and irrational" especially compared to how much it has contributed to other schools of though such as phychology ,sociology, and other big words i cant spell correctly or even know what they mean.

Just because it isnt a science doesnt mean it isn't real. Where do u think phychology, sociology, theology, religion, ect. came from? Peace over war
Posted 6/13/10 , edited 6/13/10

JJT2 wrote:


This isnt about science though, or the human mind. Its a philosophical debate outside of the phyisical enviornment or even ones own experiences. What your saying is completly irrelavent to the topic at hand. This deals with philosophy of the metaphysical. If it doesn't exist, then it doesn't exist, but that still isn't a justification for calling the centuries worh of thought "unreliable and irrational" especially compared to how much it has contributed to other schools of though such as phychology ,sociology, and other big words i cant spell correctly or even know what they mean.

Just because it isnt a science doesnt mean it isn't real. Where do u think phychology, sociology, theology, religion, ect. came from?
Peace over war
Then why are you even objecting? When you have no idea how academic science and knowledge works. While philosophy itself had always been the study of knowledge and wisdom. So when religion dogma had been less and less reliable in its entitlement claims about reality, can you guess where philosophers will turn to? Scientific reasoning.
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Posted 6/14/10

DomFortress wrote:


blancer wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

What's so convincing about this contradiction that God's own existence being a state of ambiguity? When you can't use it to solve the Gettier Problem, because it can't be justified in a court of laws.

Also, when Immanuel Kant arrived at the supreme principle of morality strictly through pure human reasoning alone. Whereas Aristotle OTOH defined justice based on the natural purpose of thing's existence. Neither one of those philosophers' theories can be used to measure the moral worth, or the nature of metaphysics.


That is exactly the beauty of metaphysics - it is something beyond the experience of "material" world, so whatever is said or denied is done solely with reason and logic, but you can not say that theory is really right or wrong, since it is impossible to prove "materially" (hell if I know English equivalent of the word we use in Croatian".
And when you are talking about god, you can "know" about him only with reason and logic, since he is also "beyond material world". Thus all everything Kant and everyone talked about. they had various ideas about how to know god with what we as humans have beyond "material" - our mind, feelings universal ethics.
Of course, there are philosophers who argued that god (in many books his name is not god, but "superior being". (IDK why are english translators so obsessed with the word to the point of wrong translation, without even the footnote of "it can also be read that way) created this world and then moved on and left us to our own devices, so there is no way to "know" him ("reach" him?), but he left traces in this world so with those traces (life, soul etc) we can say: yeah, he was here once. Funny is that both muslims and christians burned people who thought that way. uhhh... this is kilometers off topic. sry.
Apologetic or not, that's not good enough to serve as justification. When correlation isn't necessary causation, thereby something immaterial like the human spirit or soul doesn't help cognitive science to understand the human mind, God included. Metaphysic is nothing more than baseless superstition; imaginative and fancy, but utterly unreliable.

Furthermore, when the human mind can become unreliable and irrational towards uncertainty, as proven by the 1979 psychology paper "Judgment under Uncertainty: Heuristics and Biases." While scientifically there's only the mind and no soul or spirit. Essentially we're only looking at the human mind as what the human brain does, and this mind is subjective to social process via socialization.

Finally, don't lie about what Kant said. When he never attempted to prove the existence of God with his moral reasoning.


Haha, never said it was his goal. Just said that that ethics is where he "found" God. Maybe I said it too clumsy. I would like to quote, but hell if I remember where have I read that. Kant was my least favorite philosopher, I had to read his book TWICE, coz his stile of writing is damn confusing, and German is very, very ambiguous language to translate from. (when he is talking about "Sein"... there are like 3 meanings behind the word, and every one of them an be correct in the context). Why is this important? Because "Sein" is something which represents God in later German philosophy, unlike "Gott". Why? It was considered more correct and scientific, since "God" was becoming religion only buzzword, and in philosophy and metaphysics one of the names for god was "the highest ...Sein" direct translation to english would be "highest being", but the word "being" must be seen closer to the word "to exist" then "to be"

How do you argue that psychology is exact science? Not looking for a fight, just interested. Not to troll this, you can send me answer to inbox. Sociology - yes, that is one of the rare derivate of philosophy, or "how philosophy became useful for its last time". But psychology is as ambiguous as metaphysics. i don't mix "brain science" (like what they do on brain instiutes) with psychology.
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Posted 6/14/10
i thought DomFortress was starting to be rational again on my post then suddenly, BLAM.
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Posted 6/14/10

shinto-male wrote:



so the only prove you have is a book written in the dark ages/middle ages? the gospels contradict each other and are not historical there are 2 different accounts for the alledge ancestors of Joseph the husband of Mary the mother of Jesus and their are NOT back up historical claims example the part where herod ordered the killing of boys2 years old and under NEVER happened. there is no written record of this event


some examples


Matthew


Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event.

When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels. 27:45, 51-53








well, you believe science older than Christianity or i assume you don't believe those either as it is written in the dark ages/middle ages?

anyway, what's contradictory in the gospel? Those are written in different views. (tsk. forgot that term in physics where boy A's view who stand nearer is different from boy B's view who is fartherst). Also, it was written many times through out time (remember, mass publishing is not yet invented so they have to rewrite it to send it to different churches. Take note also that it was also translated and still being translated.

Anyway, I have read it already. I find no contradictions there.

History wise. Not because it was not written by historians (since you deny that the writers of the Bible are not historian already) doesn't mean it doesn't happened.

let me post something i read from http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm...



about the events that occurred during the crucifixion, you didn't thought that papyrus can't survive that long (which makes the dead sea scrolls amazing) so written history as old a Jesus, is kinda hard to excavate.
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Posted 6/14/10

alupihan45 wrote:


shinto-male wrote:



so the only prove you have is a book written in the dark ages/middle ages? the gospels contradict each other and are not historical there are 2 different accounts for the alledge ancestors of Joseph the husband of Mary the mother of Jesus and their are NOT back up historical claims example the part where herod ordered the killing of boys2 years old and under NEVER happened. there is no written record of this event


some examples


Matthew


Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event.

When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels. 27:45, 51-53








well, you believe science older than Christianity or i assume you don't believe those either as it is written in the dark ages/middle ages?

anyway, what's contradictory in the gospel? Those are written in different views. (tsk. forgot that term in physics where boy A's view who stand nearer is different from boy B's view who is fartherst). Also, it was written many times through out time (remember, mass publishing is not yet invented so they have to rewrite it to send it to different churches. Take note also that it was also translated and still being translated.

Anyway, I have read it already. I find no contradictions there.

History wise. Not because it was not written by historians (since you deny that the writers of the Bible are not historian already) doesn't mean it doesn't happened.

let me post something i read from http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm...



about the events that occurred during the crucifixion, you didn't thought that papyrus can't survive that long (which makes the dead sea scrolls amazing) so written history as old a Jesus, is kinda hard to excavate.


every gospel was written for different audience. this is why they have different feeling. And NONE of the gospels were written by people who knew old J himself (accept Joseph - it was written by evangelist who interviewed Joseph). Earliest gospel was written some 60 years after J died. Sources were Quelle, stories from witnesses (their children), or oral stories about the event and historical records. In one of the gospels that was aimed for Jewish audience (since at the time it was written, Jews already expelled Christians from Jerusalem declared them a sect, and forbid them to participate in religious events with other Jews), so in that gospel you have lot of "x who is son of y and doter of a and son of b and son of c".. because at the time ancestry was really important in Judaism. When you compare those "son of" with the historical remains of official texts, you can actually find a lot of truth.
As for Hanibaland his "not existing"... i lold hard. even if every last record was false, then legions disappeared into thin air, and Rome's economy was destroyed by ghosts. Actually the Roman peninsula was so raised by Hannibal that the whole central part of empire became dependent on food from outside the peninsula, which led to further conquest, blah, blah, blah.... i'm boring.
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Posted 6/14/10

alupihan45 wrote:


shinto-male wrote:



so the only prove you have is a book written in the dark ages/middle ages? the gospels contradict each other and are not historical there are 2 different accounts for the alledge ancestors of Joseph the husband of Mary the mother of Jesus and their are NOT back up historical claims example the part where herod ordered the killing of boys2 years old and under NEVER happened. there is no written record of this event


some examples


Matthew


Herod kills all boys in and around Bethlehem that are two years old and under. Such a massacre would certainly have been noted by contemporary historians. Yet not even Josephus, who documented Herod's life in detail, mentioned this event.

When Jesus was crucified, there was three hours of complete darkness "over all the land." And when he died, there was a great earthquake with many corpses walking the streets of Jerusalem. It is strange that there is no record of any of these extraordinary events outside of the gospels. 27:45, 51-53








well, you believe science older than Christianity or i assume you don't believe those either as it is written in the dark ages/middle ages?

anyway, what's contradictory in the gospel? Those are written in different views. (tsk. forgot that term in physics where boy A's view who stand nearer is different from boy B's view who is fartherst). Also, it was written many times through out time (remember, mass publishing is not yet invented so they have to rewrite it to send it to different churches. Take note also that it was also translated and still being translated.

Anyway, I have read it already. I find no contradictions there.

History wise. Not because it was not written by historians (since you deny that the writers of the Bible are not historian already) doesn't mean it doesn't happened.

let me post something i read from http://www.bede.org.uk/jesusmyth.htm...



about the events that occurred during the crucifixion, you didn't thought that papyrus can't survive that long (which makes the dead sea scrolls amazing) so written history as old a Jesus, is kinda hard to excavate.


contradictions in the gospels


Gospel Contradictions:

1) How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?

3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.

4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.

5) Was she dead or just dying? (Matthew 9:18) He asked for help, saying his daughter was already dead. (Luke 8:41-42) Jairus approached Jesus for help, because his daughter was dying.

6) Just what did Jesus instruct them to take? (Matthew 10:10) Jesus instructed them not to take a staff, not to wear sandals. (Mark 6:8-9) Jesus instructed his disciples to wear sandals and take a staff on their journey.

7) When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

8) Who made the request? (Matthew 20:20-21) Their mother requested that James and John, Zebedee’s children, should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom. (Mark 10:35-37) James and John, Zebedee’s children, requested that they should sit beside Jesus in his Kingdom.

9) What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

10) When did the fig tree hear of its doom? (Matthew 21:17-19) Jesus cursed the fig tree after purging the temple. (Mark 11:14-15 & 20) He cursed it before the purging.

11) When did the fig tree keel? (Matthew 21:9) The fig tree withered immediately. and the disciples registered surprise then and there. (Mark 11:12-14 & 20) The morning after Jesus cursed the fig tree, the disciples noticed it had withered and expressed astonishment.

12) Was John the Baptist Elias? "This is Elias which was to come." Matthew 11:14 "And they asked him, what then? Art thou Elias? And he said I am not." John l:21

13) Who was the father of Joseph? Matthew 1:16 The father of Joseph was Jacob. Luke 3 :23 The father of Joseph was Heli. Christians shall try to LIE and tell you that one is the heritage of Mary and the other Joseph. This is utter bullshit, the Hebrew and Greek cultures NEVER regarded the bloodline of the mother. They were patriarchal societies which only concerned themselves with paternal lineage.

14) How many generations were there from the Babylon captivity to Christ? Matthew 1:17 Fourteen generations, Matthew 1:12-16 Thirteen generations.

15) Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.

16) Matthew 5:1-2 Christ preached his first sermon on the mount. Luke 6:17 & 20 Christ preached his first sermon in the plain.

17) John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. Mark 1:14 John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee. John 1:43 & 3:22-24

18) What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

19) How many blind men besought Jesus? Matthew 20:30 Two blind men. Luke 18:35-38 Only one blind man.

20) Where did the devil take Jesus first? (Matthew 4:5-8) The Devil took Jesus first to the parapet of the temple, then to a high place to view all the Kingdoms of the world. (Luke 4:5-9) The Devil took Jesus first to a high place to view the kingdoms, then to the parapet of the temple.

21) Can one pray in public? (Matthew 6:5-6) Jesus condemned public prayer. (1 Timothy 2:8) Paul encouraged public prayer.

22) If we decide to do good works, should those works be seen? Matthew 5:16 "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works." 1 Peter 2:12 "Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that ... they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation." This contradicts: Matthew 6:1-4 "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them…that thine alms may be in secret." Matthew 23:3-5 "Do not ye after their [Pharisees'] works ... all their works they do for to be seen of men."

23) Who did Jesus tell the Lord’s Prayer to? (Matthew 5:1, 6:9-13 & 7:28) Jesus delivered the Lord’s Prayer during the Sermon on the Mount before the multitudes. (Luke 11:1-4) He delivered it before the disciples alone, and not as part of the Sermon on the Mount.

24) When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15.

25) The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40.

26) In 1 Corinthians 1:17 ("For Christ sent me [Paul] not to baptize but to preach the gospel") Paul said Jesus was wrong when he said in Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them…" Clearly one of these people is wrong, either way, it’s a contradiction.

27) When did Satan enter Judas? Satan entered into Judas while at the supper. John 13:27 Satan entered Judas before the supper. Luke 23:3-4 & 7

28) How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.

29) Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.

30) There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5

31) How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.

32) The Holy Ghost bestowed at Pentecost. Acts 1:5-8 & 2:1-4 The holy Ghost bestowed before Pentecost. John 20:22

33) Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37 On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

34) Where did Christ ascend from? From Mount Olivet. Acts 1:9-12 From Bethany. Luke 24:50-51

35) Can all sins be forgiven? (Acts 13:39) All sins can be forgiven. Great, I’m happy to know God is so merciful, but wait (Mark 3:29) Cursing or blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgivable.

36) The Elijah mystery: (Malachi 4:5) Elijah must return before the final days of the world. (Matthew 11:12-14) Jesus said that John the Baptist was Elijah. (Matthew 17:12- 13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come, and everyone understood him to mean John the Baptist. (Mark 9:13) Jesus insists that Elijah has already come. (John 1:21) John the Baptist maintained that he was not Elijah.

37) Who purchased the potter’s field? Acts 1:18 The field was purchased by Judas. John 20:1 The potter’s field was purchased by the chief priests.

38) Paul’s attendants heard the miraculous voice and stood speechless. Acts 9:7 Paul’s attendants did not hear the voice and were prostrate. Acts 22:9 & 26:14

39) Who bought the Sepulcher? Jacob, Josh 24:32 Abraham, Acts 7:16

40) Was it lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death? "The Jews answered him, we have a law, and by our law he ought to die." John 19:7 "The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death." John 18:31

41) Has anyone ascended up to heaven? Elijah went up to heaven: "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." 2 Kings 2:11 "No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, even the son of man." John 3:13

42) Is scripture inspired by God? "all scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16 compared to: "But I speak this by permission and not by commandment." 1 Corinthians 7:6 "But to the rest speak I, not the Lord." 1 Corinthians 7:12 "That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord" 2 Corinthians.



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Posted 6/14/10

shinto-male wrote:




that is a long list but I will take time to read, study and reply to it. Contradictions in the Bibles are already settled. It's a matter of methodology that confuses people.

anyway, while i'm reading this, take time to read this as this will answer your general opinion that the Bible has a lot of contradictions. By the way, there are 143 contradictions raised by other people...

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm

take note also that some letters from Paul were not seen in the gospel; however, take note of this verse
" But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. [John 21:25; RSV]"

take note also that there are many witnesses of Jesus' teachings. One may be present. One may be absent. It's like student A, B and C. Student A was absent of first period so what student B and C knows, A doesn't know. Student B was absent of second period so what student A and C knows, student B doesn't know. So when Student A, B and C tells what happened to their day, they will have different story. Different but related and dependent
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Posted 6/14/10 , edited 6/14/10

blancer wrote:


every gospel was written for different audience. this is why they have different feeling. And NONE of the gospels were written by people who knew old J himself (accept Joseph - it was written by evangelist who interviewed Joseph). Earliest gospel was written some 60 years after J died. Sources were Quelle, stories from witnesses (their children), or oral stories about the event and historical records. In one of the gospels that was aimed for Jewish audience (since at the time it was written, Jews already expelled Christians from Jerusalem declared them a sect, and forbid them to participate in religious events with other Jews), so in that gospel you have lot of "x who is son of y and doter of a and son of b and son of c".. because at the time ancestry was really important in Judaism. When you compare those "son of" with the historical remains of official texts, you can actually find a lot of truth.
As for Hanibaland his "not existing"... i lold hard. even if every last record was false, then legions disappeared into thin air, and Rome's economy was destroyed by ghosts. Actually the Roman peninsula was so raised by Hannibal that the whole central part of empire became dependent on food from outside the peninsula, which led to further conquest, blah, blah, blah.... i'm boring.


with the hannibal story, History is indeed written by the victor. Records about Hannibal are written by Greeks or Romans not by Carthagians. I lold with this also but i can't find any source about Hannibal that came from a carthagian record.

with thus said, the Jesus myth ( he wasn't in a roman history) and Moses myth (he wasn't in an eygptian history) is not a myth at all (i'm getting ahead of myself with that statement)
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Posted 6/14/10
so you can't give a proper explanation for the obvious contradictions only this nonsense of people giving different versions of the same events something a court of law would not accept in trials and court sessions
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Posted 6/14/10

shinto-male wrote:

so you can't give a proper explanation for the obvious contradictions only this nonsense of people giving different versions of the same events something a court of law would not accept in trials and court sessions


was that for me? i wasn't using the "gettier problem"

read the link i posted. you claims are found there
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Posted 6/15/10
those links are from christians making dumb excuses for contradiction
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