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Jesus and Muhammad
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Posted 6/15/10

shinto-male wrote:

those links are from christians making dumb excuses for contradiction


if you're lazy, don't make dumb excuses

so if you are accused of something, you don't have the right to be heard. Is that your point?
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Posted 6/15/10 , edited 6/15/10
here is your quote making excuses for contraqdictions that don't add up



anyway, what's contradictory in the gospel? Those are written in different views. (tsk. forgot that term in physics where boy A's view who stand nearer is different from boy B's view who is fartherst). Also, it was written many times through out time (remember, mass publishing is not yet invented so they have to rewrite it to send it to different churches. Take note also that it was also translated and still being translated.

Anyway, I have read it already. I find no contradictions there.



are you simply blind are dafted


When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.


How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.



Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.


What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."


how can you see this and claim there is no contradiction?



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Posted 6/15/10 , edited 6/15/10
I can’t pass this up being in the anti- regions freak that I am. But a peeing contest about Mohammad vs. Jesus. Well the lesser of two evils would be Jesus. I can even buy intelligent designed to a point but, I hear all this comparison between the two makes me want to toss my lunch. And if you’re going to use a reference point I would seeking a Jewish scholar since they are the ones with one god. Another words the Jewish people invented the concept and everyone else is has made copies, to reinvent it. Being from the Darwinist community not that I did not want to believe in a higher power. If there is one I would like to kick to death for stupidity. By way these conversation mostly end with somebody calling the other party a name, or throwing a rock, or next shooting at one another sound familiar.
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Posted 6/17/10
haha this thread is cool!
ppl thinking for something can't be anz wit an accurate anz....
lolz
^^

no matter wat you belive let'z live in peace together
each religion is told about peace...
^^

haha
lolz
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Posted 6/17/10

shinto-male wrote:

here is your quote making excuses for contraqdictions that don't add up



anyway, what's contradictory in the gospel? Those are written in different views. (tsk. forgot that term in physics where boy A's view who stand nearer is different from boy B's view who is fartherst). Also, it was written many times through out time (remember, mass publishing is not yet invented so they have to rewrite it to send it to different churches. Take note also that it was also translated and still being translated.

Anyway, I have read it already. I find no contradictions there.



are you simply blind are dafted


When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.


How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.



Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.


What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."


how can you see this and claim there is no contradiction?





I actually have a question: where does it exactly say in bible that it is historical document? New testament was written by 4 main writers and idk how many others. Then it was put together as one. Which of the 4 stories is closest to the truth? That is also something that I don't know. But I think it is completely wrong to read it as historical book, since to the writers it was the message that was important, not historical accuracy. yes, they tried to add up some historical accuracy, but for the authenticity, not as reference to historians.
And there is another thing (common mistake mostly Americans do): lack of historical perspective. People tend to think that humans who lived before had the same ethics, ideals, and way of thinking as people today. And they tend to "judge" historical people and events from todays perspective. Which is, of course, wrong.
And, if everything I said is false, how come no one tried to find historical evidence in Homers Iliad, for example? Or any other Greek myth? Why is only new testament taken seriously, while all other religious text are read as what they are: religious texts?

As for the topic: Muslims believe that it was not Jesus who died on a cross, but Judas, who was physically similar to Jesus. It is because they believe Jesus was the prophet dearest and closest to God (Allah), who had the power for making miracles. (his miracles in Bible and Kur'an actually add up). But: God would not lower himself so much as to procreate (with whom exactly?) and then sacrifice his son. (at the time, Arabic male children were needed so much that it was impossible to even think about putting them in danger of your own free will).
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Posted 6/17/10

alupihan45 wrote:

Why do Christians reject Muhammad's prophethood?
Why do Muslims reject Jesus' resurrection?

I haven't read the whole Quran ( apparently, I can't buy one in a bookstore) but talking to a lot of muslims in my country and reading books about Islam, they are the same in the basic principle of "Love God" and " Love your neighbors"

but I can't understand why they are still different.

Was it because of the two guys mentioned?


It'll be nice if you explain more of Jesus' resurrection, since what I know Jesus has 2 resurrection. The one when he were crucified and resurrected to heaven or another one, when the end of the world near, Jesus would resurrect once again to save the world? Well, if you referring to that resurrections, actually muslims believe in both of them. Ironically, the one who believes most when Jesus will revive once again to save the world is Shia which is radical and currently being hated by the world.

I confirmed once again that I have no idea what kind of resurrection you were referring. So I was just provide my answer if you refer to 2 resurrection I mentioned above.


digs wrote:

As a Christian I'll try and answer this. Christians reject Muhammad's claim to being a prophet because of two main reasons.
1. Muhammad preformed no miracles and spoke a message that was contrary and contradictory to what God has laid down before.


I'm not sure if you really look into prophet Muhammad's history when you said he didn't perform any miracles when he spread the teachings. There are many miracles shown by him, like splitting the moon, food multiplication, the Prophet's night journey to Jerusalem and ascent to the heavens to have an order to pray 5 times, praying to god to make a storm outside the wall's city to drive out enemy, etc. There are many that nobody would said he did not shown any miracles, unless they don't want to accept it. However, muslims accept Jesus' miracles like revive a dead person and many as Jesus was considered as prophet from god too, like Abraham, Adam, Solomon, Moses, David, Muhammad etc.


digs wrote:

2. The Bible clearly tells us to test the spirits of teachers to see if they are decievers or of God. A very general guidline is given as well 1Jo 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1Jo 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 1Jo 4:3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. Muhammad's message denied that Jesus was the Son of God, that Jesus Christ did not come in the flesh (but rather was just a man and not the Messiah), and this according to the Bible Muhammad can not be a prophet filled with God's spirit.


Actually, both musllims and Muhammad name were written in original bible, Aramaic Bible using original language like how Qur'an written in original language, Arabic. This is Aramaic bible text that refers muslims



And this is Muhammad in Song of Solomon 5 : 16 in Hebrew scripture.
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."


I agree that many people claimed themselves as prophet. But Muhammad was not an anti-christ like what was written in Bible. And Muhammad also said that Jesus was from God, but not as His part or family. But as prophet like Solomon, Moses and Muhammad that guides people to worship Him who sent all prophets on the world.

Muslims do not agree with the Christian doctrine of trinity or the divinity of Jesus. Millions of Christians reject this same doctrine. At least five Presidents of the USA: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams, Millard Fillmore, and William Howard Taft did not believe that Jesus was the son of god. They were Unitarians that respected the teachings of Jesus and rejected his divinity.

It is very interesting that Thomas Jefferson, the writer of the US Constitution, purchased a copy of the Quran, and taught himself to read Arabic, and to know the basic Arabic grammars. It should be noted that Arabic is a Semitic language written from right to left as opposed to English which a Latin language written to left to right. It is suggested in this article that Thomas Jefferson went to all this work in the Quran and it language to study the Islamic Law to help him in his legal work

Reference:

Kane, Joseph Nathan. Facts About the Presidents (Fourth Edition). New York: The H. W. Wilson Co. (1981)

DeGregorio, William A. The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents (Second Edition). New York: Dembner Books (1989)

Kevin Hayes, “How Thomas Jefferson Read the Quran” Early American Literature; June 2004, Vol.39 Issue 2, P. 247 All rights reserved.

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Posted 6/17/10

Ryutai-Desk wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:

Why do Christians reject Muhammad's prophethood?
Why do Muslims reject Jesus' resurrection?

I haven't read the whole Quran ( apparently, I can't buy one in a bookstore) but talking to a lot of muslims in my country and reading books about Islam, they are the same in the basic principle of "Love God" and " Love your neighbors"

but I can't understand why they are still different.

Was it because of the two guys mentioned?


It'll be nice if you explain more of Jesus' resurrection, since what I know Jesus has 2 resurrection. The one when he were crucified and resurrected to heaven or another one, when the end of the world near, Jesus would resurrect once again to save the world? Well, if you referring to that resurrections, actually muslims believe in both of them. Ironically, the one who believes most when Jesus will revive once again to save the world is Shia which is radical and currently being hated by the world.

I confirmed once again that I have no idea what kind of resurrection you were referring. So I was just provide my answer if you refer to 2 resurrection I mentioned above.



i'm referring to their first one-crucified then resurrected
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Posted 6/17/10


When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

If you have read it. You will now that when John the Baptist was imprisoned, he was starting to lose hope and starts to question if Jesus is, indeed, the real deal. You do not read the Bible at all. You don't even know the context of the verses. It was said that if a person wants to find contradiction in the Bible, in their heart they will find one. Just like this. Reading without knowing the context.

How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

we (christian sect) are still under debating for this as the 42 generation was not actually just a man but a group of men. so i cannot give a definite answer for this for now.

What animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.



Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.



What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

you should know at this point of time that when you read something like that, you should consider the historical background of the verses.

google how jewish people stereotype foreigners during those time.

how can you see this and claim there is no contradiction?





Please watch this links. It will explain to you a lot of things. I know you will raise more but this video will suffice your initial inquiry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGunIs5vtY
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Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/19/10

When did John find out Jesus was the Messiah? (Matthew 11:2-3) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the messiah. (Luke 7:18-22) While imprisoned. John the Baptist sent followers to Jesus to inquire if Jesus was the Messiah. (John 1 :29-34,36) John already knew Jesus was the Messiah.

If you have read it. You will now that when John the Baptist was imprisoned, he was starting to lose hope and starts to question if Jesus is, indeed, the real deal. You do not read the Bible at all. You don't even know the context of the verses. It was said that if a person wants to find contradiction in the Bible, in their heart they will find one. Just like this. Reading without knowing the context.




what context are you talking about the contradictions here is obvious one version said John sent people to ask if Jesus is the messiah and other version said John already knew he was the messiah. how can you say there is no contradiction? stop making excuses





How many generations were there between Abraham to David? Matthew 1:17 lists fourteen generations. Matthew 1:2 lists thirteen generations.

we (christian sect) are still under debating for this as the 42 generation was not actually just a man but a group of men. so i cannot give a definite answer for this for now.



one generation according to these verses is ONE man.



[quoteWhat animals were brought to Jesus? (Matthew 21:2-7) two of the disciples brought Jesus an ass and a colt from the village of Bethphage. (Mark 11:2-7) They brought him only a colt.

Matthew 2:15, 19 & 21-23 The infant Christ was taken into Egypt. Luke 2:22 & 39 The infant Christ was NOT taken to Egypt.




these verses obviously contradictions and yet you can only bring up articles from apologists who cannot explain the contradiction




What was the nationality of the woman who besought Jesus? Matthew 15:22 "And behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, Have mercy on me, 0 Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil." Mark 7:26 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation, and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."

you should know at this point of time that when you read something like that, you should consider the historical background of the verses.



what does historical background have to do with this? this is a contradiction obviously you cannot explain them which is the bible




google how jewish people stereotype foreigners during those time.


all the stereotypes in the world would not change the fact that the gospels and the rest of the bible is filled with contradiction





Please watch this links. It will explain to you a lot of things. I know you will raise more but this video will suffice your initial inquiry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGunIs5vtY


a christian video will not change the fact that the gospels is filled with contradictions

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Posted 10/28/10
muslims believe that jesus was a prophet of god just like those prophets before him and after him. muhammad (pbuh) was also a prophet, the last one. prophets were normal humans who were pious and selected by god as a messenger. muslims also belive that jesus was not cucified. he was taken away from this world by the god bfore he was crucified and that he will be brought back on earth when the last imaam will come to cleanse the world from the antichrist and then he <jesus> will kill the antichrist. muhammad (pbuh) was made a prophet at the age of 40 and was asked to invite ppl to islam. which says there is one god, all races are equal, there is equal treatment of all humans, there is respect for women, kindness for orphans and many other good teachings all in favour of humanity.
Posted 10/28/10 , edited 10/28/10
I am not religious but I do think that the Muslims of the Ahmadiyya hold rather interesting beliefs.
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Posted 10/28/10 , edited 10/28/10
Let us postulate an alternate dimension where this is true:

Christianity and Islam exist.
Both the Bible and Quran explicitly say that Jesus and Mohammad are the same, in flesh and blood. In addition, they both explicitly state that the God of Abraham and Allah are the same deity.

I'd bet my life that Christians and Muslims would still argue/kill each other over views in this alternate dimension.

Religion does not manipulate people; the people interpreting it does.
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Posted 12/15/10
well the questions are answered so i'll pretty much sound like a broken record, but the stories of how Jesus was born is already a controversy because its different. In the Bible he was born in a manger but in the Quran he was born under a tree. Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God because God have created Jesus, and he performs miracles, but in the Quran, Allah (God) said that he does not have any spouses or any offspring. So Jesus is a Prophet. Muslims don't reject Jesus. They reject that Jesus is the Son of God. I hope I'm making sense for I have not fully completed the Quran yet. Allah has stated that He has no offspring throughout the whole Quran. His teachings are just as important as Muhammad's. Also, the Bible has been tampered with as well as the Torah. The Quran is the only holy book that man has not tampered with and that makes it even more controversy between the two. Also Muslims worship the same God as the Christains and the Jews, just have different views is all.

P.S.: I'm only trying to answer the question so don't bash me.
Posted 12/15/10
it's 2 sides of the same coin and that's all I am going to say.
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Posted 12/21/10

alupihan45 wrote:

Why do Christians reject Muhammad's prophethood?
Why do Muslims reject Jesus' resurrection?

I haven't read the whole Quran ( apparently, I can't buy one in a bookstore) but talking to a lot of muslims in my country and reading books about Islam, they are the same in the basic principle of "Love God" and " Love your neighbors"

but I can't understand why they are still different.

Was it because of the two guys mentioned?


Dunno if it's clearly been answered, I scanned through the posts. Muslims do believe in the resurrection of Jesus. Only, it's not truly resurrection but more of a return, as in Islam, he never died. He was taken from the earth, by Allah, body soul and all. He is not believed to be the son of God though. Just a man, a prophet.
And why Christian's reject Muhammad, my answer would be seen as biased as I'm not Christian, so that's all.
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