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Did Christ commit suicide?
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Posted 6/18/10 , edited 6/18/10

alupihan45 wrote:


TimelessLove wrote:

--
God defies all he preaches.

Thou shall not murder, yet many have felt his hand of death.
Be merciful, love your neighbors, but he sends people to eternal hell.
God.. in a sense.. acts like society; his decisions are not perfect and cannot fulfill everyone. He does not and can not take an action that would morally place him above us humans.
---



i guess you are not a church goer because if you are, you shoud have know that your claims are wrong

1. In a biblical sense, we do not own our life. It is a loan from God and it is not evil to take back what is rightfully His.
2. God was merciful enough that he sacrifice his first born so that God and men would reconcile but if the free will of men chooses to go against God, he already chose his fate as an enemy of God.

3. How do you expect a Holy God to fulfill man's evil desires?

where are you getting all this? does this came from a priest or a pastor?


I was just thinking to myself really.

I used to go to a Chinese Baptist Church weekly with my parents. I enjoyed the activities and readings of the Bible we had and loved the people there. Everyone was cheerful and friendly; so I thought to myself, even if this Christian God is not real, there is no reason to not believe and worship God. He teaches us good morals and ethics. Of course, I was 9 back then and had no idea of history.

It was when I attended a "white church"( no hispanics, no african, few asians, all rest rich whites), that I decided to be not affiliated with the church any longer. One of the priests believed Mohammad to be Satan and that Muslims will all ultimately go to hell no matter their actions. It was then that I realized that, the Bible can also breed hate against those that are different. The "good morals" in the Bible is also not set as an example by God. As children, how can we follow the rules of the Father who does not guide us? Is there less crime in Christian countries? Less wars? Less violence? Less rape? Less prejudice and hatred? Not a bit...

Well, the ultimate reason I can never believe in God is that there is no "revelation" from the Bible that could not have came from the mind of a mortal.

Edit:

You have given me examples of God being merciful and kind. So I give you a suicide bomber who is merciful and kind to his own kins, and would be willing to sacrifice his life to protect his country.

Does being merciful at times allow you to be cruel at other times?

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Posted 6/18/10

TimelessLove wrote:


I was just thinking to myself really.

I used to go to a Chinese Baptist Church weekly with my parents. I enjoyed the activities and readings of the Bible we had and loved the people there. Everyone was cheerful and friendly; so I thought to myself, even if this Christian God is not real, there is no reason to not believe and worship God. He teaches us good morals and ethics. Of course, I was 9 back then and had no idea of history.

It was when I attended a "white church"( no hispanics, no african, few asians, all rest rich whites), that I decided to be not affiliated with the church any longer. One of the priests believed Mohammad to be Satan and that Muslims will all ultimately go to hell no matter their actions. It was then that I realized that, the Bible can also breed hate against those that are different. The "good morals" in the Bible is also not set as an example by God. As children, how can we follow the rules of the Father who does not guide us? Is there less crime in Christian countries? Less wars? Less violence? Less rape? Less prejudice and hatred? Not a bit...

Well, the ultimate reason I can never believe in God is that there is no "revelation" from the Bible that could not have came from the mind of a mortal.

Edit:

You have given me examples of God being merciful and kind. So I give you a suicide bomber who is merciful and kind to his own kins, and would be willing to sacrifice his life to protect his country.

Does being merciful at times allow you to be cruel at other times?



actually, Jesus came with a sword

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)

Now, don't take that in a literal sense where Jesus wants a royal ramble. The point there is Good is always against Evil. No compromise. So understand that Christians will really hate what is immoral. They don't hate the person but the acts of immorality. So in your part, if I claim you are a Christian and still practices acts of immorality, you failed to understand the real meaning of my religion.

God does guide us but do you let him guide you?

I cannot say that Christian countries are more peaceful and crime-free. Jesus acknowledges that their a goats in the flocks of sheep and we should watch out for them.

and the revelation are not from men at all.

about the last part, if you are really merciful, you would just run away. 1.) you bring grief to your family at your death 2.) you bring shame to your family (people will think a lot of issues against them) 3.) he could have done it with a gandhi style war but now. He chose to kill a number of people that the enemy would find it insignificant
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Posted 6/19/10
I should also add however that 'heroic self sacrifice' is probably what an Al Qeada supporters call a suicide bombing.Or what Japanese of a particular generation problem called Kamikaze pilots.

hmmm... given the prevalence of "Honourable Suicide" in Anime and Japan Related dramas it would be interesting to get an expert on the subject to see if being martyred on the cross counted as "Honourable Suicide"...
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Posted 6/19/10 , edited 6/19/10

alupihan45 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


He had a choice, if he chose to admit that he isn't the son of God and king of Jews, acknowledge the authority of Rome and of the Priest, he would've been fine, but he chose to defy them, with knowledge that it will lead him to his death. That is still suicide, regardless of its sanctity. He chose to come to earth with knowledge of his sacrifice, which is also suicide. If I give my parachute to my wife, I am estentially commiting Suicide.


So in other words, you want Jesus to lie? you want Jesus to abort God's will?

i think you are just trolling around

in a theological point of view, it is men who are defiant. Jesus would not come to the world if men are obedient.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

To be fair, we usually call acts of self-sacrifice for a greater good "heroism" not "suicide"
Go around the military community and try and tell them that many of the holders of medals like the Britain's Victoria Cross, or the US Medal of Honour, are suicides and I think the police would rule your death one.


lol. tell that to orangeflute. My friends in the military would probably put a bullet on his head if they heard this especially my dad who was in the battlefield since the 80's until now


I am not saying it is a bad thing that he sacrificed himself and all that, I am only saying that it is essentially suicide and it is irrelevent whether he died for the good of mankind. He still died, he hastened his death, he willingly came to earth with foreknowledge of his death, he defied authority knowing full well he will be executed, he had a choice and he can defy order, thus it is suicide. Suicide does not necessarily have to be a great negative and it may well be 'heroic', it is you who percieve that suicide is some great evil.
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Posted 6/19/10
A point which I think I already conceded. Don't get me wrong I don't have much stake in this thread I just pipe when I think I see a flaw in logic or some similar event that makes me think I have something worthwhile to say.
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Posted 6/19/10
Alupihan45, let's end this. You conceeded that a) he had a choice, b) he had foreknowledge of his death, and c) did nothing to stop it, bascially amounting to suicide. Now, you are just rambling on the importance of his 'sacrifice' to mankind and other theological finesses that are not at all relevant.
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Posted 6/25/10
well its not a suicide because jesus didnt hanged himself in the cross....well its true that he knew everything and was in control on the situation...
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Posted 6/25/10

azn_kawaii wrote:

well its not a suicide because jesus didnt hanged himself in the cross....well its true that he knew everything and was in control on the situation...


Standing in front of a coming train and not moving is considered suicide.
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Posted 7/26/10 , edited 7/26/10
Before I state my opinion, I believe in God but i'm not into religion.
Oh and I'm not really good in debates so you can just ignore me. lol

"Eli Eli Sabaktani" is what Jesus said when he was abou to die. It meant "my God, my God, why have you abandoned me.?"
It was like he no longer had any choice, he was dying already and so he just accepted the fact that he was going to die.
If accepting to be sacrificed for the benefit of the people is suicide, then I don't know anymore. :o

I didn't make sense, did I?

-

Oh, there was one time when I went into a catholic mass and the priest there said that God and Jesus Christ are/is one. He said that Jesus was like the human version of God.
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Posted 7/26/10

alupihan45 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

Although it is a rather puerile question to ask, if Jesus and God are one, and he came upon Earth with the knowledge of his eminent death on the cross, would that not count as suicide?


Jesus and God are not one. With that said, God sent Jesus as a sacrificial lamb for the atonement of everyone's sin. In short, Jesus was sacrificed. It is evident also that he doesn't wish to die in the cross but he willingly obeyed because those things must happen so that the prophecy must be fulfilled.

Matthew 26:39 "Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.""



2 things
1st, Since we're citing the Bible, Jesus is God according to the Bible. Not only did he say he was God many times, in many ways, he also said that if we bellieve in Him, then he would live in us, and make us sons and daughters of God. So if God is in us then we are of Holy relation and have the ability to show God like qualities even though we are not "THE" God, but sons and daughters. It's still a good deal
John 17:21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me

2nd, Suicide is self inflicted. Jesus did not kill himself, he simply allowed himself to be killed. The difference is subtle, but by that defenition alone, his death was neither suicide or murder. Murder is not chosen, that's why it's murder 1 a : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily :http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suicide

Because it was Jesus' will to die - he chose it to get our salvation from Hell. So if you choose Jesus you escape sin and hell. Hence it was a sacrifice.
destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else : http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacrifice
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Posted 7/27/10 , edited 7/27/10
I never thought of it that way.

If you're a christian who believes in the holy trinity, (God the father, Jesus and the holy as one), then this makes sense. He orders himself to get killed but then ask for himself not to get killed but then tell himself it needs to be done and then he conceded (with the help of his other self (the holy spirit) ) that it is right to kill himself to save humankind and allowed the romans to kill himself.....wait. No it doesnt make sense. lol Anyway Jesus chose to die and provoked the high priests to do so. Does that make it assisted suicide?
If you dont believe in the holy trinity it works the same way. Jesus chose to die.

Im just playing. No it was not suicide. Regardless of the fact that we have no evidence outside the bible to support the claim that this event even occurred , we have to come to the conclusion that it isnt suicide. Since the romans killed jesus due to his blasphemous claim that he was God, which was punishable by death according to jewish tradition. Did he want to die? maybe. But that didnt matter.
The only way to view it as suicide is if it was assisted suicide. But in assisted suicide the accomplice needs to know that the person wants to die which in this case they dont.
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Posted 7/28/10
Letting your self die is suicide, if you disagree, your a fool.
1. Jesus was all powerful, he could have escaped, but he let him self die.
2. Jesus is not all powerful, was killed, there is no god.

your choose.
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Posted 8/1/10
Jesus was a man the Romans killed him so no he did not commit suicide. Nail your self to a cross would be very hard to do if not imposable so who cares not me.
Posted 8/5/10
There was an arrest and a sentence against Jesus Christ it cannot be called a suicide. Even if or let's just say even if Jesus actually tried to escape that time, God will not allow him. It cannot be considered a suicide.
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Posted 8/5/10

No, He didn't commit suicide......it was a sacrifice for everyone's sins.......

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