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Did Christ commit suicide?
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Posted 8/5/10

pcekeep wrote:

There was an arrest and a sentence against Jesus Christ it cannot be called a suicide. Even if or let's just say even if Jesus actually tried to escape that time, God will not allow him. It cannot be considered a suicide.


Jesus could have said "Fuck you God, I want to live", and i dunno teleported away or something.
Posted 8/5/10

Allhailodin wrote:


pcekeep wrote:

There was an arrest and a sentence against Jesus Christ it cannot be called a suicide. Even if or let's just say even if Jesus actually tried to escape that time, God will not allow him. It cannot be considered a suicide.


Jesus could have said "Fuck you God, I want to live", and i dunno teleported away or something.


We know how devious and crafty god is and Jesus knows that heheheh. He could have probably died if he'd done that. He should have asked Gouku to teach him instant transmission though...
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Posted 8/5/10 , edited 8/5/10
Hey!!!!

Can it really be suicide if resurrection is involved? ! ? ! Isn't alive again not dead???

I mean, knowing about the coming death, & going thru w/ it, wouldn't He also have know what was to come after that, & not worry about the outcome because a different than anyone expected was actually part of the plan.

(just go ahead & forget the retorts & arguments questioning the legitimacy of His resurrection, Please!!!)

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Posted 8/5/10 , edited 8/5/10
of course conversly if he knew he was going to be resurrected then that cheapens the touted value of his self sacrifice.

If being resurrected means it's not suicide simply because he's not dead.

Doesn't not really dieing devalue his ultimate self - sacrifice because well... It's not?

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Posted 8/5/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:of course conversly if he knew he was going to be resurrected then that cheapens the touted value of his self sacrifice.
If being resurrected means it's not suicide simply because he's not dead.
Doesn't not really dieing devalue his ultimate self - sacrifice because well... It's not?


OUCH! I guess that sort of makes sense.
I actually have a follow up reference for this, but I really don't feel like looking it up, then writing it here because of the potential futility of effort.
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Posted 8/5/10 , edited 8/5/10
extending the logic above it get's more interesting.

If he didn't know or at least wasn't certain of the outcome then he couldn't be sure he was killing himself.

so either (A) he knew all things for certain and Neither commited suicide nor really self sacrificed himself.

or

(B) there was sufficient uncertainty to make it a gamble! and then it's not complete self sacrifice but neither is it suicide. A gamble is not commitment.

(edit PS)

HA! which means that Einstein was wrong! Christ didn't commit suicide but God DOES play dice with the universe!
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Posted 8/5/10

farmbird wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:of course conversly if he knew he was going to be resurrected then that cheapens the touted value of his self sacrifice.
If being resurrected means it's not suicide simply because he's not dead.
Doesn't not really dieing devalue his ultimate self - sacrifice because well... It's not?


OUCH! I guess that sort of makes sense.
I actually have a follow up reference for this, but I really don't feel like looking it up, then writing it here because of the potential futility of effort.


come on, trot it out. we can look it over and decide if it's a horse or a camel. and even if it's the latter we can learn some anatomy.

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Posted 8/5/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

farmbird wrote:

papagolfwhiskey wrote:of course conversly if he knew he was going to be resurrected then that cheapens the touted value of his self sacrifice. If being resurrected means it's not suicide simply because he's not dead. Doesn't not really dieing devalue his ultimate self - sacrifice because well... It's not?

OUCH! I guess that sort of makes sense. I actually have a follow up reference for this, but I really don't feel like looking it up, then writing it here because of the potential futility of effort.

come on, trot it out. we can look it over and decide if it's a horse or a camel. and even if it's the latter we can learn some anatomy.


Oh, okay................. here goes: [I wonder if this makes sense or even applies.]

1 Corinthians 2: 6-9; We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"
&
Ephesians 3: 9-11; ...and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. (both from NIV)

This is given as explanation for & of the plan for salvation & resurrection. The trick for Jesus was to pass thru death, & not be stopped by it, but trail blaze if you will to life eternal, & so forth. Not trying to be flippant or blasphemous here, just making it ultra simple.
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Posted 8/5/10
OK with that with immaculate conception. It and rained 40day and night and flooded the world that a funny one too. Big problem for the right wing pushing there religion down the throat of other Blue laws mostly. And there still a backlash from that stunt and religion Nazi still have not gotten it. The BS that Muslim want Sherri law give me a break. There a big difference between freedom to worship and the US laws. The law should never give way to a religious group ideology.
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Posted 8/7/10

farmbird wrote:


Oh, okay................. here goes: [I wonder if this makes sense or even applies.]

1 Corinthians 2: 6-9; We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"
&
Ephesians 3: 9-11; ...and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. (both from NIV)

This is given as explanation for & of the plan for salvation & resurrection. The trick for Jesus was to pass thru death, & not be stopped by it, but trail blaze if you will to life eternal, & so forth. Not trying to be flippant or blasphemous here, just making it ultra simple.


It makes sense.

But as regards to the OP. since the plan required him to die. either it was suicide or his dad murdered him.. but then the plan was that he wouldn't stay dead so... argh....

This is what the robot on star trek must have felt like when trying to parse out Harry Mudd's (Who always lies according to Jim Kirk) saying "I am lying." the robot's head exploded in the end.


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Posted 8/7/10
I believe Jesus was a zombie hunter that rides on a T-Rex!
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Posted 8/7/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


It makes sense.

But as regards to the OP. since the plan required him to die. either it was suicide or his dad murdered him.. but then the plan was that he wouldn't stay dead so... argh....

This is what the robot on star trek must have felt like when trying to parse out Harry Mudd's (Who always lies according to Jim Kirk) saying "I am lying." the robot's head exploded in the end.


I totally understand & sympathize! Now, here is where the fact that I'm a believer comes in handy...... even tho I don't yet understand these things, I know when I reach the heavenlies & am in the presence of His perfectness, I'll get the explanations I need & want.--

1 Cor. 13:12; Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now, I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Eph.4:18; So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.


For some, this will be just another religious cop out. So be it, they're entitled. I like to think of it as a default, or failsafe, tho, in truth it is more important to me than those words would indicate--- 'cause I'm a believer of course.

(This does not mean I've exclusively shut the door on Pastafarianism.)
Posted 8/7/10
No the other guy did....whats his face? Judas? The one who betrayed him I dunno -__-
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Posted 8/8/10
I ran into an interesting concept while looking up something for another thread. (Wikipedia is dangerous, you start with a question about needlework and then find yourself reading up on medieval heraldry usually after a side trip into the biology of whales)

Anyhow a concept rejected by the first council of Nicea was that of Arianism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

This was a contrary belief to that of the holy trinity that basically said that Christ was distinct being from God, created by God and thus inferior to him.

Under an Arian paradigm It's possible Christ wasn't all knowing or completely willing. which would mean he neither commited suicide nor was his self-sacrifice cheapened by the knowledge of resurrection.
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Posted 8/15/10
If god exists, he created rapists and pedophiles too :D


I don't understand when people say, no he didn't mean for that to happen
or , they are just like that because of free will


If there is a god, then before he created the universe, he would know how everything would turn out, in the year 99999999999999
therefore everything that happens/ created/ destroyed/ raped is intended




If you say no, I cannot understand............... He even created my post, cause he saw this coming after he made the sun, if not he is not god









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