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Christianity 101: Bible
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Posted 6/20/10

alupihan45 wrote:

Northboundsnow wrote:

alupihan45 wrote:

papagolfwhiskey wrote:OP if everyone in Christendom believed as you say, then Galileo would have never been shown the instruments of the inquisition, there would have have never been a Scopes Monkey Trial, there would be no need for religious Scientists to contort the standards of scientific theory and evidence to prove things like Earth being 6 000 years old, and finally half the threads on ED wouldn't exist.

yeah. it would have been like that; however, the Bible didn't said that the world is 6,000 years old.

Lets clear the confusion and try to make this clear.

The idea of a young earth of 6000-10000 years old, stemmed from Archbishop James Ussher, a 17th century biblical scholar who chronicle a timeline, something like what I showed below. This chronology is touted by young earth creationist believers.


If you look at the diagram at the part which says creation of the world, young earth creationist believe it to be 6 days as reflected in bible, thus earth is 6000 years old. Geological records and others believe the earth to be older than that and the 6 days to be not taken literally.
So the question returns back, which is it? A young earth 6000 yrs or billion and billion of years?

He is a biblical scholar. Hard to against that but remember also, they are the same religious group who claimed the world is the center of the universe using this passages

Psalms 93:1
The Lord reigns; he is robbed in majesty; the lord is robbed, he is girded with strength. Yea, the world is established; it shall never be moved.

and many more...
But I have to say there is no question with his timetable. It was well written and based directly from the Bible. The question is the 6 days creation. How long is day way back? How long is God's days?

Let's see what the Bible tells about God's time.
2 Peter 3:8 "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."



Let's see what the Bible tells about God's time.
2 Peter 3:8 "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." ......... Of course, that is logic wise. We just added 1+1. But if we actually use the Bible, it's already decided.
- Alupihan45

I am not sure whether I understand this point especially on the decided part and from what I learned about 2 Peter 3:8 the interpretation by different Christian scholars is different to how you interpret it especially when compared to Genesis 1:~,

Still assuming that Genesis 1 and 2 Peter 3:8 interpretation of days is correct, to be clear we are still looking at diagram above for the part creation of the world, with each day as a thousand years, 6 days thus equal 6 thousand years thus when take into account Ussher chronicle, thus estimated Earth age is 12000 yrs. Short of billions and billions of years from current rough estimate of Earth age or oldest record of fossils and rocks.


Interpretation by different christian scholars of the 2 text is different, Genesis 1 and 2 Peter 3:8, talks about different things. Where Genesis 1 talks about the 6 days of creation, 2 Peter 3:8, is that mortal man is frail; in comparison to God. This verse that no matter how long a time interval is (a thousand years to a day) from man’s time-bound perspective, it’s like a twinkling of an eye from God’s perspective.

In any case, the meaning of ‘day’ in Genesis 1 is defined by the context there—the Hebrew word for day, yôm יום , is used with the words ‘evening’ and ‘morning’, and the days are numbered (first day, second day, etc.). Whenever yôm is used in such a context, it is always an ordinary day, never a long period of time. Taken from Christian website - http://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day-is-like-a-thousand-years

To be fair, despite the many advances that man has made in Science and the pursuit of knowledge, there are still many things we don't understand.

"The single thread in the tapestry
Through its color brightly shine
Can never see its purpose
In the pattern of the grand design "

The most important thing is we must never stop questioning and seeking knowledge even and especially when they come from our most sacred sources, interpretation may be flawed or missing. To stop questioning and accept everything everything spoken literally as truth will be a crime to humanity and an affront to God's gift to man for the pursuit of knowledge.

Prince of Egypt - Through heaven's eyes= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG0a9WFkgzU
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Posted 6/20/10

orangeflute wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


1- It is relevent in that if it were true, and God did command it written in that fashion, why then would it be so full of faults? It is then a faliable book.

2- So, such feeling are not petty? Explain why they are not childish or petty. If I had God's power, and I punish people for such foolish and insignificant reasons, you would no doubt label me as petty and chilidish. Also, Satan, should God be all powerful, should never exist, and, if he did, should not have gone astray.

3- So just follow orders without thought--God must be rather authoritarian then.

4- If I claimed myself as a prophet, and told everyone to kick each other in the balls (and for women to kick the nearest man in the balls), you would want to question me and mock the idiocy of my statement as well. I am sure that you will not follow every balding beggar who claim to be God's prophet without a legitimate reason. Also, snice God loves you so much and wouldn't even let arrows fall upon you and such, why, then, do martyrs exist, and why, then, do their killers live happily afterward?

5- Even in the Greek and Norse mythology, you show a great lack of knowledge. The only mythology you seem to be proficient with is the mythology of some backwater tribe in the Middle East who seem to end every sin with death.


1. What are we talking about here? the story of creation or the whole Bible?

2. Well, okay let us talk what are these reasons. Give me some. We cannot assume it applies to all.

About Satan, read the post please.

3- so if i say to you don't drink that poison, you'll question me and just go ahead?

It is not clear tough but God's presence has some bad effects on human. He asked Moses to stepped back because if Moses walks closer, he would be burned. We may assume that God doesn't want them to watch because of the effect. Well, that is me.

4. - Of course I'm mock and question you. We read the scriptures and those are not written. In fact, hurting someone is bad so it is contradictory to what we believe. However, if you preach righteousness and holiness that would be a different story.

No. No one got away from killing the martyrs. Didn't Rome crumbled? Wasn't Israel fell on the Islam? Being a martyr is just a good way to die and it doesn't come just like that. Martyrdom has some perks and that is why Christians aren't afraid to die for God's sake.

5. Okay. tell me what i do not know?


1- Everything about the bible.

2- I did, it is even more idiotic than you. God is all powerful, he is also all good. Therefore there shouldn't exist evil, or any being resembling evil. God has an equal power to create and destroy. Why then, is there still evil in the form of the 'Opposer'? Logically, it makes no sense at all. But, you may reply by saying something to the effect of 'God wish us not to know these things', then we may all go back to the Middle Ages, and live happily ever after.

Also, the Old Testament is simply a record of God's childishness and Pettiness, and I don't think that I would need to furnish any examples, seeing as thus is the subject of the whole book.

3- God tells you 'Jump off a very steep cliff' your frist reaction would be 'Why?', thence God will turn you to stone.

If I were to drink poison, who is to say I am not doing it on purpose? And who are you to interfere with my free will? I may take in minute amounts poison as medicine, or I may wish my life over. I may be testing out the story of Mithridates. Either way, I should not let some poor fool under the delusion that he is always right, and that he is the personal representative of God and the Crusader against all of heathendom tell me what I should do to myself.

4- Now you know my objection to paranoid schzoids who claim divinity, or, as you would call them, 'Men of God'.

What is righteousness? Who set the guidelines? What is holiness? “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple“ (Luke 14: 26), I doubt that this is righteous, and Confucius says so. Who is to say that kicking people in the balls is not righteous or holy?

Concerning Martyrs, Rome fell, I don't know, after they embraced Christianity. And it took God a damn long while. Israel was the Romans before they were expelled, then people came into that land, and then those people eventually accepted Islam. So, God was a little too early when he delivered Israel into the hands of its enemies as retribution to Jesus. Likewise, when the Vikings sack chruches and killed Christains routinely, they did not suffer too much from it, nor did the Huns when they went to Rome (Atilla dying a rather painless death on a very happy occasion).

5- Zeus has more than Thunderbolts- he at times transform people, transform into animals himself, smite people dead without the use of thunder, &c.



5- Odin Created earth, can see into the future and is the king of the other gods. In other words he created all other gods.
He is able to take on any form and communicate in person with his people something The god of the bible can not do.. (so who is more powerful.) He created everything like supposedly your god did, but he does not have your gods weakness of not being able to take on a form and communicate with his own creations. So Odin and Zeus better gods that the Single Jealous god of the bible.
It has been a long time but I do think I did read something about the christian god being hurt or weak to Iron.
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron - Judges 1:19"


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Posted 6/21/10

alupihan45 wrote:


shinto-male wrote:


About the Mass Murders

All the so called "mass murders" by God are done in the Old Testament. Let us start there.

God created a very good world. Not blemished by anything.

Genesis 1:31 "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day."

Now, every sin's punishment is death. That is God's way of correcting the world blemished. Since God is a holy God, he will not tolerate evil (none of God's killing are out of random). The only way he can make the world a good place again is to eradicate beings that do or causes evil.

That is why it was said that men was doomed to death. However, there was a way to be pardoned in the Old Testament that is sacrificing a first born lamb. Through out the Old testament, men kept on sinning and many lambs are killed for that (lol) and God had enough. He (through the prophets) promised that he will send as a Lamb that will atone everyone from their sin and their will be no more sacrifices.

That is when Jesus came. He was sent as the Lamb of God. Now that Jesus was made a sacrifice so that all sinners may be forgiven and live. That also explains why in the New Testament, God doesn't kill anymore.



you surely display a lack of empathy for your fellow human beings and belief in scapegoating, which removes the concept of personal responsibility. Speaking of sin according to the bible it was god's fault he placed an unguarded tree, made Adam and Eve with no knowledge of right and wrong allowed an evil serpent to roam free and tell them to eat form the tree and God allow humanity to born defective and use threats of eternal damnation commanding us to be well. your god screw up from the beginning so why is he punishing humans struggling to service on a rock for his incompetence? you call this love I call this a totalitarian celestial dictatorship a government which humans have no say in, cannot vote out, cannot change ,watching us 24/7 while we are sleeping, and can convict us of thought crimes and a system that don't use Juries, lawyers, appeals, paroles and pardons.



still pissed what happened before A.D.?

logic wise, so if i put a blueberry cheese cake on the table and you ate it and if i got angry, you'll blame me for putting a food there?

we don't know for sure why God put a tree like that. it could be a.) he has future plans for it b.) he meant to give it to men in the future. there could be a lot of reasons but we can just speculate but it was not written that the tree was put there so that men will sin





no i am pissed that you have no empathy for other people using religion as an excuse and expect the rest of us to believe this nonsense and you failed at logic Adam and Eve NEVER new right from wrong. they did not know eating from the tree is wrong so why are they blamed for god creating them defective? and if you don't want others to eat your cake YOU WOULD NOT LEAVE IT IN THE OPEN WITHOUT A WARNING SAYING DO NOT EAT IT you do realise you and your religion religion does not make any sense
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Various mistakes about nature

Rain
Imagine you don't know anything about the world, sky, rain, or nature in general. If water starts to fall on you from above you will start to wonder where it is coming from. As you look up you will notice that just above the heavens is a massive blue body in the sky, blue like the sea. It water falls from the blue body above it would only be logical to think it was another giant container of water like the sea. When rain falls it must be due to an opening in the heavens which separate us from the blue body above. This is how ancient man observed the sky and rain as depicted by many cultures. This is also how the Bible depicts it, coincidence?

According to Genesis rain is caused and stopped by the opening and closing of the windows and doors in the firmament (heavens). Also, the big blue sky is supposedly a pool of water identical to our big blue ocean.

Genesis 1:6-10 - "And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good."

Genesis 7:11-12 - "...the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth ..."

Genesis 8:2 - "The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;"








Stationary Earth
In Greek mythology of the time Earth was believed to be held in place by the god Atlas, in Christian mythology Earth is held in place, motionless, on top of pillars. Prior to knowledge of the Earth's orbit around the sun a stationary earth attacked to a foundation was a common belief for ancient man, one that has made its way into the Bible.

Earth's Foundation
Your house has a foundation but moving objects like a planet or hot air balloon do not. Job 38:6 however mentions Earth's foundation and despite wishful thinking by apologists this a literal foundation, the type of foundation something is attached to. "Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof."

Pillars Holding Up Earth
Prior to modern knowledge what held Earth in places was left up to our imaginations. Some say it rests upon a giant turtle, some say the back of god, and those where the Bible was written said a set of pillars. The Bible also says pillars hold up the planet, coincidence?

Samuel 2:8 tells us that the world has been set up pillars, "For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, And He has set the world upon them." This is where the phrase "pillars of the earth" comes from. Job 9:6 even mentions that these physical pillars tremble when the earth shakes. "Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble."

Earth Does Not/Cannot Move
Psalms 93:1 even flat out says that Earth doesn't move. "The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved."

1 Chronicles 16:30 - "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable."
Psalm 93:1 - "Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ..."
Psalm 96:10 - "He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ..."
Psalm 104:5 - "Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken."
Isaiah 45:18 - "...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast..."




The Moon
The Bible says the moon is a source of light just as ancient man believed it to be, coincidence? The moon looks like a source of light because it reflects the light shining from the sun but it does not produce its own light. If you shine a flashlight at a nickel it too will reflect the light but it still does magically turn the nickel into a source of light. Genesis 1:16 call the moon a lesser light but the Bible's misunderstanding of nature is made more obvious in Isaiah 13:10 where it mentions light belonging to the moon.

Genesis 1:16 - "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

Isaiah 13:10 - "moon shall not cause her light to shine."



The Sky
In most ancient cultures the sky was thought to been draped over the earth like a curtain or tent. This belief was common in the Mesopotamian area, man thought if you walked to the edge of the earth you would smack into the sky much like how you would smack into the sides of tent if you roll around too much. The Bible describes the sky in the same manner, coincidence?

Isaiah 40:22 - "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."





According to the Bible, the pattern on animals can be changed just by having them look at different patterns. Unlike chameleons this pattern change alters the animal's genetics and is passed down to its offspring. In Genesis 30:37-43 Jacob has his cattle view a striped rod, resulting in the cattle having a new striped pattern.

According to the Bible, slugs leave a trail of slime because they are melting.

Psalm 58:8 - "Like a slug melting away as it moves along..."




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Posted 6/21/10

shinto-male wrote:




no i am pissed that you have no empathy for other people using religion as an excuse and expect the rest of us to believe this nonsense and you failed at logic Adam and Eve NEVER new right from wrong. they did not know eating from the tree is wrong so why are they blamed for god creating them defective? and if you don't want others to eat your cake YOU WOULD NOT LEAVE IT IN THE OPEN WITHOUT A WARNING SAYING DO NOT EAT IT you do realise you and your religion religion does not make any sense


how did i used religion as an excuse?

There was an instruction not to eat it. Humans were not defective in the first place. It was the serpent that tricked Eve.

About the cake thing, so you would eat it even if it is not yours? that, sir, doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense because all you have is a handful of information about us. The three threads I composed are not even half of it.

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Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong and why is a loving god allowing an "evil" talking serpent to be on the loose in the first place why didn't god give adam and eve the knowledge of good and evil in the first place? is god against humans seeking knowledge? that's the conclusion i get from this story.


and no i would not eat the cake because i already know right from wrong


Let's take a closer look at the story of Adam and Eve; God creates a paradise called the Garden of Eden. He fills it with all sorts of critters, gives it a beautiful backdrop and makes it home to Adam and Eve. These two are said to be the first humans that are of pure and total innocents. They have no idea of what right and wrong is since they have not eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God places this very tree in the middle of the garden, covers it with irresistible fruit and then tells them not to eat from it for they will surely die. Adam and Eve were later tricked by a serpent to eat from the tree and then God punished them and all of their decedents for doing so.

Adam and Eve were actually innocent for they didn't know what they were doing was wrong. Yes, God told them not to eat of the tree but they didn't know it was wrong to disobey him. Before eating of the tree man had no clue of what right and wrong was. Without knowing if it was wrong or not one could argue that they were at least warned by the threat of death. But how can they know death is bad if they have never experienced anyone dying before? Long story short, because two innocent people who didn't even understand the consequences of what they were doing was wrong God punishes not just them but also all of their decedents.





Done, Someone Had to Pay
Some try to ignore that God wrongfully accused and punished the innocent Adam & Eve by comparing the story to a car accident. If someone accidentally crashed into your car you could "just forgive them" but your car is still damaged and someone still needs to pay to have it fixed. This defense for God works if you don't think about it but once you do it is full of holes. The punishment was not to pay for any physical damage, the apple can be replaced. It was to pay for disobeying God.

But "sin" was the damage and it can only be cured by someone being punished? If that is the case why punish the innocent for it? God is the one to blame, he created evil since is the creator of everything, he set up the trap, he was the only one who knew better, he allowed the serpent to be there, he knew they would be tricked and he is the only one to blame.

This is not a story of the first people on earth, it is a story of submission to authority and a threat to those who seek knowledge for themselves. The reason could not be any clearer of why the Church selected this particular story for their Holy books.



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Posted 6/21/10
This is a cross post from Religion vs. Science but I think it applies to the current state of the discussion.

Of course some of you may not read because I didn't quote you. But I'm not responsible for your intellectual negligence.


-----------------From Religion Vs. Science-----------------

This conflict, such as it is. began with religious leaders persecuting observers of the natural world because said observers drew a conclusion that conflicted with, not necessarily the Bible, but some orthodoxy derived from fallible human interpretations and extrapolations of biblical passages.

Few people deny today that the world is round, rotates around it's own axis and orbits the our star, the sun in an elliptical path. In the fifteen hundreds some parts of that were heresy and as such a defiance of god that needed to be removed, by torture and flame if necessary.

While I concede there are secularists in this world who verbally attack the religious at many turns because the religious do not suscribe to said secularists own blind faith in Technology and Science. The majority of time that this nonsensical battle comes about is because the champions of religion choose to fight it.

Of course this only hurts their cause, if they truly seek the acceptance of others.

Edit: a quote and recap of the context (ie look under the spoilers if you want to know why some things were said.)

MorganAditi wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:




-----

If I were going to find fault generally in this world, (ie not necessarily just on this forum) with the fact that it is a debate. Honesty obliges me to point to religion and say "They started it"



also.. uhmm yeah 'they' started it XD the.. Pope? religion was there before science, wasn't it? so.. yeah XD

P.s. One could possibly fight butterflies with whipped cream... ? (I already see whipped cream flying <3)
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Posted 6/21/10 , edited 6/21/10

orangeflute wrote:


1- Everything about the bible.

2- I did, it is even more idiotic than you. God is all powerful, he is also all good. Therefore there shouldn't exist evil, or any being resembling evil. God has an equal power to create and destroy. Why then, is there still evil in the form of the 'Opposer'? Logically, it makes no sense at all. But, you may reply by saying something to the effect of 'God wish us not to know these things', then we may all go back to the Middle Ages, and live happily ever after.

Also, the Old Testament is simply a record of God's childishness and Pettiness, and I don't think that I would need to furnish any examples, seeing as thus is the subject of the whole book.

3- God tells you 'Jump off a very steep cliff' your frist reaction would be 'Why?', thence God will turn you to stone.

If I were to drink poison, who is to say I am not doing it on purpose? And who are you to interfere with my free will? I may take in minute amounts poison as medicine, or I may wish my life over. I may be testing out the story of Mithridates. Either way, I should not let some poor fool under the delusion that he is always right, and that he is the personal representative of God and the Crusader against all of heathendom tell me what I should do to myself.

4- Now you know my objection to paranoid schzoids who claim divinity, or, as you would call them, 'Men of God'.

What is righteousness? Who set the guidelines? What is holiness? “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple“ (Luke 14: 26), I doubt that this is righteous, and Confucius says so. Who is to say that kicking people in the balls is not righteous or holy?

Concerning Martyrs, Rome fell, I don't know, after they embraced Christianity. And it took God a damn long while. Israel was the Romans before they were expelled, then people came into that land, and then those people eventually accepted Islam. So, God was a little too early when he delivered Israel into the hands of its enemies as retribution to Jesus. Likewise, when the Vikings sack chruches and killed Christains routinely, they did not suffer too much from it, nor did the Huns when they went to Rome (Atilla dying a rather painless death on a very happy occasion).

5- Zeus has more than Thunderbolts- he at times transform people, transform into animals himself, smite people dead without the use of thunder, &c.


1- if God made everything perfect like Him what do you think we would look like? what the world would look like? I mean imagine everything self sufficient that we don't need anything. In case of us humans, imagine a perfect "human" (we may not call it human anymore but a god). They will have no body since the body is not a perfect thing- it hungers, it feels sick, it thirst, it ages etc. A perfect human has no problem getting what they want so a perfect human would be omnipotent. A perfect human would not be ignorant and he would be omniscient. A perfect human will have no problem going anywhere so he would be omnipresent.

Imagine earth a perfect place. It would be self sufficient so it doesn't need the sun and the moon anymore. It doesn't need to revolve and rotate anymore since the sun and moon are not needed.

Did that occur to your mind?

2. I thought you understood the reason behind the so called mass murders (God did reset the world to eradicate evil) in the old testament. why are we repeating the issue again? Didn't it occurred to you that in the process of destroying evil, mankind would be terminated along with it? God is just being merciful and people are taking advantage of it. If it wasn't for the covenants, humans have been dead for a long time already.
And who said evil would not be destroyed by God? With Jesus, God ismaking a final call. People must repent that they have sin and they will be forgiven. When the time of judgment comes, (and the signs are getting clear) God will free the believers from their sinful body and they will be made in perfection (like in number 1) and the unbeliever would be destroyed-their sinful body and their soul (God is a loving god. How could He torment humans in hell eternally?)

The world would be destroyed too.

Now, do you still think that God will not destroy evil? Think again.

3. Why would God turn me into a stone if I ask why? And who was turned into stone again?(since you raise the "stone")

Moses and Mary did the same. They were not made into stone.


Either way, I should not let some poor fool under the delusion that he is always right, and that he is the personal representative of God and the Crusader against all of heathendom tell me what I should do to myself.


you said that and not me. Did I claimed I am the personal representative of God? the answer is no. Did I claim I am the Crusader against heathendom? The answer is no. Did I claim, I am always right? The answer is no. What is in the quotation is uncalled for but I will endure the treatment for I know it is a defense mechanism-a normal human reaction.

4- It seems you initial response to other people is to mock them.. maybe that is why you are worried about this issue-that is-mocking a man of God. Did you experiment on this idea already? Just curious.

What is righteousness? It is doing the right thing.
Who sets the guidelines? To us Christians, it is God.
What is holiness? Simply living belonging to God.

About the verse you mention, You don't even understand the context of the verse. You should have read the whole chapter too. It would be like cherry picking if you exclude the other parts.

The verse is about being a Disciple who is willing to leave their family. In an oversimplified layman's term- the applicant should be willing to change location

Who is to say that kicking people in the balls is not righteous or holy? Go figure. I think you are just trolling around and i'm feeding you too much

About the martyrs, so what? God should level with human timing?(even if i post biblical text that God doesn't conform to human time, you will just troll around). Where are the vikings' kingdom anyway? Where are the hunnic empire? So what if Atilla didn't died a painless death-having a severe epistaxis and choking to death or having a liver problem-probably cirrhosis? For a person to die like that, I think Atilla didn't died fitting for his name "The Scourge of God". He just dropped dead.

5. well, zeus owes his existence to Cronus. And zeus can't create men. Also if, zeus is real, Atlas would have been real. So far, astronauts found no man supporting the earth on his shoulder.

The christian God doesn't owe anything to anyone nor does he need anything from anyone

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Posted 6/21/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


5- Odin Created earth, can see into the future and is the king of the other gods. In other words he created all other gods.
He is able to take on any form and communicate in person with his people something The god of the bible can not do.. (so who is more powerful.) He created everything like supposedly your god did, but he does not have your gods weakness of not being able to take on a form and communicate with his own creations. So Odin and Zeus better gods that the Single Jealous god of the bible.
It has been a long time but I do think I did read something about the christian god being hurt or weak to Iron.
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron - Judges 1:19"




on the contrary, God did walk in the land and he too communicated directly to men. The best example of this communication is Moses.

Also you misread the verse. Judge 1:19 "The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots."

God was not afraid of iron. Judah just can't stop the enemies in an open field with chariots.

Also, if the norse myth is real, astronaut didn't found any tree supporting the earth
If the Greek myth is real, astronauts didn't found any man supporting the earth
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oooh.... I think going THERE was mistake.
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Posted 6/21/10 , edited 6/21/10

alupihan45 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


5- Odin Created earth, can see into the future and is the king of the other gods. In other words he created all other gods.
He is able to take on any form and communicate in person with his people something The god of the bible can not do.. (so who is more powerful.) He created everything like supposedly your god did, but he does not have your gods weakness of not being able to take on a form and communicate with his own creations. So Odin and Zeus better gods that the Single Jealous god of the bible.
It has been a long time but I do think I did read something about the christian god being hurt or weak to Iron.
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron - Judges 1:19"




on the contrary, God did walk in the land and he too communicated directly to men. The best example of this communication is Moses.

Also you misread the verse. Judge 1:19 "The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots."

God was not afraid of iron. Judah just can't stop the enemies in an open field with chariots.

Also, if the norse myth is real, astronaut didn't found any tree supporting the earth
If the Greek myth is real, astronauts didn't found any man supporting the earth


So earth is flat, and has a giant Ice dome over us like a snow globe?.. like the bible points out instead?
christian god is no more likely than any other god!
Once you come to this realization you might see things more clearly.
In other words How can you blindly praise on god yet claim all other gods are fake wen you your self have no evidence to back your Gods existence?


On another note I trapped you... Because in the bible it points out that God can not be seen.
Exodus 33:20 Thou canst not see my face - A full discovery of the glory of God would quite overpower the faculties of any mortal man. I will make all my goodness pass before thee - He had given him wonderful instances of his goodness in being reconciled to Israel; but that was only goodness in the stream, he would shew him goodness in the spring. This was a sufficient answer to his request: Shew me thy glory, saith Moses; I will shew thee my goodness, saith God. God's goodness is his glory; and he will have us to know him by the glory of his mercy, more than by the glory of his majesty. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious - In bestowing his gifts, and is not debtor to any, nor accountable to any; all his reasons of mercy are fetched from within himself, not from any merit in his creatures, and I will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy - For his grace is always free. He never damns by prerogative, but by prerogative he saves.

Basically what that is saying. Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
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1- Where's the objection? Would that not be what God would want? But that is irrelevent because the subject was on the various idiocy, contridiction, and faliability of the Bible, which, as of yet, you only manage to dodge with nonsensical comments.

2- The reason you provided is like killing a child who is unintentionally disobidient. Also, isn't he going to wipe out mankind anyways (Revelations), eradicating those he deemed unfit and lifting the souls of those he saw fit. So what's the point?

But, you fail to answer any questions, seeing as he could make the human consitution free from evil, and thus, free from all his rules to begin with. In addition, you mention that he can't destroy evil without destroying mankind, then follow by saying he will destroy evil and, in turn, mankind. I would recomend educational insitutions to church if this is the logic your churches produce.

3- So, if he likes them enough, he will give them answers, but if he doesn't, he will punish them in an over the top fashion, that somehow involves you, and your family. Good job, Jesus-man, you just made God sillier than he already is, which is saying alot.

Also, you are not 'enduring your treatment', in that if you are, you would not protest it. But, you are protesting it, and rather vehemently too. So, you are not 'enduring your treatment', therefore you are not some sort of martyr that I, the big bad skeptic, am oppressing. And you still did not answer my question as to why I should listen to you when I am drinking poison.

4- Wow! That was simply and unbelievably idiotic.

- What is right? Is female circumsision right? Are Honour Killings correct? You can't have some nonsense answer as 'doing what is right' because that is not an answer.

- And how do you know what God sets up unless through a prophet? And if I were the prophet and I claim that God, or Krishna or whoever, wants us to kick each other in the balls, who are you to say that I am wrong? But, I suppose the simple guideline for you is 'If I, Alupihan, disagree with it, and my church disagree with it, then it must not be God's teaching.'

- Simply living belonging to God. I am sure that everyone then is holy with your definition. I am living. I, according to your theology, already belong to God. Why then, am I not canonised as a saint?

About my quote-
That particular verse is followed by how Jesus will ruin families, turn fathers against sons and all that. I am sure that I can't misinterpret that, even if I am not an accomplished theologians like yourself. Then he uses the word 'HATE', and say that one must 'HATE' their families to be with him. Now, I am sure that various other words, less strong and violent, can be used like, one must 'prefer me to their family' or one must 'love me more than their family', which, although still bad, is not 'HATE'.

God was far off in his punishment, and, indeed, Christianity is one of the many things that weaken Rome. I guess that should be proof as to the greatness of the Greek/Roman Pantheon.

Atilla was pissed drunk, sloshed, completely wasted, intoxicated, &c. when he died, and he died on his wedding day, with his marriage to a beautiful woman. I find such deaths to be rather confortable and painless.

The Vikings had several colonies, in Greenland, America, and Iceland, and, although with small kingdoms, were still the scourge of all of Christiandom. You don't need to have a united Kingdom to be great, especially when you live in a tribal culture as theirs.

5- He was born of Cronos, so what? Jesus owes his existence to Yahweh. And Zeus did create a person, her name is Pandora.

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Posted 6/21/10

alupihan45 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


5- Odin Created earth, can see into the future and is the king of the other gods. In other words he created all other gods.
He is able to take on any form and communicate in person with his people something The god of the bible can not do.. (so who is more powerful.) He created everything like supposedly your god did, but he does not have your gods weakness of not being able to take on a form and communicate with his own creations. So Odin and Zeus better gods that the Single Jealous god of the bible.
It has been a long time but I do think I did read something about the christian god being hurt or weak to Iron.
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron - Judges 1:19"




on the contrary, God did walk in the land and he too communicated directly to men. The best example of this communication is Moses.

Also you misread the verse. Judge 1:19 "The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots."

God was not afraid of iron. Judah just can't stop the enemies in an open field with chariots.

Also, if the norse myth is real, astronaut didn't found any tree supporting the earth
If the Greek myth is real, astronauts didn't found any man supporting the earth


And astronauts now know that stars can't literally fall off the sky like cheap christmas ornaments off a wilted and browning tree as proclaimed in Revelation. Good going, John of Patmos!
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Posted 6/21/10 , edited 6/21/10

alupihan45 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


5- Odin Created earth, can see into the future and is the king of the other gods. In other words he created all other gods.
He is able to take on any form and communicate in person with his people something The god of the bible can not do.. (so who is more powerful.) He created everything like supposedly your god did, but he does not have your gods weakness of not being able to take on a form and communicate with his own creations. So Odin and Zeus better gods that the Single Jealous god of the bible.
It has been a long time but I do think I did read something about the christian god being hurt or weak to Iron.
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron - Judges 1:19"




on the contrary, God did walk in the land and he too communicated directly to men. The best example of this communication is Moses.

Also you misread the verse. Judge 1:19 "The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots."

God was not afraid of iron. Judah just can't stop the enemies in an open field with chariots.

Also, if the norse myth is real, astronaut didn't found any tree supporting the earth
If the Greek myth is real, astronauts didn't found any man supporting the earth


About Norse myth, how do you know that space is not just a part of Midgard, and that, whence our technology become much more advance, we will see a great snake encircling the universe, and a grand tree protruding out of the middle of this great mass of stars, planets, and black nothingness.
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Posted 6/21/10

orangeflute wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


5- Odin Created earth, can see into the future and is the king of the other gods. In other words he created all other gods.
He is able to take on any form and communicate in person with his people something The god of the bible can not do.. (so who is more powerful.) He created everything like supposedly your god did, but he does not have your gods weakness of not being able to take on a form and communicate with his own creations. So Odin and Zeus better gods that the Single Jealous god of the bible.
It has been a long time but I do think I did read something about the christian god being hurt or weak to Iron.
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron - Judges 1:19"




on the contrary, God did walk in the land and he too communicated directly to men. The best example of this communication is Moses.

Also you misread the verse. Judge 1:19 "The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots."

God was not afraid of iron. Judah just can't stop the enemies in an open field with chariots.

Also, if the norse myth is real, astronaut didn't found any tree supporting the earth
If the Greek myth is real, astronauts didn't found any man supporting the earth


About Norse myth, how do you know that space is not just a part of Midgard, and that, whence our technology become much more advance, we will see a great snake encircling the universe, and a grand tree protruding out of the middle of this great mass of stars, planets, and black nothingness.


with out technology, we should have at least detected Jormungand as it was said, "The serpent grew so large that he was able to surround the Earth and grasp his own tail."
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