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"If God(Jesus) Created Everything, Who Created God?" Is A Question Non-believeres Ask
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Posted 6/23/10

DomFortress wrote:

A God who approves slavery is no creator, but a creation to justify the fallacy of men. And that's a fact throughout the history of human religion, when those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it as a pattern of self-deception.

So who cares about your God? When you as a slave don't even know yourself as well as you knowing a metaphysical "nobody" of a slave master.


Darling, you don't know what you are saying. You said who allow slavery? God? God does not allow slavery. We are all given freedom of choice. Why wouldn't God have created a perfect universe in the first place? you may ask, but shows a lack of understanding of the biblical reason of why God created the universe. One can find the reason for the creation of the universe in the first few chapters of the Bible. God created humans in order to have a personal relationship with them, which He had with Adam and Eve before they sinned (Genesis 2). Jesus said that the first and foremost commandment was to "Love the Lord your God..." A personal relationship, characterized by the possibility of love, is only possible if created beings are given free will. If God had created the universe with no possibility of evil or sin, then the created beings would have had no free will, and, as such, would essentially be programmed computers. Such beings would be incapable of love, since love involves making a choice - which requires the ability to choose not to love. For example, I can program my computer to say "I love you" when it starts up. Does this mean that the computer really loves me? Of course not! Likewise, God could have programmed humans to say that they loved Him, without the possibility of rejecting Him or performing evil deeds. However, these programmed beings would exhibit about as much true love as my computer not a very satisfying relationship. Therefore, God created the universe for the express purpose of allowing free will spiritual beings the opportunity to have fellowship with Him (and likewise, reject Him).

That's why sin is allow unto this world.

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Posted 6/23/10
I find the discussion about the existing of God between a believer and a believer in the evolution theory kind of pointless. The believer will hold on to the fact he/she believes he exist altho there's no proof of him whatsoever. Apparently they don't need it and so we were born with a free will so we can believe anything we want. Same thing with believing in ghosts tbh. I think the bible kinda is like a fairytale that doesn't make sense at all, but that's my opinion, for others that whole thing does make sense that people can rise up from the dead like zombies in movies can. The church is open for everyone, except homosexuals. So that says enough to me already.

I believe in the evolution theory and there is no such thing as a God somewhere, the bible was written by people that are already dead thousands of years ago and is changed over all those years like a million time, so no, I would never believe a word that is put in there. And my believe is that people that think there is a God that it's just a character that was created a thousand years ago so people could hold on to sómething. Like kids do with imaginary friends. But God is the adult version.


Excuses if I hurted or insulted anybody with this, but this is just MY opinion and it won't change doesn't matter what you say. And yes I know, atheist people aren't loved blabla. I don't care, I am one and this how I think about believes and God/bible stuff.
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Posted 6/23/10 , edited 6/23/10

popcornpuffs wrote:



We did not ADAPT. Why are there apes in this world who have not still evolved yet?


Okay, how shall I put this. Apes are just as evolved as we are. Just in a different direction. There is no creature that 'hasn't evolved yet' Apes (or chimps or any other apelike creature ) are COUSINS (ie NOT ancestors) and are fully adapted to the conditions that evolved them as are we. This is commonly understood among even non-science majors like myself.

again where do you get the assertion that three main branches of science PROVE evolution to be impossible. (something science doesn't do well btw, prove a negative) it sounds to me like something you were TOLD by a non-scientist.

---EDIT---

This is what bugs me. I really don't care WHAT you believe as long as your beliefs don't incline you to martyr yourself with an AK 47 or an explosive vest in a shopping mall. I really don't care. More importantly under the same caveat, MY beliefs are none of your business.

But, Science really shouldn't be brought into religion. No scientist worth his credentials would EVER make a sweeping statement that three broad fields of study PRECLUDE evolution. Even if there were doubts about evolution or it's details they'd be expressed as doubts and avenues for further investigation not sweeping denials. Keep religion with Religion and Science with Science. The two only meet when someone get's upset that an observable phenomenon disagrees with something in someone's holy book. That's NOT science's problem that's religion's.

---Note: expanded upon edit----



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Posted 6/23/10

azn_kawaii wrote:

jusus was not god..he was the son of god, the messiah, prophet as you may say....and no onec crested god....god is like an untouchable feeling we have within us..like for e.,g. love...u cant say who created love...you cannot touch it...but you can feel it and know that it exists...

No, you are wrong. Jesus is God, God came down as Jesus in human flesh. How is God the father going to come unto the Earth without causing God is not restricted to our limitations and could choose to reveal part of Himself to us. God could not reveal His entirety to us without causing major problems in our universe. from outside the universe would destroy anything in the vicinity and maybe even destroy the entire universe. This is why the Bible says that nobody can see God and live. However, God could reveal His nature by communicating with humans and sending an incarnated version of Himself. This is exactly what Christianity claims - that God gave messages to humans (through the prophets) and sent an incarnation of Himself (His Son), who took on the form of a human in order to interact with humans directly.

We can only speak through God through the holy spirit.

Posted 6/23/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:



Okay now you're just slinging insults. It's not helping.
When the nature of reality doesn't care about human feelings, I personally find better use of my feelings to reflect upon human actions, that's caused by human beings' unrealistic paranoia and unreasonable fear. And that includes human expressions, bare none.
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Posted 6/23/10

Mafheid wrote:

I find the discussion about the existing of God between a believer and a believer in the evolution theory kind of pointless. The believer will hold on to the fact he/she believes he exist altho there's no proof of him whatsoever. Apparently they don't need it and so we were born with a free will so we can believe anything we want. Same thing with believing in ghosts tbh. I think the bible kinda is like a fairytale that doesn't make sense at all, but that's my opinion, for others that whole thing does make sense that people can rise up from the dead like zombies in movies can. The church is open for everyone, except homosexuals. So that says enough to me already.

I believe in the evolution theory and there is no such thing as a God somewhere, the bible was written by people that are already dead thousands of years ago and is changed over all those years like a million time, so no, I would never believe a word that is put in there. And my believe is that people that think there is a God that it's just a character that was created a thousand years ago so people could hold on to sómething. Like kids do with imaginary friends. But God is the adult version.


Excuses if I hurted or insulted anybody with this, but this is just MY opinion and it won't change doesn't matter what you say. And yes I know, atheist people aren't loved blabla. I don't care, I am one and this how I think about believes and God/bible stuff.


You're absolutely right about the inviolability of the rock solid opinions around here. I personally believe we should all believe what we like as as those beliefs don't drive us to harm our neighbours.

I just hate it when people make blind assertions about science that have no basis in the collective published opinions of scientists.


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Posted 6/23/10 , edited 6/23/10

azn_kawaii wrote:

jusus was not god..he was the son of god, the messiah, prophet as you may say....and no onec crested god....god is like an untouchable feeling we have within us..like for e.,g. love...u cant say who created love...you cannot touch it...but you can feel it and know that it exists...

No, you are wrong. Jesus is God, God came down as Jesus in human flesh. How is God the father going to come unto the Earth without causing major problems in our universe. from outside the universe would destroy anything in the vicinity and maybe even destroy the entire universe. This is why the Bible says that nobody can see God and live. However, God could reveal His nature by communicating with humans and sending an incarnated version of Himself. This is exactly what Christianity claims - that God gave messages to humans (through the prophets) and sent an incarnation of Himself (His Son), who took on the form of a human in order to interact with humans directly.

We can only speak through God through the holy spirit.
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Posted 6/23/10

popcornpuffs wrote:


azn_kawaii wrote:

jusus was not god..he was the son of god, the messiah, prophet as you may say....and no onec crested god....god is like an untouchable feeling we have within us..like for e.,g. love...u cant say who created love...you cannot touch it...but you can feel it and know that it exists...

No, you are wrong. Jesus is God, God came down as Jesus in human flesh. How is God the father going to come unto the Earth without causing God is not restricted to our limitations and could choose to reveal part of Himself to us. God could not reveal His entirety to us without causing major problems in our universe. from outside the universe would destroy anything in the vicinity and maybe even destroy the entire universe. This is why the Bible says that nobody can see God and live. However, God could reveal His nature by communicating with humans and sending an incarnated version of Himself. This is exactly what Christianity claims - that God gave messages to humans (through the prophets) and sent an incarnation of Himself (His Son), who took on the form of a human in order to interact with humans directly.

We can only speak through God through the holy spirit.


jesus is shown as a human in gospels...and he was the messiah who would serve rather than be served...
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Posted 6/23/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


popcornpuffs wrote:



We did not ADAPT. Why are there apes in this world who have not still evolved yet?


Okay, how shall I put this. Apes are just as evolved as we are. Just in a different direction. There is no creature that 'hasn't evolved yet' Apes (or chimps or any other apelike creature ) are COUSINS (ie NOT ancestors) and are fully adapted to the conditions that evolved them as are we. This is commonly understood among even non-science majors like myself.

again where do you get the assertion that three main branches of science PROVE evolution to be impossible. (something science doesn't do well btw, prove a negative) it sounds to me like something you were TOLD by a non-scientist.

---EDIT---

This is what bugs me. I really don't care WHAT you believe as long as your beliefs don't incline you to matyr yourself with an AK 47 or an explosive vest in a shopping mall I really don't care. More importantly under the same caveat, MY beliefs are non of your business.

But, Science really shouldn't be brought into religion. No scientist worth his credentials would EVER make a sweeping statement that three broad fields of study PRECLUDE evolution. Even if there were doubts about evolution or it's details they'd be expressed as doubts and avenues for further investigation not sweeping denials. Keep religion with Religion and Science with Science. The two only meet when someone get's upset that an observable phenomenon disagrees with something in someone's holy book. That's NOT science's problem that's religion's.

---Note: expanded upon edit----




Evolution is still missing that missing link, go back to school for a while, we have a few new things going on, DNA, Amino acid sequences and much more. We have irreducibly complex mechanism's in our bodies that could not have evolved. Yes, we may share a common ancestor. But technically, we share a common ancestor to ever plant and animal. Primates just share a relatively close common ancestor. Humans are created by God in His Image and Likeness, and above all other creatures and living things that lives on this Earth.

If you want to consider yourself an ape then go ahead. Because you did evolve from one...
Posted 6/23/10 , edited 6/23/10

popcornpuffs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

A God who approves slavery is no creator, but a creation to justify the fallacy of men. And that's a fact throughout the history of human religion, when those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it as a pattern of self-deception.

So who cares about your God? When you as a slave don't even know yourself as well as you knowing a metaphysical "nobody" of a slave master.


Darling, you don't know what you are saying. You said who allow slavery? God? God does not allow slavery. We are all given freedom of choice. Why wouldn't God have created a perfect universe in the first place? you may ask, but shows a lack of understanding of the biblical reason of why God created the universe. One can find the reason for the creation of the universe in the first few chapters of the Bible. God created humans in order to have a personal relationship with them, which He had with Adam and Eve before they sinned (Genesis 2). Jesus said that the first and foremost commandment was to "Love the Lord your God..." A personal relationship, characterized by the possibility of love, is only possible if created beings are given free will. If God had created the universe with no possibility of evil or sin, then the created beings would have had no free will, and, as such, would essentially be programmed computers. Such beings would be incapable of love, since love involves making a choice - which requires the ability to choose not to love. For example, I can program my computer to say "I love you" when it starts up. Does this mean that the computer really loves me? Of course not! Likewise, God could have programmed humans to say that they loved Him, without the possibility of rejecting Him or performing evil deeds. However, these programmed beings would exhibit about as much true love as my computer not a very satisfying relationship. Therefore, God created the universe for the express purpose of allowing free will spiritual beings the opportunity to have fellowship with Him (and likewise, reject Him).

That's why sin is allow unto this world.
The fact still remains that Christianity was used as an ideology to assimilate and subjugate humanity throughout the history of human civilization. And the reality that it worked by indoctrinating human individuals into Christians, is in and of itself the indisputable proof that human will can be manipulated via socialization. So don't you dare desecrate freedom with your expression being manipulated by a mere ideology, when you're not even free nor thinking critically for yourself.
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Posted 6/23/10

Mafheid wrote:

I find the discussion about the existing of God between a believer and a believer in the evolution theory kind of pointless. The believer will hold on to the fact he/she believes he exist altho there's no proof of him whatsoever. Apparently they don't need it and so we were born with a free will so we can believe anything we want. Same thing with believing in ghosts tbh. I think the bible kinda is like a fairytale that doesn't make sense at all, but that's my opinion, for others that whole thing does make sense that people can rise up from the dead like zombies in movies can. The church is open for everyone, except homosexuals. So that says enough to me already.

I believe in the evolution theory and there is no such thing as a God somewhere, the bible was written by people that are already dead thousands of years ago and is changed over all those years like a million time, so no, I would never believe a word that is put in there. And my believe is that people that think there is a God that it's just a character that was created a thousand years ago so people could hold on to sómething. Like kids do with imaginary friends. But God is the adult version.


Excuses if I hurted or insulted anybody with this, but this is just MY opinion and it won't change doesn't matter what you say. And yes I know, atheist people aren't loved blabla. I don't care, I am one and this how I think about believes and God/bible stuff.

So basically you are saying the bible was created because of people fearing death? Not true. The bible teach us not to be afraid odf death. Also with the homosexuality, today's society is like that. God, would want everybody to seek him. God loves everyone and everyone is equal. I personally do not go to church, I only meditate through the bible. Most church aren't teachign the right stuff and leading you the wrong way. Most church say people who are gay will go to hell and have no chance, NOT TRUE. That's Satan plan in order to make gay people not seek him, God wants to be seeked.
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Posted 6/23/10

popcornpuffs wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


popcornpuffs wrote:



We did not ADAPT. Why are there apes in this world who have not still evolved yet?


Okay, how shall I put this. Apes are just as evolved as we are. Just in a different direction. There is no creature that 'hasn't evolved yet' Apes (or chimps or any other apelike creature ) are COUSINS (ie NOT ancestors) and are fully adapted to the conditions that evolved them as are we. This is commonly understood among even non-science majors like myself.

again where do you get the assertion that three main branches of science PROVE evolution to be impossible. (something science doesn't do well btw, prove a negative) it sounds to me like something you were TOLD by a non-scientist.

---EDIT---

This is what bugs me. I really don't care WHAT you believe as long as your beliefs don't incline you to matyr yourself with an AK 47 or an explosive vest in a shopping mall I really don't care. More importantly under the same caveat, MY beliefs are non of your business.

But, Science really shouldn't be brought into religion. No scientist worth his credentials would EVER make a sweeping statement that three broad fields of study PRECLUDE evolution. Even if there were doubts about evolution or it's details they'd be expressed as doubts and avenues for further investigation not sweeping denials. Keep religion with Religion and Science with Science. The two only meet when someone get's upset that an observable phenomenon disagrees with something in someone's holy book. That's NOT science's problem that's religion's.

---Note: expanded upon edit----




Evolution is still missing that missing link, go back to school for a while, we have a few new things going on, DNA, Amino acid sequences and much more. We have irreducibly complex mechanism's in our bodies that could not have evolved. Yes, we may share a common ancestor. But technically, we share a common ancestor to ever plant and animal. Primates just share a relatively close common ancestor. Humans are created by God in His Image and Likeness, and above all other creatures and living things that lives on this Earth.

If you want to consider yourself an ape then go ahead. Because you did evolve from one...


So... you're saying that evolution does exist, and now you'd like to call me an ape.

what... I've lost your logic it looks like you're descending to insults as well. My last word here. Believe what you like about god. But don't manufacture scientific evidence to shore up your beliefs if faith is threatened by, or needs the support of, science it's stopped being faith.


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Posted 6/23/10

DomFortress wrote:


popcornpuffs wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

A God who approves slavery is no creator, but a creation to justify the fallacy of men. And that's a fact throughout the history of human religion, when those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it as a pattern of self-deception.

So who cares about your God? When you as a slave don't even know yourself as well as you knowing a metaphysical "nobody" of a slave master.


Darling, you don't know what you are saying. You said who allow slavery? God? God does not allow slavery. We are all given freedom of choice. Why wouldn't God have created a perfect universe in the first place? you may ask, but shows a lack of understanding of the biblical reason of why God created the universe. One can find the reason for the creation of the universe in the first few chapters of the Bible. God created humans in order to have a personal relationship with them, which He had with Adam and Eve before they sinned (Genesis 2). Jesus said that the first and foremost commandment was to "Love the Lord your God..." A personal relationship, characterized by the possibility of love, is only possible if created beings are given free will. If God had created the universe with no possibility of evil or sin, then the created beings would have had no free will, and, as such, would essentially be programmed computers. Such beings would be incapable of love, since love involves making a choice - which requires the ability to choose not to love. For example, I can program my computer to say "I love you" when it starts up. Does this mean that the computer really loves me? Of course not! Likewise, God could have programmed humans to say that they loved Him, without the possibility of rejecting Him or performing evil deeds. However, these programmed beings would exhibit about as much true love as my computer not a very satisfying relationship. Therefore, God created the universe for the express purpose of allowing free will spiritual beings the opportunity to have fellowship with Him (and likewise, reject Him).

That's why sin is allow unto this world.
The fact still remains that Christianity was used as an ideology to assimilate and subjugate humanity throughout the history of human civilization. And the reality that it worked by indoctrinating human individuals into Christians, is in and of itself the indisputable proof that human will can be manipulated via socialization. So don't you dare desecrate freedom with your expression being manipulated by a mere ideology, when you're not even free nor thinking critically for yourself.


Oh pls... I think for myself. You don't think for yourself. You are allowing science to hold on. Why don't you go outside and enjoy life? Walk out and view nature. View everything... because I dont think you'll find the answer sitting down using the computer. Talk to religious people, debate with them, reason and use your mind. The Bible encourages people to use their minds. In fact, the Bible says that God created humans and endowed them with a mind so that they would use it. The Bible says that God will test the minds (as well as the hearts) of people. One of the most important prophecies to Christianity, the prophecy of the New Covenant, fulfilled in the coming of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth,describes the changes God does in both the heart and the mind of those who are transformed. The Bible says that those who do not believe do so, in part, because of deception in their minds. This deception leads to hostility to God and defiling of their minds and consciences. The mind is also very important in the life of a Christian. The Christian is encouraged to set his "mind on the things above. We are also encouraged to direct our "mind to know, to investigate, and to seek wisdom and an explanation.

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Posted 6/23/10 , edited 6/23/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


popcornpuffs wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


popcornpuffs wrote:



We did not ADAPT. Why are there apes in this world who have not still evolved yet?


Okay, how shall I put this. Apes are just as evolved as we are. Just in a different direction. There is no creature that 'hasn't evolved yet' Apes (or chimps or any other apelike creature ) are COUSINS (ie NOT ancestors) and are fully adapted to the conditions that evolved them as are we. This is commonly understood among even non-science majors like myself.

again where do you get the assertion that three main branches of science PROVE evolution to be impossible. (something science doesn't do well btw, prove a negative) it sounds to me like something you were TOLD by a non-scientist.

---EDIT---

This is what bugs me. I really don't care WHAT you believe as long as your beliefs don't incline you to matyr yourself with an AK 47 or an explosive vest in a shopping mall I really don't care. More importantly under the same caveat, MY beliefs are non of your business.

But, Science really shouldn't be brought into religion. No scientist worth his credentials would EVER make a sweeping statement that three broad fields of study PRECLUDE evolution. Even if there were doubts about evolution or it's details they'd be expressed as doubts and avenues for further investigation not sweeping denials. Keep religion with Religion and Science with Science. The two only meet when someone get's upset that an observable phenomenon disagrees with something in someone's holy book. That's NOT science's problem that's religion's.

---Note: expanded upon edit----




Evolution is still missing that missing link, go back to school for a while, we have a few new things going on, DNA, Amino acid sequences and much more. We have irreducibly complex mechanism's in our bodies that could not have evolved. Yes, we may share a common ancestor. But technically, we share a common ancestor to ever plant and animal. Primates just share a relatively close common ancestor. Humans are created by God in His Image and Likeness, and above all other creatures and living things that lives on this Earth.

If you want to consider yourself an ape then go ahead. Because you did evolve from one...


So... you're saying that evolution does exist, and now you'd like to call me an ape.

what... I've lost your logic it looks like you're descending to insults as well. My last word here. Believe what you like about god. But don't manufacture scientific evidence to shore up your beliefs if faith is threatened by, or needs the support of, science it's stopped being faith.



Ok, look evolution does not exist. I didn't admit evolution exist. I said that Apes are closely related to us, BUT does not justify the fact that we evolved from them. Sry, but I'm not only debating with you, I'm debating with 3 other ppl.
Posted 6/23/10

popcornpuffs wrote:


Oh pls... I think for myself. You don't think for yourself. You are allowing science to hold on. Why don't you go outside and enjoy life? Walk out and view nature. View everything... because I dont think you'll find the answer sitting down using the computer. Talk to religious people, debate with them, reason and use your mind. The Bible encourages people to use their minds. In fact, the Bible says that God created humans and endowed them with a mind so that they would use it. The Bible says that God will test the minds (as well as the hearts) of people. One of the most important prophecies to Christianity, the prophecy of the New Covenant, fulfilled in the coming of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth,describes the changes God does in both the heart and the mind of those who are transformed. The Bible says that those who do not believe do so, in part, because of deception in their minds. This deception leads to hostility to God and defiling of their minds and consciences. The mind is also very important in the life of a Christian. The Christian is encouraged to set his "mind on the things above. We are also encouraged to direct our "mind to know, to investigate, and to seek wisdom and an explanation.

And would you had done the same for yourself without reading it from the Bible? When you can't prove it otherwise when you're already a Christian yourself, while you can't justify your own actions without you first "open" up the Bible, as oppose of you just open your mind like you had a self-awareness in the first place. And there's not an ounce of academic science in my statement, when it's all my own opinion by me observing your statement. So keep your own opinion on science out of it, when it's got nothing to do with my own opinion on the contradiction in your own expression.
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