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Exercise for the mind let us spark some synapses!
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Posted 6/25/10
Has anyone given thought to what would replace our economy. if such a machine brought the current one down?
maffoo 
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Posted 6/25/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

I must thank my ADD sometimes for the way I think.

I have created a exercise I like to test it on the people of the ED in Crunchyroll.

This is a challenge to take what I say and brake it up into a few brackets.

1. Try to figure out how this could work. And Rationalize it best you can.
2. Discus the implications of such a thing the good and the bad side affects.
3. Explain your personal view on what this could bring around. Changes, good or bad.
4. Any other Notes you like to add...

Now on to the object of scrutiny.

I today bring to your attentions on to a device that would allow you to take matter brake it down than restructure it into another form, allowing you to brake down matter from solar power than give it another form like H2O.. Or Metals.
Braking down Garbage or rocks to make for other Structures. I am going off the concept that matter than not be destroyed that matter can only be changed to other forms instead. And so A device that takes matter brakes it down and gives in another form. Hence creating Gold from Led, Food from Dirt, Metal from trash, and Clothing from feces.


I'm not sure about gold from lead, as it would involve tearing nucleons out of the nucleus which would take a huge amount of energy. I could however imagine a machine that could for example extract proteins from waste products, possibly some sort of chemical reaction to change them into something more useful. I suspect that the best we could get out of it is some sort of "food pill" rather than producing a nice meal, or a fibre that could be used to make clothing in place of existing fibres.

Assuming that something more akin to a Star Trek replicator could be produced, I would say that it could have good and bad effects. The good effect would be the ease of production of food and medicines, the bad effect would be the possibility of someone using it to produce weapons.

It would also make at least physical currency obsolete - if a £10 note could be reproduced exactly, money would become worthless. Same with precious metals - if gold can be replicated it becomes just a lump of soft, shiny, electrically conductive metal. Still useful, but no longer valuable. This would probably lead to social upheaval while people adapted, or possibly more reliance on "virtual" money, so everything would be done by card.

I would also expect an environmental impact. Such a machine would probably have massive energy requirements. If we couldn't power it largely from environmentally sound power sources, it would have a huge carbon footprint, and long term would create more problems than it solved.

maffoo 
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Posted 6/25/10

Allhailodin wrote:

At its simplest it would be a device that just neutralizes the strong force, the electrostatic repulsion of the protons in atoms would push the atom apart all on its own.


The difficulty there would be that unless the effect could be localised inside the machine it would instantly disintegrate as its own nuclei blew apart.

Such a machine would probably also need heavy shielding. The electrostatic repulsion of protons in a nucleus is very strong, so those protons would stream out of the thing at high speeds, possibly doing damage to any materials (including people) nearby.

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ooh... the classic 50's sci fi weapon. A Proton Gun.
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Posted 6/26/10
1. In organic chemistry, that is possible. Like protein converted to glucose and fatty acids to glucose. However, I do not know with regards to inorganic chemistry but someone here explained on another thread that uranium can be turned to plutonium.

More on the topic, I think alchemy, as they call it needs other forms of elements (fire, wind, water and earth). The problem is how can we imitate those so we can make a man made processes. I mean we've been making diamonds already with heat (tough it is not as beautiful as the original)

2. The pros:

a. Demands for certain material would be easily met
b. Of course, there would be more jobs

The cons:

a. Somehow, it will disturb the economies of all nations
b. There are always by products and most of the time, this by products are hazardous.

3. I fear such thing economic wise and environment wise. Economic because the rules of money would change again. Tough the impact may be short. Like the price of gold in the stock market would greatly decrease thus making a lot of investor lose money. Gold can be used in illegal transactions.

Environment wise, if the change are like in the organic chem, then there would be a by product that can harm. In body like fatty acids (simpliest form of fats), if it is converted to glucose, it has a by product of ketones. That ketones killed a lot of people already and still counting (diabetes patients usually dies with this) In inorganic chem, there could be other forms of acids, powders or gases but i don't know if all are poisonous to a living body.

4. If we have a safe dump site for possible waste products, go with it. If not, don't. The disadvantages outweighs the benefits.

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Posted 6/26/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Has anyone given thought to what would replace our economy. if such a machine brought the current one down?


The machine itself would replace the economy. Unlimited resources= no need to exchange resources. I can only imagine a few jobs like health professions, a legal system, and construction being necessary afterwards, but there wouldn't really be a way to pay those workers since they can get anything and everything from the machine.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

ooh... the classic 50's sci fi weapon. A Proton Gun.


Simple proton gun. It can be built from common stuff.



The +500,000 volts can be generated using a Voltage Multiplier in conjunction with a Flyback Transformer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_multiplier
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Posted 6/26/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Has anyone given thought to what would replace our economy. if such a machine brought the current one down?


The machine itself would replace the economy. Unlimited resources= no need to exchange resources. I can only imagine a few jobs like health professions, a legal system, and construction being necessary afterwards, but there wouldn't really be a way to pay those workers since they can get anything and everything from the machine.


MY point being... how do you think that would reshape society? our view of what matters... WHO matters?
Maybe artists would be the new elite and inventors engineers and MBAs would be starving in garrets as they scribbled their mad ideas?



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Posted 6/26/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Has anyone given thought to what would replace our economy. if such a machine brought the current one down?


The machine itself would replace the economy. Unlimited resources= no need to exchange resources. I can only imagine a few jobs like health professions, a legal system, and construction being necessary afterwards, but there wouldn't really be a way to pay those workers since they can get anything and everything from the machine.


Not truly unlimited, you would just be converting matter from one thing into another, there would still be the same amount of matter on earth there is now.
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Posted 6/26/10

Allhailodin wrote:

Not truly unlimited, you would just be converting matter from one thing into another, there would still be the same amount of matter on earth there is now.


Some things would be technically unlimited, like clean water. Just put urine in the machine and make it into water, then when it comes back out convert it again.
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Posted 6/26/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

Not truly unlimited, you would just be converting matter from one thing into another, there would still be the same amount of matter on earth there is now.


Some things would be technically unlimited, like clean water. Just put urine in the machine and make it into water, then when it comes back out convert it again.


Yes, but the actual amount of matter wouldn't change.
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Posted 6/26/10
Simplest way to explain the effects of such a machine globally would be; shit will happen. Wars would be fought over this machine, constant changing of hands, etc.
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Posted 6/27/10 , edited 6/27/10

Allhailodin wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Has anyone given thought to what would replace our economy. if such a machine brought the current one down?


The machine itself would replace the economy. Unlimited resources= no need to exchange resources. I can only imagine a few jobs like health professions, a legal system, and construction being necessary afterwards, but there wouldn't really be a way to pay those workers since they can get anything and everything from the machine.


Not truly unlimited, you would just be converting matter from one thing into another, there would still be the same amount of matter on earth there is now.


i think cuddlebuns is referring to unlimited supply of gold or other kinds of precious metal. If that happens, money as currency will grow weaker. In fact, the currency would be changed

It may be the abundance of rare raw materials that may cripple one's countries expert/import
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Posted 6/27/10 , edited 6/27/10

alupihan45 wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Has anyone given thought to what would replace our economy. if such a machine brought the current one down?


The machine itself would replace the economy. Unlimited resources= no need to exchange resources. I can only imagine a few jobs like health professions, a legal system, and construction being necessary afterwards, but there wouldn't really be a way to pay those workers since they can get anything and everything from the machine.


Not truly unlimited, you would just be converting matter from one thing into another, there would still be the same amount of matter on earth there is now.


i think cuddlebuns is referring to unlimited supply of gold or other kinds of precious metal. If that happens, money as currency will grow weaker. In fact, the currency would be changed

It may be the abundance of rare raw materials that may cripple one's countries expert/import


The concept of currency was illogical.
Ask me the entire idea of a economic system based on currency creates corruption, economical decay, and problems.

The fall of that system I see as a good thing.. Change sometimes can be good..
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Posted 6/27/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Has anyone given thought to what would replace our economy. if such a machine brought the current one down?


The machine itself would replace the economy. Unlimited resources= no need to exchange resources. I can only imagine a few jobs like health professions, a legal system, and construction being necessary afterwards, but there wouldn't really be a way to pay those workers since they can get anything and everything from the machine.


Not truly unlimited, you would just be converting matter from one thing into another, there would still be the same amount of matter on earth there is now.


i think cuddlebuns is referring to unlimited supply of gold or other kinds of precious metal. If that happens, money as currency will grow weaker. In fact, the currency would be changed

It may be the abundance of rare raw materials that may cripple one's countries expert/import


The concept of currency was illogical.
Ask me the entire idea of a economic system based on currency creates corruption, economical decay, and problems.

The fall of that system I see as a good thing.. Change sometimes can be good..


change is good. I know but not everyone will benefit from this. As the saying goes, " The rich will become richer and the poor becomes poorer."
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