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homophobia
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Posted 6/26/10

draw160 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

Who are you to be so critical of others for holding a certain set of, admittedly bigoted, beliefs. As long as they don't act on those beliefs and commit acts of violence against the object of their hatred or otherwise harm a member of the discriminated group, why should we criticise them for their values? Certainly some of your values are disdainful to the general public as well.

Also, in the work place, while racial and sexual discrimination is wrong, provided that gender/race does indeed interfere with said occupation, and credentials should take priority and all that, how can you distinguish between a homosexual person and a regular person? And if you find out later, how can you fire him without any reason?

Hateful speech and bigoted thoughts, while certainly disdainful and disgusting, are a necessary part of our democracy, and shall always exist as long as those great twin pillars of Free Thought and Free Speech stands.

Even if you don't like it, you should still appreciate it.



Land of Hope and Glory
Mother of the free
How shall we extol thee
We, who are born of thee
Wider and Wider shall
thy bounds be set
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet,
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet.



ooooohh...i see your point...well why dont you just go preach over there...where people will let you shove ideas down their throat. I didnt insult anyone so you shouldnt either.



How am I insulting? I am just pointing out that you should not be so critical of others for expressing their beliefs, even if you do find them disdainful.
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Posted 6/26/10

orangeflute wrote:


draw160 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

Who are you to be so critical of others for holding a certain set of, admittedly bigoted, beliefs. As long as they don't act on those beliefs and commit acts of violence against the object of their hatred or otherwise harm a member of the discriminated group, why should we criticise them for their values? Certainly some of your values are disdainful to the general public as well.

Also, in the work place, while racial and sexual discrimination is wrong, provided that gender/race does indeed interfere with said occupation, and credentials should take priority and all that, how can you distinguish between a homosexual person and a regular person? And if you find out later, how can you fire him without any reason?

Hateful speech and bigoted thoughts, while certainly disdainful and disgusting, are a necessary part of our democracy, and shall always exist as long as those great twin pillars of Free Thought and Free Speech stands.

Even if you don't like it, you should still appreciate it.



Land of Hope and Glory
Mother of the free
How shall we extol thee
We, who are born of thee
Wider and Wider shall
thy bounds be set
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet,
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet.



ooooohh...i see your point...well why dont you just go preach over there...where people will let you shove ideas down their throat. I didnt insult anyone so you shouldnt either.



How am I insulting? I am just pointing out that you should not be so critical of others for expressing their beliefs, even if you do find them disdainful.


"some of your values are disdainful to the general public as well" that is insulting to me....also putting that passage thing which is clearly christian bothers me because some christians in my town did a terrible thing last summer. They didnt let the black people in the church. I know not all christians are like that, but a decent amount are.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

draw160 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


draw160 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

Who are you to be so critical of others for holding a certain set of, admittedly bigoted, beliefs. As long as they don't act on those beliefs and commit acts of violence against the object of their hatred or otherwise harm a member of the discriminated group, why should we criticise them for their values? Certainly some of your values are disdainful to the general public as well.

Also, in the work place, while racial and sexual discrimination is wrong, provided that gender/race does indeed interfere with said occupation, and credentials should take priority and all that, how can you distinguish between a homosexual person and a regular person? And if you find out later, how can you fire him without any reason?

Hateful speech and bigoted thoughts, while certainly disdainful and disgusting, are a necessary part of our democracy, and shall always exist as long as those great twin pillars of Free Thought and Free Speech stands.

Even if you don't like it, you should still appreciate it.



Land of Hope and Glory
Mother of the free
How shall we extol thee
We, who are born of thee
Wider and Wider shall
thy bounds be set
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet,
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet.



ooooohh...i see your point...well why dont you just go preach over there...where people will let you shove ideas down their throat. I didnt insult anyone so you shouldnt either.



How am I insulting? I am just pointing out that you should not be so critical of others for expressing their beliefs, even if you do find them disdainful.


"some of your values are disdainful to the general public as well" that is insulting to me....also putting that passage thing which is clearly christian bothers me because some christians in my town did a terrible thing last summer. They didnt let the black people in the church. I know not all christians are like that, but a decent amount are.


But, it is true- you more likely than not will hold a belief that is concurrent to what the general public agree to be right- say, Gay Marriage, Amnesty for Illegals, &c.

Also, I did not chose this song because it is Christian, but because it was patriotic. I am sure you have heard the tune before in various secular institutions, and, so, if the tune is okay for secular usage, why not the lyrics?

And, if you observe from my previous postings, which I shall get around to recommending you to, you will know quite well that I am not at all religious, or Christian.
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Posted 6/26/10

orangeflute wrote:

But, it is true- you more likely than not will hold a belief that is concurrent to what the general public agree to be right- say, Gay Marriage, Amnesty for Illegals, &c.


The majority of the public believes in Amnesty for Illegals ? Lol what are you smoking, the Majority of the country doesn't support it at all. 70% of the american public supports the arizona law lol.
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Posted 6/26/10

Allhailodin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

But, it is true- you more likely than not will hold a belief that is concurrent to what the general public agree to be right- say, Gay Marriage, Amnesty for Illegals, &c.


The majority of the public believes in Amnesty for Illegals ? Lol what are you smoking, the Majority of the country doesn't support it at all. 70% of the american public supports the arizona law lol.


That's there is the point, most Americans don't want amnesty for illegals, but, our dear OP might believe thus (or not, but that is beside the point). Most Americans are opposed to Gay Marriage as well, and most Americans still think that God created all things in seven days time.
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Posted 6/26/10

orangeflute wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

But, it is true- you more likely than not will hold a belief that is concurrent to what the general public agree to be right- say, Gay Marriage, Amnesty for Illegals, &c.


The majority of the public believes in Amnesty for Illegals ? Lol what are you smoking, the Majority of the country doesn't support it at all. 70% of the american public supports the arizona law lol.


That's there is the point, most Americans don't want amnesty for illegals, but, our dear OP might believe thus (or not, but that is beside the point). Most Americans are opposed to Gay Marriage as well, and most Americans still think that God created all things in seven days time.


Most american say, "We want immigrants, but we don't want immigrants coming into the country illegally, we want them coming in legally" And theres nothing wrong with that.
Posted 6/26/10

alupihan45 wrote:


DrifterZ0 wrote:

I think the hate for homosexuals was intensified during the age of Christianity rather than the classical times. In ancient Greece homosexuality was admired, as mentioned above Sparta encouraged homosexuality to encourage their troop's morale. In Japan homosexuality was not also discouraged, in fact the Japanese are encouraged to "know" sexuality rather than deny it like most homophobic people as we know.


alupihan45 wrote:


well, i'll kinda understand if the military will not accept gay people. No one wants a soldier who will turn into a fairy at the middle of a gun fight


Say that to a Spartan's face and you'll get your face whacked.

Sad to say but I think religions and their illogical or unreasonable doctrines had really helped much of the hate trend of these times.


no. Christianity didn't started it.

It started with the first father who wants his son to follow his footstep.


Oh I see... you got a point there. Thanks for enlightening me.
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Posted 6/26/10

orangeflute wrote:


draw160 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


draw160 wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

Who are you to be so critical of others for holding a certain set of, admittedly bigoted, beliefs. As long as they don't act on those beliefs and commit acts of violence against the object of their hatred or otherwise harm a member of the discriminated group, why should we criticise them for their values? Certainly some of your values are disdainful to the general public as well.

Also, in the work place, while racial and sexual discrimination is wrong, provided that gender/race does indeed interfere with said occupation, and credentials should take priority and all that, how can you distinguish between a homosexual person and a regular person? And if you find out later, how can you fire him without any reason?

Hateful speech and bigoted thoughts, while certainly disdainful and disgusting, are a necessary part of our democracy, and shall always exist as long as those great twin pillars of Free Thought and Free Speech stands.

Even if you don't like it, you should still appreciate it.



Land of Hope and Glory
Mother of the free
How shall we extol thee
We, who are born of thee
Wider and Wider shall
thy bounds be set
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet,
God, who made thee mighty,
make thee mightier yet.



ooooohh...i see your point...well why dont you just go preach over there...where people will let you shove ideas down their throat. I didnt insult anyone so you shouldnt either.



How am I insulting? I am just pointing out that you should not be so critical of others for expressing their beliefs, even if you do find them disdainful.


"some of your values are disdainful to the general public as well" that is insulting to me....also putting that passage thing which is clearly christian bothers me because some christians in my town did a terrible thing last summer. They didnt let the black people in the church. I know not all christians are like that, but a decent amount are.


But, it is true- you more likely than not will hold a belief that is concurrent to what the general public agree to be right- say, Gay Marriage, Amnesty for Illegals, &c.

Also, I did not chose this song because it is Christian, but because it was patriotic. I am sure you have heard the tune before in various secular institutions, and, so, if the tune is okay for secular usage, why not the lyrics?

And, if you observe from my previous postings, which I shall get around to recommending you to, you will know quite well that I am not at all religious, or Christian.


ahh, sorry about that...im feeling sick(not up to my usual intelligence level lol) but let's just end this here, after all fighting over the internet is like the special olympics, win or lose...your still retarded....haha no that was a joke...but really this is silly...
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Posted 6/27/10

DrifterZ0 wrote:



Oh I see... you got a point there. Thanks for enlightening me.


i do not know if that is sarcasm. Looking back, there is no Christians yet and immediately after Jesus, there are not that many to make a ruckus around the world; however, Alpha Male and our macho society was evident way before back so we can say that homophobia or intolerance to gay people are present
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Posted 6/27/10 , edited 6/27/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


Hawker wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:

well, i'll kinda understand if the military will not accept gay people. No one wants a soldier who will turn into a fairy at the middle of a gun fight


Are you kidding me? Historically in many cultures around the world homosexuality was widely practiced by the warrior caste and in some like in Sparta and Japan it was highly encouraged.


Sparta? (reminded me of Meet the Spartans) Is that the reason why they wear loincloths? I know in Japan (it is not encouraged but tolerated) there is homosexuality

name me more of this countries... i'm just curious. I'm kinda laughing now (no offense) thinking if the Horeds of Genghis Khan were homos, or the army of Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin... Even the Persians of Xerxes... that would be something


Homosexuality was prominent in ancient Greece and Rome, especially among the warriors because it encouraged unity and cooperation. Soldiers were more likely to fight more competently and passionately alongside people they had romantic relationships with, since they would want to protect them. It wasn't until the rise of Christianity that homosexuality was viewed as immoral and disgusting (in western civilization at least) and the long history of the persecution of gays and certain other minority groups began.

Even today there are some pretty tough gay guys who would kick your ass if you said something like that to them, including the ones in the military. It takes balls just to sign up to be in the military and knowingly risk your life for your country, so I doubt any gay person would "turn into a fairy" if they had enough guts to sign up for it.


hey, Jews were the first one who thinks sodomy is a bad thing.

also, i still question why the old homosexual relationship in greece has to be men and young boy? In present society, we usually call the cops.

I knew hard gays do exist. I was harassed 4 times by hard gays (they look more masculine and they are bigger than me) already. It was more scarier than being mugged.
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Posted 6/27/10

alupihan45 wrote:


Cuddlebuns wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:


Hawker wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:

well, i'll kinda understand if the military will not accept gay people. No one wants a soldier who will turn into a fairy at the middle of a gun fight


Are you kidding me? Historically in many cultures around the world homosexuality was widely practiced by the warrior caste and in some like in Sparta and Japan it was highly encouraged.


Sparta? (reminded me of Meet the Spartans) Is that the reason why they wear loincloths? I know in Japan (it is not encouraged but tolerated) there is homosexuality

name me more of this countries... i'm just curious. I'm kinda laughing now (no offense) thinking if the Horeds of Genghis Khan were homos, or the army of Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin... Even the Persians of Xerxes... that would be something


Homosexuality was prominent in ancient Greece and Rome, especially among the warriors because it encouraged unity and cooperation. Soldiers were more likely to fight more competently and passionately alongside people they had romantic relationships with, since they would want to protect them. It wasn't until the rise of Christianity that homosexuality was viewed as immoral and disgusting (in western civilization at least) and the long history of the persecution of gays and certain other minority groups began.

Even today there are some pretty tough gay guys who would kick your ass if you said something like that to them, including the ones in the military. It takes balls just to sign up to be in the military and knowingly risk your life for your country, so I doubt any gay person would "turn into a fairy" if they had enough guts to sign up for it.


hey, Jews were the first one who thinks sodomy is a bad thing.

also, i still question why the old homosexual relationship in greece has to be men and young boy? In present society, we usually call the cops.

I knew hard gays do exist. I was harassed 4 times by hard gays (they look more masculine and they are bigger than me) already. It was more scarier than being mugged.


Alright, first of all the whole sodomy thing is false, "god" fired Sodomy because of people raping, stealing, and not because of homosexuality.
Second, to remind you that David had a male lover, yes his name was Jonathan, go read a little and see what David tells Jonathan. If what he tells him is no homosexual love, then I don't know what is homosexual love.
Third, I would like to talk about something called "Closeted homosexuals" you see, there are homosexuals everywhere, and in these armies that you have mentioned earlier, how do you know they weren't homosexuals ha? you didn't live there and knew everyone, now did you?
Oh and for your information, "fairies" aren't all around, the majority of homosexual men are very manly, and I bet, manlier than you, because homosexual men tend to go to the gym alot, train, eat healthy and takes care of themselves.
Now, as for the army thing, just remember that you don't need to fight a war to be "manly" or a "man". War is stupid, peace is better.
back to religion, Christianity stole some phrases from the Jewish bible (Torah) that concern homosexuals. If christianity is holding SO much hatred for homosexual behavior, then how come Jesus (which is why the new testament existed in the first place, Jesus) how come he never mentioned not even ONCE the sin of homosexuality? read the 10 commandments, do they include homosexuals? if it includes "Lying" as a sin then I'm pretty sure homosexuality should have been mentioned....because it seems like the church today treats homosexuals worst than people who lie...and I'm sure that everyone atleast lied once in their life....
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Posted 6/27/10 , edited 6/27/10

Allhailodin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

But, it is true- you more likely than not will hold a belief that is concurrent to what the general public agree to be right- say, Gay Marriage, Amnesty for Illegals, &c.


The majority of the public believes in Amnesty for Illegals ? Lol what are you smoking, the Majority of the country doesn't support it at all. 70% of the american public supports the arizona law lol.


That's there is the point, most Americans don't want amnesty for illegals, but, our dear OP might believe thus (or not, but that is beside the point). Most Americans are opposed to Gay Marriage as well, and most Americans still think that God created all things in seven days time.


Most american say, "We want immigrants, but we don't want immigrants coming into the country illegally, we want them coming in legally" And theres nothing wrong with that.


Of course there is nothing wrong with such line of thinking, and, personally, I subscribe that view. My father and his family came to this nation legally, while escaping the Communist Khmer Rouge Regime, being stuck in a shit-hole Thai refugee camps, and bothering to actually learn English. 'Tis that, in my city, Los Angeles, Amnesty for Illegal aliens is very popular.
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Posted 6/27/10

lalouse wrote:

Alright, first of all the whole sodomy thing is false, "god" fired Sodomy because of people raping, stealing, and not because of homosexuality.
Second, to remind you that David had a male lover, yes his name was Jonathan, go read a little and see what David tells Jonathan. If what he tells him is no homosexual love, then I don't know what is homosexual love.
Third, I would like to talk about something called "Closeted homosexuals" you see, there are homosexuals everywhere, and in these armies that you have mentioned earlier, how do you know they weren't homosexuals ha? you didn't live there and knew everyone, now did you?
Oh and for your information, "fairies" aren't all around, the majority of homosexual men are very manly, and I bet, manlier than you, because homosexual men tend to go to the gym alot, train, eat healthy and takes care of themselves.
Now, as for the army thing, just remember that you don't need to fight a war to be "manly" or a "man". War is stupid, peace is better.
back to religion, Christianity stole some phrases from the Jewish bible (Torah) that concern homosexuals. If christianity is holding SO much hatred for homosexual behavior, then how come Jesus (which is why the new testament existed in the first place, Jesus) how come he never mentioned not even ONCE the sin of homosexuality? read the 10 commandments, do they include homosexuals? if it includes "Lying" as a sin then I'm pretty sure homosexuality should have been mentioned....because it seems like the church today treats homosexuals worst than people who lie...and I'm sure that everyone atleast lied once in their life....


lalouse, long time no see. how's my hombre?

about the story of sodomy, i don't have a complete and concrete history about it but it seems people practice it not out of "love". It is usually for carnal reason.

about David and Jonathan, please do not mistaken bromance from homosexuality. If the case is what you said, ALL male friendship would be placed in question. It's like all genre would be yaoi. Me and my buddy would be branded as homosexual if David and Jonathan would be gay. Frodo and Sam (from Lord of the Rings) would be gay. Captain Kirk and Dr. Spock would be gay. Bromance and homosexuality is a different.

about gay people demography, i'm not an expert with that so i'll leave that.

about men going to war to be manly, it depends (usually, countries with tribal origin) and yeah. Going to war doesn't make you real men. Even kids can fight.

Christians doesn't hate gay people. They hate what they do.

actually, we don't stole the Jewish Bible. We use it as reference (they have the prophesy, which reflects in the New Testament).

Anyway, Jesus did mentioned that homosexuality is not accepted. He mentioned what is right. "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)"

Beyond a male-female sexual relationship is perversion. The Apostle Paul made it clear that perversion is not good, " Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

well, let us drop the religious topic. it kinda make people here defensive

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Posted 6/27/10

alupihan45 wrote:


lalouse wrote:

Alright, first of all the whole sodomy thing is false, "god" fired Sodomy because of people raping, stealing, and not because of homosexuality.
Second, to remind you that David had a male lover, yes his name was Jonathan, go read a little and see what David tells Jonathan. If what he tells him is no homosexual love, then I don't know what is homosexual love.
Third, I would like to talk about something called "Closeted homosexuals" you see, there are homosexuals everywhere, and in these armies that you have mentioned earlier, how do you know they weren't homosexuals ha? you didn't live there and knew everyone, now did you?
Oh and for your information, "fairies" aren't all around, the majority of homosexual men are very manly, and I bet, manlier than you, because homosexual men tend to go to the gym alot, train, eat healthy and takes care of themselves.
Now, as for the army thing, just remember that you don't need to fight a war to be "manly" or a "man". War is stupid, peace is better.
back to religion, Christianity stole some phrases from the Jewish bible (Torah) that concern homosexuals. If christianity is holding SO much hatred for homosexual behavior, then how come Jesus (which is why the new testament existed in the first place, Jesus) how come he never mentioned not even ONCE the sin of homosexuality? read the 10 commandments, do they include homosexuals? if it includes "Lying" as a sin then I'm pretty sure homosexuality should have been mentioned....because it seems like the church today treats homosexuals worst than people who lie...and I'm sure that everyone atleast lied once in their life....


lalouse, long time no see. how's my hombre?

about the story of sodomy, i don't have a complete and concrete history about it but it seems people practice it not out of "love". It is usually for carnal reason.

about David and Jonathan, please do not mistaken bromance from homosexuality. If the case is what you said, ALL male friendship would be placed in question. It's like all genre would be yaoi. Me and my buddy would be branded as homosexual if David and Jonathan would be gay. Frodo and Sam (from Lord of the Rings) would be gay. Captain Kirk and Dr. Spock would be gay. Bromance and homosexuality is a different.

about gay people demography, i'm not an expert with that so i'll leave that.

about men going to war to be manly, it depends (usually, countries with tribal origin) and yeah. Going to war doesn't make you real men. Even kids can fight.

Christians doesn't hate gay people. They hate what they do.

actually, we don't stole the Jewish Bible. We use it as reference (they have the prophesy, which reflects in the New Testament).

Anyway, Jesus did mentioned that homosexuality is not accepted. He mentioned what is right. "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)"

Beyond a male-female sexual relationship is perversion. The Apostle Paul made it clear that perversion is not good, " Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

well, let us drop the religious topic. it kinda make people here defensive



Alright your putting things together....alright sodomy we left now as for David and Jonathan, back at the time, real close friends (male friends) had oral sex between them =) that's a fact. David and Jonathan were more than "friends" NOW, kings also unsed to have male lovers, it was a common practice, but not anal sex...anal sex was considered to be a crime against the law...so men only had oral sex back then....and I think oral sex between 2 men is a homosexual act :P

NOW I don't care what christians love and what they hate because christianity wasn't even supposed to be religion, Jesus came to spread the word of peace, not to make a new religion.
Now, stole yea christians stole stuff from the jews, the jews stole from the egyptians, and so on...every religion takes certain things from a previous religion. If christians wanna use a sentence that is mentioned in the Jewish bible, then why don't they just remain jewish and believe in the existence of Jesus? ha? :P
Now, jesus didn't mention homosexuality just because he said what you quoted, because he also said
"Because of your hardness of heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

The disciples said to him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry"

But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.

"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." (Matt 19: 8-12)

Yes, you heard me right Not all men are born to be married....some of them aren't meant to get married, and why? ask your self
I'll say it again jesus never mentioned homosexuals.
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Posted 6/27/10

alupihan45 wrote:


lalouse wrote:

Alright, first of all the whole sodomy thing is false, "god" fired Sodomy because of people raping, stealing, and not because of homosexuality.
Second, to remind you that David had a male lover, yes his name was Jonathan, go read a little and see what David tells Jonathan. If what he tells him is no homosexual love, then I don't know what is homosexual love.
Third, I would like to talk about something called "Closeted homosexuals" you see, there are homosexuals everywhere, and in these armies that you have mentioned earlier, how do you know they weren't homosexuals ha? you didn't live there and knew everyone, now did you?
Oh and for your information, "fairies" aren't all around, the majority of homosexual men are very manly, and I bet, manlier than you, because homosexual men tend to go to the gym alot, train, eat healthy and takes care of themselves.
Now, as for the army thing, just remember that you don't need to fight a war to be "manly" or a "man". War is stupid, peace is better.
back to religion, Christianity stole some phrases from the Jewish bible (Torah) that concern homosexuals. If christianity is holding SO much hatred for homosexual behavior, then how come Jesus (which is why the new testament existed in the first place, Jesus) how come he never mentioned not even ONCE the sin of homosexuality? read the 10 commandments, do they include homosexuals? if it includes "Lying" as a sin then I'm pretty sure homosexuality should have been mentioned....because it seems like the church today treats homosexuals worst than people who lie...and I'm sure that everyone atleast lied once in their life....


lalouse, long time no see. how's my hombre?

about the story of sodomy, i don't have a complete and concrete history about it but it seems people practice it not out of "love". It is usually for carnal reason.

about David and Jonathan, please do not mistaken bromance from homosexuality. If the case is what you said, ALL male friendship would be placed in question. It's like all genre would be yaoi. Me and my buddy would be branded as homosexual if David and Jonathan would be gay. Frodo and Sam (from Lord of the Rings) would be gay. Captain Kirk and Dr. Spock would be gay. Bromance and homosexuality is a different.

about gay people demography, i'm not an expert with that so i'll leave that.

about men going to war to be manly, it depends (usually, countries with tribal origin) and yeah. Going to war doesn't make you real men. Even kids can fight.

Christians doesn't hate gay people. They hate what they do.

actually, we don't stole the Jewish Bible. We use it as reference (they have the prophesy, which reflects in the New Testament).

Anyway, Jesus did mentioned that homosexuality is not accepted. He mentioned what is right. "And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)"

Beyond a male-female sexual relationship is perversion. The Apostle Paul made it clear that perversion is not good, " Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

well, let us drop the religious topic. it kinda make people here defensive



To be fair, all those personages you mention are pretty damn gay. But, I will cease this digression: In the bible, Jonathan was loved by David 'more than womankind' and that 'the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul', &c. &c.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bmar.htm

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