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Corporations
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10
Actually that true it started under the Cater administration. At first very small amount of money need to loan to those who could not get a morgue in the area being redeveloped. This grew under all the administration. Groups such as ACRON and off shut of these so-called community organizers had so much power they could stop banks from making loan in area of development. Too, do business in this area the banks where loaning money to people with at best marginal credit. The bush administrations try to hall this bad leaning in. However, Barmy Frank Congressman on the over sight board on these loan said everything was fine. Even though his lover was head Freddy Mac. Maybe Fanny may. These loan where guaranteed by both Fanny May and Freddie Mac. Bush did not have enough support to get the votes needed so both parties are to blame.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Giving a Home loan to a person with 600 credits score is not wise nor the normal practices. Here in Atlanta there was crooked lend practices, the homeowners where in on this and realtors. People were getting loaning at 105 percent to buy a house or to refinance a house something not right with any money down. The morgue companies rolled this entire loan into packages and sold them off. To investments, groups then they hit the international market as well. Buy this point most the loans had falling into bankruptcies. Toxic assets now named, you will notice that nobody went to jail over this stuff the politician and corporation hand dirty hands in this primarily. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When people told me, they bought property on the west side and talking of making more money when they flipped the property. I took the jobs but made sure all the payments and material where done in steps. Around where I am at, they pay for materials as the job goes on, halfway through a payment for labor up to that point, the rest at the end. The west side is where I make sure I have two guns and a co-worker but this drove up my price one small job which I could care less if I went back. Most the house had there copper pipes cut out and copper wire if easy to get to the whole compressor unit for AC
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10
Well I don't deny that coprs(I'll shorten it to corps cause I can't spell the whole word without having to look it up on google) have pull in government. And I don't deny that they have power and stuff. But I think most people know that.

I just have one question, so far nobody I've asked has been able to answer it.

If not for corps, who would manufacture stuff ?

Like if not for apple, who would manufacture iPods, cause pretty much everyone has one of those. If not for Intel or Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) who would manufacture CPUs ? Who would manufacture the northbridges and southbridges in your computers ?

I know for a fact that manufacturing a CPU or GPU or North or South Bridge is beyond the scope of the average person or small business.

A single Nehalem cpu (manufactured by Intel) uses 700 million transistors only 45 nm(Nanometers) across. That's way beyond the scope of the average person or small business to manufacture.

So who would manufacture the advanced components that go into the stuff you use every day ?

Also stuff like shampoo and soaps and stuff are also manufactured by corps.

So if corps are torn down, disbanded and stuff, who is left to manufacture the products that we use every day ?
Posted 6/26/10
Whenever anything goes corporate, anyone involved with it looses their soul.
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Posted 6/26/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


alupihan45 wrote:

well, that's life. he who has the money makes the rules.


That's no surprise, but the problem here is that few people know that corporations are the ones who are running the U.S and not the federal government. They manipulate the public into fighting amongst each other and blaming the government for everything so that they can keep making more money. So the situation is more difficult to change because so few people know who is actually causing the problem, and the ones who do know have a hard time spreading the message because the masses have been brainwashed into only listening to people who blindly agree with them no matter how true or false it may be, rather than listening to reason. It's a sick game that is all motivated by greed.


You support corps and you don't even realize it. And I'll explain how.

You bought a computer, which has parts in it manufactures by at least 3+ corps(I can't spell the whole word without looking it up). your computers CPU = Intel / AMD, your Motherboard = Gigabyte / Asus / Intel / EVGA, ect, your northbridge and southbridge were made by Nvidia, or ATI, thats 3 corps that build a component of your computer, your monitor was made by another one, the power supply, yet another.

You use corp products everyday, if you have a cell phone thats another 4 or 5, an ipod, another 2 or 3.

So you yourself support them by buying their products.

But still wanna know, is who if not for a corp, would manufacture those very same componenets, as they are far to complicated and advanced for the average person or small business to manufacture.

Sorry my spelling sucks ass.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

Allhailodin wrote:

You support corps and you don't even realize it. And I'll explain how.

You bought a computer, which has parts in it manufactures by at least 3+ corps(I can't spell the whole word without looking it up). your computers CPU = Intel / AMD, your Motherboard = Gigabyte / Asus / Intel / EVGA, ect, your northbridge and southbridge were made by Nvidia, or ATI, thats 3 corps that build a component of your computer, your monitor was made by another one, the power supply, yet another.

You use corp products everyday, if you have a cell phone thats another 4 or 5, an ipod, another 2 or 3.

So you yourself support them by buying their products.

But still wanna know, is who if not for a corp, would manufacture those very same componenets, as they are far to complicated and advanced for the average person or small business to manufacture.

Sorry my spelling sucks ass.


I know that I support corporations by buying their products, and many of their services are helpful. The problem isn't the fact that they produce goods and services, the problem is that they are allowed to have influence over legislation and other aspects of government, and that some of them use tax money to fix their mistakes. I believe that businesses shouldn't be allowed to have much power in government as they do now, they shouldn't have any more power than individual citizens. Governments shouldn't bail them out, if they screw up and fail then let them dissolve, and their competitors will pick up the slack.

So I don't think corporations should be dissolved, but that they shouldn't have any influence over policy making and judicial matters, and they shouldn't receive tax payer money.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:

You support corps and you don't even realize it. And I'll explain how.

You bought a computer, which has parts in it manufactures by at least 3+ corps(I can't spell the whole word without looking it up). your computers CPU = Intel / AMD, your Motherboard = Gigabyte / Asus / Intel / EVGA, ect, your northbridge and southbridge were made by Nvidia, or ATI, thats 3 corps that build a component of your computer, your monitor was made by another one, the power supply, yet another.

You use corp products everyday, if you have a cell phone thats another 4 or 5, an ipod, another 2 or 3.

So you yourself support them by buying their products.

But still wanna know, is who if not for a corp, would manufacture those very same componenets, as they are far to complicated and advanced for the average person or small business to manufacture.

Sorry my spelling sucks ass.


I know that I support corporations by buying their products, and many of their services are helpful. The problem isn't the fact that they produce goods and services, the problem is that they are allowed to have influence over legislation and other aspects of government, and that some of them use tax money to fix their mistakes. I believe that businesses shouldn't be allowed to have much power in government as they do now, they shouldn't have any more power than individual citizens. Governments shouldn't bail them out, if they screw up and fail then let them dissolve, and their competitors will pick up the slack.

So I don't think corporations should be dissolved, but that they shouldn't have any influence over policy making and judicial matters, and they shouldn't receive tax payer money.


Oh, I kind of agree, but since they have deep pockets, you can with that kind of wallet, 'pursuade' others (congressman / senators) to vote for things in your favor and 'pursuade' the creation of lesigation, and such. pursuade people to look the other way

But I don't blame the corps for that, doing that kind of thing is at the very core of human nature. anyone would do the same really. humans have been doing that kinda stuff for thousands of years, its nothing new. I blame the government for being weak enough to give into it.

And as for bailing them out, you talking about the tax payer bailout of the banks ? Well the thing is if that didn't happen, the people who have accounts at those banks would have lost all their money. People could have lost their entire life savings. Money they worked their entire life to obtain.
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Posted 6/26/10

Allhailodin wrote:

Oh, I kind of agree, but since they have deep pockets, you can with that kind of wallet, 'pursuade' others (congressman / senators) to vote for things in your favor and 'pursuade' the creation of lesigation, and such. pursuade people to look the other way


Yes, you can do that, but it shouldn't be legal.


But I don't blame the corps for that, doing that kind of thing is at the very core of human nature. anyone would do the same really. humans have been doing that kinda stuff for thousands of years, its nothing new. I blame the government for being weak enough to give into it.


So you blame the politicians for being greedy, but it's ok for the corporations to be greedy? They have the same motivation and they are working together towards the same goal, so they are both at fault.


And as for bailing them out, you talking about the tax payer bailout of the banks ? Well the thing is if that didn't happen, the people who have accounts at those banks would have lost all their money. People could have lost their entire life savings. Money they worked their entire life to obtain.


That's the risk you take when you let the banks borrow your money. Perhaps if they had just let all of those people lose their money, then they would have gotten angry enough to spark some real change in this country.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:

Yes, you can do that, but it shouldn't be legal.


Bribery is illegal.



So you blame the politicians for being greedy, but it's ok for the corporations to be greedy? They have the same motivation and they are working together towards the same goal, so they are both at fault.


They sell a product / service for a profit. Just like any other businesses, that automatically makes them greedy ? So all business owners are automatically greedy simply for owning a business ? Go tell that to my neighbor.


That's the risk you take when you let the banks borrow your money. Perhaps if they had just let all of those people lose their money, then they would have gotten angry enough to spark some real change in this country.


Then all those people would have lost their houses and all their property. Can't let that happen.

But that's why you should also invest in hard assets.

I think this country should return to its roots, the values the forefathers founded it on. Worked great for like 100+ years, then its got screwed up somewhere along the line and it all went to hell. And that bring you to today.
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Posted 6/26/10

Allhailodin wrote:

Bribery is illegal.


Some forms of it are illegal. But corporations are allowed to make "donations" to campaigns (much of which gets pocketed), and corporate lobbyists give politicians various forms of monetary incentive to protect their business. Also, many politicians personally invest in companies, so they make money off of their profits. So even though they aren't directly or opening exchanging money for protection, that's essentially what they are doing behind the scenes.


They sell a product / service for a profit. Just like any other businesses, that automatically makes them greedy ? So all business owners are automatically greedy simply for owning a business ? Go tell that to my neighbor.


The fact that they cut corners (such as not adhering to safety regulations, like BP did) to maximize profits is what makes them greedy. They are allowed to cut corners because they influence politicians to create policies that make it legal for them to do so, and they influence judges so that they aren't held completely accountable whenever something goes wrong. So if your neighbor compromises the safety of their workers and the quality of their products/services just so that they can have a little extra money in their pocket, then yes they are greedy.



Then all those people would have lost their houses and all their property. Can't let that happen.


Yes you can, it's one of the risks and consequences of capitalism (I know the U.S has a mixed economy, but it's largely capitalist). Any attempt to prevent that is socialistic, which IMO is a good thing, but it distorts the free market delusion that certain political groups feed to the masses.


But that's why would should also invest in hard assets.


Plenty of people invest in BP and Transocean and the other companies involved in the oil spill in the Gulf, look what happened there. Although I don't know if investing in those companies counts as investing in the hard assets as well, or if there is a more direct way to invest in them.


I think this country should return to its roots, the values the forefathers founded it on. Worked great for like 100+ years, then its got screwed up somewhere along the line and it all went to hell. And that bring you to today.

I've heard plenty of people say that without ever really explaining what those values are, or how we are no longer adhering to them. Also, I don't know if you were intentionally implying this, but slavery ended almost 100 years after America was founded, so that kind of suggests that ending slavery was the downfall of America.
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Posted 6/26/10
Corporations are fine but the way government and corporation have helped each other cover there on asses is what I do not like. People inside the corporation need to answer criminal code of conduct so making a dangerous product and knowing let it out to market is criminal. I would like that to go for government officials as well elected and none.
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Posted 6/26/10
While most people here would agree that Corporations are, overall, great, and that it is probably the best way to organise labour on a massive scale, the arguments concerning these corporations are usually about the amount of power and influence they should be allowed to exert and have. So, the only people who have objections are the ones like Jandarujora, who seems to think that all corporations are owned by Jews, and that every corporation can be liken to the fictional Shinra Company.

But, just as most of us would agree that the lack of government will cause disorder and chaos, most of us would probably agree that a totally free market will only result in monopolies and an environment that new businesses cannot thrive, which is why I am sure you will agree that the government should impose regulations upon all businesses.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:

Some forms of it are illegal. But corporations are allowed to make "donations" to campaigns (much of which gets pocketed), and corporate lobbyists give politicians various forms of monetary incentive to protect their business. Also, many politicians personally invest in companies, so they make money off of their profits. So even though they aren't directly or opening exchanging money for protection, that's essentially what they are doing behind the scenes.


Small businesses are allowed to as well. I don't believe your automatically corrupt simply because you own a corp, there are many types of corps, my neighbor owns one, technically it is a corp as he has a license from the dept of corps, even tho he just owns a small landscaping company, so not all corps are huge large corrupt businesses. Lots of them are small ones owned by average people.


The fact that they cut corners (such as not adhering to safety regulations, like BP did) to maximize profits is what makes them greedy. They are allowed to cut corners because they influence politicians to create policies that make it legal for them to do so, and they influence judges so that they aren't held completely accountable whenever something goes wrong. So if your neighbor compromises the safety of their workers and the quality of their products/services just so that they can have a little extra money in their pocket, then yes they are greedy.


I dunno what causes that valve to fail, could have been a freak accident or could have been the fault of not testing it properly.

My neighbor just owns a small landscaping business lol. He does quality work, I've seen it, and his workers are very well paid(and most of them aren't even in the union), that is when there is work for him, as theres like nothing in construction right now, so he has no work. He's had to lay off a bunch of people cause he cant afford to pay them right now.



Yes you can, it's one of the risks and consequences of capitalism (I know the U.S has a mixed economy, but it's largely capitalist). Any attempt to prevent that is socialistic, which IMO is a good thing, but it distorts the free market delusion that certain political groups feed to the masses.


I think that free market capitalism is a good thing, It enables pretty much anyone to be able to succeed. And it prevents people from becoming lazy and depending on handouts, If you don't work, you don't eat. Motivates people to get off their ass and get a job. People become lazy and dependant when things are handed to them. Which is bad.

I dunno too much about socialism but from what I see in europe, its not a good thing, they're lasy and dependant, and have issues with cronic unemployment, and if you take away their free handouts they throw tantrums and riot and burns things down(greese).

Although of course there are exceptions to that, like if your legit disabled(physically or mentally) and can't physically work.


Plenty of people invest in BP and Transocean and the other companies involved in the oil spill in the Gulf, look what happened there. Although I don't know if investing in those companies counts as investing in the hard assets as well, or if there is a more direct way to invest in them.


Hard assets are things like gold, silver, diamonds, jems, things that will always retain their value even if the currency is utterly worthless(like the dollar is going to be at the rate the government is printing money) you can have a million dollars, but that's worth nothing if the dollar is worth nothing, just 1 million worthless pieces of paper, gold however will always have a value no matter where you go.



I've heard plenty of people say that without ever really explaining what those values are, or how we are no longer adhering to them. Also, I don't know if you were intentionally implying this, but slavery ended almost 100 years after America was founded, so that kind of suggests that ending slavery was the downfall of America.


Forefathers values were stuff like

That there should be no censorship of anything.
That you have the right to say whatever you want, and not have to hold back because it might offend someone.
The people should be free from tranny.
The government should stay the fuck out of the average citizens life for the most part, only interviening when nessary.
That the government should leave people free to persue his own pursuits of industry and not take from them the fruits of what they have earned(over taxing them to death).

Stuff like that. They believed that everyone should have the right to become successful, but not have that success handed to them on a silver platter, that if one wants to become successful, he would have to seize that success with his own hands.

The forefathers though that slavery was wrong, btw, and so do I.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

orangeflute wrote:

While most people here would agree that Corporations are, overall, great, and that it is probably the best way to organise labour on a massive scale, the arguments concerning these corporations are usually about the amount of power and influence they should be allowed to exert and have. So, the only people who have objections are the ones like Jandarujora, who seems to think that all corporations are owned by Jews, and that every corporation can be liken to the fictional Shinra Company.

But, just as most of us would agree that the lack of government will cause disorder and chaos, most of us would probably agree that a totally free market will only result in monopolies and an environment that new businesses cannot thrive, which is why I am sure you will agree that the government should impose regulations upon all businesses.


A small government is better than a large one. Bureaucracy = bad. The less government in your life the better it will be. Every time. People are perfectly capable of managing their own lives. Government is not the solution to problems, in fact its quite the opposite, its usually at the core of most of this countries problems. America did just fine for 100+ years with little government, and look now that its big, the whole country went to hell. And continues to degrade.

And a free market means anyone can succeed. Anyone can start up their own business and become successful and wealthy if they so desire. As for monopolies, the government can jut break them up. And it should.

And regulation of business is harmful to businesses. It strangles them. Makes it hard to operate and makes the business inefficient. Both of those things are bad for business and the economy. Some are good yeah, like making sure you can't fire someone based off of sexual prefs or religion and that kind of stuff, but anything else is bad for businesses.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

Allhailodin wrote:


orangeflute wrote:

While most people here would agree that Corporations are, overall, great, and that it is probably the best way to organise labour on a massive scale, the arguments concerning these corporations are usually about the amount of power and influence they should be allowed to exert and have. So, the only people who have objections are the ones like Jandarujora, who seems to think that all corporations are owned by Jews, and that every corporation can be liken to the fictional Shinra Company.

But, just as most of us would agree that the lack of government will cause disorder and chaos, most of us would probably agree that a totally free market will only result in monopolies and an environment that new businesses cannot thrive, which is why I am sure you will agree that the government should impose regulations upon all businesses.


A small government is better than a large one. Bureaucracy = bad. The less government in your life the better it will be. Every time. People are perfectly capable of managing their own lives. Government is not the solution to problems, in fact its quite the opposite, its usually at the core of most of this countries problems. America did just fine for 100+ years with little government, and look now that its big, the whole country went to hell. And continues to degrade.

And a free market means anyone can succeed. Anyone can start up their own business and become successful and wealthy if they so desire. As for monopolies, the government can jut break them up. And it should.

And regulation of business is harmful to businesses. It strangles them. Makes it hard to operate and makes the business inefficient. Both of those things are bad for business and the economy. Some are good yeah, like making sure you can't fire someone based off of sexual prefs or religion and that kind of stuff, but anything else is bad for businesses.


If there was no regulations, then the bigger companies will form Trust and Monopolies, controlling prices, &c. to the extent that small business will not be able to compete, and therefore, provide no other options but a single company (or group of companies in collaborations with each other). If not the the various laws that the government enacted, then we would be in this precarious situation.

Additionally, a bigger government is required, in a democracy, so as to be better able to protect its citizen, whether from discrimination and harm, or from enemies. America was worse off with little government, from the great corruptions of Grant to the famed Gilded age salaries, which is why, under several weak governments and letting the ignorant public play with the Stock Market, we had the great depression.

Laws are not made to be practical, it is the bureaucracy the are in charged of implementing the laws and making them practical.
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Posted 6/26/10 , edited 6/26/10

Allhailodin wrote:

Small businesses are allowed to as well. I don't believe your automatically corrupt simply because you own a corp, there are many types of corps, my neighbor owns one, technically it is a corp as he has a license from the dept of corps, even tho he just owns a small landscaping company, so not all corps are huge large corrupt businesses. Lots of them are small ones owned by average people.


Of course not all corporations and business owners are corrupt, but that doesn't change the fact that the ones that are large and corrupt have too much power in this country.


I dunno what causes that valve to fail, could have been a freak accident or could have been the fault of not testing it properly.


It failed due to BP and/or one of the companies working under it (Transocean and Halliburton are the ones I know of) in this project not performing proper safety checks to ensure that the rig was in good enough condition to be used. BP has a history of doing that in order to pocket extra money, since hiring people to check it costs money, and if any problems are found it costs money to repair it. So that's why BP is receiving the blame.




I think that free market capitalism is a good thing, It enables pretty much anyone to be able to succeed.


That is how it's supposed to work in theory, but history has proved that it doesn't work that way in practice, just like its polar opposite, which is communism. That is why we have a mixed economy, because neither extreme works due to the fact that humans don't always cooperate perfectly and don't always care about the well-being of their fellow citizens.


And it prevents people from becoming lazy and depending on handouts, If you don't work, you don't eat. Motivates people to get off their ass and get a job. People become lazy and dependant when things are handed to them. Which is bad.


History has shown that, under truly free and unrestrained capitalism, even those who do work don't always get to eat, at least not enough to keep them healthy.


I dunno too much about socialism but from what I see in europe, its not a good thing, they're lasy and dependant, and have issues with cronic unemployment, and if you take away their free handouts they throw tantrums and riot and burns things down(greese).


That's a pretty huge and ignorant generalization. If it were true, then don't you think that socialist countries would have an obesity rate as high as America's? And how do you think they get money to hand out if no one is working? They can only be socialist because they have high taxes, and if no one is making any money then no one is paying taxes, so it's impossible for them to be lazy and not work. Perhaps you should actually learn more about what life is like in socialist countries before you assume that they all just sit around waiting for welfare checks.


Hard assets are things like gold, silver, diamonds, jems, things that will always retain their value even if the currency is utterly worthless(like the dollar is going to be at the rate the government is printing money) you can have a million dollars, but that's worth nothing if the dollar is worth nothing, just 1 million worthless pieces of paper, gold however will always have a value no matter where you go.


Oil is also considered a hard asset as far as I know, which is why I referred to BP.


Forefathers values were stuff like

That there should be no censorship of anything.
That you have the right to say whatever you want, and not have to hold back because it might offend someone.
The people should be free from tranny.
The government should stay the fuck out of the average citizens life for the most part, only interviening when nessary.
That the government should leave people free to persue his own pursuits of industry and not take from them the fruits of what they have earned(over taxing them to death).


It seems like we still uphold most of those ideals, other than the no censorship thing. So I don't get why there is a big push to return to them when we really haven't strayed far from them. But of course the super conservatives who are always referring to the founding fathers think we're overtaxed and ruled by a tyrant (Obama) because they have been brainwashed into believing that all of their tax money is being handed to people who aren't working, when in reality most of it is funding our wars and keeping big businesses from failing.



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