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Post Reply Crunchyroll Reviews! What do you think of CR?
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 7/2/10

revengesrage wrote:
You know heres another question I have. since Cr has the license and legal right to alot of the animes for streaming it with its own translated subs, how come users of the site can't submit their own subs which may be better to be able to use optionally.

You may have picked the best person to ask, as Agila61 posted a topic on this in the premium members section at the end of May.

At one time, CR did have a function for allowing subtitle uploads. This was certainly present during the latter days as a fansub site, and unless my memory is faulty, it hung around for a short while after they went legit. Second hand information says it was pulled due to pressure from the licensors, but the Library Moderator that responded to Agila61 made no mention of this.


Like say for instance what if I had a file that contained the subs for all 24 of the meloncholy of haruhi suzumiya and I wanted to upload it to Cr to use with the vids for watching intsead of the subs that cr translated.

Unless those had a Creative Commons license that allowed commercial use, that would actually be a copyright violation. As strange as it may seem, when subtitles are created by a group, they are automatically covered by copyright in any nation that signed the Berne Convention treaty. Alternatively, anyone uploading subtitles would have to affirm they created those subtitles themselves, and CR would have to provide a DMCA takedown mechanism in the event they lied and the true owner wanted to assert their rights.

Technical point: As mentioned here before, CR does not subtitle any of the anime. That is done by the companies they license it from.


I believe that would be an awesome feature. Because if that was possible just think how it could possibly change things. There could be groups of people in cr that would do a better translation of the series and it would all be legal, because you have to pay to watch it since the license has been bought and japan is still getting money.

It certainly would have knocked the pins out from under some of the arguments about Bleach if DB had the option to upload their subtitles to CR and either the Viz or DB subtitles could be selected.




But, then again if CR had better translators then this wouldn't be an issue. I'd really love to see karoake on the op and ed of the animes added too.

I came across an official response from CR on this recently, and will edit this later if I find a permalink to the post. Unfortunately, CR's search function is no help finding it again. Basically, it boils down to a rights issue.

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Posted 7/2/10

revengesrage wrote:

... Are you saying that the creators over there are getting no money from broadcasting it, no sales in japan absolutely whatever that their only source of income is the rest of the world? ...


Its more like the money they are getting in Japan is shrinking, because there are fewer children and the average age is rising, plus piracy in Japan. So ratings are down in Japan, so earnings from broadcast are down, and sales of DVD's are down. That's why the total number of anime produced per year has fallen in half over the last five years.

They could really use the 1/6 to 1/4 of their revenue that they used to get from overseas licenses, but the overseas DVD markets are shrinking. Streaming is not a lot of money per view, but its a growing source of income, and unlike DVD royalties, a lot of the royalties for simulcasts are received when the anime is still in production.


Agila61 awesome post its spot on, thats why I can tell myself there are people on here that are good and know what is right.

You know heres another question I have. since Cr has the license and legal right to alot of the animes for streaming it with its own translated subs, how come users of the site can't submit their own subs which may be better to be able to use optionally.


It actually does not have the right to its own translated subs. Each rights owner hires the company to do the subtitling. The subtitles are uploaded along with the rest of the video.

Translations are considered "derivative works", and in the DVD period, normal practice has been for the rights owners to have final approval on subtitling or dubbing done by international license holders, and if the license expires, the rights go back to the rights owner. That's why, for example, when Nozomi announced that they had licensed Revolutionary Girl Utena, they said they would be using CPM's dub ... since CPM lost the license when they went bust, the rights went back to the rights holder.


Like say for instance what if I had a file that contained the subs for all 24 of the meloncholy of haruhi suzumiya and I wanted to upload it to Cr to use with the vids for watching intsead of the subs that cr translated. I believe that would be an awesome feature. Because if that was possible just think how it could possibly change things. There could be groups of people in cr that would do a better translation of the series and it would all be legal, because you have to pay to watch it since the license has been bought and japan is still getting money.

I'm a big believer in this, but CR can't do it until the rights holders say its OK.

From their industry panel, it sounds like CR might be making indirect progress on this. It sounds like they are getting some approval for getting additional translations in languages other than English contributed by users. My hope would be once the Japanese rights owners get used to that, they will relax and let "crowdsource" translations help them in English too. From the AnimeNewsNetwork report on the CR panel:

Zac Bertschy wrote on AnimeNewsNetwork:
Finally, they went into their localization program, which allows approved users to localize all the content on Crunchyroll for their global region. While they'd like to be available in every language and every country around the world, they're looking for regional partners to assist in the localization effort.

Posted 7/2/10


all of this aside I think c.r. needs to get into the dvd/bluray business as well. there are still some materials here that will never be picked up by groups like bandai or funimation and I would love to see them on DVD since att put a lovely cap on their internet service.
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Posted 7/2/10 , edited 7/2/10

TheAncientOne wrote: Unless those had a Creative Commons license that allowed commercial use, that would actually be a copyright violation. As strange as it may seem, when subtitles are created by a group, they are automatically covered by copyright in any nation that signed the Berne Convention treaty. Alternatively, anyone uploading subtitles would have to affirm they created those subtitles themselves, and CR would have to provide a DMCA takedown mechanism in the event they lied and the true owner wanted to assert their rights.


I should add that this is correct. "Derivative work" means permission of the original work is required, but it needs permission of the original author and the translator.

Crunchyroll doesn't do uploads by third parties anymore, so, yes, the "approved user" status by an individual or group would require confirming that it was their own work, and they were assigning distribution rights to the original rights owner of the anime ... in addition to the original rights owner allowing the contribution to be accepted.

But with the legit right to view the anime on Crunchyroll, and then uploading under the of approval from the original rights owner ... it would become one more way that fans of a series would be able to help support the series, since subs in Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Tagalog, Malay, Thai, Mandarin, Cantonese, etc. would substantially increase the potential audience in Latin America, Europe, and Southeast Asia. Then add on top of that the opportunity to get have specialized subtitles to satisfy different tastes.

Also, note that Crunchyroll never actually removed its basic DMCA takedown mechanism - even though it only accepts uploads from the original rights owner, so its highly unlikely to receive any valid DMCA takedown notives, it still needs the mechanism in place to qualify as a safe harbor.
Lodium 
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Posted 7/2/10 , edited 7/2/10

revengesrage wrote:

agila61 well said I agree with your post %100.

Lodium Quote
It is true that fansubs have helped anime to spread, but that doesnt justifies the act of subbing and then spreading it.
And many ppl today expect to get evrything for free
If the creators dosnt get paid, it will in the end lead to them stopping making anime because it isnt profitable no more.
End Quote

Are you saying that the creators over there are getting no money from broadcasting it, no sales in japan absolutely whatever that their only source of income is the rest of the world? hey not tryin to put words in your mouth. and yeah I've read some stuff that says exactly that but lets not forget that anime originally existed in Japan only. Maybe a couple other asian countries too...

So this is really about keeping the us companies over here in buisness even more so as well as making japan more profitable, and keeping the anime industry going since it is now reaching a worldwide audience. which is great! because then as time passes by more and more people will like it and Itll be much easier to find other people who enjoy what I enjoy. You know even if you didn't mean this in your post thats what it said and screamed!

but seriously lodium what you said in that quote has nothing to do with the creators getting money its about the companies over here being able to profit off of it too. which is totally cool

Agila61 awesome post its spot on, thats why I can tell myself there are people on here that are good and know what is right.

You know heres another question I have. since Cr has the license and legal right to alot of the animes for streaming it with its own translated subs, how come users of the site can't submit their own subs which may be better to be able to use optionally.

Like say for instance what if I had a file that contained the subs for all 24 of the meloncholy of haruhi suzumiya and I wanted to upload it to Cr to use with the vids for watching intsead of the subs that cr translated. I believe that would be an awesome feature. Because if that was possible just think how it could possibly change things. There could be groups of people in cr that would do a better translation of the series and it would all be legal, because you have to pay to watch it since the license has been bought and japan is still getting money.

But, then again if CR had better translators then this wouldn't be an issue. I'd really love to see karoake on the op and ed of the animes added too.




well, yes and no.
The creators in japan and the studios unless they are pretty big names like madhouse, studio ghibli, are getting wery little paid.
In many cases they have to pay the tv companys to broadcast it in japan and then hope it will get popular enough so ppl actually buy the merchandise and the anime DVD and evrything else that follows.
Heres an old article i will quote a bit from, but it still holds somewhat truth today.
In anime, the hours are long and the pay paltry. But for many Japanese, it's still a dream job.
TOKYO — The starting pay can be less than $500 a month in this, the world's most expensive city, but becoming an illustrator in Japan's famed anime industry remains the fantasy of thousands of young Japanese.
In scores of cramped studios, largely clustered in two small districts of western Tokyo, young illustrators lean over desks, producing page after page of drawings that eventually will be turned into cartoons for broadcast in Japan and, increasingly, overseas.

Despite the huge popularity of the industry and its growing cachet internationally, even big studios typically pay recruits between $1,200 and $1,800 a month. Their counterparts in Tokyo office jobs earn up to twice as much, including benefits such as subsidized accommodation and train passes. Even convenience-store work pays $8 an hour.

Although "anime" simply means animation, the product differs from U.S. cartoons and animated films in that it is not geared mostly to children. Like its printed counterpart, manga comics, anime is a diverse field, producing everything from cute children's programs such as "Sailor Moon" — a superhero schoolgirl with impossibly long legs and big eyes — to violent and sexual images for Japan's otaku, or "nerd," subculture.
Many foreign fans have been won over by the imagination and intelligent story lines in the genre's most celebrated works. Others are drawn in simply by the vivid colors, fantastic characters and surreal landscapes common in anime.

If you ever have watched fansubs you will notice that they are anouncing some sponsors in the beginning of the episode.
So if they earn loads of money why do they have to have sponsors???
This is also true with DVD,s and bluerays, in the beginning of the DVD or bluray you prob will see the copyrigth thing, but you will also see names of companys so a DVD or a bluray box is very rarly a one company thing except in rare cases with big names like for instance studio ghibli.

How do i do spoilers with qoutes so my posts wont be a text of wall ? xD


The Wise Wizard
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Posted 7/2/10

Lodium wrote:
How do i do spoilers with qoutes so my posts wont be a text of wall ? xD

All the tags for the forum messages begin and end with square brackets " [ " & " ]' ", with forward slash " / " ahead of the text for the closing tag

To make it visible, I will substitute parenthesis for the brackets:

(spoiler)
Some text I want hidden
(/spoiler)

If you changed the parenthesis in the above to brackets, it would result in this:



FYI, it is best to put the spoiler tags within the open and close quote tags, otherwise the quote may not work correctly.

If you have not been already doing so, I advise using the "Preview Post" button to check if the result is what you want.
Lodium 
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Posted 7/3/10
Hmmm to another thing that has more with crunchy i think, but not totally sure of, why isnt Shinji's Deal of the Day available for my region?
This time it cant be due to region block thing since i just as easy can buy figures and other stuff from e-bay and such.
Just have to make sure its not a fake before i order and pay.

It shoudnt be too hard to include extra shipping fees to international customers,
The customs get paid and cleared here anyway , unless its some really dangerous item

Not that the dragonball card set was so intresting, but some of the figures was.
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Posted 7/3/10

Lodium wrote:

Hmmm to another thing that has more with crunchy i think, but not totally sure of, why isnt Shinji's Deal of the Day available for my region?
This time it cant be due to region block thing since i just as easy can buy figures and other stuff from e-bay and such.


Merchandise distributors (1) have different policies on areas that they ship to and (2) sometimes are indeed only licensed for a specific area.

All of them? No, but its more common for the primary sources that have return policies and warranties. And even on ebay, lots of stuff will ship to various countries, but lots of stuff is only sold to people in the same country.

Though I think it would be OK if some of the deals of the day were only in Oceania and Southeast Asia or only in Europe ... if there is a deal with that kind of limit, and its a bargain ... but they would have to have a big bold faced "A Special Deal for Our xxxxx Members!" on top.
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Posted 7/3/10

Lodium wrote: In many cases they have to pay the tv companys to broadcast it in japan and then hope it will get popular enough so ppl actually buy the merchandise and the anime DVD and evrything else that follows.


This is not the morning, or before and after prime time slots, but the 3am type broadcasts ... the same time of night where lots of US broadcasters have paid infomercials. These are often ecchi shows. Late at night there is a higher age rating and they can get away with a lot that is not possible on US broadcast television, but they still "censor" the video for broadcast to ensure sales of the DVD's and BD's.
Lodium 
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Posted 7/3/10 , edited 7/3/10

agila61 wrote:


Lodium wrote: In many cases they have to pay the tv companys to broadcast it in japan and then hope it will get popular enough so ppl actually buy the merchandise and the anime DVD and evrything else that follows.


This is not the morning, or before and after prime time slots, but the 3am type broadcasts ... the same time of night where lots of US broadcasters have paid infomercials. These are often ecchi shows. Late at night there is a higher age rating and they can get away with a lot that is not possible on US broadcast television, but they still "censor" the video for broadcast to ensure sales of the DVD's and BD's.


Hmm, im not totally sure of how it works prime time and not prime time slots.
But heres a chart that explains how it works in most cases

http://zepy.momotato.com/img/0808/kaneganai.jpg

And offcourse they edit the infomercials.and the comercials away before they produce the DVD,s

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Posted 7/3/10

Lodium wrote:

Hmm, im not totally sure of how it works prime time and not prime time slots.
But heres a chart that explains how it works in most cases

http://zepy.momotato.com/img/0808/kaneganai.jpg

And offcourse they edit the infomercials.and the comercials away before they produce the DVD,s


Yes, that is the normal way around, where the production company generates money from the broadcast. Of course, just like in US broadcast television, the majority of the advertising/sponsorship money goes to the broadcasting, and a minority goes to the payment for the content.

For the middle of the night anime, the arrows across the top where the advertisers pay for the broadcast as normal are a lot skinner, because the ratings are very slender, and the difference is made up by the production studio, so where money flows into the production studio in the chart you show, for the middle of the night anime that arrow points upward, with the production studio hoping to make it up out of greater copyright income than an OVA-only release would do. However, since there is much less competition for broadcast time late at night, the total money required to get onto the air is lower.

From there you can see why even fairly modest simulcast revenue can be quite handy to the production studio ... if CR can grow to the point that it is generating $10,000 out of the ~$90,000 cost to produce an episode, that can be quite handy for keeping production studios in business.
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Posted 7/3/10 , edited 7/5/10
well, yes and no.
The creators in japan and the studios unless they are pretty big names like madhouse, studio ghibli, are getting wery little paid.
In many cases they have to pay the tv companys to broadcast it in japan and then hope it will get popular enough so ppl actually buy the merchandise and the anime DVD and evrything else that follows.
Heres an old article i will quote a bit from, but it still holds somewhat truth today.
In anime, the hours are long and the pay paltry. But for many Japanese, it's still a dream job.
TOKYO — The starting pay can be less than $500 a month in this, the world's most expensive city, but becoming an illustrator in Japan's famed anime industry remains the fantasy of thousands of young Japanese.
In scores of cramped studios, largely clustered in two small districts of western Tokyo, young illustrators lean over desks, producing page after page of drawings that eventually will be turned into cartoons for broadcast in Japan and, increasingly, overseas.

Despite the huge popularity of the industry and its growing cachet internationally, even big studios typically pay recruits between $1,200 and $1,800 a month. Their counterparts in Tokyo office jobs earn up to twice as much, including benefits such as subsidized accommodation and train passes. Even convenience-store work pays $8 an hour.

Although "anime" simply means animation, the product differs from U.S. cartoons and animated films in that it is not geared mostly to children. Like its printed counterpart, manga comics, anime is a diverse field, producing everything from cute children's programs such as "Sailor Moon" — a superhero schoolgirl with impossibly long legs and big eyes — to violent and sexual images for Japan's otaku, or "nerd," subculture.
Many foreign fans have been won over by the imagination and intelligent story lines in the genre's most celebrated works. Others are drawn in simply by the vivid colors, fantastic characters and surreal landscapes common in anime.

If you ever have watched fansubs you will notice that they are anouncing some sponsors in the beginning of the episode.
So if they earn loads of money why do they have to have sponsors???
This is also true with DVD,s and bluerays, in the beginning of the DVD or bluray you prob will see the copyrigth thing, but you will also see names of companys so a DVD or a bluray box is very rarly a one company thing except in rare cases with big names like for instance studio ghibli.

How do i do spoilers with qoutes so my posts wont be a text of wall ? xD





Yes lodium I've already been to that post from 2008 and read most of it. I skimmed through alot of the pages too. Thats one post that is one sided. Its hard for me to believe that a buisness was started in a country that can't generate enough revenue that it would have to resort to global broad cast. From what I know it went globally because it discovered that western people actually liked it. What I'd like to know is why did they start making something that was not going to produce any money in their country thats crazy!!!
I'm sorry but, until I do more indepth research on this I'm not going to take the post of one single stranger and say thats truth. Because theres a lot of truth out there.

Another fact of the matter is alot of animes don't have endings they just stall thats why I never buy those dvds.
maybe those studios that are having trouble is more because they didn't complete what they started with each series?
thats the reason why they didn't get alot of sales in Japan.

Second, I don't want dvds I want blu-ray the only thing I will buy is blu-ray. dvds are crap just like vhs is now crap.
Like one series I'm dying to purchase is Elfen Lied and I want a blu-ray version of it on one disc. I don't care if its upscaled its still
gonna be a bit better than dvd and not be a throw away 5 years from now.


For certain studios that are struggling and produce excellent series I'd love to see Cr help them move along to where they wouldn't be struggling,
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 7/3/10
Even in the U.S., it is not unusual for the studio producing a series to make little or no profit from the "first run" sale of a series to a network. I it reasonable to expect the market in Japan works much the same way.

In the days before home video, the only hope of a series being truly profitable was international sales and syndication (the latter of which could be quite profitable for a popular and long running series). VHS and DVD really expanded the market, somewhat at the expense of syndication.


revengesrage wrote:
I'm sorry but, until I do more indepth research on this I'm not going to take the post of one single stranger and say thats truth. Because theres a lot of truth out there.

How about this, it is 5 years old, but is from a report by the Japan External Trade Organization:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2005-08-10/state-of-animation-industry-in-japan

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Posted 7/5/10
hey agila I had tottaly missed what you said earlier thanks for clarifying those things that makes so much sense. I really do hope the creators in time will let us be more flexible in that area. Thanks
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Posted 7/8/10
Crunchyroll is great because it has a huge selection of legally distributed anime, a well-thought out/profitable membership system, and its deal system is better than a store because you always only have a limited time to make your purchase.

But you never know what deal will be up next, the dramas that Crunchyroll simulcasts, as well as some anime like Koihime Musou, are pretty bad (but I guess with a lot of variety in terms of what to watch that's just nitpicking), and the videos have a lot of trouble buffering at 720P, which means long wait times.
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