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What's the point of: Atheism?
Posted 7/3/10

ferer56 wrote:

I find it interesting that all societies from the beginning of time have found various gods and goddesses to explain how things are and what will happen when people die. Its so universal among humans that its shocking that so many different societies in history many without knowledge of the beliefs of different peoples, could create the wealth of mythology that captivates us even today. Religion evolves as society evolves, and as some socities crumble their beliefs vanish with them, societies that thrive retain their religion and may even impose it upon those whom they have conquered or steal beliefs from those they have conquered. Relgion can also change depending on shifting social norms and attitudes, attitudes that may favor a newer set of God(s) over the older set.
Indeed, especially when the world's leading monolithic religions all originated from pastoral societies, while this type of nomadic societies all have a warrior culture, as well as a gender inequality of them valuing men as nomadic warriors more so than domesticated women. The fact that their religious doctrines are filled with reference of a pastoral lifestyle of standards and values proves it. I mean come on, they even named their spiritual leaders with the title of "pastors".
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Posted 7/3/10
I am Atheist myself. I don't try to tell people not to believe in a god or gods. I am against organized religion, however.

I believe organized religion is a dangerous thing.

There is not many things more personal than faith. It is what you believe as a person. Organized religion mars that by effectively trying to tell you what you believe. There are so many people that only believe bits and pieces of what their organization tells them, but still call themselves part of that religion. A lot of people I know are effected by their religion in a very negative way.

I'll just tell you first about my old room-mate. We will call him Nick. Nick was born into a mormon family. As a child of course, he was raised as a mormon. Like every teen-age kid though, he had a streak of unruliness. He decided in that time that he did not want to be mormon anymore. His family disowned him and kicked him out of the house. A teenager, not old enough to get a job or housing for himself, was kicked out of the house. Did I mention he lived in Alaska? That is pretty important. Anyway, his experiance was not a positive one of course, so cold, scared and desperate he went back home and claimed he had learned "the error of his ways".

Now in that time, Nick had slept with a woman once. One of the ultimate goals of mormonism is to meet your "soul mate" and be married in the temple of moronai. But because of that one "indiscretion" he is now unworthy of the temple. Of course this brings him a great deal of turmoil, knowing that he will never reach one of the highest religious goals, no matter how hard he tries.

Of course, Nick's story is a bit extreme, but there are lots of people that are pressured into being religious for fear of being cast out from their community. It's not a type of stress that someone should have to worry about.

Now I think religion is a dangerous thing for several reasons. The most basic is stress and peer pressure on the youth. Telling them they will go to hell if they won't believe this, or that god will smite them, or telling them that they must be willing lay down their life for this or that religion. It's disgusting. Not only are you taking the child's right to choose, but you are giving them unneeded stress and anxiety.

Also, organized religion has resulted in millions of lost lives over holy wars and other various religious endeavors. But everyone knows that, This violent behavior continues on today with general mistreatment of anyone of a different faith, Atheists, gays, women(less nowadays, but still happens), people of different cultures, etc. Creating hostile environments for people at work, school and at even at home. Not to mention the fact that Atheists such as myself are unable to run for public office for no reason other than the fact that we don't believe in the same things they do.

So there are a lot of reasons why I would try to convince someone to renounce their religion, but I would never ask them to renounce their faith or what they truly believe in because that is separate.
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Posted 7/3/10

Deathguitar wrote:

Okay, if you are, or 'claim' to be a Atheist. Please, can I get a answer on why do most, always broadcast their thoughts and mind's and try to convert a person, and Shun a human being. Not speaking for the whole general Atheist public,
But, can I get someone to ponder of what's the point of making someone not believe in something that give's a human, Morals,responsibilities, etc?


-DG



Not sure what you mean by "most" atheists broadcasting their thoughts and minds to try to convert people. In my experience most atheists don't try to force their beliefs on others. (Similarly, most religious people I've met haven't tried to convert me.)

I also don't get your question about "making" someone disbelieve. First of all, I don't think anyone can be made to believe or disbelieve anything - (dis)belief in a given God/gods is something deeply personal and no-one can "make" someone's beliefs change, though if their arguments are persuasive enough they might reconsider their beliefs. Second, morals and responsibilities are not purely religious/theistic ideas; an atheist can have a strong sense of right and wrong, and a religious person can behave in an immoral way, even contravening the rules of their own religion.

As for the "point" of atheism, there is no "point" as such, though the same could be said of any belief system. It is simply a view of the world that makes sense to atheists, in the same way that a belief in a deity/deities makes sense to a theist.
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Posted 7/3/10 , edited 7/4/10

Lilithe wrote:

I am Atheist myself. I don't try to tell people not to believe in a god or gods. I am against organized religion, however.

I believe organized religion is a dangerous thing.

There is not many things more personal than faith. It is what you believe as a person. Organized religion mars that by effectively trying to tell you what you believe. There are so many people that only believe bits and pieces of what their organization tells them, but still call themselves part of that religion. A lot of people I know are effected by their religion in a very negative way.

I'll just tell you first about my old room-mate. We will call him Nick. Nick was born into a mormon family. As a child of course, he was raised as a mormon. Like every teen-age kid though, he had a streak of unruliness. He decided in that time that he did not want to be mormon anymore. His family disowned him and kicked him out of the house. A teenager, not old enough to get a job or housing for himself, was kicked out of the house. Did I mention he lived in Alaska? That is pretty important. Anyway, his experiance was not a positive one of course, so cold, scared and desperate he went back home and claimed he had learned "the error of his ways".

Now in that time, Nick had slept with a woman once. One of the ultimate goals of mormonism is to meet your "soul mate" and be married in the temple of moronai. But because of that one "indiscretion" he is now unworthy of the temple. Of course this brings him a great deal of turmoil, knowing that he will never reach one of the highest religious goals, no matter how hard he tries.

Of course, Nick's story is a bit extreme, but there are lots of people that are pressured into being religious for fear of being cast out from their community. It's not a type of stress that someone should have to worry about.

Now I think religion is a dangerous thing for several reasons. The most basic is stress and peer pressure on the youth. Telling them they will go to hell if they won't believe this, or that god will smite them, or telling them that they must be willing lay down their life for this or that religion. It's disgusting. Not only are you taking the child's right to choose, but you are giving them unneeded stress and anxiety.

Also, organized religion has resulted in millions of lost lives over holy wars and other various religious endeavors. But everyone knows that, This violent behavior continues on today with general mistreatment of anyone of a different faith, Atheists, gays, women(less nowadays, but still happens), people of different cultures, etc. Creating hostile environments for people at work, school and at even at home. Not to mention the fact that Atheists such as myself are unable to run for public office for no reason other than the fact that we don't believe in the same things they do.

So there are a lot of reasons why I would try to convince someone to renounce their religion, but I would never ask them to renounce their faith or what they truly believe in because that is separate.


THIS. Well said.

Belief is one thing. Organised Religion another.

I was raised in one of the most liberal churches in north America. It's heirarchy was a representative democracy with no pretensions to being anything other than a secular instrument for taking care of the secular needs of the church as a whole. It was the first Church in Canada to ordain women (doing so before some provinces gave them the vote) It began ordaining openly gay ministers in the early 1980's.

It was too organised for me.

The United Church of Canada BTW. is financially strapped due to reparations to various native communities for it's part in the previous generation's failed and abusive residential school system.

even a looney left church can be guilty of harm to the communities it purports to save.

((edited for some glaring spelling errors. I should know better than to post at 0300 hours))

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Posted 7/4/10

Deathguitar wrote:

Okay, if you are, or 'claim' to be a Atheist. Please, can I get a answer on why do most, always broadcast their thoughts and mind's and try to convert a person, and Shun a human being. Not speaking for the whole general Atheist public,
But, can I get someone to ponder of what's the point of making someone not believe in something that give's a human, Morals,responsibilities, etc?


-DG



Well as a child when I learn god not god dam you. I begged the bustard to kill me my mind was twisting with pain. I help people out because I want I do not give shit about blessing. Some time people say god I will get a blessing from god and I tell straight, I did whatever was because, they needed not because a god I do not believe in. one too many concussion baby sitter that used as sex toy Fuck a god and religions that push it. Why do I have ethical code I sure it ingrain with are being and not wanting to be like my parents I lived terror and even after I left the those scares will be there. Somebody gets to close I pull back If somebody touches me I turn snow-white skin collar. It used to be worse seeing past and present tunnel vision. Did drugs trying to understand why I was so fuck up? After the fear of god went away, I had done better. I over post when a bible thumper comes to my door I great them with my shotgun broke open showing the shell. I tell them to get off my land it posted. If you beale in god good for you people want to beleive in a higher power. Me i just do not care,
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Posted 7/4/10

Deathguitar wrote:

Okay, if you are, or 'claim' to be a Atheist. Please, can I get a answer on why do most, always broadcast their thoughts and mind's and try to convert a person, and Shun a human being. Not speaking for the whole general Atheist public,
But, can I get someone to ponder of what's the point of making someone not believe in something that give's a human, Morals,responsibilities, etc?


-DG



Actually most atheists don't force their beliefs on people, just as most religious people don't force their beliefs on people. It's just that the ones who are trying to shove their beliefs down other people's throats are really obnoxious and give the rest of us a bad name.

The reason why people do it, whether they are theist or atheist, is because they don't truly have faith in their own beliefs, so they have to boost their confidence by trying to make other people think the same way as they do. They figure that the more people who believe in what they do, the more "true" their beliefs are, and anyone who doesn't believe must be stupid. It's just a silly little game to hide their own insecurities.

I'm an agnostic atheist btw.
Posted 7/4/10
Atheism is for me and everyone. So follow this path leading to nowhere. See nothing above or below. Hear no hallowed words. Be free and continue on with your daily labors.
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Posted 7/4/10
Okay, so why does this subject always have to be compared to or argued against the subject of Christianity or other religions?????
Atheism may be an alternative system of thoughts &/or 'beliefs', & thru these forums, I've greatly broadened my understanding & appreciation for the thought processes, morals, & creativity of the atheist mind. I think I have this attitude -- despite my own Christianity -- because I'm willing to accept them w/o the comparisons or judgments.
I would like to explore the perspectives/ viewpoints of my atheist friends, optimism vs pessimism, pros & cons, you know, life & opinions in general to the specific. & W/O religion added.
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Posted 7/4/10
Well I might not believe in any religion, but I believe in justice. Just because someone does'nt have a religion doesnt mean that there morals are different than yours. I have read many books on serial killers and guess what most of them believed in catholicism. I might not believe in an god, but I will make it my goal in life to protect others from deaths that are unnatural and many other crimes against them. When It comes down to it I found that out that praying to a god is a waste of time. It is up to you do what you believe is right, it is up to you to get where you wish to be and it is up to you to make your life a good one. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!
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Posted 7/4/10

farmbird wrote:

Okay, so why does this subject always have to be compared to or argued against the subject of Christianity or other religions?????


Because whenever there is a discussion about belief systems, there is almost always at least one close-minded jerk who comes along and tells everyone that their beliefs are true, that all other belief systems are false, and that anyone who disagrees with them is stupid and/or going to hell. So the other people start to defend their beliefs, and the argument begins.
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Posted 7/6/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


farmbird wrote:

Okay, so why does this subject always have to be compared to or argued against the subject of Christianity or other religions?????


Because whenever there is a discussion about belief systems, there is almost always at least one close-minded jerk who comes along and tells everyone that their beliefs are true, that all other belief systems are false, and that anyone who disagrees with them is stupid and/or going to hell. So the other people start to defend their beliefs, and the argument begins.


Cept you can't argue against said one closed minded idiot because well they're an idiot. So basically the thread derails into the same pointless arguments until it finally gets locked.
Posted 7/6/10 , edited 7/6/10
Hear hear... after reading the OP I get the impression that Atheists are very selfish, and sadistic creatures. I mean, good grief, they shun 'human beings'! (does this imply that atheists are not human?) And they do not have morals because they lack a holy book that's full of immoral verses! They're immoral simply because they do not want to be part of an organised religion. God shall damn them!

What happens if we replace 'atheists' with 'monotheists' in the OP? Yeah, what's the point of religious people trying to convince others to join their sects, and to share the same belief as them -- to go even so far as to threaten them with torture, and death? Well, if you can answer to that, DeathGuitar, then you've partially answered your own question.
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Posted 7/6/10
You should never have to apologize for your beliefs unless you are trying to force them on someone else. I was raised very religiously. Bible camp, Sunday school, confirmation classes, and catechism classes along with going to church twice a week. When I was old enough to decide for myself I realized the only thing I really believed in was right and wrong.
Posted 7/7/10 , edited 7/7/10
^And what is right, and what is wrong?
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Posted 7/7/10
These kind of discussion are so pointless. That's all I'm gunna say.
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