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Why do young people place some much value on looks?
Posted 9/17/10

gal69lag wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


gal69lag wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

It's not my fault that kids these days don't watch high quality programs like Star Trek anymore. You would think that people who compete for the best looking Klingon could care less about acting normal, much less being beautiful.

Now can you truly see just how foolish it is to objectify real beauty without good health? When looking beautifully is subjective to change, based on whatever that's culturally defined as the social norms.


Yeah okay, Star Trek is from what century? What teenager watches that anymore (except for some)? And then there's the new Star Trek where, again, the cast is full of beautiful people.

We watch what's on TV and all that's on TV is shows and movies about high school drama and whatnot.
That's why I said that even though we value looks so much during our high school years, as the years go on we grow out of that phase. 'Beautiful' is subjective to change, but whatever is accepted as beautiful will be put up on a pedestal time and time again.
Why do you think I placed that comment in bold in the first place? What's empirically to be healthy is objectively desirable from nature's perspective, when anything that's subjective to change because it's the nature of abstract thoughts, aka ideas. Thereby as a fitness trainer, I see beauty in health and fitness. As a lover, I see beauty in my partner. As an individualist, I see beauty in individuality. As a Trekkie, I see beauty in diversity. I'm only as young as how I feel, but for someone feeling sick and tired about what's beautiful, what does that say about them? A lack of passion.



And YOU are not GETTING it. I'm not 'sick and tired' of what's beautiful, I'm sick and tired of the media's portrayal of beauty. Superficial beauty and not inner beauty.
But when your Islamic faith regulates even your social life, what's not to say you're ignoring the social status quote?
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Posted 9/17/10

DomFortress wrote:


gal69lag wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


gal69lag wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

It's not my fault that kids these days don't watch high quality programs like Star Trek anymore. You would think that people who compete for the best looking Klingon could care less about acting normal, much less being beautiful.

Now can you truly see just how foolish it is to objectify real beauty without good health? When looking beautifully is subjective to change, based on whatever that's culturally defined as the social norms.


Yeah okay, Star Trek is from what century? What teenager watches that anymore (except for some)? And then there's the new Star Trek where, again, the cast is full of beautiful people.

We watch what's on TV and all that's on TV is shows and movies about high school drama and whatnot.
That's why I said that even though we value looks so much during our high school years, as the years go on we grow out of that phase. 'Beautiful' is subjective to change, but whatever is accepted as beautiful will be put up on a pedestal time and time again.
Why do you think I placed that comment in bold in the first place? What's empirically to be healthy is objectively desirable from nature's perspective, when anything that's subjective to change because it's the nature of abstract thoughts, aka ideas. Thereby as a fitness trainer, I see beauty in health and fitness. As a lover, I see beauty in my partner. As an individualist, I see beauty in individuality. As a Trekkie, I see beauty in diversity. I'm only as young as how I feel, but for someone feeling sick and tired about what's beautiful, what does that say about them? A lack of passion.



And YOU are not GETTING it. I'm not 'sick and tired' of what's beautiful, I'm sick and tired of the media's portrayal of beauty. Superficial beauty and not inner beauty.
But when your Islamic faith regulates even your social life, what's not to say you're ignoring the social status quote?



What makes you think my religion regulates my social life? I follow my religion but its not like everything I do or say has something to do with my religion.
Posted 9/17/10

gal69lag wrote:

What makes you think my religion regulates my social life? I follow my religion but its not like everything I do or say has something to do with my religion.
But your religion has everything to do with what's culturally considered as legal within the Muslim state's legislation. In other words, the Islamic teaching is the only definition of what's considered as the social norms within the Muslim societies, so your argument is moot.
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Posted 9/17/10
-_-; i love how the two of you are talking about religion even in an area that is concerned about "young people and their body image".

anyways................

via a study that i read a while ago; it states that women are happiest and believe they look the prettiest around early 30s (and in love). (why? 'cause they're now more mature, more confident in themselves and with the person they love telling them they're beautiful; they will feel and start to look more beautiful.)

But; to be on topic; "Why do young people place so much value on looks?"

answer: It's hard to say. First of all; it's not ONLY young people who place value on looks --- if only young people gave a damn; then plastic surgery would be out of business; 'cause clearly; as a young person; we don't have that kind of money to get plastic surgery. (damn rich kids excluded.)

and factually; the better you look; the easier it is for you to get jobs; and the easier it is for you to get higher pay.

So, the better question to ask is... who don't place value on looks?

Answer: No body.

Even babies; naturally; they have the tendency to like prettier people more.

So it is only fair; and normal for young people to place "value" (the words "So much" is a bit...of a weasel-term.) on looks. -- just like everyone else.

but i will admit; sometimes; some of us, young people, do get out of control. even myself; 5'9 and 130 pounds is concerned about my weight and would LOVE to lose that ten pounds. (>.>; though that would put me under weight.)

We're young. We make mistakes. And with the cultural (western) influences and media and even social expectations...--- all of those things and more; kicking us every step that we walk and urging us every moment of our lives to be: Skinny, beautiful, and smart.

It's hard. Our value on looks is passed down by adults; placed there by others; placed their by ourselves; and -- it'll stay here with us.
Posted 9/17/10 , edited 9/17/10

Omok wrote:

-_-; i love how the two of you are talking about religion even in an area that is concerned about "young people and their body image".

anyways................

via a study that i read a while ago; it states that women are happiest and believe they look the prettiest around early 30s (and in love). (why? 'cause they're now more mature, more confident in themselves and with the person they love telling them they're beautiful; they will feel and start to look more beautiful.)

But; to be on topic; "Why do young people place so much value on looks?"

answer: It's hard to say. First of all; it's not ONLY young people who place value on looks --- if only young people gave a damn; then plastic surgery would be out of business; 'cause clearly; as a young person; we don't have that kind of money to get plastic surgery. (damn rich kids excluded.)

and factually; the better you look; the easier it is for you to get jobs; and the easier it is for you to get higher pay.

So, the better question to ask is... who don't place value on looks?

Answer: No body.

Even babies; naturally; they have the tendency to like prettier people more.

So it is only fair; and normal for young people to place "value" (the words "So much" is a bit...of a weasel-term.) on looks. -- just like everyone else.

but i will admit; sometimes; some of us, young people, do get out of control. even myself; 5'9 and 130 pounds is concerned about my weight and would LOVE to lose that ten pounds. (>.>; though that would put me under weight.)

We're young. We make mistakes. And with the cultural (western) influences and media and even social expectations...--- all of those things and more; kicking us every step that we walk and urging us every moment of our lives to be: Skinny, beautiful, and smart.

It's hard. Our value on looks is passed down by adults; placed there by others; placed their by ourselves; and -- it'll stay here with us.
Then look for alternative role models of grace, wisdom, and optimistic. Of introspective, passionate, and enlightening. Of traditional and modern values, and how well they apply to the choices that we make throughout not just our own life, but the lives of others'.
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Posted 9/17/10
Well looks have to do with a lot of things. The way people perceive you and the way that you perceive yourself deals with your looks, actions and intelligence. Example: If you had blue eyes when people talk to you they are more likely to be kind toward you no matter what. This is because it is easy to see the pupil of a person with blue eyes. So that person feels more relax and secure. That person will feel less likely to be disrespected and manipulated by you. All of these actions are processed by the unconscious mind of a human.

If you didn't like the previous example or it was unclear then this might suffice. If you others think that you are beautiful then you will most likely feel the exact same way. This will also give you more confidence when approaching others because one might think "How could a person dislike one as beautiful as I" or "I will definitely be able to obtain this guy's heart because he won't be able to resist my good looks".

The point that I am trying to get across to everyone is that questions like this one just have to many factors involved. Not everyone bases everything on looks because they want to or not, but their unconscious mind often does look for physical traits first. Unfortunately it is just natural human behavior and unless there is some other factor at play like emotions or environment then you yourself and many others will probably fall victim to you unconscious mind. I do realize that there are a lot of people that just focus on looks because that how they are, but you may put many people in their category that shouldn't be because of what I explained in the previous texts. Hope this was some what helpful.

-Jamil Johnson
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Posted 9/17/10 , edited 9/17/10
Ah; only if everyone can follow that model you have proposed. Much easier said than done.

Ideologies are always great on paper.
Posted 9/17/10

Omok wrote:

Ah; only if everyone can follow that model you have proposed. Much easier said than done.

Ideologies are always great on paper.
But we're no longer dealing only with paper now, and the social mechanism was already there way before the invention of the Internet.
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Posted 9/17/10
and clearly with the history that we have with these social mechanism; they seem to have worked very well, eh?
Posted 9/17/10 , edited 9/17/10

Omok wrote:

and clearly with the history that we have with these social mechanism; they seem to have worked very well, eh?
It's only due to a lack of true courage that things didn't turn out so well in the past for us, IMHO:

DomFortress wrote:

This introspective viewpoint of yours is much welcomed, IMHO. And you're quite right to say that unwarranted fear is the cause of this rampant ignorance coming from both sides of the argument. And yet, while we all know that media sensationalism is the medium of this fear, it's hardly the source of all that we fear, no. For I would argue that most of us only fear the unknown, and our ignorance was only the result of us justifying our lack of understanding and the subsequent refusal/denial of the facts. Because like it or not, we find safety and trust in whatever that we perceived as predictable, so whenever we normalized fear as an everyday occurrence with the help of the mass medias, then the irony is that we entrenched ourselves and our actions with our fear because it's the social norms. For we humans are social animals, thus we automatically and intuitively make our decisions based on our subconscious and emotional selves, which is biologically subjective to the manipulation of social mechanism.

This cultural mirror will demonstrate how my theory works.

EDIT: As an afterthought(been getting quite of those as of late), what I've theorized is the sociological design for a vicious cycle. And it can be the start of just about any kind of social movement, that will result in the change of the societal status quote. In other words, this function is itself neither good or bad, because good things such as the civil rights movement, the gay marriage movement, and the environmentalist, sustainability and conservation movements are all the changes-in-progress, that's making our global society as a whole a much better place. And to do that this wanton self-denial about the fact of reality has got to stop. For true courage is the realization that failure is always an option, when nature itself consists of randomness, uncertainty, complexity, and chaos. But a fear of failure is an excuse for us to hold onto unrealistic expectations, obligations, traditions, and subsequently obstructing our opportunity for real change.
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Posted 9/18/10


It's only due to a lack of true courage that things didn't turn out so well in the past for us, IMHO:

There is an explanation to go around almost everything. Proclaiming that there's only 'one' thing we need to change or obtain and then we, as mankind, can rise above all that have came before us, and change ourselves to a new...thing. i suppose.

Is not practical.

We are shaped by others. We shape others; others shape us.

we cannot, through courage (or whatever else), drop all the expectations we hold for ourselves and all the expectations that others hold for us -- hence why young people put such an emphasis on their looks.

Like i've said; ideologies always sound great on paper; it seems to make some degree of sense; but it cannot be obtainable; it is merely an ideology. -- Our differences, that each and every single one of us hold in our Genes, will always prevent us from reaching some kind of 'level' or degree, as an uniformed body; together; and solve all the shit in the world. -- it just wouldn't happen, because we're all different.
Posted 9/18/10

Omok wrote:



It's only due to a lack of true courage that things didn't turn out so well in the past for us, IMHO:

There is an explanation to go around almost everything. Proclaiming that there's only 'one' thing we need to change or obtain and then we, as mankind, can rise above all that have came before us, and change ourselves to a new...thing. i suppose.

Is not practical.

We are shaped by others. We shape others; others shape us.

we cannot, through courage (or whatever else), drop all the expectations we hold for ourselves and all the expectations that others hold for us -- hence why young people put such an emphasis on their looks.

Like i've said; ideologies always sound great on paper; it seems to make some degree of sense; but it cannot be obtainable; it is merely an ideology. -- Our differences, that each and every single one of us hold in our Genes, will always prevent us from reaching some kind of 'level' or degree, as an uniformed body; together; and solve all the shit in the world. -- it just wouldn't happen, because we're all different.
But wouldn't that created the unique opportunity that our individual difference makes us capable of solving different problems as a specie striving for survival? That moral and ethic became the tactics for peaceful conflict resolutions of sharing natural talents as human resourcefulness.

And last but not least, we humans put emphasis on look because we are pattern-seeking visual specie. So that ideas based on us observing the laws of nature are in fact the reality, otherwise we humans as a specie couldn't fly if not for the existence of birds, that led to the discovery of aerodynamics.
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Posted 9/18/10
"But wouldn't that created the unique opportunity that our individual difference makes us capable of solving different problems as a specie striving for survival?"

we're CAPABLE of solving all the problems in the world --- just like how we created most of them in the first place.

But we're INCAPABLE to actually achieve those things because we are humans. - we are greedy. we're self-obsessed. and our own profits will over rule all other factors. (Don't gimme the speech saying that we can CHANGE. The fact is; our greediness and self-absorbedness is something that drives our world. It will always be something that governs us as a species; else we would not have survived for this long.)

What we perceive as pretty or beautiful is also in-part, dictated by our natural instincts. By looks; (before plastic surgery), we assess every person we meet using different senses, (whether we're conscious of those senses or not is another story). -- For a wonderful example; men, biologically driven, likes women with big breasts? Why? 'cause that's a signal that she is more fertile. -- Can produce good babies. (Of course; when people jump in to be together nowadays, what's on their conscious mind is probably ANYTHING but kids. -- but offsprings is probably on the top of the list in our unconscious mind.)
Posted 9/18/10

Omok wrote:

"But wouldn't that created the unique opportunity that our individual difference makes us capable of solving different problems as a specie striving for survival?"

we're CAPABLE of solving all the problems in the world --- just like how we created most of them in the first place.

But we're INCAPABLE to actually achieve those things because we are humans. - we are greedy. we're self-obsessed. and our own profits will over rule all other factors. (Don't gimme the speech saying that we can CHANGE. The fact is; our greediness and self-absorbedness is something that drives our world. It will always be something that governs us as a species; else we would not have survived for this long.)

What we perceive as pretty or beautiful is also in-part, dictated by our natural instincts. By looks; (before plastic surgery), we assess every person we meet using different senses, (whether we're conscious of those senses or not is another story). -- For a wonderful example; men, biologically driven, likes women with big breasts? Why? 'cause that's a signal that she is more fertile. -- Can produce good babies. (Of course; when people jump in to be together nowadays, what's on their conscious mind is probably ANYTHING but kids. -- but offsprings is probably on the top of the list in our unconscious mind.)
That's the rationale of a psychopath, so are you telling me that you prefer antisocial behaviors as the social norms? Do you even know about the existence of the mirror neurons and how they work? How our social selves couldn't have existed if it wasn't for our empathetic nature?

And speaking of human nature, the only healthy indications of a woman that's fertile are her strong legs and hips.

Finally, our unconsciousness/subconsciousness is driven by our emotions. So even if we have negative emotions towards children, that still doesn't discourage us from having sex.

Ignorance only creates more problem by us not acknowledge that there's a problem in the first place.
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Posted 9/18/10

DomFortress wrote:


Omok wrote:

"But wouldn't that created the unique opportunity that our individual difference makes us capable of solving different problems as a specie striving for survival?"

we're CAPABLE of solving all the problems in the world --- just like how we created most of them in the first place.

But we're INCAPABLE to actually achieve those things because we are humans. - we are greedy. we're self-obsessed. and our own profits will over rule all other factors. (Don't gimme the speech saying that we can CHANGE. The fact is; our greediness and self-absorbedness is something that drives our world. It will always be something that governs us as a species; else we would not have survived for this long.)

What we perceive as pretty or beautiful is also in-part, dictated by our natural instincts. By looks; (before plastic surgery), we assess every person we meet using different senses, (whether we're conscious of those senses or not is another story). -- For a wonderful example; men, biologically driven, likes women with big breasts? Why? 'cause that's a signal that she is more fertile. -- Can produce good babies. (Of course; when people jump in to be together nowadays, what's on their conscious mind is probably ANYTHING but kids. -- but offsprings is probably on the top of the list in our unconscious mind.)
That's the rationale of a psychopath, so are you telling me that you prefer antisocial behaviors as the social norms? Do you even know about the existence of the mirror neurons and how they work? How our social selves couldn't have existed if it wasn't for our empathetic nature?

And speaking of human nature, the only healthy indications of a woman that's fertile are her strong legs and hips.

Finally, our unconsciousness/subconsciousness is driven by our emotions. So even if we have negative emotions towards children, that still doesn't discourage us from having sex.

Ignorance only creates more problem by us not acknowledge that there's a problem in the first place.


erm....psychopaths are people we cannot feel sympathy for others; who cannot feel guilt.

they do not need a rational to do anything 'bad' to others. They often do whatever bad things that they do, because they WANT to, or that thing will benefit them. --- no rational required. -__-;

-__-; as for what governs our unconscious subconscious, I'll leave that part out for the millions of psychologists who came before and after Freud that tried/trying to solve it.

Do you even know about the existence of the mirror neurons and how they work?

I don't; and i haven't got the need to. thankyouverymuch.

How our social selves couldn't have existed if it wasn't for our empathetic nature?

Correct; and that is why; only roughly 1/100 persons are psychopaths! (depends on what country you're looking at and what study.)

Ignorance only creates more problem by us not acknowledge that there's a problem in the first place.

Correct; but sadly; ignorance exists in every one of us. - Whether it be ignorance of ourselves; knowledge; others. Whatever it may be.

It is because we have ignorance, that drives us, humans, to seek out the truth and dump that ignorance. -- if we weren't ignorant in the first place; there would be no drive to improve society/world/ourselves; 'cause that would imply that we already KNOW everything there is to know.
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