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A Different Look at Human Values
Posted 7/11/10 , edited 7/11/10

Aztecnology wrote:

Insofar we can observe the quality of some relationships through our own resources. Money makes the world go round. For some immature people, it is virtually everything. When a man grows to meet the expectations of those close to him, he can better see how his interactions add up to something worth a hell of a lot more than any monetary gain. A woman can see that by overcoming the stereotype of being needy or weak-willed, she can have quite the impressive reputation comparable to anyone's.
All that I care about in those that I'm close to, is the strength of their personal convection and inner potential. I want my equals, not subordinates. Otherwise I won't stop looking for what's not really there.


Gev wrote:

I had a friend once who always said that there is no such thing as love , only fleeting moments of passion . Man, I miss her.
Then she had never truly lived to her fullest.
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Posted 7/12/10

DomFortress wrote:

farmbird wrote:
ok, I'll take the positive outlook--Rent a friend: can help develop social skills for those who may not know how to even start a conversation, or are anxious about initiating contacts-- you might have to pay for counseling or pay for an opportunity to experience it.Rent a white foreigner: even if it's for all the wrong reasons, this can't help but promote international interactions for both cultures.so, my take may be too idealistic, but there could be a little validity to these scenarios....................
But can you imagine how this ideology will play out itself? When you attached a price on human social behaviors that's supposed to be positive and monumental for advocating humanity. Keep in mind that this is attaching an artificial concept of economy as motivator, on what we humans naturally behave as social animals.That's right, it's gonna further jeopardize our already buggy moral codes. When we aren't even in control of our own decisions at all time.

You make this sound like some brand new ideology now threatening the fabric of our society & culture.......yet, we've had such behaviors throughout history. There's a reason prostitution is called the world's oldest profession. Sure, these without question have damaging effects on society, & have been argued ad nauseam. But civilization marches on (in fluctuating states of strength & weakness accordingly.) In addition to your aforementioned "Rent" scenarios, could we add hiring housekeepers, since people don't take responsibility for their own homes, or paying a personal [physical fitness] trainer to monitor their physical health, babysitters & daycare workers, how about nurses, secretaries, etc.?
What's wrong with paying someone for performing or providing a service or fulfilling a need or desire? As to motive, the same great motivator also has been with us since time began, ---it's called Laziness.
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Posted 7/12/10
She has a point. As a nurse I'm paid to be nicer than I really am.
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Posted 7/14/10
I don't see what the problem is with hiring a stranger to pretend to care about your issues.

Counselors, Psychologists, Private Detectives, Nurses, (perhaps) Doctors, Life Coaches, Personal Trainers, Golf Pros....

And yes hired "Wingmen" or "Wing Girls" and even prostitutes.


That's what we do. I'm a Nurse I don't know YOUR granny at all. But you Hire me and pay me to CARE about her as if she was mine. That's what I do. I care because it's my proffession and because I get paid. How I actually feel is my business. (I WISH I was a cold hearted bastard this job wouldn't be so heart breaking at times)


Now where it get's on to slippery moral ground is when you hire a person to pretend to other people that you have a relationship that you don't have. This is like the guy who rents a mercedes or a BMW just before his Junior High Reunion. It's pathetic and morally speaking:

It's a LIE.

That simple.
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Posted 7/14/10

tarakelly wrote:


Basically, they only one thing I can say, to the beginning of this whole mess freeloading socialists, or communist. Once you boil it all down that what you want is it not? Here an ideal I have work hard save and hope you have done well enough to provide for yourself when stop working pretty easy to do. Live in a tight budget and do not spend more than make when people live off credit all the time that pretty much say they can’t handle there finance very well.


I'm not sure what any of the above has to do with the political left. Nor what fiscal responsibility has to do with the jobs you take to make that money.

Posted 7/14/10

farmbird wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

farmbird wrote:
ok, I'll take the positive outlook--Rent a friend: can help develop social skills for those who may not know how to even start a conversation, or are anxious about initiating contacts-- you might have to pay for counseling or pay for an opportunity to experience it.Rent a white foreigner: even if it's for all the wrong reasons, this can't help but promote international interactions for both cultures.so, my take may be too idealistic, but there could be a little validity to these scenarios....................
But can you imagine how this ideology will play out itself? When you attached a price on human social behaviors that's supposed to be positive and monumental for advocating humanity. Keep in mind that this is attaching an artificial concept of economy as motivator, on what we humans naturally behave as social animals.That's right, it's gonna further jeopardize our already buggy moral codes. When we aren't even in control of our own decisions at all time.

You make this sound like some brand new ideology now threatening the fabric of our society & culture.......yet, we've had such behaviors throughout history. There's a reason prostitution is called the world's oldest profession. Sure, these without question have damaging effects on society, & have been argued ad nauseam. But civilization marches on (in fluctuating states of strength & weakness accordingly.) In addition to your aforementioned "Rent" scenarios, could we add hiring housekeepers, since people don't take responsibility for their own homes, or paying a personal [physical fitness] trainer to monitor their physical health, babysitters & daycare workers, how about nurses, secretaries, etc.?
What's wrong with paying someone for performing or providing a service or fulfilling a need or desire? As to motive, the same great motivator also has been with us since time began, ---it's called Laziness.

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

She has a point. As a nurse I'm paid to be nicer than I really am.
Because if you haven't seen the "correct" pattern already, the "motivator" you referred to as "laziness" was really "addiction". And it's not helping us to become more "civil" not "virtuous", when we as humans can only perform relatively simple tasks when we're addicted.

Honestly speaking, I didn't became good at what I like to do as a fitness trainer because I wanna get paid as one. When I just simply conditioned myself into like exercising, while I didn't become better at what I like to do after I got paid, no. I never once got paid in money as a fitness trainer, because I personally find it undignified of me to get paid for doing something that I already enjoy doing. In other words, I find the whole concept of applying business economy with whatever that I naturally and creatively do as a social animal to be counterproductive, because it doesn't make me a more "resourceful" person, IMHO.

To be more critically thinking, if I can get just half or even a third of what most people have to paid to hire a personal fitness trainer nowadays, I would gladly accept it. Because then objectively speaking I would be twice if not three times as efficient as any of my peers with my rate of charge, while personally I suffered no losses in my satisfactory of work; I already like what I do for what it is, so what's the need for more motivator? When I'm already self-motivated with whatever that I do, while I don't need a lot to survive as it is.


tarakelly wrote:


Basically, they only one thing I can say, to the beginning of this whole mess freeloading socialists, or communist. Once you boil it all down that what you want is it not? Here an ideal I have work hard save and hope you have done well enough to provide for yourself when stop working pretty easy to do. Live in a tight budget and do not spend more than make when people live off credit all the time that pretty much say they can’t handle there finance very well.
I have a better idea; you learn to shut up as a political propaganda addict. When my topic has got nothing to do with politics.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

I don't see what the problem is with hiring a stranger to pretend to care about your issues.

Counselors, Psychologists, Private Detectives, Nurses, (perhaps) Doctors, Life Coaches, Personal Trainers, Golf Pros....

And yes hired "Wingmen" or "Wing Girls" and even prostitutes.


That's what we do. I'm a Nurse I don't know YOUR granny at all. But you Hire me and pay me to CARE about her as if she was mine. That's what I do. I care because it's my profession and because I get paid. How I actually feel is my business. (I WISH I was a cold hearted bastard this job wouldn't be so heart breaking at times)


Now where it gets on to slippery moral ground is when you hire a person to pretend to other people that you have a relationship that you don't have. This is like the guy who rents a Mercedes or a BMW just before his Junior High Reunion. It's pathetic and morally speaking:

It's a LIE.

That simple.
Then I hope that you can see for yourself how you're getting paid to lie about the fact that you actually can care/relate to other people at work.
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Posted 7/14/10

DomFortress wrote:

Then I hope that you can see for yourself how you're getting paid to lie about the fact that you actually can care/relate to other people at work.


You misunderstand, I think.

As a nurse (or a detective or a personal trainer) I get paid to ACT like I care. My Behaviour and my Skills are the criteria, how much I actually care is irrelevant. The fact that I do care can be an asset (I'm motivated beyond money). and it's also a liability, I feel like my skin is wrapped around the people around me. Their pain, their grief, their distress, hurts me. tires me, renders me less efficient.

Hiring someone to pretend to be your trophy wife for a social function. hiring fake foreign executives for your company's events, even the "Wow this guy has friends who are girls and thus isn't a creeper' facet of the 'Wing Girls' concept is based on deception. it's a lie.




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Posted 7/15/10
Well after I read his statement about rent a friend then the second part that the conclusion I made. China Communist country but going more and more Capitalistic because communism dose not feed the people then materialist world tells me what was he leading to?
Posted 7/15/10

tarakelly wrote:

Well after I read his statement about rent a friend then the second part that the conclusion I made. China Communist country but going more and more Capitalistic because communism dose not feed the people then materialist world tells me what was he leading to?
And you think materialism and capitalism is feeding people how? When the fact is corporate fast food industry doesn't care about their consumers with their unhealthy practice, while other corporate businesses just don't care about their communities due to their business ethic of "the bottom line".

And when you didn't even know the topic of discussion, why are you even bother voicing your opinion? Are you that irrational and irresponsible with your expression? The topic is human values, not politic.
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Posted 7/15/10
Well ask the Chines why their moving in that direction? Look no one said Capitalism is perfect but it does beat all the rest so far.
Posted 7/15/10

tarakelly wrote:

Well ask the Chines why their moving in that direction? Look no one said Capitalism is perfect but it does beat all the rest so far.
By completely and utterly disregarding both moral and ethic, while undermining both society and culture? That's the only way I can see how materialism and capitalism can come out ahead; as a global bully.
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Posted 7/15/10
You live in Candia so why complain about us here in the states just because you Canadians that need real medical care come here what’s the big deal. You have cheaper drugs than us too bad you do not have enough really good doctors up there. I think I stay here unless taxes keep going higher then I will move. I have many friends that are talking about pulling the plug out and retiring. Why take so much risk and some loser wants a hand out.
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Posted 7/15/10

DomFortress wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

Well ask the Chines why their moving in that direction? Look no one said Capitalism is perfect but it does beat all the rest so far.
By completely and utterly disregarding both moral and ethic, while undermining both society and culture? That's the only way I can see how materialism and capitalism can come out ahead; as a global bully.


I get the frustrations the implications that "rent a status" creates for you in your opening premise, & in the arguments you've made thus far. For the sake of discussion & awareness, I'm okay with the back & forth on these issues, but the responses you've been making to my & others comments don't really offer alternatives, but merely names additional problems (translation: critical complaints) you see with society.
tarakelly's point of asking the Chinese their reason for moving in that direction is valid. As to capitalism, for all the problems it has, it seems to be the one form of finance most resilient to fluctuations ( as long as government doesn't screw with it too much). Capitalism can be operated by either greed or philanthropic motives, but generally it's just common man's efforts to earn & spend as they personally see fit. So let him spend it & rent what ever he wants if he honestly worked to earn it. For those experimenting in capitalism, sometimes the best lessons are to live & learn, experiencing the consequences of their choices.
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Posted 7/15/10

tarakelly wrote:

You live in Candia so why complain about us here in the states just because you Canadians that need real medical care come here what’s the big deal. You have cheaper drugs than us too bad you do not have enough really good doctors up there. I think I stay here unless taxes keep going higher then I will move. I have many friends that are talking about pulling the plug out and retiring. Why take so much risk and some loser wants a hand out.


No one is inviting you. and you wouldn't like it up here. our biggest oldest and most often in power political party even has 'Leeeeeberaal" in it's proper name. I'd much rather live with the health care system we have. It needs repairs but it works well for a heck of a lot of us.

I'm Canadian too. why not complain? He's talking about two trends in otherwise radically opposed societies That also happen to be the (collapsing) Empire of The Day and it's upcoming replacement. He's inviting us to view this as a comment on society in general. Just because I don't buy his thesis doesn't mean I object to his right to express it.

I don't understand What this topic had to do with health care or "Losers wanting a handout" I know you're obsessed with this but please, read the topic and attempt understand the point before you bash it because it 'sounds like socialism' to you. Everything not Libertarian sound like socialism to you.


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Posted 7/15/10
I'll misquote and paraphrase Churchill like I did in another thread regarding capitalism. Churchill was talking about ways to run a country and democrary, I invite you to imagine his jowelly face saying about economics and capitalism:


... inefficient, redundant, etc... it's the worst way to do things. Except for all the other ways.

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