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Otaku Aren't Japanese
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47 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 7/16/10

Darkphoenix3450 [link url="/forumtopic-648372/otaku-arent-japanese/?fpid=32469960" title="View quoted


On another note Ooh God I have the same Hair style as papagolfwhiskey avatar.. (this is not good)


Actually with right clothes and a little trim (oh and GLASSES) you could do an awesome Gendou Ikari cosplay.

I'm too fat and short to really pull it off.


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Posted 7/16/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

I think Ethnicity, like race, are flawed concepts with too much baggage from discriminatory practices to be worth whatever mental convenience they offer in neatly grouping others together in your mind.



Actually ethnicity is based on concrete things like ancestry and the culture a person was raised in, rather than something arbitrary like skin color. I wouldn't consider it to be flawed since it's not a social construct and can be objectively identified and classified.
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Posted 7/16/10

Cuddlebuns wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

I think Ethnicity, like race, are flawed concepts with too much baggage from discriminatory practices to be worth whatever mental convenience they offer in neatly grouping others together in your mind.



Actually ethnicity is based on concrete things like ancestry and the culture a person was raised in, rather than something arbitrary like skin color. I wouldn't consider it to be flawed since it's not a social construct and can be objectively identified and classified.


Perhaps but too many use it as a substitute for 'race'... actually it was synomymous with race as recently as the sixties. if you read the text books and histories of the day. you'd find references to 'the French race', 'the English Race', 'The German race' etc.

that's why I'm ... distrustful... of references to ethnicity.



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Posted 7/17/10
Even though it seems like this isn't really on topic anymore... I agree.

I find it humourous when I see people (whether weeaboo or otaku or whatever they want to be called) wearing anime shirts or bags littered with buttons and holding their english-to-japanese dictionaries and pronouncing desu like day-sue. Mostly because I know they think they're Japanese or that they're pretty darn close to it--closer than me for sure!

I think these kids... and adults... who act this way need a reality check. Throw them over into Japan ASAP.
Let them find out how Japanese they are.
And how different Japan is from what they think.
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Posted 7/17/10

Mianhae wrote:

Even though it seems like this isn't really on topic anymore... I agree.

I find it humourous when I see people (whether weeaboo or otaku or whatever they want to be called) wearing anime shirts or bags littered with buttons and holding their english-to-japanese dictionaries and pronouncing desu like day-sue. Mostly because I know they think they're Japanese or that they're pretty darn close to it--closer than me for sure!

I think these kids... and adults... who act this way need a reality check. Throw them over into Japan ASAP.
Let them find out how Japanese they are.
And how different Japan is from what they think.


I like playing at inductive reasoning and a little casual research into Japanese culture in order to figure out various anime tropes.

Ever notice how common it is for an anime character to have an interest or compulsion that they are desperate to hide. How often characters display conflicting personalities. The Cutsey Happy go lucky Loli that's really an evil mastermind or at least cynical old woman is so common it's almost it's own trope. How often characters have hidden multiple personalities or a least a hidden dark side to their protrayed self, or just some big secret that they feel obliged to hide from the other characters to a degree that really costs them later in the show. Or even just how often 'things are not as they seem'. Why is a child bouncing a ball singing a nursery rhyme pretty much a guarentee that the investigator, rescue party or invading army are all doing to die horribly?

Examples of the Above:
The lead of "A certain Scientific Railgun' and her obsession with some cute frog thingy that apparently only little girls liked and that went out of fashion years ago.

The tall quiet 'cool' girl from Azumanga Daioh and her love of cute little animals.

---
The end credits girl in lucky star
Ookami-san has two such characters
and there've been so many 'demon Children' in anime since I started watching it well over a decade ago that I wonder if the Japanese hate/fear their own progeny..

of course I wonder if it's got to do with the concept of 'face'.


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Posted 7/17/10

People allover the world have been observed with this idea in their heads about being cultured because they took up an interest in anime or manga. They tote around all this needless merchandise and speak hollow mispronounced words in Japanese such as the overused 'baka'. Even the Japanese aren't Japanese, since after the Pacific War, they lost their identity to occupation from the United States. How is it that anyone thinks they are a part of some postmodern culture because they have a seemingly childish interest (not that I feel it is) in cartooning not created by them. Mindless consumption and obsessions never cultured anyone. You might learn things, but as for becoming Japanese because you watched anime or read manga, I don't fucking think so


this is an example of covert anti-japanese racism. why don't y'all admit that you are racist against japan and the japanese? why aren't europhiles facing this kinds of racist reaction?
Posted 7/17/10 , edited 7/17/10

shinto-male wrote:


People allover the world have been observed with this idea in their heads about being cultured because they took up an interest in anime or manga. They tote around all this needless merchandise and speak hollow mispronounced words in Japanese such as the overused 'baka'. Even the Japanese aren't Japanese, since after the Pacific War, they lost their identity to occupation from the United States. How is it that anyone thinks they are a part of some postmodern culture because they have a seemingly childish interest (not that I feel it is) in cartooning not created by them. Mindless consumption and obsessions never cultured anyone. You might learn things, but as for becoming Japanese because you watched anime or read manga, I don't fucking think so


this is an example of covert anti-japanese racism. why don't y'all admit that you are racist against japan and the japanese? why aren't europhiles facing this kinds of racist reaction?


There is no racism within my walls, nor will I tolerate it. Japan lost its way, but has given the world so many great things.
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Posted 7/17/10

shinto-male wrote:


People allover the world have been observed with this idea in their heads about being cultured because they took up an interest in anime or manga. They tote around all this needless merchandise and speak hollow mispronounced words in Japanese such as the overused 'baka'. Even the Japanese aren't Japanese, since after the Pacific War, they lost their identity to occupation from the United States. How is it that anyone thinks they are a part of some postmodern culture because they have a seemingly childish interest (not that I feel it is) in cartooning not created by them. Mindless consumption and obsessions never cultured anyone. You might learn things, but as for becoming Japanese because you watched anime or read manga, I don't fucking think so


this is an example of covert anti-japanese racism. why don't y'all admit that you are racist against japan and the japanese? why aren't europhiles facing this kinds of racist reaction?


Are you for real?... I think people who go around speaking french, just because they're drinking red wine are just as dumb. Anyone who appears to believe they're part of any culture by adopting some of it's more obvious superficial behaviours is opening themselves to the same ciriticism. but this is an ANIME forum. Of course it's going to focus on anime fans.

What? are you new?

Crying racism at every percieved insult cheapens it for those who were really victimised.




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Posted 7/17/10
anime fans watch anime NOT because they want to be Japanese where did you get this shit from? the idea that they want to be Japanese is a racist internet stereotypes stop believe crap because somebody posted them on the internet. and why aren't europhiles and fans of Europe treated in this racist manner? why is Japan the only target here?
Posted 7/17/10

shinto-male wrote:

anime fans watch anime NOT because they want to be Japanese where did you get this shit from? the idea that they want to be Japanese is a racist internet stereotypes stop believe crap because somebody posted them on the internet. and why aren't europhiles and fans of Europe treated in this racist manner? why is Japan the only target here?


When did I say anime fans wanted to become Japanese? *bites your troll bait*
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Posted 7/18/10 , edited 7/18/10

Aztecnology wrote:

When did I say anime fans wanted to become Japanese? *bites your troll bait*



This.

How is it that anyone thinks they are a part of some postmodern culture because they have a seemingly childish interest (not that I feel it is) in cartooning not created by them.


And this.

You might learn things, but as for becoming Japanese because you watched anime or read manga, I don't fucking think so!


Posted 7/18/10

Pitchguest wrote:


Aztecnology wrote:

When did I say anime fans wanted to become Japanese? *bites your troll bait*



This.

How is it that anyone thinks they are a part of some postmodern culture because they have a seemingly childish interest (not that I feel it is) in cartooning not created by them.


And this.

You might learn things, but as for becoming Japanese because you watched anime or read manga, I don't fucking think so!




That, of course, didn't refer to EVERYONE.

Sheesh...
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Posted 7/18/10
By the way, a so-called 'weaboo'. Um. The term is used for those who like the Japanese culture more than their own culture and so dubbed 'weaboo'.

My question is...why? And really, weaboo? Wapanese?

When I defend fansubbing and scanlating over the official, I say it's because I want honorifics in my subs (among other things). This is apparently enough to label me a 'weaboo'. Why, because I want to maintain the overall feel and authenticity of the anime/manga? That's just silly. The reason being is that most honorifics cannot be accurately translated, while most official subs either equivocate them utterly or use their closest English equivalent (mister, miss, lord, lady, etc.)

Why is that? The official subbers accuse the fansubbers of embellishing (i.e. adding to) their subs to make it more popular. You can dispute that but surely if it happens in the fansubbing community, shouldn't the same views be held officially? 'Weaboo' is used when you want to maintain the Japanese culture, in this case in the subbing. Well, what's it called when you want to ecquivocate it? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both?

Posted 7/18/10

Pitchguest wrote:

By the way, a so-called 'weaboo'. Um. The term is used for those who like the Japanese culture more than their own culture and so dubbed 'weaboo'.

My question is...why? And really, weaboo? Wapanese?

When I defend fansubbing and scanlating over the official, I say it's because I want honorifics in my subs (among other things). This is apparently enough to label me a 'weaboo'. Why, because I want to maintain the overall feel and authenticity of the anime/manga? That's just silly. The reason being is that most honorifics cannot be accurately translated, while most official subs either equivocate them utterly or use their closest English equivalent (mister, miss, lord, lady, etc.)

Why is that? The official subbers accuse the fansubbers of embellishing (i.e. adding to) their subs to make it more popular. You can dispute that but surely if it happens in the fansubbing community, shouldn't the same views be held officially? 'Weaboo' is used when you want to maintain the Japanese culture, in this case in the subbing. Well, what's it called when you want to ecquivocate it? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both?



The only issue to worry about is maintaining the 'culture' itself. Honorifics are needless formality, if you ask me. No one needs to attach a -san, -domo, -sensie, or any other suffix to the end of my given or family name just to be cool with me. But, I am not 'Japanese' so these things would never really apply to me. I can be no more than a guest in Japan with these ideas, never one of the 'authentic' Japanese.

We can also take the epithet weeaboo and throw that out the window. It will never have the impact of the n-word or anything else.
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Posted 7/18/10
Who brought up the term 'Weabo'? It wasn't Aztechnology.

Regardless. I can't argue for or against the actions of strangers who I don't know at all towards strangers I've 'met' on an internet forum.

what I can say is this:

I'm into Japan for three things:

(1) I like their cartoons. they can cover such a wider spectrum of themes and (when I first started watching) had novel plot points and archetypes.

(2) Pocky.

(3) Occasionally stretching my brain by asking 'how many anime characters can dance on the head of a pin' or some other ultimately irrelevant question. Still, I find it amusing to speculate on what makes those markedly different archetypes and plot points happen. What cultural underpinings lie behind the more common themes and tropes I see.
----

I've learned a few things over time. Enough to be moderately of assistance and enlightment to my sister on her business trip to Japan.

----

I think there are people who take a love of a strange culture and who adopt superficial behaviours from such cultures. Any such who believe they've become the culture they mimic are fooling themselves.

The above applies to Beret wearing, wine sipping non-francophones who great each other with badly pronounced 'Bonjour'. Tea sipping Mock Englishmen, Fake italians... and even non-american wanna be 'gangstas', or 'John Waynes'. Since they are fooling themselves it's hard not to think a little less of them but the 'wannabe' fashion is hardly limited to Japanaphiles and Europhiles. There are people who try to live every day in the star wars, Star trek, and other non-real universes. or as non-real beings. (look for example at the practices attributed to so called furries)

What I think is absolutely moronic is to believe for instant that finding anime inspired japanophiles amusing or contemptable is some sort of strange second hand discrimination against the japanese people themselves. sorry that's just beyond conspiracy theory stupid.

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