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Otaku Aren't Japanese
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50 / F / Toronto
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Posted 7/18/10

Pitchguest wrote:

When I defend fansubbing and scanlating over the official, I say it's because I want honorifics in my subs (among other things). This is apparently enough to label me a 'weaboo'. Why, because I want to maintain the overall feel and authenticity of the anime/manga? That's just silly. The reason being is that most honorifics cannot be accurately translated, while most official subs either equivocate them utterly or use their closest English equivalent (mister, miss, lord, lady, etc.)

Why is that? The official subbers accuse the fansubbers of embellishing (i.e. adding to) their subs to make it more popular. You can dispute that but surely if it happens in the fansubbing community, shouldn't the same views be held officially? 'Weaboo' is used when you want to maintain the Japanese culture, in this case in the subbing. Well, what's it called when you want to ecquivocate it? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both?



I presume there's a thread on that subject were I can explain the concept of localisation and the translator's ethic of being seamless and invisible?


Posted 7/18/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Pitchguest wrote:

When I defend fansubbing and scanlating over the official, I say it's because I want honorifics in my subs (among other things). This is apparently enough to label me a 'weaboo'. Why, because I want to maintain the overall feel and authenticity of the anime/manga? That's just silly. The reason being is that most honorifics cannot be accurately translated, while most official subs either equivocate them utterly or use their closest English equivalent (mister, miss, lord, lady, etc.)

Why is that? The official subbers accuse the fansubbers of embellishing (i.e. adding to) their subs to make it more popular. You can dispute that but surely if it happens in the fansubbing community, shouldn't the same views be held officially? 'Weaboo' is used when you want to maintain the Japanese culture, in this case in the subbing. Well, what's it called when you want to ecquivocate it? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both?



I presume there's a thread on that subject were I can explain the concept of localisation and the translator's ethic of being seamless and invisible?




I feel the dub vs sub debate to be somewhat illogical, really, and it annoys me to no end when people bring it up.
Posted 7/18/10

LosingOrbit wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Pitchguest wrote:

When I defend fansubbing and scanlating over the official, I say it's because I want honorifics in my subs (among other things). This is apparently enough to label me a 'weaboo'. Why, because I want to maintain the overall feel and authenticity of the anime/manga? That's just silly. The reason being is that most honorifics cannot be accurately translated, while most official subs either equivocate them utterly or use their closest English equivalent (mister, miss, lord, lady, etc.)

Why is that? The official subbers accuse the fansubbers of embellishing (i.e. adding to) their subs to make it more popular. You can dispute that but surely if it happens in the fansubbing community, shouldn't the same views be held officially? 'Weaboo' is used when you want to maintain the Japanese culture, in this case in the subbing. Well, what's it called when you want to ecquivocate it? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both?



I presume there's a thread on that subject were I can explain the concept of localisation and the translator's ethic of being seamless and invisible?




I feel the dub vs sub debate to be somewhat illogical, really, and it annoys me to no end when people bring it up.


.. well people always find something to fight about. I download illegal fansubs, I also buy dvd's and stream here. I just want my favorite shows the easiest way I can.
Posted 7/18/10 , edited 7/18/10

Pitchguest wrote:

By the way, a so-called 'weaboo'. Um. The term is used for those who like the Japanese culture more than their own culture and so dubbed 'weaboo'.

My question is...why? And really, weaboo? Wapanese?

When I defend fansubbing and scanlating over the official, I say it's because I want honorifics in my subs (among other things). This is apparently enough to label me a 'weaboo'. Why, because I want to maintain the overall feel and authenticity of the anime/manga? That's just silly. The reason being is that most honorifics cannot be accurately translated, while most official subs either equivocate them utterly or use their closest English equivalent (mister, miss, lord, lady, etc.)

Why is that? The official subbers accuse the fansubbers of embellishing (i.e. adding to) their subs to make it more popular. You can dispute that but surely if it happens in the fansubbing community, shouldn't the same views be held officially? 'Weaboo' is used when you want to maintain the Japanese culture, in this case in the subbing. Well, what's it called when you want to ecquivocate it? Shouldn't the same rules apply to both?

Don't like the term "weaboo"? The how about simply dub them as cult of the "amateurs"?

Seriously, when those fansubbers don't even know the reason why the heavy-usage of honorifics within the Japanese "culture". Their superficial fancy is anything but them being culturally versed in anything Japanese "cultural" related, within the context of sociology.

Let's take yourself for example, I'll bet that you didn't even know that the application of Japanese honorifics is a social process to further segregate the Japanese society. In order to sustain the existing power inequality and imbalance among races, ethnicities, gender roles, and age groups. All the while these social conflicts are underneath an illusion of harmony, through blind loyalty and uncritical confirmation.

So just shut up and watch you damn anime, when you're already dazed and confused due to your own ignorance. Just like most of the anime fans and Japanese people for that matter.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Ever notice how common it is for an anime character to have an interest or compulsion that they are desperate to hide. How often characters display conflicting personalities. The Cutsey Happy go lucky Loli that's really an evil mastermind or at least cynical old woman is so common it's almost it's own trope. How often characters have hidden multiple personalities or a least a hidden dark side to their protrayed self, or just some big secret that they feel obliged to hide from the other characters to a degree that really costs them later in the show. Or even just how often 'things are not as they seem'. Why is a child bouncing a ball singing a nursery rhyme pretty much a guarentee that the investigator, rescue party or invading army are all doing to die horribly?

Examples of the Above:
The lead of "A certain Scientific Railgun' and her obsession with some cute frog thingy that apparently only little girls liked and that went out of fashion years ago.

The tall quiet 'cool' girl from Azumanga Daioh and her love of cute little animals.

---
The end credits girl in lucky star
Ookami-san has two such characters
and there've been so many 'demon Children' in anime since I started watching it well over a decade ago that I wonder if the Japanese hate/fear their own progeny..

of course I wonder if it's got to do with the concept of 'face'.


I think you may find this explanation satisfactory.
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Posted 7/18/10
It helps Dom. it also explains the 'outrageous' characters as well. They are the 'forbidden fruit' of that society.
Posted 7/18/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

It helps Dom. it also explains the 'outrageous' characters as well. They are the 'forbidden fruit' of that society.
Yeah, basically we're looking at Japan as a society that treats self-defeat and self-denial as the social norm for one's self-esteem. That's the only harmonizing effect which puts everyone in Japan on the level of "sameness", not "equality".

And look, relatively high suicide rate as a cultural export, regardless of material richness in Japan.
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Posted 7/21/10
Well, I know what and who I am. I'm an American who just happens to be interested in other non-American cultures. The anime and manga are in the backseat while the culture, history, language, and people are in the front. I'm not trying to change who I am. I'm happy being myself, but that doesn't mean I can't be interested in people that aren't like me or things that are different than what I'm use to. That's the way I see it.

Nothing wrong with appreciating others heritage as long as you can still acknowledge your own.
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Posted 7/21/10

Natsuko88 wrote:

Well, I know what and who I am. I'm an American who just happens to be interested in other non-American cultures. The anime and manga are in the backseat while the culture, history, language, and people are in the front. I'm not trying to change who I am. I'm happy being myself, but that doesn't mean I can't be interested in people that aren't like me or things that are different than what I'm use to. That's the way I see it.

Nothing wrong with appreciating others heritage as long as you can still acknowledge your own.


Nicely said. I agree.


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Posted 7/21/10
Dom - you're awesome. People only see what they think is 'cool' about Japan, and as a result, Japan falls victim to positive stereotyping and is basically the 'land of delusions' for people who are, simply put, delusional.

Natsuko - THANK YOU!
Posted 7/21/10

angrierchick wrote:

Dom - you're awesome. People only see what they think is 'cool' about Japan, and as a result, Japan falls victim to positive stereotyping and is basically the 'land of delusions' for people who are, simply put, delusional.

Natsuko - THANK YOU!
Thanks for the complement.

The mentality you just described is known as confirmation bias in psychology on an individual level. Which tend to blind the individuals from contradicting factual evidences.
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Posted 7/22/10
What is it with this hyphenated culture, I am second generation Scott but I do not go telling that to people or correcting them nor would I put whatever flag they got. You’re born in America you an American if you do not like it move some place go through the narration process. Yet you were born here so up yours. Dom Fortress you’re sharp until you get to this stuff. If you were born in Canada your Canadian like it or not, if you were not born there and do not like it go someplace else. I hope you know China has many other race and languages in it. Chines army keep a low profile in north east china not to piss of the Mongols There not one culture out there that there shit don stink, we got good point and bad ones hopefully we can get the best from all and live the BS behind-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.--------------------- Do I feel bad for the American Indian NO WAY NO HOW, war are fought over land and power, it been that way from the beginning of civilization. We won they lost to bad for them. If you look at Europe from the 1918 until now you will see very different maps same in Africa. Poor me I came from a conquered people them not one that I can think off that not had it but kicked at one time or another. Grow up you come from a crappy back ground fight to change yourself or be a victim all your miserable life. If you think people treat you differently because of ethnicity look hard at yourself and stop judge other through what you have been told or experience. Because you set this expectation you will prove yourself right of rejections that what will happen.
Posted 7/22/10

tarakelly wrote:

What is it with this hyphenated culture, I am second generation Scott but I do not go telling that to people or correcting them nor would I put whatever flag they got. You’re born in America you an American if you do not like it move some place go through the narration process. Yet you were born here so up yours. Dom Fortress you’re sharp until you get to this stuff. If you were born in Canada your Canadian like it or not, if you were not born there and do not like it go someplace else. I hope you know China has many other race and languages in it. Chines army keep a low profile in north east china not to piss of the Mongols There not one culture out there that there shit don stink, we got good point and bad ones hopefully we can get the best from all and live the BS behind-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.--------------------- Do I feel bad for the American Indian NO WAY NO HOW, war are fought over land and power, it been that way from the beginning of civilization. We won they lost to bad for them. If you look at Europe from the 1918 until now you will see very different maps same in Africa. Poor me I came from a conquered people them not one that I can think off that not had it but kicked at one time or another. Grow up you come from a crappy back ground fight to change yourself or be a victim all your miserable life. If you think people treat you differently because of ethnicity look hard at yourself and stop judge other through what you have been told or experience. Because you set this expectation you will prove yourself right of rejections that what will happen.
Stupid, when in Canada we value "freedom of expression" and "freedom of thought". Whereas you OTOH don't even know that biologically speaking there's no race difference within the human specie as a whole, it's all genetic vs arbitrary ideology. While sociologically speaking culture is an artificial creation, and the ability to speak languages is still a part of human nature, but the language system itself needs to be socialized.

So learn to understand what's natural vs unnatural within the context of science, then you'll know when you're actually abusing your "freedom of speech" because of your stupidity.
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Posted 7/22/10

DomFortress wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

What is it with this hyphenated culture, I am second generation Scott but I do not go telling that to people or correcting them nor would I put whatever flag they got. You’re born in America you an American if you do not like it move some place go through the narration process. Yet you were born here so up yours. Dom Fortress you’re sharp until you get to this stuff. If you were born in Canada your Canadian like it or not, if you were not born there and do not like it go someplace else. I hope you know China has many other race and languages in it. Chines army keep a low profile in north east china not to piss of the Mongols There not one culture out there that there shit don stink, we got good point and bad ones hopefully we can get the best from all and live the BS behind-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.--------------------- Do I feel bad for the American Indian NO WAY NO HOW, war are fought over land and power, it been that way from the beginning of civilization. We won they lost to bad for them. If you look at Europe from the 1918 until now you will see very different maps same in Africa. Poor me I came from a conquered people them not one that I can think off that not had it but kicked at one time or another. Grow up you come from a crappy back ground fight to change yourself or be a victim all your miserable life. If you think people treat you differently because of ethnicity look hard at yourself and stop judge other through what you have been told or experience. Because you set this expectation you will prove yourself right of rejections that what will happen.
Stupid, when in Canada we value "freedom of expression" and "freedom of thought". Whereas you OTOH don't even know that biologically speaking there's no race difference within the human specie as a whole, it's all genetic vs arbitrary ideology. While sociologically speaking culture is an artificial creation, and the ability to speak languages is still a part of human nature, but the language system itself needs to be socialized.

So learn to understand what's natural vs unnatural within the context of science, then you'll know when you're actually abusing your "freedom of speech" because of your stupidity.


I think he knows that the race is "Human" and the species is "Homo Sapiens Sapiens", that's just everyday basic knowledge, everyone knows that.

But he is also right, if you are born in Canada you are Canadian, if you are born in Europe your European, China, Chinese, ect, but were still all "Human", that hasn't changed. We are still all members of the Genus "Homo" whether your Black, White, Brown, or Green.
Posted 7/22/10

Allhailodin wrote:



I think he knows that the race is "Human" and the species is "Homo Sapiens Sapiens", that's just everyday basic knowledge, everyone knows that.

But he is also right, if you are born in Canada you are Canadian, if you are born in Europe your European, China, Chinese, ect, but were still all "Human", that hasn't changed. We are still all members of the Genus "Homo" whether your Black, White, Brown, or Green.
However, what does that mean to the different individual personality? As naturally observable between different members of the same specie based on independent behaviors and personal preference, when nurture is our human nature.

It's the fact of human individuality based on interpersonal differences, that national and political ideologies, nor ethnic ideology could ever change. Yet more often than ever, I've seen in-group relationship based on loyalty and conformation to the group norm violates individual personal conviction, aka the Lucifer Effect.

Furthermore, when figures of authority abused their power and influence over the society for personal gain, their actions can cause harmful effects on the quality of life for those who are at the bottom of the society as a whole.
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Posted 7/22/10 , edited 7/22/10

DomFortress wrote:

However, what does that mean to the different individual personality? As naturally observable between different members of the same specie based on independent behaviors and personal preference, when nurture is our human nature.


Caring / Nurture my ass

When mothers are dumping their newborns in trash cans

http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2010/07/21/4725906-trial-begins-in-case-of-calif-baby-found-in-trash
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/baby.garbage.can.2.1120201.html
http://www.sptimes.net/2002/08/06/TampaBay/Baby_found_in_trash_b.shtml
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcAjeAuXbpo



It's the fact of human individuality based on interpersonal differences, that national and political ideologies, nor ethnic ideology could ever change. Yet more often than ever, I've seen in-group relationship based on loyalty and conformation to the group norm violates individual personal conviction, aka the Lucifer Effect.


I'm too lazy to watch that.


Furthermore, when figures of authority abused their power and influence over the society for personal gain, their actions can cause harmful effects on the quality of life for those who are at the bottom of the society as a whole.


Well no shit, that's nothing new. Only been happening for the last 10,000 years lol.
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