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Skewered on a Wire Hanger
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Posted 7/21/10 , edited 7/21/10
Originally I was going to write out an extensive post here, but I figured it would be too long for people to read. So, instead I have it in video format. Here are the links on youtube:

Part One:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq6db-NF2FY

Part Two:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goCef4vpKjI

Basically what they say is that 5,000 to 10,000 women died every year in botched abortion attempts before Roe v. Wade and that women do not consider legality when they consider whether or not to obtain an abortion. From this they conclude that if we outlaw abortion we’ll have at least 5,000 women dying every year but we won’t have prevented any abortions from being conducted.

Using pro-life (Bernard Nathanson,), pro-choice (Christopher Tietze, Stanly Henshaw) and neutral (Center for Disease Control, Fact Checker, The American Medical Association) sources among others I prove that:

A) The opening statistic is a known falsehood from the 1930s.
B) The back alley butcher shops are a historical myth.
C) Statistically, legal abortions are not really safer than illegal abortions
D) Legality does play a major role in whether or not a woman decides to obtain an abortion
E) That legalizing abortion makes abortions more frequent,
F) And that this increased number of abortions being obtained also causes a net increase in the number of abortion related deaths ignoring or including the zygotes, fetuses, and embryos.


So what are your thoughts?
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47 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 7/21/10
TL ; DNR

but seriously dude, if you have a point to make, trot it out. Don't make me play scavenger hunt for it. I won't.
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25 / F / Georgia
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Posted 7/21/10 , edited 7/21/10
Why don't you write a summary of what you want to discuss, seems easier.
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Posted 7/21/10 , edited 7/21/10

mystic17 wrote:

Why don't you write a summary of what you want to discuss, seems easier.


EDIT: Took your advice


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

TL ; DNR

but seriously dude, if you have a point to make, trot it out. Don't make me play scavenger hunt for it. I won't.


Well, when I started to create this thread I actually did that, but the shortest I can get the message without neglecting crucial content is about 6-7 pages. If you go back and look at some of the other threads I have created in the past, people criticized me non-stop for how lengthy my posts are.

In any case, you don't have to play scavenger hunt. I told you exactly where to find this easter egg. Just click the link and listen. Much easier than reading a seven page essay.
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Posted 7/21/10
Oh I thought that was what the topic is about, since the wire hanger made me think of those abortion stories automatically. As for my opinion on the topic, I don't know how to put my words together right now. I have to think on this a little more so I'll know what right stuff to say. I'll edit my comment later.
Posted 7/21/10 , edited 7/22/10
Hey, if you want children to be born into this world without sufficient support network, then yours first.

I could've been a father two years ago, but my girlfriend was still in her final year of nursing school back then, while I OTOH couldn't financially support a family with whatever I was earning. Therefore if you think your unrealistic moral is more important than creating a sustainable social network for childrearing, then feel free to let it rip. Otherwise don't think it's so easy for the men during pregnancy, when the women have every right to choose whatever they want to do with their own bodies, that includes their reproductive function.

In other words, stop making my girlfriend feeling guilty about something that's obviously not her fault. When she had her abortion done in complete secrecy, because of unnecessary societal oppression coming from the likes of you.

EDIT: As an afterthought, while Canada doesn't have any regulation on abortion, it also boasts the lowest maternal mortality rate for early abortion. Thanks to solely the "women exercise their sensible moral judgment and doctors exercise their professional medical judgment, and that's all that's needed to regulate the process."

In other words, either the women in US are morally corrupted, or the doctors in the US are professionally bankrupted, or it could be both. But the fact still remains that "A more tolerant attitude towards sexuality, contraception, and abortion would undoubtedly serve to reduce America's unplanned pregnancy and abortion rates, and further improve the safety of abortion."
Posted 7/21/10
There's a big dumpster out behind a Pizza Hut. Let's go throw our kids in it after we gouge them out of their mothers' wombs.

Some people shouldn't even be allowed to fuck.
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Posted 7/22/10

Allhailodin wrote:


Aztecnology wrote:

There's a big dumpster out behind a Pizza Hut. Let's go throw our kids in it after we gouge them out of their mothers' wombs.

Some people shouldn't even be allowed to fuck.


You mean like this ?

http://mynation.wordpress.com/2007/08/14/one-day-old-baby-found-in-garbage-bin-couple-comes-forward-to-adopt/
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/21/ap/national/main6700964.shtml
http://community.babycenter.com/post/a22812259/14_month_old_baby_found_in_middle_of_the_road_at_night
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/37170009.html
http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/24000294/detail.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/alief/news/5532910.html
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/baby.garbage.can.2.1120201.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060307/news_1m7bulatao.html
http://www.sptimes.net/2002/08/06/TampaBay/Baby_found_in_trash_b.shtml


All women are worthless trash whores. This is the kind of thing trash whores do.

I think that any mother who abandons her child for dead should be hunted like a pack of wild dogs chasing a rabbit, and when she's caught, she should be sentenced to death by beheading. Life in prison isn't good enough. Worthless trash like that needs to be killed in a manner suitable for it.


All women? Now you probably don't mean all women as you yourself know a few who aren't. But yeah women who do this should be thrown to the gutter to suffer.
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Posted 7/22/10
My thoughts are ............................................


If these people want to abort their child, then they are unfit for parenting and super horny. Conception is harder than you think. Not to mention they are uneducated or born stupid.

Now do you really want to force them to keep their children and have them grow up the same way???
What kind of people do you want to enter society and populate the world.

We want to keep them out of the gene pool.
















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Posted 7/22/10

Daniel9878 wrote:

My thoughts are ............................................


If these people want to abort their child, then they are unfit for parenting and super horny. Conception is harder than you think. Not to mention they are uneducated or born stupid.

Now do you really want to force them to keep their children and have them grow up the same way???
What kind of people do you want to enter society and populate the world.

We want to keep them out of the gene pool.



Because sexual activity of any kind is obviously for procreation only, and we're totally living in the Victorian era!
Posted 7/22/10

angrierchick wrote:


Daniel9878 wrote:

My thoughts are ............................................


If these people want to abort their child, then they are unfit for parenting and super horny. Conception is harder than you think. Not to mention they are uneducated or born stupid.

Now do you really want to force them to keep their children and have them grow up the same way???
What kind of people do you want to enter society and populate the world.

We want to keep them out of the gene pool.



Because sexual activity of any kind is obviously for procreation only, and we're totally living in the Victorian era!


that's why people need to wear condoms and stop selling themselves short, in case I am only for abortion in rape and molestation cases
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Posted 7/22/10 , edited 7/22/10

DomFortress wrote: In other words, stop making my girlfriend feeling guilty about something that's obviously not her fault.


I was not trying to make anybody feel bad about anything. In this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHPa1JkGfME

I argue that there is absolutely nothing -morally- wrong with an abortion in my opinion but that it depends on your personal perspective.

But in what way is it not her fault that she obtained an abortion? Unless she was forced to do so, responsibility for the action rests on her shoulders regardless of whether it was right or wrong.

In any case you cannot justify terminating life in some hope to prevent somebody from living without a

sufficient support network
. That was the argument that Margret Sanger used to justify forcibly cutting the fallopian tubes of black women in America. That was the argument that the anti-Semites in 20th century Europe used to justify exterminating the Jews, specifically in “The Life Unworthy of Life,” which was one of the most widely proliferated pieces of Nazi propaganda during the holocaust. I discuss this in my video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljwqEEORev4

As to this comment:

women have every right to choose whatever they want to do with their own bodies, that includes their reproductive function.


It’s not her body as I prove with the perfect, mathematical certainty of deductive logic and biological science here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZxMYLxS0p8

As far as creating a social network for future children, I actually -do- that. I've yet to participate in any sort of pro-life activity. I just talk. But I have gone on a mission trip and contributed to multiple charity walks. Until recently, when I have no money and stopped attending church, I have tithed regularly ten percent of my paycheck to church organizations which are responsible for national and internationla social health programs and charities. Not that any of this is very impressive, but please don't automatically assume I'm an insincere hypocrite. My ultimate goal is to make the world a better place, a place worth fighting for.

P.S:
I know abortion is hard on a man. By the way, did you know ".45," by Shinedown was about that? Totally just realized that yesterday.

zombehs wrote:
But yeah women who do this should be thrown to the gutter to suffer.


Women who obtain abortions do so in large part because they are literally pressured and essentially bribed to do so during a time period in which their judgment is impaired by fear and uncertainty. To put that into perspective, I had a friend who is now in jail for statutory rape because he had sex with a woman while she was on the rebound and in a state of depression because her previous boyfriend had just dumped her. I also saw an episode of Doctor Phil in which a 16 year old boy is being charged with statutory rape because he had sex with a girl who was upset over being bullied, and I saw a news headline about two years ago in which a third guy was hit with the same charge for having sex with a girl while she was having a panic attack.

So it’s rape if you have sex with a girl who’s depressed, upset, or panicked from something silly like a high school boyfriend or cyber bullies but if you pressure her into obtaining an abortion while she’s understandably depressed, upset, or panicked because she’s been impregnated and her whole life is likely to change for at least the rest of the year…now that’s just fine.

It’s the victimizers, not the victims we should blame. In their shoes, plenty of people (male or female,) would make the same decision. That’s why thousands a prolife group recently organized a march of 400,000 women carrying “I regret my abortion,” signs on D.C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONT9vAP90Ew

Give them a break. Even Norma Mccorvey lives in a state of perpetual guilt.


Daniel9878 wrote:

My thoughts are ............................................


If these people want to abort their child, then they are unfit for parenting and super horny. Conception is harder than you think. Not to mention they are uneducated or born stupid.

Now do you really want to force them to keep their children and have them grow up the same way???
What kind of people do you want to enter society and populate the world.

We want to keep them out of the gene pool.


Then instead of aborting the children let's sterilize the women and save time and resources.


angrierchick wrote:

Because sexual activity of any kind is obviously for procreation only, and we're totally living in the Victorian era!


I know you are being sarcastic, but since that is a real position that people actually take I feel obliged to note that this is one of the two major dispositions towards sex that I consider widespread but also unhealthy, dangerous, and really just general negative. The other one is this idea proliferated by Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood: Sex is a biological process that we should pursue with a degradingly lascivious charge at every opportunity simply for the meaningless, animalistic pleasure we happen to derive from it.

As an alternative to the dogmatic and profane approaches usually seen in the liberal vs. conservative debate I suggest a separate disposition. I tend to treat sex like a romantic element in each of our own individual cognitive, genetic, and even spiritual identities and a shared wonder in the realm human experience. In this way sex is both part of who we are as unique individuals and as members of the human race. As such, it is sacred and should neither be restricted nor engaged in with an uninhibited dash for the finish line.



CecilTheDarkKnight_234 wrote:

that's why people need to wear condoms and stop selling themselves short, in case I am only for abortion in rape and molestation cases


Me too.


Did I get everyone?
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Posted 7/22/10
All of you here ragging on women who get abortions and saying that they're trash and should suffer need to get a reality check. Unplanned pregnancy can happen to anyone, and when it happens to you (or your partner), any sense of calm and all your pro-life rationale just flies out the window. These women getting abortions for the most part are panicked and scared and have no idea what to do. They're in school, they have families and friends that won't accept it because they're too young or unmarried, they don't have the money to care for a child, whatever the reason, having a baby changes your whole life, and sometimes abortion really is just the best option.
Posted 7/22/10

SeraphAlford wrote:


DomFortress wrote: In other words, stop making my girlfriend feeling guilty about something that's obviously not her fault.


I was not trying to make anybody feel bad about anything. In this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHPa1JkGfME

I argue that there is absolutely nothing -morally- wrong with an abortion in my opinion but that it depends on your personal perspective.

But in what way is it not her fault that she obtained an abortion? Unless she was forced to do so, responsibility for the action rests on her shoulders regardless of whether it was right or wrong.

In any case you cannot justify terminating life in some hope to prevent somebody from living without a

sufficient support network
. That was the argument that Margret Sanger used to justify forcibly cutting the fallopian tubes of black women in America. That was the argument that the anti-Semites in 20th century Europe used to justify exterminating the Jews, specifically in “The Life Unworthy of Life,” which was one of the most widely proliferated pieces of Nazi propaganda during the holocaust. I discuss this in my video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljwqEEORev4

As to this comment:

women have every right to choose whatever they want to do with their own bodies, that includes their reproductive function.


It’s not her body as I prove with the perfect, mathematical certainty of deductive logic and biological science here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZxMYLxS0p8

As far as creating a social network for future children, I actually -do- that. I've yet to participate in any sort of pro-life activity. I just talk. But I have gone on a mission trip and contributed to multiple charity walks. Until recently, when I have no money and stopped attending church, I have tithed regularly ten percent of my paycheck to church organizations which are responsible for national and internationla social health programs and charities. Not that any of this is very impressive, but please don't automatically assume I'm an insincere hypocrite. My ultimate goal is to make the world a better place, a place worth fighting for.

P.S:
I know abortion is hard on a man. By the way, did you know ".45," by Shinedown was about that? Totally just realized that yesterday.

Did I get everyone?
If there's no moral obligation, then is it economically beneficial not to have an abortion? When childrearing takes up resources, never generates it. Child labor notwithstanding.

And when you talk about perspectives, don't forget that while you'll never experience abortion such as you are a male, there has been history of memory manipulation within organized religion. Therefore I'm withholding judgment on the "thousands a pro-life group recently organized a march of 400,000 women carrying 'I regret my abortion,' signs on D.C." As a sociologist in training, I know all too well the societal oppression onto women with in-group loyalty as a form of cohesion force.

She wouldn't needed an abortion if she didn't get unplanned pregnancy with my sperm, therefore your irrational "perfect" plan cannot debunk my reality. No matter how cleaver you believe you are, the probability that women get pregnant without men's sperm is 0%.

You think material resources are the only "social support" that children need? You charity types are just nervous around children, that's why you're the "provider" not the "caregiver". All the while you're still hiding your incompetence with the typical "fascism"card, how boring and sociologically clueless of you.

Also, I wasn't even aware of my girlfriend's abortion until 2 years ago. So I've no idea whatever that you meant by "abortion is hard on a man" crap. When I personally took that fact well with ease.

Finally, you didn't touch any of my "afterthought".
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Posted 7/23/10

angrierchick wrote:

Because sexual activity of any kind is obviously for procreation only, and we're totally living in the Victorian era!


Sexual activity is for procreation; it's what it ultimately exists for. Pregnancy is a risk of any such activity between a man and a woman. This isn't about Victorian attitudes, it's biological fact.
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